Irish Post Codes

Del2005

odin_ie wrote: »

Why not just use the existing OS Map system as the base for the postal code system.

Because the OS wanted such a huge amount of money for their maps it was cheaper for the GPS mapping companies to pay people to drive cars on every road in the country then pay for the OS for their maps. It's one of the reasons we where so late in getting decent GPS maps.

Delphic

Here's a website about a location code system that the Minister talked about using - www.gocode.ie

Eamon Ryan said the postcode had to be accurate enough so it can identify lamposts if they need repairing - this one identifies places up to 6 feet apart depending on the number of characters you use. you can use it on the web, satnav and your mobile - and they've got a look-up address system for a lot of houses already and a map to pick out the place if they haven't.

5starpool

There are so many people that complain about anything new being introduced, and it is just ridiculous. Some people just want a reason to whinge and complain, and it is fairly pathetic. There is no reason to oppose a post code system here as far as I can tell, but still people want a whinge, ignore the facts (like the cost), and just use the bits that suit them to complain, and ignore the bits that mean their argument is moot.

Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if it is introduced as a dogs dinner that is pretty rubbish, but if done right it will be a very good thing that should have been done years ago.

JJ

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/streets-filled-with-letters-as-postcodes-go-national-1891967.html

I'll believe this when I see it but thank God An Post are finally entering the 20th century. I'm sick to death with wrestling with online forms that ask for a "proper" post code or hearing people saying they can't complete an online form because they don't have a post code.

A few years ago I was ordering something from the UK over the phone and I told them my address including my Dublin "post code" and the woman at the other end asked for my post code. I said it was Dublin 8. She didn't accept that and demanded I give my post code. I told her it was Dublin 8. She then put me on hold, came back and continued to demand for my post code. I said it is Dublin...8, nothing more, nothing less. She put me on hold again, came back and finally accepted my "post code".

Capt'n Midnight

JJ wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/streets-filled-with-letters-as-postcodes-go-national-1891967.html

I'll believe this when I see it but thank God An Post are finally entering the 20th century.

Actually they skipped the 20th century.

Post codes were used because the experianced postal sorters were sent to the Western Front in WWI

Post codes were an aid for inexperianced manual sorters.

Nowadays OCR means that post codes aren't needed by An Post as they can usually read the printed / handwritten address automatically and only need to route the illegiable ones to a human being.


Post Codes are a 20th century solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

If we implement a geographic/demographic pigeon holeing system we shouldn't call it a post code as it isn't needed for post.




In case anyone thinks it will only cost a few million to impliment remember EVERY business will need to change ALL it's brochures, publicity material, order books, web sites etc. - a nice little earner.

120_Minutes

JJ wrote: »

thank God An Post are finally entering the 20th century.

that still puts them a century behind the rest of us.

DamoDLK

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

...Post Codes are a 20th century solution to a problem that doesn't exist...

In fairness, Sat Nav's could do with this feature, to help find a company in one of those spaghetti junction West Dublin Business parks...

cournioni

I just give my local road as the postal code. eg. L12345

Capt'n Midnight

DamoDLK wrote: »

In fairness, Sat Nav's could do with this feature, to help find a company in one of those spaghetti junction West Dublin Business parks...

no use unless the sat nav is updated regurarly with maps and such like , but getting info off the OS is another survey


nothing stoping any company getting their lat+longtitude off google earth and then handing out the numbers


Ind Est's should all have maps at the enterance so people could find units easily , post code won't tell you which unit it is anyway so you would still need the map.

garydubh

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

no use unless the sat nav is updated regurarly with maps and such like , but getting info off the OS is another survey

Why do folk insist on offering opinion on things they no nothing about. OS in Ireland do not provide mapping that is used in SatNavs. Keeping the SatNav maps up to date is up to you and reporting ommissions/errors is also up to you. Perhaps you should have a read here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055451502

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

nothing stopping any company getting their lat+longtitude off google earth and then handing out the numbers

which format would you recommend - Degrees and decimal degrees, degrees minutes and decimals of minutes, degrees minutes seconds and decimals of seconds, how many decimal points would you recommend and how can you ensure the device that is to handle the numbers sent will support the format you have used - confused - well so will most folk be - hence this is not a good idea - dont' agree? well I have researched it - have you?

