The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

Seth Brundle

OK, I'm setting this thread up to deal with the forecasted threads on the barrier free tolling system on the M50.
All new queries on the M50 barrier free system are to go into this thread.

If your query is on M50 speed cameras, M50 upgrade works or anything else that is not related to the barrier free tolling system then maybe don't post in this thread!


Background Information
Description of electronic barrier-free tolling
Steel gantries will be erected over the motorway, spanning over the four lanes of each carriageway. There will be no toll plaza or any physical barrier on the road. Cars can travel at normal motorway speeds under the overhead gantries. These gantries will contain all of the vehicle detection and camera equipment required to record the vehicles passing under the gantries. A computer based system linked to the National Vehicle and Driver File then provides the owner details for any vehicles who don't have electronic tags or who haven't a pre-registered payment account.
Location of Toll
The new toll scheme proposes one single tolling point which will be located on the section of the M50 between the N3 (Navan Road) and N4 (Galway Road) Junctions, adjacent to the current WestLink plaza. When it becomes operational, it will replace the existing WestLink toll plaza, which will be removed.

Car Tolls
The car tolls, in line with (CPI), under the new scheme for electronic barrier-free tolling are:
Cars with an electronic tag account €2.00 per journey
Cars with a number plate account, but without tag €2.50 per journey
Cars without either a tag or number plate account €3.00 per journey
Key Points of Proposed Toll Scheme

• People who don't currently have electronic tags can register with any of the five existing operators - details on NRA website http://www.nra.ie/News/eToll/ In addition, the NRA will itself offer a tag service from early next year;
• People who don't wish to have an electronic vehicle tag but who wish to set up a payment account based on the recording of their number plates can, from early next year, register with the NRA's M50 Operator. Whenever they make a journey on the M50, their number plate details will be recorded and the relevant payment debited from their account.
• For people who choose not to have electronic tag accounts or number plate based accounts, the registration number of the vehicle will be recorded when they make a journey along the tolled section of the M50. They can make payment in advance of the journey, on the day of the journey or up to 8.00pm on the day after the journey by any of the following means:

o On-line over the internet;
o Through the 24 hour telephone contact centre being set up by the NRA;
o Through a bill pay system in approx. 2,000 shops and garages.

|Vehicle equipped with an Electronic Tag |Vehicle Pre-registered for Number Plate based Payment Account|All Other Vehicles
Cars | €2.00 | €2.50 |€3.00
Buses and small commercial vehicles up to 2 tonnes| €2.80| €3.30| €3.80
Commercial vehicles between 2 and 10 tonnes | €4.10| €4.60|€5.10
Commercial Vehicles above 10 tonnes| €5.10| €5.60|€6.10source...


Tag Service Providers Using the eToll Interoperability System
A list of companies that provide electronic solutions for the M50 are listed on http://www.nra.ie/News/eToll/#d.en.9155

flanzer

Good sticky. Passed through there earlier on and still no sign of the impending change over. They're having a laugh if this will be done over night

unkel

D-day is August 30th, 2008

peasant

I probably won't be using the M50 tollbridge any time soon. But I reckon, just to be on the safe side, I'll pre-pay one trip for both vehicles I own as soon as this system goes active ...and then I'll sue them all the way to the high court if they don't recognise my pre-payment five or six years down the line (or change the credit to the new car I may have bought in the meantime)

-Chris-

I would presume that the only way to operate this if you're switching cars a lot is to pay €3.00 per use - does anyone know if the reg will be checked against the tag or could you use your tag in any vehicle?

L1011

The tag has to match the reg, otherwise they won't know which vehicle it was in!

Marcus.Aurelius

I've registered with eFlow, who are the NRA I think. Free tag, pay after use account, so none of those stupid top-up thingies.

Account costs €1 per month to maintain, not too bad.

Signed up over the phone, nice guy, made it very simple, tags to be issued mid-Aug. You need to give them your Bank Acc number, which spooked me a little, but everything seems fine at present.

You can use laser too, IIRC. I would have preferred (in retrospect) to have signed up online, just because bank details are needed, feels safer for some reason!

