Abortion

Stheno

panda100 wrote: »

Please say you dont use this terminology wth your patients!!!

Normal doctor consultation: Did you have unprotected sex last night?
Dr Tallaght consulatation: So did you ride her bareback last night ?

Lol @ panda

Sorry but on the serious side, myself I would be pro choice but I do think that late abortions (probably post 20 weeks) are something that needs to be addressed at 23/24 weeks many foetuses are viable.

I'm kind of surprised no one has brought up the subject of when women choose to have abortions as a result of not realising they are pregnant it can happen that women do not realise for months that they are pregnant, now how that happens is beyond me, but one does hear of people not realising they are pregnant.

Iago

When I was 15 I got my gf pregnant. She had a baby boy a couple of months after I turned 16. I wouldn't change my son for the world, but I'd sure as hell change the circumstances around his conception and life to date if I could. My son has just turned 15, and one of my biggest fears is that he'll walk into the house one day and tell me he's gotten a girl pregnant.

I'm pro-choice, and I believe that if there are people out there who get pregnant, regardless of protection used and don't want a child then they should terminate the pregnancy. There are too many people in the world who have children for the wrong reasons or without really wanting them, these children can have very difficult lives which then influences the lives of their children in turn.

In my opinion life itself is more than hard enough without adding additional stress and pressure to it, if people are struggling financially in their lives, if they are in a relationship that isn't rock-solid, if they are still living with their parents and educating/starting out in their careers then a baby could be the worst thing that happens to them.

I look around myself at the moment and I see friends/family having children but with no real concept of what that entails. They think it's all smiles and playtime. Being a parent is hard, probably the hardest thing I've ever done to be honest. You have this person, that relies on you completely, that looks up to you and watches everything you do and tries to replicate it. You can't afford to have downtime when they're around, you have to watch what you say and what you do. You have to put everything you want to the back of your mind until you ensure that they have everything they need.

If you aren't willing to dedicate everything you have to bringing those children up, then you shouldn't have them in the first place. Stopping people having abortions is just compunding their original mistake, if they don't want that child then what life are you setting it up for?

Abortion should be legalised, better that than the legions of kids in this country that are already growing up unloved, unwanted and left running wild.

Taylieboo

I am in favour of abortion. It should be an option to women if they want/need it. I know 50% of my friends have travelled to the UK. It is the womens choice and she knows best what is best for her.

I am most definatley pro-choice.

No, I have never had an abortion.
Yes, I do know women who'v had one.
And, yes.. If I were to become pregnant tomorrow.. I would, without a doubt in the world.. get an abortion.

gcgirl

Thaedydal wrote: »

Some people are not in the place to be able do that and buying a drug via the internet or trying old wifes tales or doing a Nancy with a coat hanger is what they choose in their desperation.

I have heard of some one using a Darning needle!

Abortion is not black and white theres plenty of grey! I am pro choice myself but sometimes i do feel guilty, 14/13 years ago i was pro abortion but then my little sister arrived early at 24 weeks gastation i was 21 at the time but it totally changed my out look she was perfect in every way and fought for 6 months before she died she went through so much and when i found out that i was pregnant back in 2000 with my first there was no question at all of getting rid of it later that year(i was about 7 months gone at the time) a friend had got pregnant and i had to help her sort out her own abortion I had to go to the well woman center with her for councilling Pre and post termination then another couple of years another friend had to get termination(she suffer bad pnd plus her relationship with her now ex was v rocky) It should be allowed in this country but my own thought that there should be a time limit on terminations!

gcgirl

nouggatti wrote: »

Lol @ panda

Sorry but on the serious side, myself I would be pro choice but I do think that late abortions (probably post 20 weeks) are something that needs to be addressed at 23/24 weeks many foetuses are viable.

I'm kind of surprised no one has brought up the subject of when women choose to have abortions as a result of not realising they are pregnant it can happen that women do not realise for months that they are pregnant, now how that happens is beyond me, but one does hear of people not realising they are pregnant.