Finally - what makes you think Google Earth is correct? - oh is it the sat images... 2 points for you...they are shifted out of place in Ireland east west by 30 meters, they are not updated regularly and there is no consistent detail over the whole country - ok so use the road mapping - yes why not - but it may be the same mapping you are worried about keeping up to date on your SatNav.....

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Ind Est's should all have maps at the enterance so people could find units easily , post code won't tell you which unit it is anyway so you would still need the map.

PON Codes will define each individual property.......

joewicklow

Has anyone applied for theirs yet?

http://www.irishpostcodes.ie/index.php

segaBOY

Lets get countrywide broadband coverage first-then we can worry about the postcodes.

kincsem

The sooner we get postcodes the happier I will be. This week I drove to a village near Dublin. The address was New Road. On a road outside the village I asked a cyclist for directions to New Road. He sent me back half a mile to New Road (signposted New Road). A woman there said the first road I was on was correct (it didn't have a signpost). I returned and after calling into a business there I was re-directed to an industrial estate on another road nearby (not very near). About twenty minutes pissing about.

Multiply that by thousands of people a year. Charming, folksy, quaint, and unnecessary.

kincsem

I put my address into the PONC website.

My address is 24 Zzzzzzzzz Avenue
The site put a pin into the map at 24 Zzzzzzzzz Drive

I often get mail for 24 Zzzzzzzzz Drive possibly because they are using the wrong PONC code for my house for years.

Their site allowed me drag the address pin to my house. When I saved they e-mailed me my PON code. When I go back into their website and re-enter my new PON code it shows the address pin on my house correctly. Cool. Very happy with that.

It is brilliant. They have area (3.5 km square), local (120 metre square), exact (+/- 6 metres) PONC codes, and you can view them on maps.

It is in the format AA9 9999


http://www.irishpostcodes.ie/findyourponca.php

Occam

Interesting to see that we are getting post codes.

Has anyone heard how the department are planning to implement it?

Personally, I'd make the following suggestions:

1) Don't use a Co-Ordinate Hash, especially in urban areas. Its just a cop out. Loads of weird anomolies would pop up. If post codes were assigned to each drive\avenue\close etc it would make much more sense. Geodirectory provides us with a great head starton this.

2) If a hash is used, don't use a proprietary system. Hashing algorithms are pretty straightforward so we can easily enough dream one up. A particular commercial entity is heavily pushing its own product on this thread but I'd suggest that if some form of Co-Ordinate hash is to be used, then the algorithm must be open source.

The Volt

Occam wrote: »

Interesting to see that we are getting post codes.

Has anyone heard how the department are planning to implement it?

Personally, I'd make the following suggestions:

1) Don't use a Co-Ordinate Hash, especially in urban areas. Its just a cop out. Loads of weird anomolies would pop up. If post codes were assigned to each drive\avenue\close etc it would make much more sense. Geodirectory provides us with a great head starton this.

2) If a hash is used, don't use a proprietary system. Hashing algorithms are pretty straightforward so we can easily enough dream one up. A particular commercial entity is heavily pushing its own product on this thread but I'd suggest that if some form of Co-Ordinate hash is to be used, then the algorithm must be open source.

Personally I feel it's an idiotic move by a communications minister who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

Overheal

google it






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afaik a US post code is designated by what Post Office covers that area. As for the numbers, couldn't tell ya.

The 5 digits:

ZIP (Zoning Improvement Plan) code instituted by the U.S. Postal Service to facilitate mail handling and delivery. The first digit represents one of ten areas of the country (0 = New England, 9 = West Coast). The first three digits together represent a sectional center facility or main post office. The last two digits further define the destination point in terms of a post office or delivery center area within a large city or in terms of a small city or town whose residents share the same ZIP code. Some large buildings or organizations that receive high mail volumes have their own five-digit ZIP code(s). Users of bulk mail are required by the Postal Service to sort their mailings by five-digit ZIP code. Mailers also use the ZIP code to sequence and segment lists by the demographic characteristics of the residents of each ZIP code area and to identify the best ZIP code areas to send future promotions. See also five-digit qualified; national zip code area; nine-digit zip code; zip select.

Every zip in the greater charleston area (at the least) as a 294xx code.

You can also, optionally, add a 4 digit suffix to your outgoing mail, the ZIP + 4. This is geographic.

