Abortion

Wibbs

MJOR wrote: »

I think the damage caused by giving birth and raising a child that you don't want or love is a lot worse.

Very true. On all sides.

Zaph

Wibbs wrote: »

Point taken Zaph, though this subject head and shoulders above others invites this or at least doesn't get very far without the moral/scientific/blah blah conundrum. Even Panda100's very first post touched on it. Plus I do have a marked tendency to rabbit on and on and on and ........ It would test the patience of a saint in fairness......:D

On a welcome lighter and brighter note that song is one of my faves of all time. Genius.

That wasn't aimed at you specifically Wibbs, just reiterating what Jules had posted further up the thread. I agree, it can be a difficult one to discuss without getting into the more esoteric points of the argument, but we'd like to steer the discussion back to being more about people's experiences, whether first hand or otherwise, regarding abortion.

Wincest, great song.

Wibbs

OK first hand impressions then and a confession of sorts, or at least a personal exposition.....

A fair few years ago now, a mate of mine ended up in a bit of a "sticky situation" as they say. The boyfriend, for he was a boy, though claimed manhood, was about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

The boyfriend didn't want anything to do with it, out of weakness and fear. Which in fairness I could see, but in the context of what he called love for her I couldn't quite comprehend. I went with her to get the MAP. That failed as it can.

Then she, after a lot of very painful tooing and froing decided to take the ferry to Britain. I went with her. She was my friend after all and any moral issue I took with the issue would not have been mannerly or appropriate for me to dwell too much on. She knew my concerns, but also knew i was her mate.

I'll say this; having seen this in a close in a way as I could without being either a woman or a father in waiting, I would neither wish it on a woman, nor wish a woman to have to go through it, nor wish such a decision upon her that is anything but taken lightly. To be a father in that situation I cannot comprehend. TBH I really don't know if I would have the balls to be against or for it, or even have the balls to supprt either decision.

It may be reduced to a philosophical, or humanist, or scientific argument, but when faced with the actual, palpable, scary thing that is everyday humanity, which both sides of this argument debate as nauseum, it seems a grey area that is a lot easier to navigate than first appears, when reality presents itself.

To purely debate a decision on either side can be so self indulgent, even with the best of intentions, but to live it and take a decision either way, is so so much harder.

All the harder to see, when in my limited enough life she was not the only one I've known faced with this. Some without any support.

A broad subject indeed, with a very narrow focus when it happens to you or yours.

eveie

im back, please dont all jump for joy
ok Dragon as you probably know Tomski posted the links that i was going to post in relation to some of the facts i told.
alot of you can dispute the findings of the research but you are only denying the truth.
if someone form the pro-choice side of the fence could supply me with evidence to suggest that abortion is a positive afflication for both mother and child well then maybe i might change my point of view. i doubt very much that there is such evidence.
as for the abortion being related to the increased chances of breast cancer, suicide, depression again these are facts there not there to scare people, thats like saying having warnings writtien on the side of cigrettes is scare mongering, well its not if its true.
im utterly surprised and shocked with a number of posters on this, it is so so so important to research both sides of this argument before you make and educated decission about it. by saying "oh well im a women its my choice" or on the other hand saying "your all a bunch of murders" is not educated. i think most people know someone whos had an abortion, i persoanally know a few, i also have quite a few friends who have gone through with thier pregnancys and these women would have been in very tough situations at the time, i think we can use any excuse we'd like to to suggst that abortion is ok, but its not ok, its not a right, and in my opinion shouls not be a choice, no one has the right to decide when a life ends.
and the truth of the matter is that the majority of abortions are carried out when the baby has a heart beat. i really find this so sad, to try and dispute that it is just a group of cells is again just denying the facts,

Nevyn

Oh please

evidence to suggest that abortion is a positive afflication for both mother and child

You know full well that is not possible.
The whole point of having an abortion is so that at the end of the process there is no
feotus or protochild.

eveie

ok well then how about some proof that it is positive to the mother?

eveie

feotus & "protochild" now you see i find this offensive just as the mijority of por-choicers find the "m" wor offensive

Dragan

Eveie, i have reported your last posts for ignoring Moderator instruction.

If you would like to continue this debate in a more suitable forum then please start it there and i will be happy to respond.

I think it's best if we do not get this thread locked.

eveie

drangan i do not see why you reported my posts? seriously? theres posts at the begining of this thread about using hangers and enducing abortions. look i dont want to get this thread locked either but what did say that was wrong?

Dragan

eveie wrote: »

drangan i do not see why you reported my posts? seriously? theres posts at the begining of this thread about using hangers and enducing abortions. look i dont want to get this thread locked either but what did say that was wrong?

Hey eveie,

two of the forums Moderators has posted asking us to step away from our own discussion and to allow the thread to get back to it's intended purpose, allowing people to discuss their issues, not an ongoing debate about the subjects that we are having.

I think it is important that we do this and as i said, if you would like to take our debate to a more suitable part of the site then please do and i will be happy to continue it.

WindSock

The thread has sailed into a humanitarian debate which is best suited to the Humanities forum ----> That way. I suggest you pick up your anchors and follow the Wind(socks advice)

eveie

ok windstock, its just that i feel there'l be a more rounded opinion on it here, but if thats what you want then thats wht il do, i presume your going to keep this thread open though?

WindSock

The thread will remain open, I am sure the posters whom you have been debating with will follow you over to the other forum.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=21

Kinetic^

If I can provide clothing, food and shelter for a child then I would welcome them into our world. If I can't provide any of those basic necessities, what is the point in bringing a child into poverty? I've seen it happen and it's not nice. It's no way to live. It would, imo, be better that it be aborted then to suffer in poverty.

king_of_inismac

Very interesting discussion.

Can I make one point?

Having argued/discussed this issue at length with a variety of people, here's the conclusion that I've come to.

It all comes down to this:

If the you don't consider the fetus a child, just a bunch of cells, then of course women should have the right to do what they want with their bodies, and nobody (including the state) should tell them what to do.

BUT

If you consider the fetus a human being, then of course you're going to be anti abortion, because to you an innocent child is being killed, and its very hard to stand back and do nothing about this.

As a "prolifer" (bull**** term, I don't believe pro-choice people are anti-life!) I believe we have to assume that life begins at conception, because any other arbitrary time is just that, "arbitrary". And if I do believe that the fetus is a child, then obviously I will be passionate about abortion. I won't condemn anyone who has had an abortion, I won't force my views on anyone else, but I hope at least you could see my point of view rather than consider me some sort of right wing conservative (I'm actually a left wing kinda guy in every other sence )