Irish Post Codes

garydubh · 13-09-2008 6:23pm

towel401 wrote: »

AGPS could improve that even more. a Thuraya satellite phone i had a while back would send its gps coordinates to the base in the UAE each time it made a call. they used this to find some poor bastard stuck on K2 a while back without him having to tell them the post code of where he was stuck.

then use that. don't make it part of the address

well that's a bigger problem. people are obsessed with convenience to the point that it is ruining their lives. one of the reasons i don't like this postal code system is that it will facilitate this kind of paranoid urbanite yuppie lifestyle. that's why i thought of the pipeline, it allows you to live your whole life in a single room and doing everything electronically which is apparently what people want.

i'm not going to tell people how they should live their lives so i have nothing against pizza-ordering urbanites to get their own post code and maybe a password on their address so they can easily block mail from people they are trying to avoid or ignore without confrontation. like a real-life facebook

Thuraya! - you're mixing your meta technologies - too many illogical aqualogical tehnological redherrings for me! Think your just dropping tech terms!! Beam me up Scotty to JG8 (rather than K2)

towel401 · 13-09-2008 6:25pm

garydubh wrote: »

Thuraya! - you're mixing your meta technologies - too many illogical aqualogical tehnological redherrings for me! Think your just dropping tech terms!! Beam me up Scotty to JG8 (rather than K2)

i never mix those up. but have fun on k2

garydubh · 22-09-2008 7:46am

Yesterday I read that in Ireland both the Transport and Agriculture sectors' Carbon emissions have been underestimated by up to 12%

A Post Code system which is capable of locating individual properties, used in conjunction with a SatNav, would straight away reduce failed courier deliveries by 3%. Equally, as time and fuel trying to find the property will have been reduced, and the need for a revisit will have been eliminated, then the carbon footprint of couriers will have been reduced by at least 3%.
Post Codes defining individual properties will also allow for best route optimistaion and load factor maximisation, again reducing significantly the sectors' carbon footprint and related costs. For this reason DHL are taking an active part the Galileo Masters GPS project to satisfy these aims.

Furthermore, the 0.5 million commercial vehicles on our roads would also take advantage of better routing and less time and fuel wasting trying to find places. It is estimated that high resolution postcodes used in conjunction with SatNavs can contribute to up to 15% in fuel savings and related carbon emmission reduction from the transport sector.

PON Codes are the only working post code system capable of supporting these savings and reductions.

It is true that in this country, the Government has yet to understand the potential contribution of SatNavs to Carbon emmission savings. If they did understand the potential, they would already be supporting, through their departmnets and agencies, realtime road change updates and the installation of realtime traffic instrastructure capable of feeding information to SatNav's which already can reroute on the basis of traffic information - thus saving significant time, fuel and carbon emmissions!! The potential savings could be up to 20% with full support and infrastructure!!!.

SatNavs are not just for fun - they are now a commercial necessity, needing full Government support to take full advantage of the benefits......PON Codes www.irishpostcodes.ie have been designed as the most fundamental building block in in a SatNav based fuel, time and Carbon reducing infrastructure.

Meanwhile, Post Codes promised for Jan 2008 are still being disputed at Government and Postal level - working under the fallacy that they are mainly about delivering mail!!! And more than this it is now suggested that part of the hold up is because the people in Dublin 4 do not want to have to stoop to a different Postal code.

So why did they base a Post Code proposal on arbitrarily detremined boundaries and polygons - let others do this - use PON Codes instead which do not have to worry about arbritarily contrived boundaries which will be disputed forever and at some time will have to be changed.

News for those in D04 - your grid reference is already in existence and you have no control over it - and PON codes are just an easier way of expressing it.

PON Codes can be used now for time, fuel and carbon economies - Garmin 700 series SatNav's have PON Codes for testing purposes see here: http://www.irishpostcodes.ie/useponconsatnav.php

ScumLord · 22-09-2008 11:07am

garydubh wrote: »

A Post Code system which is capable of locating individual properties, used in conjunction with a SatNav, would straight away reduce failed courier deliveries by 3%.

BALLS!! Big fat hairy ones. We have a devilry service where I work and we don't use sat nav. Mostly because up until now they've been useless at finding anywhere outside major cities.

The fact is there's only really one way to know how to get anywhere in Ireland for sure. To have gone their already. Maps are useless because half the roads aren't on them (I'd guess this might be true for yer newfangled sat gadgets too) sign post are just the NRAs idea of a very funny joke and sometimes don't point in the right direction. You need to have travelled the road before and you need to remember how you got there.

The main roads have got allot better but you try taking the back roads and tell me then a sat nav could take you through that maze.

