The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

leon8v

Sizzler wrote: »

Dear Motorist,

You may be a regular M50 user or you might just have to use it once a year for that trip to Dublin Airport to collect dear old aunty Bridie. Regardless of how often you use it the fact is YOU the motorist are now being ripped off like never before ! The NRA might claim they have done us all a favour by removing the toll booths and congestion has eased considerably but the fact is we are now paying for that privilege, for the irregular user you are now paying 50% more !

The eFlow system has suffered a litany of problems since its launch on August 29th, some of you reading this will empathise with stories of being billed for journeys you never made, your credit card was whacked with charges you can't make sense of, you have received half a telephone book of literature in the post because eFlow don't have a 'record' of you paying (John Gormley, Green party anybody?), you can't get through to their telephone number, you can't pay online, you get the drift.

The M50 has paid for itself many times over, it was also paid for in part by the EU many years ago, guess what YOU are now paying for it all over again !

This madness has to stop, say no to the TOLL!

I like it, Should it include a piece about refusing to pay it or would that be taking it too far.
Oh and any dig at John Gormless is always an added bonus.

thebman

I really like the idea of not paying the toll.

Think about it, that would really work. I don't think they'd put back up the toll. They may start to realise that we'd rather pay more taxes than go through all this hassle everytime we want to use roads instead of these stealth taxes that we have to pay wages and upkeep to keep in place :rolleyes:

I think I'd rather an increase in tax and I don't even use any toll roads.

Sizzler

leon8v wrote: »

I like it, Should it include a piece about refusing to pay it or would that be taking it too far.
Oh and any dig at John Gormless is always an added bonus.

Feel free to add your own militant ending to that template

eg -

- They couldn't sustain one days worth of traffic not paying.

- Its not right that the motoring public get shafted again for this.

- People power does work (Skye Bridge, see below)

I've seen plenty of "do not buy petrol today" email's, this one has a hell of a lot more potential imho! Something could actually be done about it.

100,000 cars on average pass through a day, they are already struggling to cope with between 5-10% of errors on a daily basis (depending on who you believe) so imagine what would happen if even an extra 10-15% of motorists down tools for their journey and refused to pay.....

Wikipedia wrote:

The first major capital project funded by the Private Finance Initiative, the bridge has been controversial since its construction was announced. In exchange for the contractors funding the bridge's construction themselves (rather than being paid to do so from the public exchequer) they were granted a licence to operate the bridge and charge travellers tolls. When the Bridge contract was first awarded, the partnership estimated it would cost around £15 million, although delays and design changes added significantly to the cost (to around £25 million, by the BBC's estimate).

The tolls charged by the bridge concessionaire, Skye Bridge Ltd., proved to be particularly unpopular. By 2004 a round trip cost visitors £11.40, fourteen times the round trip price charged by the Forth Road Bridge (a crossing over twice the length), a price which protesters claimed made it the most expensive road in Europe. As the Skye bridge was being constructed, several other (smaller) bridges were also being built or planned in the Hebrides, connecting smaller islands either to larger ones or to the mainland. These bridges were to be public roads without tolls, and Skye locals came to believe that the Skye bridge too was a public road on which no toll should be levied.

The ferry operator, Caledonian MacBrayne, had made a profit of over a million pounds per year on the route, but observers from the BofA and later the National Audit Office noted that many locals were excused the ferry fee by ferry workers, with much of the ferry's revenue coming from the heavy summertime tourist traffic. One local told the BBC that on the day following a defeat of the English football team by their German counterparts, ferry workers had let cars bearing German licence plates travel for free. In the bridge's first year of operation it recorded traffic of 612,000 vehicles, a third more than the ferry's official numbers.

