M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Just to recap, there are 7 phases in this project. It is currently in phase 3:

• Phase 1 (Concept and Feasibility)
• Phase 2 (Options Selection)
• Phase 3 (Design and Environmental Evaluation)
• Phase 4 (Statutory Processes, which includes An Bord Pleanála Oral Hearing)
• Phase 5 (Enabling and Procurement)
• Phase 6 (Construction and Implementation)
• Phase 7 (Close out and Review)

Regarding the Road solution, Phase 1 looked at 7 road options (including the N/M24 route, a couple of routes based around the R513 and other variations). The conclusion was that that a corridor based on the current N20 was the best option and this went forward to Phase 2. In phase 2, a number of routes within this corridor were looked at, and following consultation a preferred route emerged. This is the route is now being looked at in detail in Phase 3.

Regarding the Rail solution, Phase 1 concluded that there were two options, RS1 which is based on improvements to the current route/service via Limerick Junction and RS2 which looked at two new direct route from Charleville to Limerick. Phase 2 recommended that RS1 go forward to the All Ireland Rail Review.

Active Travel and Other Public Transport have also been part of the work completed to date.

There is no certainty around timing, and no long term commitment, however it was mentioned that Phase 3, which kicked off at the end of Spring 2022, should take approx 2 years. Some activity (Environmental Surveys, Archaeological Surveys etc has been reported over the course of the last 12 months). The outcome of Phase 3 will be the following: the Design Report, the Environmental Impact Assessment Report, the Statutory Process Documentation and the Business Case.

There is a a lot more information on the project website including:

• News: https://corklimerick.ie/category/news/
• Phase 2 outcome (Summary): https://corklimerick.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/5.6.Brochure-English.pdf
• Project Documents including the Constraints Reports: https://corklimerick.ie/downloadable-documents/

Rather than speculating here, it might be worth contacting the Project Office on info@corklimerick.ie to ascertain what progress they have made and what the next milestone/s might be and sharing anything you find out.

Different time, different Minsters.

I'd say the M/N20 will be done in some form. I don't think it'll languish like the Galway bypass. Locals and national traffic need something done. What that "something" is depends on the minister.

Timelines will be out the window due to ABP and the inevitable court challenges, but I do think that eventually an N/M20 will be built.

The Minister doesn't decide these things, that's not how it works.

Assuming the Greens won't be back.

I'd say just about everyone would agree that the tuam motorway was a total waste of money. The most over speced road I am aware of in Europe.

It was also built in a different era. We're now committing to a more than 50% cut in emissions from transport in a decade. Its nearly impossible to build new motorways and achieve that. This allows us to leave the powerful farming lobby alone.

The M20 has a real case to be built (unlike the Galway ringroad) in that it represents a major improvement in safety, an economic benefit in better connected haulage etc. Is that enough to get it built in the face of an unachievable emissions target? Who knows.

SF is a left wing party, they will form a left wing coalition likely involving the green party. More roads is a right wing policy, it supports individualistic transport and effectively subsidises the consumer choice of people who can afford private transport. Its fundamentally at odds with left wing principles.

Indeed. SF will be too busy throwing money at the Western Rail Corridor which they have absolutely, positively promised to deliver.

Until they don't.

This project is in Phase 3, which is effectively the design and (more important, for progress) the preparation of the environmental assessments needed for planning permission. Given that N6 has been effectively killed for not adhering to the government‘s environmental commitments, extra care will be taken with N20 to make sure that it can meet this standard.

Regardless of who is in government, this environmental policy will remain: it’s based on a treaty obligation to reduce CO2, so unless some future government wants to effectively ban fossil-fuel home heating, or cut the national dairy herd in half, then transportation needs to deliver reduced CO2 emissions.

I don’t think N20 will have anything like the fundamental difficulties that N6 faced in terms of environmental policy, but there are still risks. For a start, some of the ideas put forward for this scheme to increase lane capacity of N20 at its southern end and its tie-in to the eventual Cork North Ring Road that might not fit with a policy of reducing car-dependent commuting. There’s been a lot of talk about rail in terms of the whole Cork-limerick, or the Limerick approach from Limerick Junction, but I think the rail aspect of this project will also have to include upgrades to the Mallow-Cork commuter service, as doing this may remove the need to add extra lanes to N20 from Blarney, which would be there purely to accommodate commuter traffic in morning and evening.

Agreed with all, I suspect that the "proof" needed will be that this road won't attract more short distance car commuters than the alternative modes will. That means few junctions on the road itself and good commute options near either end.

You're missing some details I think.

