Waterford University discussion

BBM77

smellyoldboot wrote: »

WIT is dead. As Waterford itself is dying. Unless they pull the plug on this absolute shambles of an arranged marriage.

Just wondering. The best way to kill the merger would be local politicians doing their job. But seeing as they are too useless or spineless to speak against it. What would be the best way to kill the merger?

Harry Palmr

914 wrote: »

The Sunday Times Good University Guide has named WIT as the Institute of Technology of the Year 2021

Tallest dwarf! :pac:

smellyoldboot

BBM77 wrote: »

Just wondering. The best way to kill the merger would be local politicians doing their job. But seeing as they are too useless or spineless to speak against it. What would be the best way to kill the merger?

A big part of the problem seems to most local politicians whether they are elected to local or national level don't seem to be educated enough to see beyond the word "university" and see how damaging this merger and downgrade will be to the reputation of WIT and the status of Waterford.

Johnboy1951

914 wrote: »

The Sunday Times Good University Guide has named WIT as the Institute of Technology of the Year 2021

ST is behind a paywall but here is some info on rankings

https://www.joe.ie/news/646760-646760

In general, ITs perform particularly well in the assessment of the quality of collaborative learning within each institution, accounting for the six highest scores, while universities occupy five of the bottom six places when ranked on this measure.

In the wider Sunday Times third-level ranking, Waterford is ranked seventh in Ireland and is the top IT.

vriesmays

How can it be the best IT for next year?

imacman

WIT is Institue of the year and ranked 8th of the 19th universities and ITs in Ireland.IT Carlow who have been blowing their own trumpet for years now finish 19th and bottom of the rankings for the second year in a row

JimWinters

imacman wrote: »

WIT is Institue of the year and ranked 8th of the 19th universities and ITs in Ireland.IT Carlow who have been blowing their own trumpet for years now finish 19th and bottom of the rankings for the second year in a row

And yet the TU will be a merger of equals where the other mergers had a clear lead institute.

I remember talking to David Cullinane about the merger shortly after the last election was announced. I was surprised by his ignorance on a number of areas including access to funding, the cost of merging and other areas.

He said the TU is “the only show in town” and that it would be good for WIT and Waterford but couldn’t give me one reason why the TU would be better than WIT remaining as it is!

smellyoldboot

JimWinters wrote: »

And yet the TU will be a merger of equals where the other mergers had a clear lead institute.

I remember talking to David Cullinane about the merger shortly after the last election was announced. I was surprised by his ignorance on a number of areas including access to funding, the cost of merging and other areas.

He said the TU is “the only show in town” and that it would be good for WIT and Waterford but couldn’t give me one reason why the TU would be better than WIT remaining as it is!

That is kinda what I was leaning to, but didn't want toflat out call him out. Who should be the main proponent of opposition to this destruction of WIT given the way he topped the poll here and as leader of the biggest opposition party either a) Doesn't seem smart enough to see beyond the "university =good" spiel or b) He can't step away from what seems like a personal disagreement with Willie Donnelly and speak up against something that will be incredibly damaging to not just Waterford but the entire region.

While it might seem like a great idea at the time, a mini-campus of a diluted "Technical University" isn't going to do Kilkenny or Wexford any favours if it comes to pass either.

azimuth17

Invara and others have posted many times that WIT and IT Carlow is not a merger of equals whatever Carlow says. The financial relativities between the institutions, as has been pointed out, show WIT much bigger in undergrad, research and doctoral education than Carlow. These are the metrics, built up over the years, which should decide, but Carlow has and has had for past ten years, more political wind than WIT. Fine Gael have been a disaster for Waterford. They know HQ should be in Waterford, but are playing politics to their (much larger) party membership in Carlow/Kk and Wexford than Waterford. I don't envy John Cummins if this goes wrong.

David Cullinane knows the situation very well IMHO but will not rock the party boat with and SF TD in Wexford and in Carlow KK. If and when WIT is f****d over in this awful merger, we will hear from him and from Mary Butler (party animals both) that "they did their best"!

imacman

The merger is going ahead, there is no going back on that much as we would like it .What we need now is an independent president coming into from outside to lead it who will recognise WIT as the lead institute . But if Patricia Mulcahy ITCarlow president gets it we may as well forget about it in Waterford as she has barely hides her contempt when dealing with WIT staff. Problem is she has political backing and one of the few female presidents in the sector which will be a politically correct reason to give it to her.

vriesmays

Carlow IT isn't surrounded by welfare estates.

