M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573990#Comment_119573990

No point in wasting money on a rail line that will not be used

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574054#Comment_119574054

I'm not sure which rail upgrades are proposed, but I think they may have ruled out direct-line to Limerick from Charleville. I think it's upgrades of the existing rail line that's proposed now. So twin-tracking the Limerick-Limerick Jn, through-running at Limerick Jn etc. That'll be used alright.

marno21

IMO money spent on the Cork-Limerick interurban isn’t going to attract many new patrons. The most offputting elements of going from Cork to Limerick by rail are getting to/from Kent and Colbert station at either end. Improving that side of things would have major benefits.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574823#Comment_119574823

Even if you sorted those issues you have the problem with frequency of schedule. Neither has the demand between them to allow the frequency of service to attract enough commuters

KrisW1001

As far as I can tell, the improvements to the rail line are a double-tracking from Limerick Junction to Colbert Station and, as part of that, some advance works that will make the eventual electrification of this stretch cheaper to achieve later. This will allow more trains per day, and a faster journey times between the two endpoints. The biggest problem with Cork-Limerick by rail is that it is so slow: you have to change at Limerick Junction and then the last section is much, much slower.

Colbert station is pretty centrally located in Limerick - it’s less than 10 minutes by foot from the station to the commercial centre of the city. Cork Kent access has improved greatly now that an entrance has been opened on Horgan’s Quay, but it’s still a long way from the commercial centre (about 20 minutes’s walk). At least now with the extra space to the south there’s a chance of having a couple of onward city-service buses waiting for each train arrival.

The current rail link between Cork and Limerick is a deterrent to travelling by rail, even with the N20 being such a poor option - these works will make it attractive for city-to-city travel. But I think that improving the railway isn’t really about Cork-Limerick journeys (any more than improving N20 is about journeys starting in one city and ending in the other). The real gain from this rail work will be to allow for more sustainable housing development to the south east of Limerick city (which in turn will reduce commuter load on the forthcoming N24). This will be one of five planned commuter-rail corridors in Limerick (the other four are the Ennis line including a new branch to Shannon Airport; services as far as Castleconnel on the current Birdhill line; and new-build lines to Mungret and Adare).

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578139#Comment_119578139

There is only one issue [email protected]@king very few works in Limerick city center. You have a few pound & charity shops as well as the present boom.in coffee shops After that it's the solicitors , auctioneers and accountancy firms etc most of them work from home 3 days a week on average.

If you miss you train from Castleconnell you be in Limerick walking before the net one and Sixmilebridge would be similar. Adare dose not have the population to sustain a train service and neither dse Mungeret

hans aus dtschl

We're slightly off-topic here, but good conversation.

I think regardless what happens with the M20 Limerick-Limerick Jn needs to be upgraded, as does through-running at Limerick Jn. M20 is needed too, but for slightly different reasons.

Kent isn't every endpoint in Cork. I'd use the Cork Commuter line to get to Limerick, for instance. And you could have future Luas users getting the train to Limerick. But Limerick Jn is definitely a bottleneck.

But Limerick's endpoints are a bit of a problem alright though. I have walked to Dooradoyle because it was easier than public transport!

KrisW1001

I don’t recall saying that the existing services were adequate. To be clear now: They’re not. That’s why we need improvements.

I believe the M20 should be built because N20 is inadequate for the needs of the people who would use it. I also think rail investment is needed around our cities because the current half-arsed services are inadequate for the needs of the people who would use them.

I don’t understand the thinking that says “we need better roads” (which is usually true) and then adds “we don’t need better rail”. Every time we put proper money into rail in this country, it has paid off. The problem is the same kind of penny-pinching we see in roads: doing half a job to save a quarter of the cost. To fix our housing problems, we need to fix our transport problems too, because our poor transport infrastructure is a major barrier to people being able to afford to live somewhere where they can get to and from a paying job. That means investing in roads, but also in cycling, bus and rail.

A lot of our problems with transport have been down to pitching rail agains road, or public-transport against private cars. That’s a stupid position, and even if you only want to drive everywhere in your own car, you should support investment in the alternatives, because that will mean less traffic when you get in your car.

Pete_Cavan

There is no guarantee that double tracking to LJ will be part of the rail option proposal. I can't see how it would be justified for the service frequency.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579052#Comment_119579052

It doesn't need to be as Iarnrod Eireann have already said that it's to be done as part of their own upgrade plans.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579113#Comment_119579113

Yep exactly. Maybe that's gone over people's head a little bit because of the way we had framed it in the context of the M20. The rail upgrades WILL happen, I believe. The challenge is to swat away talk of "M20 isn't needed because of rail".