On all 3 of my pregnacies i knew from the word go that i was pregnant your body tells you completely esp when he/she is moving around and kicking in your stomach! Sometimes i think people are in denial about being pregnant!

The_Minister

Taylieboo wrote: »

I am in favour of abortion. It should be an option to women if they want/need it. I know 50% of my friends have travelled to the UK. It is the womens choice and she knows best what is best for her.

50%? Really? 1-in-2 of your friends has had an abortion?

For Christmas buy them all a box of johnnies.

rainbow kirby

I am pro-choice and always have been - I believe that having the option to abort without having to travel abroad for it should be in place. The current laws in this country are absolutely ridiculous.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

John Mason

Taylieboo wrote: »

I am in favour of abortion. It should be an option to women if they want/need it. I know 50% of my friends have travelled to the UK. It is the womens choice and she knows best what is best for her.

i know 10 people who have had abortions but i am sure the number is much higher

No-one here has the right to judge anyone else unless they have been in the situation of an unplanned pregnancy.

no-one has the right to go mouthing off that abortion is wrong, you never know who is sitting beside you at the time struggle with a decision they have made or are trying to make

this is a very emotive situation and everyone has their own opinions but sometimes you should just learn to STFU and keep them to yourself

eveie

very good thread its good to see peoples points of views on this subject.
i am actively involved in the pro-life movement.
pro-choice is pro abortion, if it were really pro choice they would suggest other alternatives.
i feel it should be known that these so called "family plannin" clinics make massive profits from abortion, also abortion is the only medical procedure where the doctor/surgeon does not have to tell the women the whole truth because it may be too disturbing to the women.
no body has the right to take a life, a child is a miracle, i know there are situations where it can be extremly difficult for a women to have a child but i have never heard an excuse worthy of deaming abortion "the best option"
these family planning clinics may seem to have the womens best interests at heart but its ALL about profit, they make billions every yr from it, abortion is an up front payement. i think it will be a very sad day when and if abortion is legalised in this country, if we cannot look after the most vunerable people then we have alot to answer for.
when a women who wants a baby becomes pregnant she says "im having a baby" on the other had when its an unwanted pregnancy she says
"its just a blob"
also the argument that the child will not be wanted and will possibly fase mental and physical abuse is ridiclous, it is proven that physical abuse of children has risen in every country that has legalised abortion, if we dont have respect for an unborn child its unlikely we'l have respect for a child.

eveie

"No-one here has the right to judge anyone else unless they have been in the situation of an unplanned pregnancy." quote from irishbird


i have had a few friends that have opted for an abortion however if the conversation ever comes up they know where i stand i do not feel that i have to stay quite about my beliefs because of their choices, if that was the case then why would i want to listen to someone who's pro-choice
the reason this conversation rarley comes up and is taboo is becuase abortion is wrong, if you truely believe that abortion is ok then someone who has had an abortion wouldnt mind hearing my point of view, the reason they dont however is because they feel guilt, the reason they feel this is because deep down they know they've done wrong.

this is not me judging then although it may sound like it is, i have know people who have been raped and have had that child and put the child up for adoption i also know a girl who had an abortion because she didnt want to ruin her figure, now please someone try and give me a reason why that would be deemed ok

meglome

I'd be pro-choice although I don't imagine it's an easy choice to make for most people. But whatever anyone in this country feels about abortion pretending it doesn't happen by having people go to our nearest neighbours to have one is completely wrong. We cannot stop people having abortions so we should let them happen in our own country and make sure there is proper counselling for everyone before and after. Seriously when you can get a flight to Britain for 1 cent at times effectively we already have abortion but without the support.

An awful lot of the discussion about this seems to go along religious lines. For me if someone is in the early stages of pregnancy then I see no moral issue. At that stage all you've got is a blob of cells that will eventually grow into baby.