Dum_Dum

vriesmays wrote: »

Carlow IT isn't surrounded by welfare estates.

And?


Town and gown never mix - anywhere.

Deiseen

Dum_Dum wrote: »

And?


Town and gown never mix - anywhere.

Ignore that troll please.

smellyoldboot

vriesmays wrote: »

Carlow IT isn't surrounded by welfare estates.

Carlow IT isn't surrounded by much in fairness. Cow**** and silage don't exactly scream upper echelon higher education.

Dunmoreroader

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40074572.html
Please Simon, may we have some........... more?

Harry Palmr

There you go.

https://t.co/DPQv06sRcz?amp=1

invara

It is very clear in the last series of funding (July stimulus and Budget spending) announcements the effort to bolster ITCarlow, throttle down WIT. These funding announcements also make it very clear that the whole TU process is a project to recreate the RTC/IoT binary divide rather than produce a real university in our region.

Waterford stakeholders also need to know that WIT management are (in my personal view) now back in the situation they were in 2014/5, where they are getting no support from our own Government TDs who are forcing this reduction in services/rationalisation.

In the coming months I think the Boland process will go nowhere or will comes apart. The real questions of HQ, capital resourcing on a par with other regions, new disciplines (medicine and teaching for example), university rather than IoT/TU research and teaching funding, new contracts…. None of these can be addressed without our Government TDs working for WIT and the Waterford-city region- pounding tables in Dublin.

Very bravely, particularly against the backdrop of what happened to previous WIT management who defied Government wishes, in 2014/5 WIT management stood up, alone, against Department/HEA pressure. At the time, much of the political bandwidth of the city has been absorbed by the 24/7 cardiac issue. I wonder will it be different this time- or, will the commercial and local political interests in the city and region continue to stand aside as WIT gets cut down to size.

imacman

invara wrote: »

It is very clear in the last series of funding (July stimulus and Budget spending) announcements the effort to bolster ITCarlow, throttle down WIT. These funding announcements also make it very clear that the whole TU process is a project to recreate the RTC/IoT binary divide rather than produce a real university in our region.

Waterford stakeholders also need to know that WIT management are (in my personal view) now back in the situation they were in 2014/5, where they are getting no support from our own Government TDs who are forcing this reduction in services/rationalisation.

In the coming months I think the Boland process will go nowhere or will comes apart. The real questions of HQ, capital resourcing on a par with other regions, new disciplines (medicine and teaching for example), university rather than IoT/TU research and teaching funding, new contracts…. None of these can be addressed without our Government TDs working for WIT and the Waterford-city region- pounding tables in Dublin.

Very bravely, particularly against the backdrop of what happened to previous WIT management who defied Government wishes, in 2014/5 WIT management stood up, alone, against Department/HEA pressure. At the time, much of the political bandwidth of the city has been absorbed by the 24/7 cardiac issue. I wonder will it be different this time- or, will the commercial and local political interests in the city and region continue to stand aside as WIT gets cut down to size.

I cant see any appetite from any of local politicians including David Cullinane to disrupt the merger process .If there was no resistance up to now with all that has gone on they are not going to start rallying now.

As has been said many times our politicians and local vested interests are only interested in the university name over the door. They are going to get that but it will never be seen as a real university and in fact may be a less effective organization that WIT is today as the inevitable damage of the forced bitter merger sets in.

Dum_Dum

Regard Government as hostile; and only 4 months in - so plenty more to come.

Dum_Dum

Any updates on this?


Have they stiffed us yet or is that still something to look forward to?

invara

Dum_Dum wrote: »

Any updates on this?


Have they stiffed us yet or is that still something to look forward to?

It was mentioned in the Dáil today...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8D6WEJQGjc

The video speaks for itself.

JimWinters

invara wrote: »

It was mentioned in the Dáil today...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8D6WEJQGjc

The video speaks for itself.

Thanks for sharing! It’s great to hear someone finally speaking up on the issue, we’ll done Matt Shanahan! It sounds as though he was well prepared for it too...

