M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860602#Comment_118860602

Tolling may be an issue. The new road is using part of the realigned old road. AFAIK if you toll a road there must be an alternative free option. In this case there would not be.

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860696#Comment_118860696

Bypassing to the east is much better as the current pseudo bypass is to the west of the town.

Of course, it’s only a significant benefit if there is a junction with the N72 to the east of mallow.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860717#Comment_118860717

It will be much more viable to put in junctions this time. As it's using a lot of the old realignment. They will probably need to replace the existing Croom road/ M7 junction. This will Aso serve Kerry and Foynes. As they are using the Croom bypass its s matter of redesigning existing exit on the Ballingarry road.

Rourke's cross would be a complete new set up. However the access south of Charlesville should be nearer dire to using old alignment. You just put one in them at Buttervant and continue on to Mallow and Blarney exits

cjpm

Possibly the largest piece of infrastructure to be built in Munster since the Great Southern Railway in 1850’s

A solution to the most dangerous road in the country and a massive boost to both Cork, Limerick and all the towns in the hinterland

And this is what the Examiner highlight. It’s actually appalling.

marno21

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40841093.html

Very astute decision by all involved to refer to this as a dual carriageway. As all of us around here know, there is no practical difference between calling this a motorway or a dual carriageway at this stage of the development. It’s very likely this will end up being a motorway (which as we know is a Type 1 dual with blue signs), but it keeps away the attacks on the road being “over engineered” or “excessive”. This was very visible during the M28 charade with the objectors looking for a dual carriageway instead of a motorway despite there being no practical difference between the two in this context.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860936#Comment_118860936

Me me me, thats all you hear in the media when these big projects are announced. Never about the greater good, always some poor land/home owner who will suffer. Everyone wants change but only if it doesn't effect them.

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861332#Comment_118861332

Hell, they could build it as HQDC and then re designate shortly after opening.

Landowners could still apply for road access on HQDC so motorway is a must IMO.

lawrencesummers

Does this mean the planned completion date can be realistically revised down to some time in 2055?

pigtown

It's quite common for the NRA to refuse new entrances on regional roads so there's no chance anyone would get a new entrance onto a new dual carriageway

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860778#Comment_118860778

I think there are parts of this route ripe for tolling. The section bypassing Mallow and the Ballybeg bends as far as Buttevant seems like it would be ideal.

sheff_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860778#Comment_118860778

Does lack of an alternative route not also rule out the possibility of a motorway designation?

marno21

The sections of existing N20 that are being reused for the new road will have parallel access routes constructed for local movements which will function as a motorway alternative route.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860778#Comment_118860778

All M roads have an alternative route. So I would expect the M road to be tolled in almost all cases.

Limerick74

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861362#Comment_118861362

The road will be either a Protected Road (Dual Carriageway) or a Motorway (Dual Carriageway). Both have legal restrictions on direct access apart from road junctions, so not an issue.

Heartbreak Hank

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861332#Comment_118861332

Yeah that seemed a fairly glaring hole in that article - that the road is somehow scaled back from the last time round.

I also don't think the greenway first part works as there will be sections of the existing road narrowed for segregated active travel (open to correction on that)

raindodger

Hope we are all wrong and this much needed project gets done on time and within budget.Will need to keep the pressure on at every opurtunity with our politicians,because the wheel that doesnt squeak doesnt get any oil

trellheim

I cant believe a Green party minister for transport wont let it be tolled. I'd expect 2 tolls too, prob ~ rathduff and/or croom just to cover off both ends

Hibernicis

Two tolls on a road that length would be highly unpopular and I think unprecedented in this country. It would makes very little sense to do that and leave Dublin-Waterford entirely toll free. It could really only happen as part of a much wider review of tolling as part of an active demand management/disincentive strategy.

cjpm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865244#Comment_118865244

Very unlikely in the locations mentioned above. Both locations are online upgrades and would be incredibly unpopular, that’s if they were even legal.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865640#Comment_118865640

The M3 has two tolls in less distance but lets just not toll the M20 at all please!!! Don't forget there is a toll on the Limerick bypass already too.

cjpm

cjpm

cjpm

cjpm

A friend of mine sent me these. He received them yesterday

Maybe a mod could rotate them to portrait view. I couldn’t!

veryangryman

Fairly sure there can't be a toll given how far planning is done - wasn't it agreed strategically the tolling on the MIUs long before a tender went out?

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865814#Comment_118865814

Thanks. I had forgotten about that, being a road I have used no more than a couple of times. It makes the position of the M9 and the M11 seem even more ludicrous.

Hibernicis

@cjpm This is the full brochure from the M/N20 project website, including the drawings.

MN20_Brochure_Eng.pdf

marno21

By the time this opens, it would be more feasible to use electronic tolling with tolling based on the distance of the route used. Cameras at every entry and exit. It would be more sensible than fixed tolling as if you toll the road you’re going to be sending traffic either through towns/villages, along alternative routes for online upgrades or else through the septic stretches (Ballybeg bends etc). Given the safety considerations and the Ministers wish to see towns fully bypassed tolling would defeat the purpose of both of those.

hans aus dtschl

I think distance-based tolling is surely viable now that the technology has advanced. I remember the bad old days of queuing for the M50 toll... Now that the new M50 camera system has been proven to be viable, I can think of no reason not to put similar gantries in on other motorways.

On the issue of tolling and "M20 commuters" I believe we've been here before on the M8. Particularly at Watergrasshill. Some people will rat-run to avoid tolls, but the legacy road alignment largely makes that unattractive with additional traffic calming, junctions and traffic lights. I would fully expect either the M20 to be tolled or a city congestion charge to be applied at around Blarney. I don't see why you would try to avoid inconvenience to car commuters, while simultaneously hoping to build up a Blarney P&R. Not sure about the northern extent of the M20 though, considering there's a toll on the Shannon Tunnel. This will be a detail for us to ponder in the future, same as the junctions.

Chris_5339762

I don't want a toll, but I can see one happening. It'd have to be in a spot that makes them the most money but not too close to the Shannon tunnel. I reckon it'd be between Blarney and Mallow, unfortunately.

But when it comes to a congestion charge, you just can't have one until the N40 North East section (Blarney to Glanmire) is built, as there is no solution to going through Blackpool without it, and that includes port traffic getting to Limerick.