Malari

eveie wrote: »

"No-one here has the right to judge anyone else unless they have been in the situation of an unplanned pregnancy." quote from irishbird


i have had a few friends that have opted for an abortion however if the conversation ever comes up they know where i stand i do not feel that i have to stay quite about my beliefs because of their choices, if that was the case then why would i want to listen to someone who's pro-choice
the reason this conversation rarley comes up and is taboo is becuase abortion is wrong, if you truely believe that abortion is ok then someone who has had an abortion wouldnt mind hearing my point of view, the reason they dont however is because they feel guilt, the reason they feel this is because deep down they know they've done wrong.

this is not me judging then although it may sound like it is, i have know people who have been raped and have had that child and put the child up for adoption i also know a girl who had an abortion because she didnt want to ruin her figure, now please someone try and give me a reason why that would be deemed ok

The reason it's taboo is because it's contraversial, not because it's wrong. YOU think it's wrong and you have every right to state your case - I think it's acceptable, though. If a woman does not want to go through with a pregnancy she shouldn't have to, without being told adoption is a viable alternative. I certainly wouldn't want to lose my figure, incubate a baby for 9 months and go through all that hardship of pregnancy and giving up a child, worry about it trying to find it's biological mother at some point...I don't feel guilt about this and if a conversation comes up I'll defend myself against anyone who claims I'm "wrong"

girl_friday

Thaedydal wrote: »

We don't have open adoption in this country.
Once a child is given up for adoption you don't get to hear or see them again until they come looking for you at the age of 18.

Adoption doesn't happen right away the infant is placed into foster care in the mean time while an adoption is arranged and we have such a sever shortage of foster places that the extended family of the mother often get asked to foster the child. Often the family of the mother will shame the mother into keeping the child or insist on fostering the child against her wishes and currently the system here promotes keeping the 'family' together.

LolaDub wrote: »

We do have open adoption in Ireland, you can make an agreement to see the baby up to three times a year, receive news and letters from them etc. Unfortunately this is a private agreement and not a legally standing contract so the adoptive parents can go back on it and its very difficult for the birth mother to exercise her rights here.The adoptive system first goes to the birth mothers family about the adoption as they see being with the birth family as being best for the child and want to give the father/grandparents a choice in losing a child that is something to them also.

I work in the area of fostering and adoption. Obviously I cannot speak for everywhere but in my area what Thaedydal is saying about children being placed in foster care is not the case. We would never ask a member of the extended family to take a child in this circumstance. That would be completely unfair on the birth parents and on the extended family themselves.

In addition to this in my experience is much the same as LolaDub's in that keeping some level of communication going post adoption is promoted. We all recognise that the methods of the olden days damaged those involved and do not want to see such practices continuing!! One family I am involved with has free reign to send parcels and gifts over and back as they want... both sides met prior to the adoption and as far as I am aware once post adoption to put the birth mum's mind at ease. It all goes through social workers which I'm sure some people would object to but its a means of protecting all involved and providing emotional support. Whilst it isn't legally binding both sides have stuck to the agreement so far and I can't see that changing any time soon!

Dudess wrote: »

No, pro-choice can apply to those who wouldn't have an abortion themselves but are in favour of others having that option.

NOTE - The following is upsetting:
I read a letter by a doctor to The Irish Times (seemingly with no agenda - he wasn't writing on behalf of Youth Defence or some other nut jobs) in which he outlined his experience as a medical student in the UK. Abortion was just a medical procedure to him until one particular case to which he was witness. This was a very, very late termination - I can't remember the exact time frame but it was around the 25-week mark. And he said it haunted him because the baby was still alive and was wriggling and he said it looked just like a miscarried baby or a premature one. His view changed from that moment on.

My ex's little sister had a baby last year having just found out she was pregnant at 22 weeks and going into labour within days! Her baby still has some medical needs but is a source of joy to all around!! Yes there were some tough times and there will be in the future but this was a very much viable life born at a stage where it could still have been aborted. I am very much pro-choice although I know abortion would never be the best option for me and this baby has really opened my eyes to even more of the issues!