22-09-2008 11:30am

In the area where I live there are several roads that are impassible by any form of motor transport (you can just about walk them), but they show up as "roads" on any satnav.
The PONC system is great for pinpointing a location on a map but you still need a good roadmap (with or without satnav) to get to it.

A good postcode system needs to relate to local conditions, i.e. all houses on a particular road should have the same prefix etc.

Nalz · 22-09-2008 11:56am

FX Meister wrote: »

only in dublin. They tried to bring them in on trial basis in certain parts of the country but reports were that most boggers couldnt understand the system

yur ma

thebman · 22-09-2008 5:17pm

ScumLord wrote: »

BALLS!! Big fat hairy ones. We have a devilry service where I work and we don't use sat nav. Mostly because up until now they've been useless at finding anywhere outside major cities.

The fact is there's only really one way to know how to get anywhere in Ireland for sure. To have gone their already. Maps are useless because half the roads aren't on them (I'd guess this might be true for yer newfangled sat gadgets too) sign post are just the NRAs idea of a very funny joke and sometimes don't point in the right direction. You need to have travelled the road before and you need to remember how you got there.

The main roads have got allot better but you try taking the back roads and tell me then a sat nav could take you through that maze.

It maybe an inflated stat (I don't honestly know) but there is no doubt that it can save fuel by calculating faster routes in most circumstances. The vast majority of roads are mapped out properly in the countryside these days and even if they aren't, it can quickly work out an alternate route which usually involves a detour of at most a few miles from the default route as if it was impossible to go down the path in a car, there will most likely be a road nearby that will get the person back on track. All you have to do is hit the alternate route button.

garydubh · 09-10-2008 8:13pm

The latest update on Post Codes for Ireland is here:
http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2897

garydubh · 14-10-2008 9:46pm

So there you go - as I projected - a National Post Code system was supposed to be introduced by Jan 2008. I have spent the last few hours searching through the budget estimates for 2009 as announced today and there is no apparant allocation for a National Post Code system in 2009 either. In fact, the Dept Of Comms budget in 2009 will be down by 13% - so definitely no obvious provision for the capital cost of a National System or for the compensatory costs suggested for An Post.
Outline capital estimates for 2010, also published today, show no obvious allocations either. In fact, as far as I can see, the last official (Government or Departmental) mention of a National Post Code system was in the Green Party statement on the programme for Government last December (2007). Looks like proposals for a National Post Code system have been well and truly shelved for now!

Just as well PON codes are in place - they do not require millions of capital expenditure to establish and they are ready to use..... www.irishpostcodes.ie and - at no cost to the state!

Blush_01 · 14-10-2008 10:22pm

Dudess wrote: »

I can't understand the need for post codes outside of Dublin as there just isn't the population for it, but the lack of house numbers and road names in the countryside is ridiculous. Stuff like John Murphy, Townland, Co Cork - must be a nightmare for a new postman/woman.

Well I think Irish postmen and women are great - I got a letter addressed once for Úna with a fada, Townsland, Village, County. They're smarter than we give them credit for.

giggsy664 · 14-10-2008 10:38pm

I just type in "Co. Dublin"

Works every time

garydubh · 14-10-2008 10:44pm

giggsy664 wrote: »

I just type in "Co. Dublin"

Works every time

Co Dublin! where do you type it in??......... - oh sorry I see - you have a space on some form and you want to fill it with something! - So Post Codes are about finding something that a space on a form will accept ???

I was looking at it from a different persepective - i.e. getting a Post Code that if used would help someone deliver or get to me more efficiently!

NotInventedHere · 14-10-2008 11:02pm

[/QUOTE]
Just as well PON codes are in place - they do not require millions of capital expenditure to establish and they are ready to use..... www.irishpostcodes.ie and - at no cost to the state![/QUOTE]

My post code area is centerd on Park West. **** that I dont want to be lumped in with Cherry Orchard and BAllyfermot

Realtine · 14-10-2008 11:06pm

NotInventedHere wrote: »

Just as well PON codes are in place - they do not require millions of capital expenditure to establish and they are ready to use..... www.irishpostcodes.ie and - at no cost to the state![/QUOTE]

Feck off

My post code area is centerd on Park West. **** that I dont want to be lumped in with Cherry Orchard and BAllyfermot[/QUOTE]

15-10-2008 12:40am

If these guys ^^^^ are as good writing addresses as they are at quoting messages, it's a wonder they receive any post at all! :rolleyes:

garydubh · 15-10-2008 6:39am

PON Codes will be individual - you will not have the same as others - PON Codes are unique every +/- 6 meters....

NotInventedHere · 15-10-2008 6:34pm

garydubh wrote: »

PON Codes will be individual - you will not have the same as others - PON Codes are unique every +/- 6 meters....