So that conversation goes both ways: rail upgrades are needed regardless of the M20, M20 is needed regardless of rail upgrades.

cjpm

Remember the big deal our transport minister was making about the proposed cost of the M20. And he kept referring to it as a 3 billion euro project.

I’m sure he’ll have no issues stumping up the €200,000,000.00 that the DAA will be looking for shortly for a fcuking tunnel under the runway at Dublin Airport.

But hey, cow farts are causing global warming, he’s no problem with all the flights in and out of Dublin.

DaCor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581349#Comment_119581349

The DAA receives no funding whatsoever from the state

cjpm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581375#Comment_119581375

I stand corrected!!

Insane to think that a tunnel scheme at the airport, will cost between a 1/4 and a 1/5 of the entire M20 scheme including the land acquisition….

DaCor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581439#Comment_119581439

What tunnel scheme are you talking about?

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581601#Comment_119581601

They're planning on building a 700m tunnel under the cross wind runway to facilitate access to new remote stands which are to be built on the West side of that runway.

KrisW1001

... and it will cost so much because they’re going to build it as quickly as possible while keeping the runway above in operation.

But as already noted, DAA is a private business and this isn’t tax money.

So... what about that M20, eh?

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we keep this thread for Limerick to Cork M20. Dublin Airport is a long way away from the proposed route.

You are welcome to open a new thread to discuss the DAA and its proposed spending of tax payers money because it is a state owned company and all its funds are ultimately our.

hans aus dtschl

This month is getting on now, any signs of the preferred route announcement date?

Limerick74

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636602#Comment_119636602

The preferred option was announced in March 2022.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639602#Comment_119639602

Apologies, I misread the topic title and I don't particularly care about the specific route (I was happy with the corridor choice) so I somehow thought this was the next stage/phase!

The website has the latest update as March 2022. Next phase is Phase 3 - Design and Environmental Evaluation.

Moderator: could we change the topic title to say Phase 3 perhaps?

marno21

I can’t ever recall this thread having no posts for 4 months

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/corkman/news/cork-county-council-set-to-seek-planning-permission-for-mallow-relief-road-before-the-end-of-the-summer-42293438.html

The latest. I will reserve comment

KELTICKNIGHTT

Nothing going too happen while green cabbage party leader Eamon Ryan in charge, hes probably busy planning bringing back wolfs back into Ireland countryside.

spacetweek

KELTICKNIGHTT

Keep it to the M20 and the politics out please.

/mod

AugustusMinimus

Goats loose at Ballybeg Bends for several days now on the main route between our 2nd and 3rd cities. Disgraceful.

ForiegnNational

Looking at the postings above since September 2022, we have discussed the rail option, Dublin Airport and even goats, however, is nobody else incredulous that there have been no public updates on the N20 project website since March 2022 and the only current news is that there is going to be a private meeting next week to update elected officials, but not the public.

It feels like everybody has simply given up caring.

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238271#Comment_120238271

I think it’s less that people have stopped caring, and more that there is general acceptance that this road will never actually be built.

We might eventually get a bypass or two along the route (Charleville, Buttevant), but anyone can see that the game is rigged. It is not possible to square the current government’s approach to the climate with building a high-quality road that would make road travel safer and simpler (and thus more attractive), that would support development in spread-out rural communities and small towns rather than in dense urban cores, and that would offer a convenient and helpful alternative to the train for getting between cities.

The M20 will meet the same fate as any of the other much-needed roads which have not yet been built.

brianc89

A motorway route via N24 and M8 between Limerick and Cork would only be c. 30km longer. Not to mention how much cheaper this would be given the M8 is built and N24 upgrade is also planned.

Mallow should get its bypass, that's it. Other funding should be diverted to a shorter direct rail line between Cork and Limerick.

Schorpio

It's not just about the added distance.

If traffic in the City would have to get to the new route, adding pressure on the existing routes to Dublin (and eastbound).

Part of the advantage of the new motorway option is that it creates a new arterial route in/out from the City, thereby avoiding adding more cars to existing routes (Dunkettle etc.)

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240066#Comment_120240066

I'd suggest that you read back through the thread. This has been discussed over and over and over again. There are very valid reasons that the final route was chosen.