Dublin Bus workers threaten strike

MOH

MOH wrote: »

As I understand it, you can clock in in either Harristown or the city centre - correct?

In that case, the problem arises when you have to get to work at unsociable hours.

If you're starting on one of the first buses in the morning, the bus will be in Harristown anyway, so you start in Harristown as usual. You presumably then finish by handing the bus over in the city centre, then have to get back to Harristown to pick up your car. Not knowing how long a shift is, I don't know whether starting on the first bus would mean you finish your shift during rush hour.

If you're finishing on one of the last buses at night, you need your car to get home when you finish at Harristown. Which means you have to park in Harristown before you pick up the bus in the city centre. However, in this case you're unlikely to be travelling into the city centre from Harristown during rush hour.

If you're somewhere in between, not starting on an extremely early bus and not finishing late, there's no problem. You just start and finish work in the city centre the same as any other commuter would.

So only one of the three situations involves a trip between Harristown and the city centre during rush hour, and presumably you rotate so it wouldn't be the same driver doing this every day?

Irish Times wrote:

The unions say that this could lengthen the working day of drivers by two or three hours

Sorry for quoting myself, but unless there's something very wrong with my logic, I fail to see how making one Harristown-City centre trip equates to increasing the working day by 2-3 hours. Am I missing something?

KC61

A difference that appears to have been overlooked here is that heretofore the only routes going to/from Harristown from the city were the 27b, 13/a, and 83, all of which take circuitous routes.

The new situation will see a 4/4a operating directly via Phibsborough and Ballymun to/from Harristown every 10 minutes. This route *should* be able to do the journey in 45 minutes. It has not operated in service to/from Harristown before now, so hence all the claims of how buses can take over an hour are somewhat irrelevant as they are not comparing like with like.

Of course there are circumstances where traffic can delay drivers - but that is the same for any of the other garages such as Donnybrook and Clontarf. Just look at the situation a couple of weeks back where every 46A and 145 was held up between the city and Donnybrook.

The reality is that in the majority of situations it will be possible to do the trip in 45 minutes. There will always be a day where something can go wrong - but that is the same for everybody.

spareman

MOH wrote: »

So you're saying you have to go to Harristown to clock in regardless?

We dont have to go, but if we turn up late in town it's a black mark against us, If we turn up 45mins earlier in harristown then we are late in town, its not our fault.

Presumably you have neighbours some of whom work in or across town, how do they manage every day?

Same as us I presume, drive, cycle, bus, dart. difference is they are not being told to travel an extra 11km from monday.

I'd love to use my company's gym facilities before starting work. Since we don't have any, I have to pay for one after work. What's that got to do with anything?

I pay for a gym too, Im a donnybrook driver and the gym there is crap, The gym in harristown was added as a carrot to get driver's to move out there.

Jip

spareman wrote: »

You know nothing about buses or there operation, Do you think some business man will fund a bus running on the 59 route for example?

Most businesses operate a loss leader.

MOH wrote:

Sorry for quoting myself, but unless there's something very wrong with my logic, I fail to see how making one Harristown-City centre trip equates to increasing the working day by 2-3 hours. Am I missing something?

A bus driver yesterday said it was per week, not per working day.

spareman

MOH wrote: »

Sorry for quoting myself, but unless there's something very wrong with my logic, I fail to see how making one Harristown-City centre trip equates to increasing the working day by 2-3 hours. Am I missing something?

You may have to travel to city and back to garage, in heavy traffic.

TheDoc

o wow theres a massive thread here.

Well thankfully to bus drivers, i had no bus service this morning, meaning i missed college.

I also missed an important test that accounts for 30% of my total marks.

Your public servants, you dont go on strike, its a disgrace. I'm glad a bus got pelted with coffee going by " out of service" this morning.

Absolute shambles.

spareman

KC61 wrote: »

A difference that appears to have been overlooked here is that heretofore the only routes going to/from Harristown from the city were the 27b, 13/a, and 83, all of which take circuitous routes.