Seth Brundle

Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »

Account costs €1 per month to maintain, not too bad.

What maintenance do they do on the accounts each month?

Alun

kbannon wrote: »

What maintenance do they do on the accounts each month?

Exactly .. money for old rope. They also have the cheek to hold on to the balance that has to be held in the account and earn interest on that too. Maybe they'd like to bill me every month with a detailed breakdown of exactly what "maintenance" they've performed on my account, so that I can decide whether it was worthwhile paying at all :pac:

unkel

kbannon wrote: »

What maintenance do they do on the accounts each month?

This is the reason I have not got any tag yet myself. It is a lot cheaper to maintain the account than to man the booths with staff 24/7. I would have got a tag (even pre-paid) years ago if there was no maintenance charge...

sicruise

Why hasn't the introduction of this system reduced the prices for the toll?

Is there a limit to what they can increase it to before somebody actually says OI YOU NNNNOOOOO!

We get screwed so often in this counrty.

cormie

It's decreased the toll cost for vans from €3.40 to €2.80, which is fine for non Vat Registered folk, but for those who could claim the VAT back on the €3.40, it's still the same. So Kbannon, maybe note that the above prices are at a Vat rate of 0%?

Gone are the days of playing "how low can you go" by handing in a bunch of change that adds up to nowhere near the proper amount and asking is that ok :P

sicruise

Are these lads actually having a laugh...

I just called to register with my Visa and they said that they don't accept credit cards because they get charged for processing them.

So now it has to be a direct debit... grr

zing

unkel wrote: »

This is the reason I have not got any tag yet myself. It is a lot cheaper to maintain the account than to man the booths with staff 24/7. I would have got a tag (even pre-paid) years ago if there was no maintenance charge...

tolltag.ie are offering tags with no monthly maintenance fee - instead they charge you an extra 10% of each toll charge you clock up (so for the M50 you'd pay 2.20 rather than 2.00) and they charge 30 quid for the tag (for their basic service). Could be a good option for infrequent toll users like me.

Saruman

sicruise wrote: »

Are these lads actually having a laugh...

I just called to register with my Visa and they said that they don't accept credit cards because they get charged for processing them.

So now it has to be a direct debit... grr

What about Laser card? There is no fee for that as far as i know.

Either way, i refuse to use the toll bridge unless its absolutely necessary so i have only used it about 3 or 4 times this year, even though i can claim it back in expenses!!

Hellrazer

Just been on to eflow to register a tag and to be honest this lot are a joke.

Ive just been told that each tag must be registered to a unique vehicle and since I dont know what Im going to be driving from one day to the next its next to useless for me.

I thought each tag was registered to a person or "account" and not a vehicle so therefore could be interchanged between cars.Apparently it cant be interchanged at all and can only be used in the vehicle that it was registered to.

It means that if I did register a tag I cant even use it in my wifes car on weekends.

An absolute joke!!!

cormie

That's terrible alright. Maybe one of the other operators allow it?

L1011

None of them *can* allow it.

There is no way the system can tell which car a tag is in without the tag being matched to a registration number. Using an unmatched tag will cause a charge on the tag and to the cars registration plate. Less than ideal but there is no way around this.

The tag also physically attaches to your vehicle, by the way. If you don't attach it, it rarely works at all.

Steve

I know it's been mentioned before but has it been finalised how they are going to cope with foreign vehicles? or are we just going to end up subsidising their free travel.

L1011

They're going to sell the fine "debt" to debt collection agencies to chase up.

spanner_head

sicruise wrote: »

So now it has to be a direct debit... grr

I use eazypass (http://www.eazypass.ie/) and they take debit my credit card every month. You could look into them if direct debit doesn't suit.

Saibh

i might only use the toll once or twice this year and maybe not again for another year or more, can you purchase a once off ticket for each trip or are you still charged a monthly rate to stay registered.

ninty9er

Do the new tags from other operators work on the current Eazy-Pass lane?