The end-to-end journeys are a small fraction of the overall: Mallow, Buttevant and Charleville are significant trip generators (origin and destination) with their own industries and populations.

Significant numbers of HGV's on the route with no railhead for Cork port, and I suspect for Limerick either.

Significant issues with adding N/M20 throughput to the Dunkettle interchange.

Significant safety issues on the N/M20.

Of course the rail should be improved, and I think they should do that to get the project over the line (Blarney P&R, more services, better endpoint transport integration, integrated ticketing). But even if an N24/M8 route was progressed, the N20 will need significant works. The Ballybeg Bends are the tip of the iceberg, and the road has a terrible safety record.

There is significant HGV traffic currently going through Buttevant, Charleville (and to a minor degree Mallow).

Buttevant and Charleville are difficult to accommodate as strong commuter rail alternatives due to station locations and dispersed settlement patterns.

Dunkettle is genuinely not capable of accommodating any further upgrade.

So you're not making an illogical argument, it just doesn't fit well with the needs: this isn't a two-node system, it's something like a 4 or 5 node system. Buttevant is marginal, but Charleville and Mallow definitely need to be considered as urban areas with their own needs.

The safety argument alone will see the M20 built on/near current alignment rather than N24.

The current N20 just isn't safe enough for a primary road

I think that is the point. The motorway is required. What is the best OT option after that. An effective rail solutions would cost 100's million and might still get caught for frequency and the ability to serve commuters. Put that money into bus solutions and you get much more flexible solutions.

The M8/M24 route option was rejected in phase 1. Suggest you read the documents I linked to or go back over this thread if you want more on the reasons why. My view on it is fourfold:

• the additional 30km will lead to a significant increase in carbon in the medium term
• a relatively small percentage of the traffic is end to end (Cork City to Limerick City) and the M8/M24 route does absolutely nothing for traffic entering/exiting the N20 at intermediate points (e.g. Mallow, Buttervant, Charleville and any traffic originating from west of these)
• nobody to the west/north of Cork city will traipse across the city to join the M8. Ditto in Limerick city. We are after all creatures of habit and an additional 40km is a complete turn off
• the busiest part of the N20 (Mallow Cork) carries traffic that on its own qualifies it for a motorway. NONE of this traffic will go anywhere near the M8 so the existing N20 will become progressively even more dangerous

Taking these four points, the majority of the traffic that currently traverses the N20 will continue on that route in the event that the M8/N24 route is selected. With all of the safety, economic and environmental concerns remaining unresolved. Meanwhile we would spend a large part of the cost of the M20 building an over specified M24 from Cahir to Limerick, dual carriageway bypasses of Mallow, Buttervant and Charleville, with various significant relief/remedial works required elsewhere (Ballybeg Bends, O'Rourke's Cross, New Twopothouse, Waterloo etc)

The M8/M24 route option is dead. Thankfully. Even the M8/R513 route, which would be much more attractive from a user perspective, fails on most of the above points.

And as for the rail options, these are complimentary to the road option, nothing more. RS1 would increase the rail usage by 700 passengers per day, and RS2a or RS2B would increase rail usage by 1,800 per day at seven times the cost of RS1. The key point in both cases is that the additional rail passengers are transferring from existing bus services and there is no reduction in road traffic volume.

(I know this duplicates what others said - I typed it as soon as I saw your post but got distracted and didn't post)

Your point is that the M20 "isn't AS BAD as it's made out to be" and that has a good bit of truth in it for sure.

But I don't think cars will be carbon emission free for another 20 years or more after 2030. Plenty of 20 year old ICE engines around, and plenty of weird use-cases that electric engines still aren't quite dealing with, so there will likely be exemptions too.

And then there's the particulate emissions, and urban congestion factors to worry about outside of that, so "cars" aren't going to disappear, but it looks like we're likely planning towards some kind of plateau (maybe a decrease but I doubt it) in car km's despite population growth.

So the M20 just needs to deal with those things (some emissions, some danger of adding to urban congestion and unsustainable settlement patterns). I think it can. Will be interesting to see.

You'll definitely get a bit in Blarney alright. The Cobh line is really popular, and Blarney itself can expand/grow around the station. I know you're probably thinking mostly of the N/M20 longer-distance vehicles, but consider those more local commuters. Blarney has poor bus connectivity now, and an additional stop in Blackpool/Kilbarry would be transformative. You'd get some Blarney people going to Little Island, some Mallow people going to Blackpool, some Cobh line people going to Blackpool etc. I don't see it as a while elephant at all.

On freight, yes I agree, I don't see where it will go to be honest.