Womens Attitudes in Nightclubs

seahorse

Publin wrote: »

Me, nor anyone else, has questioned a girl's right to tell a persistent drunken idiot to "f**k off", only that is shouldn't happen when a guy approaches politely. I think that's clear to everyone else reading this thread, and I can't spell it out any more clearly.

You can spell that point out as clearly as you like, but you are continuing to ignore an important reality for women, and it’s this: persistent drunken idiots are the cause of women’s negative attitudes in nightclubs. I have not tried to "justify" the women’s nasty reactions; I've tried to outline their origins from a woman’s perspective for the benefit of your understanding.

You are asking women to do the impossible: to disallow repetitive negative experiences colour their expectations of the experiences likely to follow. In other words, you are asking women to display levels of patience and tolerance beyond the realms of what is humanly likely or even practicable. Learning from experience is a useful inbuilt basic human function beyond the control of women or men. And while we’re on the subject, here’s something I learned from experience a very long time ago: You cannot always assume that because a man first presents as respectful and well-mannered he is necessarily going to stay that way.

A man may be courteous and polite when he first introduces himself, but let him buy you a drink and spend half an hour chatting to you and as often as not he’ll undergo a very apparent personality transformation when you attempt to leave alone. Then his courtesy and politeness may go very swiftly out the window and you’ll be abruptly labelled a “slapper” and a “pr!cktease”. Are you really surprised women don’t wilfully let themselves in for that type of experience over and over again? The very first thing I told my younger sister when she started going to clubs in her teens was to never ever accept a drink from a man she didn’t know.

Yes, if we lived in a little-house-on-the-prairie type fictitious reality all women would be exemplary models of excellent manners regardless how many leering drunken pushy perves they'd encountered; they'd receive every ‘I'd-eat-the-fukin-minge-off-ya’ style comment with the same measured rationale they’d receive every uninvited hand on the backside, and ascribe them to their perpetrators and nobody else, and never reach the limit of their patience, since in that sort of unrealistic utopian world there would be no limits, therefore they would not have those experiences colour their perceptions of men in general and they would greet all decent and civil advancements with indulgent grace; but here's the catch: we don’t live in the TV and even if we did, the nightclub experiences of every half-decent-looking woman reading this would be set to the adult channel.

indough

seahorse wrote: »

You are asking women to do the impossible: to disallow repetitive negative experiences colour their expectations of the experiences likely to follow. In other words, you are asking women to display levels of patience and tolerance beyond the realms of what is humanly likely or even practicable.

You are asking men to do the impossible: to disallow repetitive negative experiences colour their expectations of the experiences likely to follow. In other words, you are asking men to display levels of patience and tolerance beyond the realms of what is humanly likely or even practicable.

it works both ways, if women should be allowed stereotype all us guys because of experiences with other guys, then we should be allowed do the same with regard to ****-ish behaviour from women

Terry

I was in the pub last night and the place was packed.

There was a table in the smoking area with a couple of seats free and I asked the two girls sitting at the other side of the table would they mind if I took one of the chairs and sat at the other side of the table.
They had no problem with this and said they were leaving soon anyway.

When they got up to leave, I thanked them for the chair and for the table.
I didn't expect sex.

It was a complely courteous exchange.

Ladies, sometimes we just want to sit down and relax.

ewj1978

Pub... Club, two completely different social scenes imo. Pubs are generally seen as places to chat and have a laugh while most people would see the club as a place to score.

AlmightyCushion

Terry wrote: »

I didn't expect sex.

You probably should have. It sounds like you were in there, they did let you sit at their table.

javaboy

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

You probably should have. It sounds like you were in there, they did let you sit at their table.

+1. Sounds like a couple of easy riders to me Terry.

Terry

Damn it.
This is why I never score.

ewj1978

Drink does impare the thought process...