This included mass protests and a prolonged non-payment campaign, and continued as long as the tolls. A toll-collector interviewed by the BBC in 2005 said that abuse of collectors by motorists had been commonplace. Numerous toll opponents were cited for refusing to pay the toll, with around 500 being arrested and 130 subsequently convicted of nonpayment. Among those charged was Clodagh Mackenzie, an elderly lady from whom the land necessary for the bridge's arrival in Skye had been compulsorily purchased; the charges against her were subsequently dropped without explanation. Of those convicted, only the first, the SKAT Secretary Andy Anderson, received a (brief) prison term. Those charged with nonpayment had to make the 140 mile round trip to Dingwall sheriff court, again crossing the bridge and where again many refused to pay, incurring a further criminal charge. Robbie the Pict argued that the legal paperwork for the tolls was incomplete, and that consequently the tolls themselves were illegal. In particular he said that the "assignation statement", a licence to charge a toll, had never been given. Interviewed later by the BBC Fiscal Davind Hingston in Dingwall refuted this claim, but admitted that he himself had been denied access to many government documents on the case, on the grounds of commercial confidentiality. Hingston told the BBC "As a fiscal I was stuck with that evidence but as a private individual I found it stunning" [1], leading to renewed calls that the convictions of the toll protestors should be quashed - to this the Crown Office reiterated that appeals on these grounds had already been rejected by the courts.

The bridge, and the toll protest, became a continuing political issue. Following the 1997 General Election, the Labour-run Scottish Office introduced a scheme whereby tolls for locals were subsidised (the scheme cost a total of £7 million). Following the creation of the Scottish Parliament, the Scottish Labour Party joined in coalition with the Scottish Liberal Democrats, who had made the Skye Bridge toll abolition one of their priorities. With responsibility for Scotland's road network transferred from Westminster to the Scottish Executive, increased political pressure was placed on the toll's future. On June 3, 2004, Jim Wallace, the Enterprise Minister in the Scottish Executive announced that he hoped the bridge would be bought out, and tolls abolished, by the end of 2004. [2] In line with this, on December 21, 2004, Scottish Transport Minister Nicol Stephen announced that the bridge had been purchased for approximately £27 million, and toll collection immediately ceased. [3] During the preceding decade £33.3 million in tolls had been collected. Figures obtained by the BBC under freedom of information laws showed the consortium's operating costs on the bridge had been £3.5 million.

The topic is explored extensively in George Monbiot's book Captive State in which he examines the merits and demerits of Private Finance Initiatives.

jenzz

I travel it up to 6 times a day & have a tag. I have noticed southbound in the furthest right lane it never ever beeps. On another note I got a penalty today for my written off car. I asked for a picture for the craic just to see how in gods name someone managed to get the thing to move after it was floating in about 5 foot of water.

LEIN

jenzz wrote: »

I travel it up to 6 times a day & have a tag. I have noticed southbound in the furthest right lane it never ever beeps. On another note I got a penalty today for my written off car. I asked for a picture for the craic just to see how in gods name someone managed to get the thing to move after it was floating in about 5 foot of water.

6 times a day!

You are a very busy man.

My tag doesn't beep all the time but the money is still ducted.

NeMiSiS

Follow up to this;

NeMiSiS wrote: »

I have been trying to pay a toll since last night.
Last night I tried online - "an error occured"

This morning the same, so I ring them and give me cc number etc, and I am told - the system isn't working - I am to ring customer services.

I explained to the guy that I have been trying to pay online also - and I have been unable to, and ask "What will happen if I am not able to pay you, even though I have been trying" He told me "We will send you a fine.."

Customer services number just gets a busy dial tone.

I will happily pay the toll - if they allow me to.

Idiots.

TK

and this ;

"And it gets better!
My Credit Card company just rang to inform me that EFlow are trying to put 6 transactions through now!"


I just got 3 letters in the post saying I've to pay my toll, for the 24th and 25th of September. For the 24th I used their web****e and was told my transaction was sucessful.

My CC company has informed me they are trying to debit me now for 36 euro on the 25th - I actually owe them 6. This is because I -tried- to pay 6 times and failed. The guy on the phone even suggested I go down to a shop and try pay there, I told him I had better things to do. I went to the shop to get my lunch and there was a woman there who had payed recently in the same shop - with a notice saying she had not payed and now had 14 days.

So they owe -ME- 30 quid.

I rang them and the girl on the phone told me she would clear off those transactions - I don't know if I can believe that.

If they debit my card I will go to there offices and wait all day until I receive a cheque to refund me the money I am owed.