Are not the first 3 letters an area code, That is how people will see. "Oh! you live in mw9 code, I see..... This is inevitable.

garydubh · 15-10-2008 7:50pm

NotInventedHere wrote: »

Are not the first 3 letters an area code, That is how people will see. "Oh! you live in mw9 code, I see..... This is inevitable.

and 01 837... also represents a certain area in Dublin but is not the full Telephone number - the number is the full 9 characters or else it is of no value to anyone - in the same way as PON codes are the full 7 characters.

and the D11 district is not abbreviated to D1 or D14 to D4!!!

If you want to be snobbish about your PON Code - it is the first 3 characters and the last 2 that count - i.e. a 120m square area - buy a big enough house and you won't have to share it with anyone!!!!!!

towel401 · 15-10-2008 8:00pm

garydubh wrote: »

and 01 837... also represents a certain area in Dublin but is not the full Telephone number - the number is the full 9 characters or else it is of no value to anyone - in the same way as PON codes are the full 7 characters.

and the D11 district is not abbreviated to D1 or D14 to D4!!!

If you want to be snobbish about your PON Code - it is the first 3 characters and the last 2 that count - i.e. a 120m square area - buy a big enough house and you won't have to share it with anyone!!!!!!

so some people will have shared codes? that kind of defeats the whole purpose.

surely if you're inventing a brand new system here you will have a different code for every house, apartment.

Won't someone please think of the children? a child minder could end up getting dispatched to the wrong house while the poor child chokes to death on an oversized pringle. the system would have failed that child and its inventors would be sued to bankrupcy.

in this country it's always good to use safety and potential yet unlikely accident scenarios to push your point of view.

15-10-2008 9:07pm

towel401 wrote: »

so some people will have shared codes? that kind of defeats the whole purpose.

surely if you're inventing a brand new system here you will have a different code for every house, apartment.

The house/flat number along with the occupants name, is the final decider in any addressing system. The UK system usually has a whole street on the same postcode, aome large buildings may have a different postcode for each floor or group of floors, it's not that rigid.

Some houses that are accessable from two different streets can have one postcode for the front door and another one for the back!

garydubh · 15-10-2008 10:03pm

towel401 wrote: »

so some people will have shared codes? that kind of defeats the whole purpose.

surely if you're inventing a brand new system here you will have a different code for every house, apartment.

Your misinterpreting - the full 7 characters of a PON code has a resolution of +/- 6 meters - so most properties will have a unique Code - possibly 2 in some urban areas will have the same.

Apartments in a block will all have the same PON Code but with different door numbers. Final travel from road to door will always be aided by House Name or Number in urban areas.

All the safety justifications for PON Codes are well discussed earlier in this thread and here: http://www.gpsireland.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=79

xOxSinéadxOx · 15-10-2008 10:08pm

hold the phone, this is coming in?

towel401 · 15-10-2008 10:27pm

garydubh wrote: »

Your misinterpreting - the full 7 characters of a PON code has a resolution of +/- 6 meters - so most properties will have a unique Code - possibly 2 in some urban areas will have the same.

Apartments in a block will all have the same PON Code but with different door numbers. Final travel from road to door will always be aided by House Name or Number in urban areas.

All the safety justifications for PON Codes are well discussed earlier in this thread and here: http://www.gpsireland.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=79

6m not very accurate when you consider the ever decreasing size of houses. In a few years people will be living in capsule residences [ like capsule hotels but as a permanent residence] and the code will be worthless. if you include GPS inaccuracies then it's even more than 6m.

you might as well just write the coordinates on the envelope. This business with converting it to letters and numbers is worthless unless you bring in some sort of checksum and add a few digits for a unique number for every post box. but that only makes things complicated so lets just stick to what we have. write the coordinates on some inconspicuous part of the package if you're worried the polski driving the delivery van won't be able to find the place

garydubh · 15-10-2008 10:36pm

towel401 wrote: »

6m not very accurate when you consider the ever decreasing size of houses. In a few years people will be living in capsule residences [ like capsule hotels but as a permanent residence] and the code will be worthless. if you include GPS inaccuracies then it's even more than 6m.

you might as well just write the coordinates on the envelope. This business with converting it to letters and numbers is worthless unless you bring in some sort of checksum and add a few digits for a unique number for every post box. but that only makes things complicated so lets just stick to what we have. write the coordinates on some inconspicuous part of the package if you're worried the polski driving the delivery van won't be able to find the place

Your comments suggest that you are ignoring the fact that few of our population can understand/use Lat/long coordinates or remember ITM coordinates which are 12 characters long - all discussed and dealt with earlier in this thread.