Terry

I wasn't drunk at that time.
Actually, I didn't get drunk at all last night. I went home early because I was tired.

seahorse

indough wrote: »

You are asking men to do the impossible: to disallow repetitive negative experiences colour their expectations of the experiences likely to follow. In other words, you are asking men to display levels of patience and tolerance beyond the realms of what is humanly likely or even practicable.

Sorry but that just doesn’t work in the reverse, for a lot of reasons, not least of which being because the overwhelmingly largest proportion of intrusive abuse in pubs and clubs is directed towards women, not men.

Men who feel stretched to the limits of their patience by the attitudes of women in nightclubs ought to consider having an honest and serious talk with their sisters/female cousins/friends. I can guarantee they'd be surprised with what they'd find out and also that, if they are reasonable people, they will find the limits of their patience lengthened immeasurably.

If you think someone telling someone else to "fukoff" in a nightclub is such a disgraceful and unwarranted experience for a person to be subjected to, maybe you should consider the alternate scenario: it includes verbal sexual abuse along with character assaults and a physical differential that involves the drunkenly out-of-control and aggressive antagonist being taller, stronger and heavier by 50lbs. Which would you rather experience as routine when you go out for the night?

Terry

seahorse wrote: »

Sorry but that just doesn’t work in the reverse, for a lot of reasons, not least of which being because the overwhelmingly largest proportion of intrusive abuse in pubs and clubs is directed towards women, not men.

Men who feel stretched to the limits of their patience by the attitudes of women in nightclubs ought to consider having an honest and serious talk with their sisters/female cousins/friends. I can guarantee they'd be surprised with what they'd find out and also that, if they are reasonable people, they will find the limits of their patience lengthened immeasurably.

If you think someone telling someone else to "fukoff" in a nightclub is such a disgraceful and unwarranted experience for a person to be subjected to, maybe you should consider the alternate scenario: it includes verbal sexual abuse along with character assaults and a physical differential that involves the drunkenly out-of-control and aggressive antagonist being taller, stronger and heavier by 50lbs. Which would you rather experience as routine when you go out for the night?

I don't do fat chicks.
They need to be at least 100lbs lighter.

seahorse

Terry wrote: »

I don't do fat chicks.
They need to be at least 100lbs lighter.

Well then you must be a bit on the fat side yourself, unless you're into shagging skeletons.

WindSock

javaboy wrote: »

+1. Sounds like a couple of easy riders to me Terry.

++1, basically if you are not told to **** off, it automatically means ride me sideways. They obviously wanted a 3some and you missed out.

Dragan

seahorse wrote: »

You can spell that point out as clearly as you like, but you are continuing to ignore an important reality for women, and it’s this: persistent drunken idiots are the cause of women’s negative attitudes in nightclubs. I have not tried to "justify" the women’s nasty reactions; I've tried to outline their origins from a woman’s perspective for the benefit of your understanding.

You are asking women to do the impossible: to disallow repetitive negative experiences colour their expectations of the experiences likely to follow. In other words, you are asking women to display levels of patience and tolerance beyond the realms of what is humanly likely or even practicable. Learning from experience is a useful inbuilt basic human function beyond the control of women or men. And while we’re on the subject, here’s something I learned from experience a very long time ago: You cannot always assume that because a man first presents as respectful and well-mannered he is necessarily going to stay that way.

A man may be courteous and polite when he first introduces himself, but let him buy you a drink and spend half an hour chatting to you and as often as not he’ll undergo a very apparent personality transformation when you attempt to leave alone. Then his courtesy and politeness may go very swiftly out the window and you’ll be abruptly labelled a “slapper” and a “pr!cktease”. Are you really surprised women don’t wilfully let themselves in for that type of experience over and over again? The very first thing I told my younger sister when she started going to clubs in her teens was to never ever accept a drink from a man she didn’t know.