Awful bunch of ****ing idiots.

TK

Mr. Flibble

NeMiSiS wrote: »

Follow up to this;



and this ;

"And it gets better!
My Credit Card company just rang to inform me that EFlow are trying to put 6 transactions through now!"


I just got 3 letters in the post saying I've to pay my toll, for the 24th and 25th of September. For the 24th I used their web****e and was told my transaction was sucessful.

My CC company has informed me they are trying to debit me now for 36 euro on the 25th - I actually owe them 6. This is because I -tried- to pay 6 times and failed. The guy on the phone even suggested I go down to a shop and try pay there, I told him I had better things to do. I went to the shop to get my lunch and there was a woman there who had payed recently in the same shop - with a notice saying she had not payed and now had 14 days.

So they owe -ME- 30 quid.

I rang them and the girl on the phone told me she would clear off those transactions - I don't know if I can believe that.

If they debit my card I will go to there offices and wait all day until I receive a cheque to refund me the money I am owed.

Awful bunch of ****ing idiots.

TK

Isn't this what credit card charge backs are for?

Our man in Havana

If you are prepared to wait 3 to 6 months for satisfaction.

leon8v

Just logged into my eflow account again this morning and low and behold another F****ng mistake. Apparantly I went through it yesterday twice within 13 seconds on each other. Now I did go through at the time they specified alright and my tag beeped but its charged me for it twice, once with the tag ID and once without and the second time is 13 seconds later. Now even a Bugatti Veyron with an empty road and all the lights with it at the blanch exit would struggle to get up to blanch back down and through again within 13 seconds. Bunch of muppets. And its not as if its a letter I can ignore, If I dont get it resolved it will be taken from my bank account at the end of the month. Only for my car is registered in my companies name, I would be cancelling my tag and account and ignoring all letters until it came to court. I think that mail above needs to be finalised and sent round to everyone we can to get this thing to grind to a halt. Its a farce.:rolleyes:

cormie

They still haven't called me back regarding the weight dispute with my van. That must be about 3 weeks I'm waiting now. I've done what I need to do to inform them so the ball is in their court.

leon8v

What size van is it? Some of our medium to small vans are going through as cars on the video account.
At the moment they are suppossed to be coming back to me on 3 different queries and today will be the 4th one. They are all since the start of the week. I wonder what would happen if everyone started sending their tags back to them and cancelling the direct debits or credit cards.

cormie

It's the van in my signature they had it at 2020KG, 20KG over the 2tn limit, I changed this by having to go to a weigh bridge, get a docket, go to tax office and do loads of stuff there, once that was done, it was still showing up on their site as over 2tn so I rang up and left it with them.

leon8v

cormie wrote: »

It's the van in my signature they had it at 2020KG, 20KG over the 2tn limit, I changed this by having to go to a weigh bridge, get a docket, go to tax office and do loads of stuff there, once that was done, it was still showing up on their site as over 2tn so I rang up and left it with them.

Ah I see, well good luck dealing with them.
I just spoke to them about a trip appearing twice on my account yesterday. The trip times for yesterday that he had on his "Live" screen were completely different to the times I actually travelled but he assured me that the transactions section on the online account is not live and doesnt change as regularly as their system. So in otherwords it will update at some stage to take away one of my charges as someone has already spotted it and updated the "Live" system they have. I will believe it when I see it. Pretty much means looking on your online account is useless as it might not be accurate. Yet more evidence of the farce that is Eflow.
I wonder if banks came out and said, dont believe everything on your online banking it might not be accurate would it cause a stir!!!!

Seth Brundle

I'm starting to feel left out!
I haven't registered with them so have no account to check and I haven't received any letters yet!

leon8v

kbannon wrote: »

I'm starting to feel left out!
I haven't registered with them so have no account to check and I haven't received any letters yet!

Dont worry, There is a very good chance that there is an erroneous 4 pages letter winging its way to your door as we speak.

Speaking of which, the €40 notification letters include a picture of the car, but the reg is not legible from it, unlike say a speeding fine. So in theory it could be any reg. I wonder would that stand up in court?

Our man in Havana

I wonder would that stand up in court?