It would be great to hear David Cullinane and our TDs who are in government speak up on it too.

I don’t see any way this won’t be a disaster, for both WIT and ITC. At some point there will be a rationalisation of services (payroll, HR, IT etc) and courses across the two institutes and we could see whole departments, maybe even schools, disappear from Waterford. Another potential loss of well paid jobs in the city...

friendlyfun

I hate any sort of connection with IT Carlow. I just find it completely bizarre. Carlow doesn't even border Waterford and Waterford is a city. It's a downgrading in many ways I think. It feels like getting a participation medal in race even though you came last. I'm proud to be from Waterford and won't forget that there have been plans for a university in Waterford since the early 1940s.

When you see the North Quays getting the go ahead it's even more reason to support a stand alone University in Waterford considering how many jobs it will attract to Waterford. Wtf is Carlow town to Waterford City? Yet it could potentially take away department offices from WIT.

Dunmoreroader

invara wrote: »

It was mentioned in the Dáil today...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8D6WEJQGjc

The video speaks for itself.

The Taoiseach didn't answer Deputy Shanahan's question as to why we had to put up with a Uni proposed to be spread around the region compared to the consolidations of UCD and TUD. Waffled on about how great the IT's are.

Johnboy1951

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

The Taoiseach didn't answer Deputy Shanahan's question as to why we had to put up with a Uni proposed to be spread around the region compared to the consolidations of UCD and TUD. Waffled on about how great the IT's are.

I have oft wondered why when given the opportunity such questions are within a long ramble, providing the opportunity for the pertinent question to be avoided.

I would dearly like to see someone stand up and ask the question, and promptly sit down.

I wonder how that might be received by the likes of M. Martin ....... would there be shock or would we just hear the usual waffle as an answer?

imacman

JimWinters wrote: »

Thanks for sharing! It’s great to hear someone finally speaking up on the issue, we’ll done Matt Shanahan! It sounds as though he was well prepared for it too...

It would be great to hear David Cullinane and our TDs who are in government speak up on it too.

I don’t see any way this won’t be a disaster, for both WIT and ITC. At some point there will be a rationalisation of services (payroll, HR, IT etc) and courses across the two institutes and we could see whole departments, maybe even schools, disappear from Waterford. Another potential loss of well paid jobs in the city...

Disaster or not its happening and there is no stopping it . I think we will look back on time in the future as another humiliation of Waterford , our politicians and vested interests selling out WIT for a university name over the door. Nevermind the fact its a fake yellow pack university - university in name only UINO

Dum_Dum

invara wrote: »

It was mentioned in the Dáil today...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8D6WEJQGjc

The video speaks for itself.

Waffle and evasion. Makes for miserable listening. Only Shanahan fighting our corner. Seems Cullinane is signed up to this BS too.

Harry Palmr

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I have oft wondered why when given the opportunity such questions are within a long ramble, providing the opportunity for the pertinent question to be avoided.

I would dearly like to see someone stand up and ask the question, and promptly sit down.

I wonder how that might be received by the likes of M. Martin ....... would there be shock or would we just hear the usual waffle as an answer?

THIS THIS THIS! There an art to a zinger of a question, one that cannot be "not answered" without looking like a knave but so often the question is unfocused and leaves easy ways out of addressing the issue.

That said I understand why Shanahan went on at some length, to fill in the trough of ignorance that will be the rest of the country's TD's who probably haven't a notion about the state of the WIT and it's forced marriage.

Johnboy1951

Harry Palmr wrote: »

THIS THIS THIS! There an art to a zinger of a question, one that cannot be "not answered" without looking like a knave but so often the question is unfocused and leaves easy ways out of addressing the issue.

That said I understand why Shanahan went on at some length, to fill in the trough of ignorance that will be the rest of the country's TD's who probably haven't a notion about the state of the WIT and it's forced marriage.

My thought on that is that as this is not the forum which will require a vote to be taken, there is no need (or real benefit) in providing all that background info to those empty seats.
That kind of info is easily diseminated in another manner.
Heck a flyer to each representative would get as much (and more?) attention!

I do not expect to see what I described to happen.

Harry Palmr

I'd say a circular would be deleted in a split second. At least if they are sat watching on Zoom they heard it while playing Pokemon