WindSock wrote: »

I'd be interested to know how many staunch Pro-Life supporters changed their attitudes when they realised they themselves were up the duff?

I once saw on a toilet cubicle wall the quote: "abortion is a hypothetical issue which can never be truly reflected on by men as they will never find themselves in that position" and have to say I couldn't agree with it more!! I would have erred on the side of being pro-life until I found myself in a dreadful predicament at a rather young age. When faced with the options I really did consider abortion for my physical, emotional and mental well-being... I then decided against it but in the end nature took the choice away from me... Really opened my mind to the predicament people can be in when they make all sorts of decisions and overall made me a lot less judgemental!!

tallaght01 wrote: »

This thread reminded me of when my flatmate had an oul one night special with some girl he met in a club about a year ago. They had unprotected sex in our flat, and he wanted to get the morning after pill for her.

Was the girl in question being given an option?? Its great that you and your friend were able to make sure the girl received it so promptly if indeed it is what she wanted.

Recently a friend of mine was in the GPs when a girl came out in tears. She had young children and she and her OH had a mishap with a condom the night before and she was looking for the MAP as they weren't in a position to support an addition to the family. The doctor refused to give it to her and told her to go elsewhere as she had moral and ethical objections to it!! ironic thing was that apparently she didn't have moral or ethical objections to taking the girls money so the poor girl was left that she was broke too and couldn't go to another GP as she couldn't pay!! I was appalled but not overly shocked given past performances of this particular GP even though she is a young woman herself!! I'm guessing she has never found herself in such a predicament or she'd show more sympathy!!

tallaght01 wrote: »

He's a bandit for going bareback all the time.

The girl has responsibility too!! Contraception and protection against STDs and STIs is an issue for both parties involved!!

Sorry for rambling!!

JC 2K3

eveie wrote: »

i also know a girl who had an abortion because she didnt want to ruin her figure, now please someone try and give me a reason why that would be deemed ok

Because it's not a person, it's a clump of cells that might potentially grow into a person in the right conditions. Just because it has human DNA and looks like a baby in the later stages doesn't mean it's inherently sacred.

Nevyn

girl_friday wrote: »

I work in the area of fostering and adoption. Obviously I cannot speak for everywhere but in my area what Thaedydal is saying about children being placed in foster care is not the case. We would never ask a member of the extended family to take a child in this circumstance. That would be completely unfair on the birth parents and on the extended family themselves.

I know of 3 cases where it has happened, I wishs it wasn't the case but it is,
but I am glad to hear it is not 'policy'.

Flojo

Pro choice here too - I dont get why other people get to decide what you do with your body! I'm all for bringing it into Ireland..
Although one thing I will not agree with is women getting babies aborted just because they are born with cleft palates and the like.

Malari

Flojo wrote: »

Pro choice here too - I dont get why other people get to decide what you do with your body! I'm all for bringing it into Ireland..
Although one thing I will not agree with is women getting babies aborted just because they are born with cleft palates and the like.

I agree, but they are separate issues I think. Women who never wanted to get pregnant and have an abortion are usually doing it for very different reasons than women who would like a baby and decide that it's not as perfect as they would like, so abort.

buckieburd

ntlbell wrote: »

What about all the other options before she gets pregnant?

What is she gets raped, should she have to carry the baby then? Sorry I didnt read through the rest of the thread too long someone else has probably asked this!

Flojo

Malari wrote: »

I agree, but they are separate issues I think. Women who never wanted to get pregnant and have an abortion are usually doing it for very different reasons than women who would like a baby and decide that it's not as perfect as they would like, so abort.

I wasn't following any previous posts, I was commenting on abortion in general and thats the issue I had with it. All under the same header like....