The new situation will see a 4/4a operating directly via Phibsborough and Ballymun to/from Harristown every 10 minutes. This route *should* be able to do the journey in 45 minutes. It has not operated in service to/from Harristown before now, so hence all the claims of how buses can take over an hour are somewhat irrelevant as they are not comparing like with like.

Of course there are circumstances where traffic can delay drivers - but that is the same for any of the other garages such as Donnybrook and Clontarf. Just look at the situation a couple of weeks back where every 46A and 145 was held up between the city and Donnybrook.

The reality is that in the majority of situations it will be possible to do the trip in 45 minutes. There will always be a day where something can go wrong - but that is the same for everybody.

So what your saying is, the majority of time we will have a relief driver and not have to wait on a bus going nowhere, Is this good enough for the traveling public?

spareman

Jip wrote: »

Most businesses operate a loss leader.


A bus driver yesterday said it was per week, not per working day.

Too many loss leaders at DB.
The driver actually said per day, RTE cut him off mid sentence and went on to say per week, for some strange reason?

AlekSmart

Quote:

Drivers at Harristown are organising a protest march tomorrow morning at 11am from the Garden of Remembrance in Parnell Square to the Dublin Bus headquarters in O'Connell Street.

Organiser Owen McCormack said that Harristown drivers were not calling on drivers from other depots to walk off the job to join the protest.

However, he could not predict what individual drivers would choose to do. [End]

Seasoned watchers of Dublin Bus affairs will read of this protest with a certain sense of.....comfort perhaps ?
Those who go to make up the general (Placid,non activist) membership of the Unions concerned will also have a certain recognition of how things are now progressing.

One can predict a fairly well attended march with much in the way of Busworkers Action Group flyers and Socialist Workers Party tomes on offer.

If any non Dublin Bus posters are there to witness the procession it would be beneficial to identify the organizers and stewards of the event.
Spotting the likes of Mick Faherty (NBRU) should not be a problem as they do have a Media profile,however it`s the lesser well known,but no less important figures which will go to make up a good overview.

Watch,my friends and listen to the speeches and watch for the facial expressions and responses of the Official Union people..:rolleyes:

Also do keep ur eyes peeled for anarchists...they will be wearing tall hats,black cloaks and carrying big round "Plum Pudding" bombs with long fizzing fuses........ :eek:

Let the class struggle begin......!!

daymobrew

Am I right in assuming that the company wants driver changes to happen in the city centre for an efficient running of the new high-frequency routes?

If changes were to only happen at Harristown, which will involve some Out-Of-Services buses going to/from the garage, how many additional buses/drivers are needed to achieve the desired high-frequency?

spareman

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

o wow theres a massive thread here.

Well thankfully to bus drivers, i had no bus service this morning, meaning i missed college.

I also missed an important test that accounts for 30% of my total marks.

Your public servants, you dont go on strike, its a disgrace. I'm glad a bus got pelted with coffee going by " out of service" this morning.

Absolute shambles.

Its started already, Your right I agree we should not be on strike, We have been left with no other option by DB managements forceful approach and bully tatics to implement change to our work practices.

If you pelted my bus with coffee I would have stopped and called the guards.

KC61

The vast majority of driver duties can be summarised as follows:

Early:
*Usually* starts in depot before 8am and finishes either in depot or in city around 2pm

Late:
*Usually* starts between 3 and 5pm either in city or at depot and finishes in depot after 10pm

Relief:
Can start from between 12pm and 3pm in the depot or the city and finishes after 8pm at either the depot or the city

Bogey:
Starts before 8am in the depot, breaks at about 11am either in the depot or in the city, and starts again after 3pm finishing by 7pm, generally restarting in the same place as where the break started and finishing in either the depot or the city.

There are the odd exceptions to these, but in essence it's quite possible for driving duties to:
1) Start in a depot and finish in city
2) Start in the city and finish in the depot
3) Start in the city and finish in the city
4) Start in the depot and finish in the depot

Drivers can sign in either at the depot or when they board the bus in the city.

KC61

spareman wrote: »

So what your saying is, the majority of time we will have a relief driver and not have to wait on a bus going nowhere, Is this good enough for the traveling public?