Yes, if we lived in a little-house-on-the-prairie type fictitious reality all women would be exemplary models of excellent manners regardless how many leering drunken pushy perves they'd encountered; they'd receive every ‘I'd-eat-the-fukin-minge-off-ya’ style comment with the same measured rationale they’d receive every uninvited hand on the backside, and ascribe them to their perpetrators and nobody else, and never reach the limit of their patience, since in that sort of unrealistic utopian world there would be no limits, therefore they would not have those experiences colour their perceptions of men in general and they would greet all decent and civil advancements with indulgent grace; but here's the catch: we don’t live in the TV and even if we did, the nightclub experiences of every half-decent-looking woman reading this would be set to the adult channel.

Sorry, i don't buy it.

It's never okay to be rude to someone just because members of a similar social group ( in this case Men ) act in a certain way.

Talk about tarring all people with the one brush? Your post implies that women have some kind of angelic behaviour mode when they are out on the town and i sincerely doubt that many people would think this, so i don't believe for one second you do.

I would suggest you treat people as they deserve to be treated, which is how they have acted to you. Sitting there waiting for the 30 minute turn around is pointless, you'll see it whether it is there or not if you are expecting it.

Don't get me wrong, i either want to laugh or cry at the way i see some blokes acting towards women in club and pubs but to let that colour your view of any man who approaches you, simply because he did so, is stupid.

Utterly so.

javaboy

seahorse wrote: »

If you think someone telling someone else to "fukoff" in a nightclub is such a disgraceful and unwarranted experience for a person to be subjected to, maybe you should consider the alternate scenario: it includes verbal sexual abuse along with character assaults and a physical differential that involves the drunkenly out-of-control and aggressive antagonist being taller, stronger and heavier by 50lbs. Which would you rather experience as routine when you go out for the night?

Sorry but that's pure bull imo. Telling someone to **** off as a very first line of defence against someone who may only be trying to be friendly is disgraceful and unwarranted. Nobody here is defending the morons who don't take no for an answer or get abusive.

If any man or woman can't conduct themselves in a reasonable manner i.e. not harass women and tell guys to **** off without reason, then maybe they should just stay at home.

And btw if a drunken potentially abusive bloke approached a girl, telling him to **** off probably isn't the wisest course of action.

norrie rugger

seahorse wrote: »

Sorry but that just doesn’t work in the reverse, for a lot of reasons, not least of which being because the overwhelmingly largest proportion of intrusive abuse in pubs and clubs is directed towards women, not men.

Men who feel stretched to the limits of their patience by the attitudes of women in nightclubs ought to consider having an honest and serious talk with their sisters/female cousins/friends. I can guarantee they'd be surprised with what they'd find out and also that, if they are reasonable people, they will find the limits of their patience lengthened immeasurably.

If you think someone telling someone else to "fukoff" in a nightclub is such a disgraceful and unwarranted experience for a person to be subjected to, maybe you should consider the alternate scenario: it includes verbal sexual abuse along with character assaults and a physical differential that involves the drunkenly out-of-control and aggressive antagonist being taller, stronger and heavier by 50lbs. Which would you rather experience as routine when you go out for the night?

That is absolute and total BS

Just because you have bad experience with 1 guy DOES NOT give you the right to be rude to the next

I have had bad experiences with women in clubs not taking no for an answer and have had to tell them in no uncertain terms that I was not interested. I have been spat at, had abuse shouted at me, hell I even had a girl try to tell a bouncer that I molested her. I was just very lucky that he had seen the whole thing.

That does not give me the right to be rude to the next girl who comes along, who in a polite manner strikes up a conversation. If she gets the message that I am in a relationship, then I will happily talk away to her all night, circumstances permitting.