With respect to the capsule - we will be delivering to that using the "Beam Me Up Scotty Machine" Brian Lenihan is paying the R&D costs on at present!

+/- 6 meters is pretty good for any location codes and will do us very well for many years to come - unless of course you are "ar dha thaobh an bhothair" in which case - stand back and take a run at it and hope that someone else opens the door !!!!!!!

towel401 · 15-10-2008 10:46pm

garydubh wrote: »

Your comments suggest that you are ignoring the fact that few of our population can understand/use Lat/long coordinates or remember ITM coordinates which are 12 characters long - all discussed and dealt with earlier in this thread.

With respect to the capsule - we will be delivering to that using the "Beam Me Up Scotty Machine" Brian Lenihan is paying the R&D costs on at present!

+/- 6 meters is pretty good for any location codes and will do us very well for many years to come - unless of course you are "ar dha thaobh an bhothair" in which case - stand back and take a run at it and hope that someone else opens the door !!!!!!!

a set of coordinates contains the same amount of information as a phone number or two. if someone can't remember those they probably won't remember the address either

if you bring in a post code system now it would be a good idea to make it so it never has to be changed. that includes checksums, unique codes and room for expansion. like IPv6 - an IP address for every grain of sand on 3 planets the size of earth

garydubh · 15-10-2008 11:12pm

towel401 wrote: »

a set of coordinates contains the same amount of information as a phone number or two. if someone can't remember those they probably won't remember the address either

if you bring in a post code system now it would be a good idea to make it so it never has to be changed. that includes checksums, unique codes and room for expansion. like IPv6 - an IP address for every grain of sand on 3 planets the size of earth

We don't need to know where you P....!!!!!

towel401 · 15-10-2008 11:18pm

garydubh wrote: »

We don't need to know where you P....!!!!!

wtf?

Keith186 · 15-10-2008 11:49pm

8 page discussion on postcodes?

I didn't know some people were so passionate about this sort of stuff.

NotInventedHere · 16-10-2008 3:50am

garydubh wrote: »

and 01 837... also represents a certain area in Dublin but is not the full Telephone number - the number is the full 9 characters or else it is of no value to anyone - in the same way as PON codes are the full 7 characters.

and the D11 district is not abbreviated to D1 or D14 to D4!!!

If you want to be snobbish about your PON Code - it is the first 3 characters and the last 2 that count - i.e. a 120m square area - buy a big enough house and you won't have to share it with anyone!!!!!!

The fact of the matter is that people are snobby about post codes the world over. Happened in Ireland with 6w instead of D26. and London is rife with it. Regardless of what you say when they are introduced they will have a huge impact on areas and their desirability or lack there of. Anyhoo dont an post have this already with geo directory.

garydubh · 16-10-2008 7:37am

NotInventedHere wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that people are snobby about post codes the world over. Happened in Ireland with 6w instead of D26. and London is rife with it. Regardless of what you say when they are introduced they will have a huge impact on areas and their desirability or lack there of. Anyhoo dont an post have this already with geo directory.

I think snobbery is the last thing people are worrying about with respect to houses right now!!!

Vanity addresses based on snobbery are a problem in Ireland right now and we do not need a Post Code system to cause that - but that bubble has now burst!!!People who would like to choose their Post Code to suit their aspirations cannot with PON Codes - if they choose to use an incorrect PON code then the person driving to their door will not get there - a simple choice!

If you feel that a PON Code and therefore Latitude and Longitude or Irish Grid (ITM) does not properly reflect your status in the world then change planet( one of the 3 you are palnning for) and make sure on the new one that the Prime meridian does not go through the equivalent of Greenwich. Or take it up with the Ordnance Survey who define Irish Grid and ITM. Everyone's house has had a Lat/long - Grid coordinate for many years and no one has complained about that ever - PON Codes are just Lat/long and Grid in a shorter format!!!!

Therefore, there is no justification for using any element of a PON Code to suit snobbery as unlike the existing Dublin District Postal system PON codes do not bound areas with the same type of houses - purely a mathematical relationship with Lat/long and Grid.

Yes there is a Geodirectory which belongs to An Post and the OSI with Grid Coordinates in it - nobody has ever complained about the coordinates for their property in this either. The Geodircetory cannot be used as a Post Coding system for several reasons explained earlier in this thread, including reasons given in the Dail.

The Geodirectory is an expensive address database which PON codes does not use so that deployment and maintenance costs and logistics are minimised for users.

Over 6 months of discussion on PON Codes you are the first to introduce the idea of snobbery!!!! And since the days of Mercator nobody has ever complained that the coordinates of the place where they live have not suited their status in life!!! You should take it up with the Ordnance Survey Of Ireland who define our National Grid System.

Irish Post Codes

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