A ZIP + 4 code uses the basic five-digit code plus an additional four digits to identify a geographic segment within the five-digit delivery area, such as a city block, a group of apartments, an individual high-volume receiver of mail or any other unit that could use an extra identifier to aid in efficient mail sorting and delivery. Use of the plus-four code is not required except for certain presorted mailings. In general, mail is read by a multiline optical character reader (MLOCR) that instantly determines the correct ZIP + 4 code from the address and — along with the even more specific delivery point — sprays a Postnet barcode on the face of the mailpiece that corresponds to 11 digits. This technology has greatly increased the speed and accuracy of mail delivery and, in turn, kept costs nearly constant for over a decade.

For post-office boxes, the general (but not invariable) rule is that each box has its own ZIP + 4 code. The add-on code is often one of the following: the last four digits of the box number (e.g., PO Box 58001, Washington DC 20037-8001), zero plus the last three digits of the box number (e.g., PO Box 12344, Chicago IL 60612-0344), or, if the box number consists of fewer than four digits, enough zeros added to the front of the box number to make it a four-digit number (e.g., PO Box 52, Garrett Park MD 20896-0052). However, there is no uniform rule, so the ZIP + 4 code must be looked up individually for each box.

It is common to use add-on code 9998 for mail addressed to the postmaster (to which requests for pictorial cancellations are usually addressed), 9999 for general delivery and other high-numbered add-on codes for business reply mail. For a unique ZIP code (explained below), the add-on code is typically 0001.

galwayrush

I hope they create a system that works better than e-voting and other hair brained half baked ideas.:rolleyes:
Of course it will cost at least double what it's suppost to.

Kipperhell

galwayrush wrote: »

I hope they create a system that works better than e-voting and other hair brained half baked ideas.:rolleyes:
Of course it will cost at least double what it's suppost to.

E voting worked certain people didn't like the idea of computer based voting and jumped on every method they could to discredit it. It is probably still more accurate than the system we are sticking with but mistrust has won out.

I would suspect unions are acting like Luddites in both matters.

The government should have foreseen the issue and built in additional safe guards to shut them up

spacetweek

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Actually they skipped the 20th century.

Post codes were used because the experianced postal sorters were sent to the Western Front in WWI

Post codes were an aid for inexperianced manual sorters.

Nowadays OCR means that post codes aren't needed by An Post as they can usually read the printed / handwritten address automatically and only need to route the illegiable ones to a human being.

Post Codes are a 20th century solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Absolute nonsense. I don't think you know what postcodes are used for. Post is only one application. You're correct that they aren't needed as much for that - it's all the other applications they're needed for that makes them so essential.

Satnavs - Enter postcode. Works perfectly in urban areas (gets you to within a few houses), quite well in rural areas (to within the right laneway).
Emergency services - See above, allowing faster response time. Particularly in rural areas - you don't want to have to describe to the ambulance driver that you're "the second right after the big tree".
Census taking - Census districts are far too big in Ireland. Far more granularity of areas is required. Some census areas in Dublin have a population of 50,000 or more, with varying density and demographics within. How is this supposed to be useful to people planning service and transport provision?
Deregulated postal system including couriers - Now that we have a deregulated postal service, not having postcodes is a barrier to entry to our market. We cannot tell foreign couriers that they have to walk around boreens in Offaly to learn where all the cottages are in order to operate in the area since we don't have postcodes.
Compatibility with other countries - Postcodes are so ubiquitous that foreign companies have assumed they are always present. Not having one causes problems, as another poster described. Easier just to comply.

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

In case anyone thinks it will only cost a few million to impliment remember EVERY business will need to change ALL it's brochures, publicity material, order books, web sites etc. - a nice little earner.

For who exactly? The gov wouldn't benefit. In any case brochures etc. wouldn't need to be updated straight away - it would be fine to wait until the next time they redesigned it which happens every year anyway. The few million to implement is the actual cost. The cost to business isn't paid for by the gov and if implemented during a renewal cycle is effectively free.

spacetweek

Voltwad wrote: »

Personally I feel it's an idiotic move by a communications minister who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

I'm just interested by this comment. May I ask, have you ever lived in a country that uses postcodes? Do you know all the other uses they are put to?

It's just that a lot of Irish people seem to think that a postcode goes on a letter and is used for nothing else. It's a totally essential piece of infrastructure that we're sorely lacking here and the only reason it's taking so long is because it's a complex issue and many concerns have to be addressed.