It is very easy to differenciate in a club/pub (where the bloody hell ever)
A guy comes up to you and starts asking "how are you", "you having a good night" etc. You say, "ah tis always good to get away from himself for a night ya know"

That way, he knows that you are "off the market" so to speak. It is now up to him to continue a nice polite conversation (lady receptive) or get lost. If the guy does not get lost, you go over to a bouncer and say that a guy is harrassing/annoying you. He will deal with it. That way you do not have to say "Fcuk Off" to anyone.
It also means that the assh*les who cause the trouble (and generally do not care if they are told fcuk off) get delt with and the genuine guy who either finds you attractive or is just a bit bored (waiting for his buddies or somewhat) do not get unwarrented abuse hurled at them.
I am sorry but if someone thinks that it is ok to throw abuse at anyone for having the nerve to find them attractive, or think that they may be receptive to a bit of friendly conversation, then I would find them to be c**ts of the highest order (male or female)

Terry

seahorse wrote: »

Well then you must be a bit on the fat side yourself, unless you're into shagging skeletons.

267lbs at last weigh-in (two weeks ago (I've lost a stone)), so only tall chicks at 10/11 stone and shorter chicks have to be lighter.

WindSock wrote: »

++1, basically if you are not told to **** off, it automatically means ride me sideways. They obviously wanted a 3some and you missed out.

Damn it.
Again, this is why I never score, and a woman telling me I was in and all.
Where's Marty McFly when you need him?

norrie rugger

Terry wrote: »

267lbs at last weigh-in (two weeks ago (I've lost a stone)), so only tall chicks at 10/11 stone and shorter chicks have to be lighter.




Damn it.
Again, this is why I never score, and a woman telling me I was in and all.
Where's Marty McFly when you need him?

http://redlightnaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/delorean1.jpg

There you go, take mine
Now remember, ALL women in clubs will expect a shag if they do not tell you to fcuk off

seahorse

Dragan wrote: »

I would suggest you treat people as they deserve to be treated, which is how they have acted to you.

Well I would suggest you read my posts more thoroughly before you respond to them Dragan, because if you had you'd know I do treat men who approach me in the manner they deserve.

The only men who’ll be given to consider me a cow while I’m out and about are the men who deserve to be told where to go, because it wouldn’t occur to me to tell a man who approached me politely to fukoff; my point in these last couple of posts has been that I’ve witnessed and experienced enough at this point in my life it gives me to understand why some women do.

As for me personally: if a man approaches me civilly and then quickly turns sour when I’ve politely rebuffed his advances (as has often happened) well, that’s a man who's just peeled off the veneer of civility when he sees it’s not getting him anywhere; and as for men like that being stretched to the limits of their patience in an attempt to not consider me a cow, indough is well off the mark there, because those sort of men are welcome to consider me anyway they want; they can consider me the biggest cow in Dublin; I truly couldn’t give a fuk – as long as they keep their comments to themselves and their hands off my arse.

Look, all I’ve got to say about this issue is this: you all are living in fcuking Pollyanna-land if you think the type of constant harassment women have to put up with when they go out is not going to lend to some portion of them becoming rude, belligerent and pre-emptively aggressive.

Terry

Equal rights for some...

norrie rugger

seahorse wrote: »

Look, all I’ve got to say about this issue is this: you all are living in fcuking Pollyanna-land if you think the type of constant harassment women have to put up with when they go out is not going to lend to some portion of them becoming rude, belligerent and pre-emptively aggressive.

then why should a guy bother to be polite, civil, genuine, interested in anything you want to say.
I mean if he is going to be told F off... why bother?

You can NOT have it both ways

javaboy

seahorse wrote: »

Look, all I’ve got to say about this issue is this: you all are living in fcuking Pollyanna-land if you think the type of constant harassment women have to put up with when they go out is not going to lend to some portion of them becoming rude, belligerent and pre-emptively aggressive.

I'm curious. Why is it that you manage to not let the 'constant harassment' make you rude, beliggerent and pre-emptively aggressive while other women don't seem to manage it?

Is it perchance because they are somewhat rude and bitchy anyway whereas you're not?