No I'm not - I am just pointing out that no-one is taking into account that there will be a new *direct* and frequent route to/from Harristown that has not been there until now which should make the journey easier, that's all.

Delays can affect you as a Donnybrook driver as well, and I'm sure that there are occasions where you've needed your full break (having arrived late) and people have had to wait. It does happen, but not every day!!

MiniD

There was a bus driver on the RTE news yesterday, ranting about how high house prices had forced him out of the "GDA - Greater Dublin Area", and how these new arrangements would mean he wouldn't get to spend time with his kids etc.

I really believe, if drivers want public support, they need to stop stories like this. The location of where any Dublin Bus worker lives has nothing to do with this strike.

Trying to be positive here, where do people see this situation developing? Harristown can't stay on strike forever, and drivers can't afford to be out of work.

What solutions can be given to this dispute, where everyone benefits.

Would the transfer of routes 128 and 4/4A to another depot be the handiest answer. Harristown could then take some easier to run routes in return?

Jip

spareman wrote: »

The driver actually said per day, RTE cut him off mid sentence and went on to say per week, for some strange reason?

You're a joke. Bus drivers and the unions do not have the interests of the public at heart despite what they say. And now RTE are manipulating video to put words into drivers mouths ? The only bully tactics I and the rest of the public can see are coming from Dublin Bus drivers and their unions. They won't take note that the Labour Court rules against them but yet they want to go again. And what happens if they rule against you once more ? Another strike and ask to go to the labour court again until you get the ruling you want ?

spareman

daymobrew wrote: »

Am I right in assuming that the company wants driver changes to happen in the city centre for an efficient running of the new high-frequency routes?

If changes were to only happen at Harristown, which will involve some Out-Of-Services buses going to/from the garage, how many additional buses/drivers are needed to achieve the desired high-frequency?

I cant tell you how many extra buses/drivers would be needed, but at a guess Id say one bus, a spare bus running between outer terminus and harristown, cant see more than one bus traveling out of service at any one time.

trellheim

DB managements forceful approach and bully tatics

Going to the Labour Court and winning ? You can be damn sure if the union had won Management would have caved.

spareman

Jip wrote: »

You're a joke. Bus drivers and the unions do not have the interests of the public at heart despite what they say. And now RTE are manipulating video to put words into drivers mouths ? The only bully tactics I and the rest of the public can see are coming from Dublin Bus drivers and their unions. They won't take note that the Labour Court rules against them but yet they want to go again. And what happens if they rule against you once more ? Another strike and ask to go to the labour court agaun until you get the ruling you want ?

How am I a joke? Im just telling you the difference between what I heard when the driver was being interviewed at harristown yesterday and what was reported on the news last night.

Whispered

I dont agree or disagree really either way, It's inconvenient for us passengers but it's worse for the drivers, they are the ones loosing money through this strike at the end of the day, and I know DB is loosing too but I'm talking about as individuals, money from their families etc.

As for the poster who said this

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

o wow theres a massive thread here.

Well thankfully to bus drivers, i had no bus service this morning, meaning i missed college.

I also missed an important test that accounts for 30% of my total marks.

We all knew a strike was coming up, everybody else had to make other arrangements, you missed a test worth 30% because you didn't bother finding another way in!

I know it's a bit off topic but while I'm here I may as well say I got an a$$hole driver yesterday, he was ridiculous. Snapped and commented to everybody getting on (telling them to hurry up etc) asked me why I didn't get the bus in front of him (it was full) accused me of not paying full fare (I most definately did and the smallest coin I put in was 10c) he also called my friend back, asking her where she "thought" she was going as I had paid 1.90 she had paid 1.60 (she was getting off much earlier than me) and made a show of her saying he hopes she was not trying to skip the fare!! HOW HARD ISS IT TO BE NICE TO PEOPLE, this man is paid to do his job yet he took it out on every passanger. Granted some of the nicest people I have met have been DB drivers but yesterdays one was just pig ignorant.

spareman

helena.ryan wrote: »

I dont agree or disagree really either way, It's inconvenient for us passengers but it's worse for the drivers, they are the ones loosing money through this strike at the end of the day, and I know DB is loosing too but I'm talking about as individuals, money from their families etc.