The Volt

What's wrong with the current mechanised sorting system?

These savings of 22 million that Ryan speaks of is over the course of 15 years, not immediately. It'll also cost so many million a year to maintain as well.

The Volt

spacetweek wrote: »

I'm just interested by this comment. May I ask, have you ever lived in a country that uses postcodes? Do you know all the other uses they are put to?

It's just that a lot of Irish people seem to think that a postcode goes on a letter and is used for nothing else. It's a totally essential piece of infrastructure that we're sorely lacking here and the only reason it's taking so long is because it's a complex issue and many concerns have to be addressed.

He appears on Sunday TV in a geansai (The Val Doonican of Irish Politics) in the middle of the debates on NAMA, the Lisbon Treaty and the McCarthy report to announce the introduction of postcodes at a time when the government have scrapped a cervical smear campaign for young girls which would've cost 10 million, a green minister wants to spend at least 15 million on something there is no overwhelming demand for.

As far as other uses go, Garmin have already developed a postcode of their own in conjunction with a company in Cork, the emergency services have access to the geodirectory system designed by the OS and An Post which gives them the exact co-ordinates, longtitude and latitude. Totally essential? Are you sure?

My concern is that the minister would announce this move at such a difficult economic time for the country and the knock on costs for all businesses who would be forced to pay for new databases in order to incorporate the new code would cost them millions at a time when investment in our future is sorely needed. There is also the issue of whether or not the supposed 15 million investment by the government should not be used to alleviate the suffering their mismanagement of the economy has caused.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Threads merged.

thebman

Voltwad wrote: »

What's wrong with the current mechanised sorting system?

These savings of 22 million that Ryan speaks of is over the course of 15 years, not immediately. It'll also cost so many million a year to maintain as well.

Only costs money because they choose a retarded post code model instead of using an algorithm and co-ordinate system.

They decided people in D4 loike need to be able to show that they are from D4 loike.

Fooking public service is a joke and always manages to pick the wrong option it seems. Always choose the one that costs most to maintain rather than the most efficient, cheapest and best to use.

A retard could see that a system that doesn't require a database to maintain would be better than a system that does. However An Post choose what appears to be an archaic already out of date system before its even implemented from what I can see.

I'm open to correction but this system is sh*t compared to what we could have had.

Dankoozy

for anyone who mentioned sat navs - just enter the freaking coordinates you muppet. no need to come up with yet another cryptic letters+numbers grid system that only works in one country.

i also think you should be able to post a letter by just writing the coordinates on it. in the case of apartment blocks you would have to specify the number of meters above (or below) sea level as well

thebman

Dankoozy wrote: »

for anyone who mentioned sat navs - just enter the freaking coordinates you muppet. no need to come up with yet another cryptic letters+numbers grid system that only works in one country.

i also think you should be able to post a letter by just writing the coordinates on it. in the case of apartment blocks you would have to specify the number of meters above (or below) sea level as well

The point would be a shortened code for sat navs that works for post codes too.

CutzEr

Dankoozy wrote: »

for anyone who mentioned sat navs - just enter the freaking coordinates you muppet. no need to come up with yet another cryptic letters+numbers grid system that only works in one country.

i also think you should be able to post a letter by just writing the coordinates on it. in the case of apartment blocks you would have to specify the number of meters above (or below) sea level as well

*facepalm*

Overheal

Dankoozy wrote: »

for anyone who mentioned sat navs - just enter the freaking coordinates you muppet. no need to come up with yet another cryptic letters+numbers grid system that only works in one country.

i also think you should be able to post a letter by just writing the coordinates on it. in the case of apartment blocks you would have to specify the number of meters above (or below) sea level as well

Hey you're right. By the time Aperture Science Labs commercialize portal technology we'll already have an addressing system in place. I cant wait for 2028!

Occam

thebman wrote: »

Only costs money because they choose a retarded post code model instead of using an algorithm and co-ordinate system.

I'd argue that the co-ordinate system would be the stupid choice. A post code model offers an opportunity to logically group addresses which would be much more flexible in the long term in accomodating uses other than post delivery. In addition it would allow us to determine the granularity of grouping, which would be a problem with high density developments if a co-ordinate system was used.

thebman wrote: »

A retard could see that a system that doesn't require a database to maintain would be better than a system that does..

No matter what happens there will be a database of addresses. This is the whole point to the exercise.