Solarball10

To tell someone to f*k off when they're trying to start up a conversation with you, is quite frankly, so bloody rude and downright disrespectful.
I have a b/f, but if a guy came up and started chatting to me, I'd chat right back, up until the point where he makes it obvious he'd like something more, at which point I say "Sorry, I have a boyfriend!" I'd also say this if he offered to buy me a drink, cos he's obviously not going to buy a drink for someone he's not interested in. (I HAVE let a drink be bought for me before, but I was young and didn't have much money )
Back to topic, never EVER tell someone to f*k off, if all they're trying to so is talk to you nicely. Different story of course if they're being a drunken lout and trying to feel you up, etc...

norrie rugger

ozzyoh wrote: »

To tell someone to f*k off when they're trying to start up a conversation with you, is quite frankly, so bloody rude and downright disrespectful.
I have a b/f, but if a guy came up and started chatting to me, I'd chat right back, up until the point where he makes it obvious he'd like something more, at which point I say "Sorry, I have a boyfriend!" I'd also say this if he offered to buy me a drink, cos he's obviously not going to buy a drink for someone he's not interested in. (I HAVE let a drink be bought for me before, but I was young and didn't have much money )
Back to topic, never EVER tell someone to f*k off, if all they're trying to so is talk to you nicely. Different story of course if they're being a drunken lout and trying to feel you up, etc...

Woot...
We have a winner

That's it, thread ends here.
Everyone else, just refer back to this post

Dragan

seahorse wrote: »

Well I would suggest you read my posts more thoroughly before you respond to them Dragan, because if you had you'd know I do treat men who approach me in the manner they deserve.

The only men who’ll be given to consider me a cow while I’m out and about are the men who deserve to be told where to go, because it wouldn’t occur to me to tell a man who approached me politely to fukoff; my point in these last couple of posts has been that I’ve witnessed and experienced enough at this point in my life it gives me to understand why some women do.

As for me personally: if a man approaches me civilly and then quickly turns sour when I’ve politely rebuffed his advances (as has often happened) well, that’s a man who's just peeled off the veneer of civility when he sees it’s not getting him anywhere; and as for men like that being stretched to the limits of their patience in an attempt to not consider me a cow, indough is well off the mark there, because those sort of men are welcome to consider me anyway they want; they can consider me the biggest cow in Dublin; I truly couldn’t give a fuk – as long as they keep their comments to themselves and their hands off my arse.

Look, all I’ve got to say about this issue is this: you all are living in fcuking Pollyanna-land if you think the type of constant harassment women have to put up with when they go out is not going to lend to some portion of them becoming rude, belligerent and pre-emptively aggressive.

I did read your post, and what i took from it was you saying that women will do this because they get harassed.

That's not an excuse to treat all people the same, simple as.

And definitely not an excuse to be rude simply because you were approached.

Personally i've never been told to "**** off" by a lass, i did have one lass tell me she "wasn't interested" because i stood beside her at the bar.

I found that a bit funny.

Wagon

...lesbians in batter?

norrie rugger

Dragan wrote: »

i did have one lass tell me she "wasn't interested" because i stood beside her at the bar.

I found that a bit funny.

oh oh I had that, well similar!!

All I said then was "that's great babes, now would you get out of the way cause I am trying to get served here"
Was great to see her friends laughing at her

norrie rugger

Wagon wrote: »

...lesbians in batter?

super hot lesbians or the sterotypical butch ones?

cause I do not like to imagine the latter, in any of my fantasies

Solarball10

norrie rugger wrote: »

oh oh I had that, well similar!!

All I said then was "that's great babes, now would you get out of the way cause I am trying to get served here"
Was great to see her friends laughing at her

Lol! That's a good one...I had a kind of embarrassing incident on Saturday actually, this guy kept shoving a drink at me, and I kept pointing to my own as in, like, I have one already! (as if I'd take a drink off some randomer anyway!)
Then he did same thing to my mate - turned out he just wanted to clink glasses with someone!
Tipsy or ditzy? I'll leave it up to you to decide...

Malari

Ever since my boyfriend saw that ad on tv for Private Practice, I think, he's been wanting to say this to a random fat girl in a pub:

"You look hot"
"oh thanks!"
"No, I mean you're sweating"

Now that would deserve a f*** off.