M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Wouldn’t you think the editor of the Examiner would have more cop on than letting that jibberish go to print.

The 2+1 new-builds (Cahir is one) are much better than the 2+1 retrofits (Piltown, N20 south of Mallow), but the 2+2 road type is only slightly more expensive and has much higher capacity and much higher safety levels. A 2+2 gives both directions two lanes all the time,and with every junction as a grade-separated one, or a large roundabout: there are no crossing movements.

2+1, or “Type 3 Dual Carriageway” to give it its proper name, is no longer in the standard design manual at TII, so it cannot be used for any new road projects on the national network.

N24 Cahir to Limerick is planned to be a 2+2, and the Waterford to Cahir section will probably be too. Nobody is proposing a “motorway” (type 1 DC) here.

That the same national road that has speed ramps on it? Only in ireland......

Was there much local opposition to the M21 road?

The M21 and M20 could really transform the south west and mid west in terms of access. Hope they get it done.

It will obviously have to be redesigned. There should have been two slipways first day. However penny pinching decided on that solution. The present solution would not work for the M20 anyway

In fairness, most of the places you mentioned were always going to need both an inner distributor road and an outer bypass. The issue is not building two roads with distinct purposes, its the length of time between them being built. In the case of Killarney, I can't see another bypass being built, an upgrade with some junctions being closed would be more likely.

A bigger travesty around the towns you mentioned would have been a Tullamore bypass situation where one road was specifically built for two non-compatible purposes and we will be stuck with that for a very long time.

No point in wasting money on a rail line that will not be used

As far as I can tell, the improvements to the rail line are a double-tracking from Limerick Junction to Colbert Station and, as part of that, some advance works that will make the eventual electrification of this stretch cheaper to achieve later. This will allow more trains per day, and a faster journey times between the two endpoints. The biggest problem with Cork-Limerick by rail is that it is so slow: you have to change at Limerick Junction and then the last section is much, much slower.

Colbert station is pretty centrally located in Limerick - it’s less than 10 minutes by foot from the station to the commercial centre of the city. Cork Kent access has improved greatly now that an entrance has been opened on Horgan’s Quay, but it’s still a long way from the commercial centre (about 20 minutes’s walk). At least now with the extra space to the south there’s a chance of having a couple of onward city-service buses waiting for each train arrival.

The current rail link between Cork and Limerick is a deterrent to travelling by rail, even with the N20 being such a poor option - these works will make it attractive for city-to-city travel. But I think that improving the railway isn’t really about Cork-Limerick journeys (any more than improving N20 is about journeys starting in one city and ending in the other). The real gain from this rail work will be to allow for more sustainable housing development to the south east of Limerick city (which in turn will reduce commuter load on the forthcoming N24). This will be one of five planned commuter-rail corridors in Limerick (the other four are the Ennis line including a new branch to Shannon Airport; services as far as Castleconnel on the current Birdhill line; and new-build lines to Mungret and Adare).

We're slightly off-topic here, but good conversation.

I think regardless what happens with the M20 Limerick-Limerick Jn needs to be upgraded, as does through-running at Limerick Jn. M20 is needed too, but for slightly different reasons.

Kent isn't every endpoint in Cork. I'd use the Cork Commuter line to get to Limerick, for instance. And you could have future Luas users getting the train to Limerick. But Limerick Jn is definitely a bottleneck.

But Limerick's endpoints are a bit of a problem alright though. I have walked to Dooradoyle because it was easier than public transport!

There is no guarantee that double tracking to LJ will be part of the rail option proposal. I can't see how it would be justified for the service frequency.

Yep exactly. Maybe that's gone over people's head a little bit because of the way we had framed it in the context of the M20. The rail upgrades WILL happen, I believe. The challenge is to swat away talk of "M20 isn't needed because of rail".

So that conversation goes both ways: rail upgrades are needed regardless of the M20, M20 is needed regardless of rail upgrades.

... and it will cost so much because they’re going to build it as quickly as possible while keeping the runway above in operation.

But as already noted, DAA is a private business and this isn’t tax money.

So... what about that M20, eh?

This month is getting on now, any signs of the preferred route announcement date?