I doubt it. I also doubt that they will be taking anyone to court any time soon.

Have they sent out any €40 notices yet?

cormie

I need to travel through it today, bought an etrip tag a few weeks ago but have been waiting to find a taxi with a referral number since to get the 3euro off before I register it :P I'm tempted not to register it at all now and just hope the system collapses

leon8v

Bond-007 wrote: »

I doubt it. I also doubt that they will be taking anyone to court any time soon.

Have they sent out any €40 notices yet?

Yep, we got 3 here in work so far.

@Cormie, Whats this taxi referral thing about?

cormie

Etrip have an offer that if a taxi displays an etrip sticker on their back window, they get a discount and every referral they get to sign up to etrip, the taxi gets 3 euro credit and so does the new sign up (me). Haven't found any at taxi ranks to ask over the past few weeks though unfortunately

ART6

kbannon wrote: »

I'm starting to feel left out!
I haven't registered with them so have no account to check and I haven't received any letters yet!

Have a bit of patience. They are trying to work their way through sending the four page letter to every member of the population, so it'll take a little time for them to get to you. Personally, I'm waiting for the letter that accuses my son's dog of driving through the tolls both northbound and southbound at the same time.:D

Seth Brundle

Bond-007 wrote: »

I doubt it. I also doubt that they will be taking anyone to court any time soon.

Have they sent out any €40 notices yet?

It was reported in the media that a number of car hire companys received the €40 fine - before the initial 14 day period have been reached!!!

unkel

kbannon wrote: »

I'm starting to feel left out!
I haven't registered with them so have no account to check and I haven't received any letters yet!

That's cause you took off your number plates

confuzed

i got two 40€ fine letters after about a month. (Damn lazyness!) but when i tried to pay; she told me there is no fine on your number plate. I called customer care and she confirmed it. I don't know what to do. I don't want to get in any more trouble.

ART6

confuzed wrote: »

i got two 40€ fine letters after about a month. (Damn lazyness!) but when i tried to pay; she told me there is no fine on your number plate. I called customer care and she confirmed it. I don't know what to do. I don't want to get in any more trouble.

Sounds pretty typical of the whole shambles. Another case of our government trying to set up an IT system that's guaranteed not to work. It's only a matter of time before the whole kit and kaboodle is stripped out and stored for the next ten years in a warehouse somewhere at €350 k a year;)

salamander27

I was just browsing around the eflow site and came across the box where you can pay your unpayed tolls. I put in my UTN in the box and up came my details, name, address, email, car reg, time of passing etc.

So out of curiosity I put in a similar random number and I got somebody elses details quite easily.

You too can try it here
https://csc.eflow.ie/violationprocess/violationSignOn.aspx

This website is seriously lax when it comes to security and privacy. I'm no internet wizard but i have heard of programs that can input numbers into these boxes and collect such data quite easily.
I'm lucky i dont have to use the bridge often but i going to avoid it from now on and go through the city centre like in the good ol days!:rolleyes:

superjosh9

Just opened my post today: a €40 euro fine, on three A4 pages, all from our beloved friends at Barrier-Free tolling. Nice picture of the 940 though!

Now, since I've received 7 pages in total from them over the last week or so, more than anyone else - friends included - well, I'm beginning to think that this is the start of a beautiful relationship...

Thoughts?!

ps. I paid the toll the day after I used it on the 12th. That same day, I was told on the phone that it had gone through. Silly Billys or what?!

Our man in Havana

Hang tight and do nothing.

superjosh9

Bond-007 wrote: »

Hang tight and do nothing.

Maybe I'll send them a postcard from Las Vegas telling them that I'm trying to 'win' back enough money so that I can pay the fine! But that I need time!!

Our man in Havana

superjosh9 wrote: »

Maybe I'll send them a postcard from Las Vegas telling them that I'm trying to 'win' back enough money so that I can pay the fine! But that I need time!!

Roffle!

j2dab

Quick Question - What is the general traffic like on the M50 these days?Between 8 and 10am heading northbound does the traffic start before the toll bridge or after?

and how is the traffic between 4 and 5pm heading southbound?