As for the poster who said this

We all knew a strike was coming up, everybody else had to make other arrangements, you missed a test worth 30% because you didn't bother finding another way in!

I know it's a bit off topic but while I'm here I may as well say I got an a$$hole driver yesterday, he was ridiculous. Snapped and commented to everybody getting on (telling them to hurry up etc) asked me why I didn't get the bus in front of him (it was full) accused me of not paying full fare (I most definately did and the smallest coin I put in was 10c) he also called my friend back, asking her where she "thought" she was going as I had paid 1.90 she had paid 1.60 (she was getting off much earlier than me) and made a show of her saying he hopes she was not trying to skip the fare!! HOW HARD ISS IT TO BE NICE TO PEOPLE, this man is paid to do his job yet he took it out on every passanger. Granted some of the nicest people I have met have been DB drivers but yesterdays one was just pig ignorant.

Report him, write, phone, email, whatever.

markpb

Jip wrote: »

Explain yourself, that makes no sense.
If anything it will drop reality like a bomb on the heads of people like you and see how the rest of the country actually operates.

Badly regulated privatised bus operations would be worse than the current system. Well regulated privatised bus operations would be better. If you can find a good (Irish) example of a company that was privatised or a market that is regulated well, I'd love to see it. Frankly, our track record in this area is abysmal. You're also ignoring that fact that most of the problems DB commuters face can be blamed on the government and the city councils, not DB itself. In any event, even if routes in Dublin are regulated and opened to tender, DB will most likely still operate a large number of them.

Whispered

Ah I wouldn't want to get him into trouble, I know DB act on complaints, he was prob just stressed, and when i didn't complain about the driver flying along while talking on his mobile phone I'm hardly going to ring over that........ although a woman on the bus actually rang DB from her seat that time and they radioed the driver while he was on the phone!!! Funny

And as I said some of the nicest people I've net have been DB drivers. If the few ignorant ones were a little bit nicer......

I just thought I'd mention it as I was on anyway

daymobrew

helena.ryan wrote: »

Ah I wouldn't want to get him into trouble, I know DB act on complaints, he was prob just stressed, and when i didn't complain about the driver flying along while talking on his mobile phone I'm hardly going to ring over that........ although a woman on the bus actually rang DB from her seat that time and they radioed the driver while he was on the phone!!! Funny

Your description of events goes way beyond behaviour that might be excused because the driver was stressed. He'll never change if people don't report him.

You definitely should have reported the driver on the mobile. That's 2 penalty points. I am glad that another passenger reported the incident.

spareman

helena.ryan wrote: »

Ah I wouldn't want to get him into trouble, I know DB act on complaints, he was prob just stressed, and when i didn't complain about the driver flying along while talking on his mobile phone I'm hardly going to ring over that........ although a woman on the bus actually rang DB from her seat that time and they radioed the driver while he was on the phone!!! Funny

And as I said some of the nicest people I've net have been DB drivers. If the few ignorant ones were a little bit nicer......

I just thought I'd mention it as I was on anyway

I was thinking he was having a bad day alright, but if people dont complain about it, he will get away with it and frustrate more passengers, management would probably have a little word in his ear after the first complaint, might make him think about it next time.
I myself can get very stressed at work sometimes, I do try to treat each passenger as unique, but it is very hard sometimes not to carry over a bad attitude from a previous passenger.

MOH

spareman wrote: »

We dont have to go, but if we turn up late in town it's a black mark against us, If we turn up 45mins earlier in harristown then we are late in town, its not our fault.

Same as us I presume, drive, cycle, bus, dart. difference is they are not being told to travel an extra 11km from monday.

I pay for a gym too, Im a donnybrook driver and the gym there is crap, The gym in harristown was added as a carrot to get driver's to move out there.

I've worked in places where offices moved and people had to travel an extra 6km (once) or 16km (second time). I've had to do it myself. Some people left the company, most people moved with it. It's life.

If you're starting your shift at a reasonable time in the city centre it's your responsibility to get there on time, like anyone else. You deserve a black mark if you're late.

spareman wrote: »

You may have to travel to city and back to garage, in heavy traffic.