WindSock

zing wrote: »

tolltag.ie are offering tags with no monthly maintenance fee - instead they charge you an extra 10% of each toll charge you clock up (so for the M50 you'd pay 2.20 rather than 2.00) and they charge 30 quid for the tag (for their basic service). Could be a good option for infrequent toll users like me.

This one might suit me better as I don't use the toll all that often. But €30 for the tag seems a bit much. Are they all around this price to purchase?

dodgyme

SteveC wrote: »

are we just going to end up subsidising their free travel.

yes the the simple answer.

Hellrazer

Newstalk are doing an article on it someday this week or so I was told.Theres uproar in the motor industry,hire car industry and haulage companies regarding this but so far the NRA havent been called to task over it.Theyre tallking it up like its the best thing ever which it isnt.

MYOB wrote: »

None of them *can* allow it.

There is no way the system can tell which car a tag is in without the tag being matched to a registration number. Using an unmatched tag will cause a charge on the tag and to the cars registration plate. Less than ideal but there is no way around this.

The tag also physically attaches to your vehicle, by the way. If you don't attach it, it rarely works at all.

VERYinterested

Saibh wrote: »

i might only use the toll once or twice this year and maybe not again for another year or more, can you purchase a once off ticket for each trip or are you still charged a monthly rate to stay registered.

Here is Independent advice for people, like myself, that use it 5 or 6 times a year. Disgracefully it means I will pay €2.50 every time I go through, but it's cheaper than any of the tag options.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/m50-toll-tag-prices-compared.html

Alun

MYOB wrote: »

None of them *can* allow it.

There is no way the system can tell which car a tag is in without the tag being matched to a registration number. Using an unmatched tag will cause a charge on the tag and to the cars registration plate. Less than ideal but there is no way around this.

That makes no sense at all. If the system is always going to read the registration plate anyway, then what on earth is the point of the tag? Why not just charge the registered owner of the reg plate and not bother with tags at all? And what the hell does it matter what car the tag is in .. they get their money regardless.

zing

WindSock wrote: »

This one might suit me better as I don't use the toll all that often. But €30 for the tag seems a bit much. Are they all around this price to purchase?

They've also an option of free tag, 10% surcharge on tolls but with min balances, min top up balances etc.. (most of the others have minimum balances/top ups so that's nothing new). That way it's EUR 40 per car/tag initially but if you're an infrequent user then you won't need to worry about topping up for some time.

However the 10% surcharge mightn't be too bad now but you've got to think about potential toll charge increases and more toll roads being introduced around the country. e.g. I use the N4/M4/N6/M6 far more often than I'd use the M50 toll and with a proposed toll due on the new N6 from Ballinasloe to Galway (whenever it opens) you'd probably be looking at 40 - 50c on top of the tolls on that route. At that stage a return trip to Galway would almost equal the costs of the 1 EUR monthly fees most of the others charge. Of course you could just make sure you've the necessary change on those other routes but I can imagine that once you get a tag you'll stop worrying about having the correct change in the car.

For the very infrequent M50 user the vehicle reg system seems to be the way to go. For the very frequent M50 user a tag is defo the way to go. For those in the middle tag seems to be the way to go but it's down to which operators admin fees suits you best.

Also note that Easypass & PassDirect both appear to be the only ones that allow you to have 1 or 2 tags per account (i.e. per EUR 1 monthly fee) - that's particularly handy for families with 2 cars in/around Dublin. From what I can see the rest charge you per tag.

unkel

Alun wrote: »

That makes no sense at all. If the system is always going to read the registration plate anyway, then what on earth is the point of the tag?

My guess is you need the tag because it will work on all other toll roads in the country* (that have no license plate recognition system in place - yet)

*possibly a precondition the government set when allowing companies to sell tolls / tags - I'm speculating here

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?t=12303

join the revolution lol ^^

Seth Brundle

cormie wrote: »

It's decreased the toll cost for vans from €3.40 to €2.80, which is fine for non Vat Registered folk, but for those who could claim the VAT back on the €3.40, it's still the same. So Kbannon, maybe note that the above prices are at a Vat rate of 0%?

I thought they were required by (EU) law to charge VAT?!?!

JayeL

I was going to get an eFlow tag til I read about eTrip, which is normally 30 plus another 36 for credit but they have a pretty good deal for AA members. eTrip tags work in QPark car parks as well and according to the AA website, you get 25 of free credit with the tag. The tag costs 27 for AA members so if you use the extra 25 credit, you essentially just pay 2 for the tag. The free credit runs out on 31/12/08 but I reckon I'll use it one way or another by then.

They haven't mentioned/promoted it much and it seems like a good deal if you park in town a lot.

mcwhirter

Do any of the tag providers accept direct debit/laser payments at the end of the month rather then keeping an account in credit?

cormie

Is the credit only usable for parking? My van can never fit under car park barriers so even though I'm with the AA, it'd be useless for me I wonder if you're with the AA now and join, once the year is up (if it's done per year?) do you have to prove you're still with AA on renewal?

Terrlock

I'm up for one hell of a big protest!!.

Its ridicolous putting in all these toll charges.

And the rate at which they go up is crazy.

I heard its costing a fortune too implement this new tolling system. They won't even be making much of a profit on it.

There is no decent transport system in Dublin, The buses are useless. They all go towards the city centre instead of where people need them too go.

They government need a good kick up the arse and things need too change.

If we just allow all this I bet the toll charges will be gone up too 3 - 4 euro next year.

I think its high time we mounted a big protest. I'm all in for it.
We are far too accepting and passive in this country....

They're better ways to do things. And I also think the government need to answer for why they had to pay 600million too buyout the toll operators.

Who ever made that deal in the first place should be locked up.

tubos

Only thought about this after reading this thread... I have an eazyass that I got years ago. I presume I gave them the reg of my car when I registered, but have changed my car since but still have the tag which is currently not a problem, but it would seem that it will be a problem for the barrier free tolling!!

As a previous poster mentioned, if they can read the car registration plates, why need a tag as well!!?? Surely we could just setup an account based on our number plate.

JayeL

cormie wrote: »

Is the credit only usable for parking? My van can never fit under car park barriers so even though I'm with the AA, it'd be useless for me I wonder if you're with the AA now and join, once the year is up (if it's done per year?) do you have to prove you're still with AA on renewal?

I thought that too, that it was only for parking so I was gonna get an eFlow. But I called them yesterday and they said that the full 25 free credit is for use on either tolls or parking in QPark.

JayeL

tubos wrote: »

Only thought about this after reading this thread... I have an eazyass that I got years ago. I presume I gave them the reg of my car when I registered, but have changed my car since but still have the tag which is currently not a problem, but it would seem that it will be a problem for the barrier free tolling!!

As a previous poster mentioned, if they can read the car registration plates, why need a tag as well!!?? Surely we could just setup an account based on our number plate.

You can, it's called a video account but it only works for the M50 and will cost 2.50 per crossing, 50c more than with a tag.

Marcus.Aurelius

This €1 per month maintenance fee is probably to recoup the cost of the tag itself. (Although, with the plate readers, will they even bother reading the tag?)

I can't stand the idea of paying to drive on a building site, that we've paid for already with PAYE taxes.

The tax man

mcwhirter wrote: »

Do any of the tag providers accept direct debit/laser payments at the end of the month rather then keeping an account in credit?

eFlow let you pay DD by laser and have a post-pay option. That's what I set up with them. Toll charges for the month are taken in the first week of the following month.

L1011

Alun wrote: »

That makes no sense at all. If the system is always going to read the registration plate anyway, then what on earth is the point of the tag? Why not just charge the registered owner of the reg plate and not bother with tags at all? And what the hell does it matter what car the tag is in .. they get their money regardless.

Tags work on other toll roads - and also gives them the cash there and then rather than having to possibly chase people down for reg plates.

I've no idea why the 'video registration' is surcharged so much over tags, though.

Greenmachine

Apperently motorcycle will be excempt. About time. The 8pm next day rule is bull if you don't have an account what if you are off on holidays with your car in long term at Dublin airport.

ART6

Terrlock wrote: »

I'm up for one hell of a big protest!!.

Its ridicolous putting in all these toll charges.

And the rate at which they go up is crazy.

I heard its costing a fortune too implement this new tolling system. They won't even be making much of a profit on it.

There is no decent transport system in Dublin, The buses are useless. They all go towards the city centre instead of where people need them too go.

They government need a good kick up the arse and things need too change.

If we just allow all this I bet the toll charges will be gone up too 3 - 4 euro next year.

I think its high time we mounted a big protest. I'm all in for it.
We are far too accepting and passive in this country....

They're better ways to do things. And I also think the government need to answer for why they had to pay 600million too buyout the toll operators.

Who ever made that deal in the first place should be locked up.

I've posted this before, but can't resist doing so again....The bridge cost €38 millions to build. NTR then got 17years of tolls out of it before being bought out with €600 millions of our money. Now we pay even higher tolls since our wonderful politicians got control of it. If I went into Tesco for a loaf of bread and found that I had to pay another €3 to get through the checkout, the same politicians would be screaming about exploitation of the people. Yes, we are far too passive and accepting. We should all be writing to local TDs and making it very plain that not a single damned one of them gets a vote in future as long as there are tolls on any of the roads we have paid for many times over already.

Steve

The tax man wrote: »

eFlow let you pay DD by laser and have a post-pay option. That's what I set up with them. Toll charges for the month are taken in the first week of the following month.

That's the one I'd use - is there a non maintenance charge?


Maybe related to this but I was driving behind a car yesterday morning when it started raining. As normal I flick on the dipped headlights and lo and behold his number plate becomes unreadable - total white out. Couldn't believe it.

If people got organised and almost everyone went through it one the first day without paying they would be royally screwed. That would be thousands.

VIVA LA REVUCION!

Seth Brundle

ART6 wrote: »

I've posted this before, but can't resist doing so again....The bridge cost €38 millions to build. NTR then got 17years of tolls out of it before being bought out with €600 millions of our money. Now we pay even higher tolls since our wonderful politicians got control of it. If I went into Tesco for a loaf of bread and found that I had to pay another €3 to get through the checkout, the same politicians would be screaming about exploitation of the people. Yes, we are far too passive and accepting. We should all be writing to local TDs and making it very plain that not a single damned one of them gets a vote in future as long as there are tolls on any of the roads we have paid for many times over already.

Whilst I'm loathe to pay the toll and only use the bridge when absolutely necessary, I do accept the fact that the toll was put in place by a private company who developed a section of road (M50 from N3 to N4) as well as the bridge when the government hadn't the money and possibly the will to do it!
Your reference to a loaf of bread in Tesco isn't really valid as you know how much you will pay for the toll before you have to use the bridge (unlike your analogy of a sudden price rise on the pan loaf).

L1011

SteveC wrote: »

Maybe related to this but I was driving behind a car yesterday morning when it started raining. As normal I flick on the dipped headlights and lo and behold his number plate becomes unreadable - total white out. Couldn't believe it.

There are coatings, etc, people can put on plates that make them glare up in direct light. These are completely illegal in this country and anyone seen with them by the Guards (which is anyone who ever drives in front of a cop car) will be dealt with suitably.

The tax man

SteveC wrote: »

That's the one I'd use - is there a non maintenance charge?

There is indeed a non maintenance charge.:mad:

Steve

MYOB wrote: »

There are coatings, etc, people can put on plates that make them glare up in direct light. These are completely illegal in this country and anyone seen with them by the Guards (which is anyone who ever drives in front of a cop car) will be dealt with suitably.

I've seen the coated ones, they are generally visibly to the human eye but not to cameras because of the wavelength they reflect - this wasn't like that at all, it was a total whiteout as soon as I turned the lights on.
I'm sure if they ever end end up with a Garda car behind them they're screwed.

Steve

The tax man wrote: »

There is indeed a non maintenance charge.:mad:

/sigh