Nevyn

eveie wrote: »

very good thread its good to see peoples points of views on this subject. i am actively involved in the pro-life movement.

ok.

eveie wrote: »

pro-choice is pro abortion,

Nope.

eveie wrote: »

if it were really pro choice they would suggest other alternatives.

Please show how I am not properly pro choice ?
How do you know what information I have passed on to women over the last 15 years ?
How do you know what options are discussed at a crises pregnancy session ?

eveie wrote: »

i feel it should be known that these so called "family plannin" clinics make massive profits from abortion,

None of the family planning clinics in this country make money from abortions and the maire stopes foundation and BPAS are charities and do not make profits.

So please give me some clear examples ?

eveie wrote: »

these family planning clinics may seem to have the womens best interests at heart but its ALL about profit, they make billions every yr from it, abortion is an up front payement.

This type of rethoric is right wing evangelical Christian spiel which usually is heard from americans and several of them have been funding groups here.

Which group are you active in ?
And how is it funded and by whom ?

Do you any idea how planned parenting works in the usa works ?

eveie wrote: »

also the argument that the child will not be wanted and will possibly fase mental and physical abuse is ridiclous, it is proven that physical abuse of children has risen in every country that has legalised abortion, if we dont have respect for an unborn child its unlikely we'l have respect for a child.

Really have you seen how children are treated in this country ?
Do you know the % of children effected by child poverty ?
Do you know how that effects them ?
Do you know if Ireland has ratified the UN charter on child rigths ?
Do you know if it is illegal to leave a child at home alone ?
Do you know about the lack of facilities for wayward and at risk children ?

Pro choice is not anti child.
Funny how many people who say they are pro life, pro the unborn child aren't actually pro children who are born and need people to work on their behalf. Seriously of 50% of the time and effort over the last 20 years were used in the abortion campaigning from both sides all children in this country would be better of and have better services
and we would have out of hours social care and worker for children at risk.

A_M101

I made the decision a long time ago that if I was ever to get pregnant I would never abort as I thought it was wrong.

Almost a year ago my friend fell pregnant and being pro-abortion was absolutely decided upon it. She didn't want to tell her parents and being the only one in a position to go to England with her, I did. She was a mess, father unknown and kept ignoring the organisation of the trip. Through my help she got herself together and got over there with about 15 weeks gone.

After all of this I became pro-choice. There will always be ways and means for those who really wish to abort and for this reason the support and the structure should be there so they don't have to make the traumatic visit abroad. My personal beliefs on abortion haven't changed and I myself was deeply disturbed by the trip and the loss of life in the clinic that day.

Sugar Drunk

for me if I was unlucky enought to get pregnant abortion would be the only option. I have always felt this way and have discussed with the Bf and he agrees.
Its a debate that there will always be two sides to but my body is my own and my choices are my own to make.

Dragan

Could i just ask what the pro life movment is?

I assume it's the "we don't want YOU to be able to make your own choice" movement?

JC 2K3

I would have assumed it meant they equated abortion with infantcide, and therefore opposed it.

I mean, if you're against infantcide, I wouldn't think it fair to call that stance unreasonable because you're for restricting people from making their own choice about what they do to their children.

eveie

the pro-life movement is all about choices, whereas pro-choice is just pro-abortion.
the majority of abortions are carried out with pregnancies over 16 weeks, so therefore it is not just a group of cells. there are cases when a surgeon has preformed operations on the un born child and in order to do this they have sedated the child.....why would they do this???? because the child can feel pain simple as, yet an abortionist will disect its body parts or inject ink into the unborn child, now please someone tell me how that is humaine? in my opinion it is sick.
you can raise the question of what if the pregnancy occured through rape etc but a VERY small precentage of women become pregnant from rape, only something like 2% of abortions are due to rape, why not deal with the real reasons.babies are aborted because the have cleft palates, or mild disabilities what does that say about our society? one pro-choice advocate said that all children should be aborted if they have a disability, this man is gay and was asked how would he feel if a gene was found which could tell if a child was gay or not and due to this thousands of babies were aborted because they carried this gene, in many countries being gay is some sort of a disability( i wan to state that i have nothing against gays what so ever but im just trying to make a point)
also they are many pro-choicers who believe that a parent/parents have the right to kill their child within a few months of it being born because it is not an independant being.
if you point is.....its my body.....its feeding off me well then surely you would believe that its ok to kill a born child, its still feeding off you and completely depends on you for life.
the trouble with legalising abortion is a bigger matter then what is right and what is wrong, if its legalised where does this all stop. in countries that have legalised it, unwanted pregancies have grown, teenage pregancys have grown, child abuse has grown, the problem is not being solved.
also in these countries there are still illegal abortion clinics, just because something is mage legal does not mean that there wont be any back alley clinics.
also the argument that it is me body and il do what i want with it and i dont want my figure to be ruined is actually hilarious considering there is a direct link between abortions and an increased chance of cancer, increased chance of sever depression. to be pregnant and have a baby is the most natural thing for a women to do, to abort a child is completely unnatural. we are humans what distincts us from other animals is that we have a onscience so please use it.
i would say to anyone thats on the fence about this matter to really look at both sides and the facts and then make your mind up but do not base your belief from bad sources and then make up your mind.
but it is not just your body there is a human being there with a completely different dna which distincts your body from theirs.
i have not once brought religion into my argument this is not about religion it is about whats right and whats wrong.
i have personal experience with abortion referral clinics, i have seen what they do, abortion does not solve any problems, if you truel believe that it does then you are mislead.
do you think its ok for a women to have numerous abortions, like 6 or 7? this happens all the time.
i also want to make a point that i think this thread is very against pro-life, i could take personal offence of someone being pro-choice yet it is always the other way around, i and every other poster are entitled to their opinion weather it be pro-life or pro-choice but there is alot of bias here

Zaph

eveie wrote: »

i also want to make a point that i think this thread is very against pro-life, i could take personal offence of someone being pro-choice yet it is always the other way around, i and every other poster are entitled to their opinion weather it be pro-life or pro-choice but there is alot of bias here

I think that's very much a function of the demographic using this forum as anything else. If you have a forum such as this full of well urban, educated, independent and generally young individuals the vast majority are going to be hold more liberal ideals and are therefore more likely to be pro-choice. If the demographic was more rural and older and therefore more likely to be religious and/or conservative you'd have a more pro-life bias. I don't think there's anything more than that to it, but I do agree that both sides are entitled to thei ropinion.

The_Minister

Dragan wrote: »

Could i just ask what the pro life movment is?

I assume it's the "we don't want YOU to be able to make your own choice" movement?

Or, in a less inflamatory way it's a "We know that you don't think it has rights or life, but we think it does, and you can't just kill it or pull it out like a rotten tooth" movement.

Liberalism is great, but if there is a disagreement about who human rights apply to (be it black people and slavery or foeti (?) and abortion) then you can't just say "oh its none of your business". If someone truely believes that a foetus is a baby, and then lets abortion be legal without question, then they are just like the Germans who kept quiet during the Holocaust (in that there was a dispute over humanity and they didn't make any noise). The it's none of your beeswax doesn't apply to abortion, because your asking people to stand by and let what amounts to murder (in their eyes) be committed, and no decent person will do that.

NOTE: I don't believe abortion = murder, I just think that pretending that objecting to abortion is the same as objecting say, pornography, is childish. If people look at a foetus and see human life, then they have a duty to object to its destruction.

Nevyn

eveie wrote: »

the pro-life movement is all about choices, whereas pro-choice is just pro-abortion.

Please proof this.

You still not have answered any of my other questions.

eveie wrote: »

the majority of abortions are carried out with pregnancies over 16 weeks,

Where are you getting your data from ?
What study ?
Carried out in what country ?

The current statistics in the Uk are

88% of abortions were carried out at under 13 weeks gestation; 60% were at under 10 weeks

Which is taken from www.dh.gov.uk/en/publicationsandstatistics/

eveie wrote: »

why not deal with the real reasons.babies are aborted

cos women have automny over thier bodies and no long wish to be pregnant ?

eveie wrote: »

this man is gay and was asked how would he feel if a gene was found which could tell if a child was gay or not and due to this thousands of babies were aborted because they carried this gene, in many countries being gay is some sort of a disability( i wan to state that i have nothing against gays what so ever but im just trying to make a point)

What a straw man.

eveie wrote: »

also they are many pro-choicers who believe that a parent/parents have the right to kill their child within a few months of it being born because it is not an independant being.

Please proof your statement as being more then demonising people who do not agree with you and poisoning the well.

eveie wrote: »

the trouble with legalising abortion is a bigger matter then what is right and what is wrong, if its legalised where does this all stop. in countries that have legalised it, unwanted pregancies have grown, teenage pregancys have grown, child abuse has grown, the problem is not being solved.

Yep.
Seem most of the pro lifers who are catholic and don't believe in the choices of parents who wish to have sexual and contraception education in schools and better acces to those who wish to use contraception.

eveie wrote: »

also in these countries there are still illegal abortion clinics, just because something is mage legal does not mean that there wont be any back alley clinics.

eveie wrote: »

and i dont want my figure to be ruined is actually hilarious

NO one here has said this, again is an agruement deployed by right wing american evangelical christian movements, say you never did say what pro life group you are invovled in and how they are funded.

eveie wrote: »

considering there is a direct link between abortions and an increased chance of cancer,

Cite your references and do not scare monger.

eveie wrote: »

increased chance of sever depression.

Same chances as those who suffer miscarriages and have no support and don't get help.

eveie wrote: »

to be pregnant and have a baby is the most natural thing for a women to do,

I gather you have not had kids then ?
Trust me there is a whole heap of things which happen when you are pregnant, give birth and afterwards which do not feel 'most natural'.

eveie wrote: »

to abort a child is completely unnatural.

Actually women's bodies natural abort non viable zygotes, it is why a woman may conceive and not ever be pregnant as the zygote does not implant and the womans body rejects it, most miscarriages are natural abortions.

If a woman is 2 weeks pregnant and drinks a lot of raspberry leaf tea is that
a natural abortion ?

eveie wrote: »

we are humans what distincts us from other animals is that we have a onscience so please use it.

we have the right to self determine also.

eveie wrote: »

i would say to anyone thats on the fence about this matter to really look at both sides and the facts and then make your mind up but do not base your belief from bad sources

Any chance of you referencing any of your sources any time soon ?

eveie wrote: »

is about whats right and whats wrong.

Which is a matter of morals true and they are personal.

eveie wrote: »

i have personal experience with abortion referral clinics, i have seen what they do, abortion does not solve any problems, if you truel believe that it does then you are mislead.

I too have had experience with them and have traveled with people and I know several young women who having an abortion did solve some of their problems but no one ever has a problem free life.

eveie wrote: »

do you think its ok for a women to have numerous abortions, like 6 or 7? this happens all the time.

Really again please cite your reference for this, have you a link to a report ?

reports from uk state that it is women who have had repeat abortions have had 3/4.
http://www.abortionreview.org/index.php/site/article/74/

eveie wrote: »

i also want to make a point that i think this thread is very against pro-life, i could take personal offence of someone being pro-choice yet it is always the other way around, i and every other poster are entitled to their opinion weather it be pro-life or pro-choice but there is alot of bias here

Why say pro life ?
Why not say anti abortion ?

Pro life is a loaded term for a lot of people due the fact that people who state they are that tend to be religious, anti contraception, anti sex before marriage and are bigoted in a lot of ways.

Anyone who has had to suffer the 'charming' Pro Life protestors in this country will be biased.