Nope, you only have to do it one way. You're either picking the bus up at the depot on a very early shift or leaving it back on a very late shift. The other end of the shift you have to travel to/from the city centre. Otherwise you clock in/out in the city centre. You don't have to do the trip both ways, unless you're choosing to clock in/out at Harristown to avoid black marks because you can't get to town in time, and that's your choice.

spareman

DB management have tried to force changes to the work practices of employee's without proper negotitation or agreement, as a result we have had no other option but to strike.

As you will all be aware we are repesented by a union and as such we cannot be compared with private sector employee's who simple dont know or dont care about their rights in relation to work practice changes.

These new roster's were rejected by staff in the best interest of the traveling public and bus driver's work life balance.

The company knew what would happen on monday, but still insisted on forcing change, So instead of the 2 new routes not being started, nothing has moved in Harristown since monday.

The driver's at Harristown are determined to see this through, I would think the only way they will see it through is by picketing other depots and bringing the whole fleet to a standstill, and then the Government may get envolved to settle this dispute.

We could not do a no fares protest, as the company would not let us take the buses out of the garage. No bus driver wants to be standing out in the cold with no wages, We want this dispute resolved sooner rather than later.

MOH

spareman wrote: »

DB management have tried to force changes to the work practices of employee's without proper negotitation or agreement, as a result we have had no other option but to strike.

As you will all be aware we are repesented by a union and as such we cannot be compared with private sector employee's who simple dont know or dont care about their rights in relation to work practice changes.

This has already been through the proper channels, and the Labour Court has found in favour of DB, either because your union didn't do its job properly and didn't get these supposedly agreed work practices in writing, or becasue no such agreement was ever made.

These new roster's were rejected by staff in the best interest of the traveling public and bus driver's work life balance.

I'm sick of drivers going on about the best interests of the public, and how sorry they are. This is not about the good of the public. The vast majority of people affected this week would never even have known about the 'change' in work practice.

The company knew what would happen on monday, but still insisted on forcing change, So instead of the 2 new routes not being started, nothing has moved in Harristown since monday.

And how long have these routes been on hold for? How long have you all known this was coming? It's not like DB dropped this on you last week out of the blue, is it?

vandermeyde

Quick question Spareman!

given the labour court recommendations were in favour of the company do you think this will run and run i.e. can a compromise be found which will allow both groups to save face?

Obviously there seems to be a hard line on both sides at the moment but are there any background "peace" talks going on do you reckon?

Personally, I reckon this is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

My name is Mud

spareman wrote: »

DB management have tried to force changes to the work practices of employee's without proper negotitation or agreement.

...apart from the Labour Court agreement, which found the union to be at fault?

spareman wrote: »

We want this dispute resolved sooner rather than later.

...and therefore rejected proposals from the LRC and Labour Court, as reported in todays papers?

Being on strike is a ridiculous situation, and it just drags DB's public image (and more over) the driver's public image further downhill.

I have no beef with you personally, but I just cant fathom the ideals you are striking for. Its not like Dublin Bus management are killing your first born in order to extend the bus service?

vandermeyde

My name is Mud wrote: »

...apart from the Labour Court agreement, which found the union to be at fault?


...and therefore rejected proposals from the LRC and Labour Court, as reported in todays papers?

Being on strike is a ridiculous situation, and it just drags DB's public image (and more over) the driver's public image further downhill.

I think this could well be the crux of the matter...For some reason, there's been a c0ck-up at the union end which has allowed this scenario to arise... the company has then decided to introduce these changes which the LRC says its fully entitled to do.

The company therefore have nothing to gain by going back to the LRC, in fact, they'd be automatically acknowledging that the unions have a point and that the LRC's original recommendation were wrong by agreeing to even meet them thru the LRC...

I don't know the ins-and-outs of how local bargaining was done in Harristown but someone fcuked up out there and it strikes me (pardon the pun!) as being a desperate attempt to shut the door after the horse has bolted...

As is always the case in these things its the public who pays :rolleyes: