Dublin Bus workers threaten strike

penexpers

daymobrew wrote: »

At what time does the driver start getting paid? 8:15 or 9am?
I realise that this is not the full issue, but it's an aspect that I am not clear about.

He starts getting paid at 8:15am, so essentially it's 1.5 hours of enforced but paid overtime.

spareman

daymobrew wrote: »

At what time does the driver start getting paid? 8:15 or 9am?
I realise that this is not the full issue, but it's an aspect that I am not clear about.

Marked in drivers will be paid from 08.15, Junior men paid from 9am.
I challenge anyone to turn up at harristown at 08.15 and try making it to O connell bridge for 9am, when the strike is over obviously, Have any of you ever been late for work due to traffic? If you work in a shop/office thats fine, If you have a bus load of angry passengers waiting for you it's a bit different. If this goes ahead driver's will have to turn up at harristown 90mins before start time minimum, and get paid for 45 mins.

Dyr

meanmachine3 wrote: »

QUESTION :
how many jobs are there where you start in one place finish in another then have to travel back 11 or so km to your starting point to pick up your car.?
does this make sense to anybody out ther what dublin bus are trying to force us to do.
this is as far as i know one of the main issues.

lots would be the answer. The other question would be how many jobs give you the benefit of being able to hop on a bus for free anywhere and anytime regardless of whether you're at the right stop or even at a stop at all?

Seems ironic that dublin bus drivers are striking because they're having to use their own services to get from A to B

vandermeyde

spareman wrote: »

Marked in drivers will be paid from 08.15, Junior men paid from 9am.

travel time is an implicit part of the duties on the new routes is it not?
i.e a 9am start in town would already have the 45 minutes included, so in effect the driver is paid from 8:15 regardless of rank assuming he's assigned to one of those duties?

dub_commuter

Jip wrote: »

Not it's not, the 40D can get from it's terminus in Tyrrelstown, just a short bit away from Harristown, to Parnell Square in the mornings in that time and that's contending with all the road works going on around Blanchardstown at that time..

It may take 45 Minutess at certain times but it would not all the time, it can take up to 60. Add the traffic in from Parnell Square to O'Connell Bridge, which can take 15 minutes between those two points but for this example we'll say 5-15 and the 10 minutes from Harristown and you have a journey that would take at least 60 minutes, but between 75-90 at peak times.

spareman

vandermeyde wrote: »

travel time is an implicit part of the duties on the new routes is it not?
i.e a 9am start in town would already have the 45 minutes included, so in effect the driver is paid from 8:15 regardless of rank assuming he's assigned to one of those duties?

When the route is marked in (ie drivers appointed to the route) these drivers will be the only ones paid, relief staff will not be paid unless there start place is different to there finish place, in which case they would be paid 45mins extra a day.

meanmachine3

lets get with real world. it can take over 30 mins just to get through o'connell street alone. now you folks have a good day i'm outta here.

My name is Mud

I just wish the drivers would take their grievance out on the unions, and not the commuting public. The unions are at fault here, and the public are used as ransom.

Meanmachine3: I have suggested to stop taking fares on the disupted routes in my previous posts.

With your clothes shop example - if said shop went on strike, with people walking out the door with free goods, the company would very quickly put a stop to it, and possibly fire the workers in question.

You have the luxury of using the commuting public as ransom, which is a very childish way of getting what you want.

I wish I got paid overtime for commuting...

Gavin

There is a lot of confusion.

The issue seems to boil down to drivers being asked (or told) that they are to commute to the city center to start work, instead of Harristown.

Is it true that drivers can check in at the city center to begin their shift ? As in, do they have to go to Harristown first ? And the same for finishing, do yee have to go back out to finish or can yee punch out in town ?

If it is the case that yee have to go to Harristown, and then in to the city center, you do get paid some compensation (probably not the full amount) for this extra traveling time ?

I'm trying to be open minded here, but I'm finding it hard to see that this is unfair for the drivers in comparison with any other worker that commutes to work.

I also think that it is absolutely unfair for the rest of the stations to go on strike as well, if that is what they plan to do.

spareman

My name is Mud wrote: »

I just wish the drivers would take their grievance out on the unions, and not the commuting public. The unions are at fault here, and the public are used as ransom.
Meanmachine3: I have suggested to stop taking fares on the disupted routes in my previous posts.

I have enquired about this yesterday and was told the company would not let us take the buses out of the garage, We only got away with this once and the company said we would not get away with it again.

You have the luxury of using the commuting public as ransom, which is a very childish way of getting what you want.

Do you really think drivers want to be striking? christmas in 6 weeks, A list as long as my arm from the kids, get real will you!

I wish I got paid overtime for commuting...

Jesus ****ing christ are you reading this thread at all?

WE DONT GET PAID FOR COMMUNTING BETWEEN HOME AND THE GARAGE!!!! CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW OR WHAT?

Our duty will start at the garage, we then have 45mins to travel 11km to collect our bus.
Im going for a walk to clear the head, This is my bleedin restday!!!!!!!!!

therecklessone

Verb wrote: »

The issue seems to boil down to drivers being asked (or told) that they are to commute to the city center to start work, instead of Harristown.

Is it true that drivers can check in at the city center to begin their shift ? As in, do they have to go to Harristown first ? And the same for finishing, do yee have to go back out to finish or can yee punch out in town ?

If it is the case that yee have to go to Harristown, and then in to the city center, you do get paid some compensation (probably not the full amount) for this extra traveling time ?

Thinking the same myself.

Unless drivers have to travel to Harristown first then into the city, or unless they are being asked to start/finish routes from the city at unsociable hours (any start/finish time that they cannot use public transport to travel to/from) then I'm finding it hard to have see the problem.

spareman

Verb wrote: »

There is a lot of confusion.

The issue seems to boil down to drivers being asked (or told) that they are to commute to the city center to start work, instead of Harristown.

TOLD would be more like it alright.

Is it true that drivers can check in at the city center to begin their shift ? As in, do they have to go to Harristown first ? And the same for finishing, do yee have to go back out to finish or can yee punch out in town ?

We can sign off on the bus, But if we start in town and finish in harristown at midnight, we need to leave car in garage then travel back to the city.

I'm trying to be open minded here, but I'm finding it hard to see that this is unfair for the drivers in comparison with any other worker that commutes to work.

You commute to head office every day before going on to your normal office, do many people do this everyday?

I also think that it is absolutely unfair for the rest of the stations to go on strike as well, if that is what they plan to do.

Its looks like it will be the only way to make the company sit up and listen, They seem to be happy enough to leave our harristown collegues out in the cold and a bleak christmas ahead, again we dont want to be striking, but when management are trying to force changes to work practice's without proper negotiations what are our alternatives?

markpb

Verb wrote: »

Is it true that drivers can check in at the city center to begin their shift ? As in, do they have to go to Harristown first ? And the same for finishing, do yee have to go back out to finish or can yee punch out in town ?

I could be wrong but my understanding is that a driver can clock in on O'Connell St but if the shift starts at 6am or finishes after 11pm, there's no way for them to get home and no parking in the city centre so they drive to H'town, park there and get a bus to their start point. If the shift starts and finishes during normal hours, there's no problem.

If it is the case that yee have to go to Harristown, and then in to the city center, you do get paid some compensation (probably not the full amount) for this extra traveling time ?

If they're a marked in driver, they get paid for 45 minutes. If they're a spareman, they don't get paid. [This seems crazy to me, how can you insist on working unpaid? I know it's accepted in IT but I thought it was because we're all mad and love the code ]

The problem arises when it takes more than 45 minutes to get to the city centre. If they arrive late, the bus and all it's passengers must wait. They can leave earlier but they won't be paid for it. The same happens at the end of the shift - if it takes more than 45 minutes to get back to H'town, they won't get paid for the extra time'worked.

MOH

As I understand it, you can clock in in either Harristown or the city centre - correct?

In that case, the problem arises when you have to get to work at unsociable hours.

If you're starting on one of the first buses in the morning, the bus will be in Harristown anyway, so you start in Harristown as usual. You presumably then finish by handing the bus over in the city centre, then have to get back to Harristown to pick up your car. Not knowing how long a shift is, I don't know whether starting on the first bus would mean you finish your shift during rush hour.

If you're finishing on one of the last buses at night, you need your car to get home when you finish at Harristown. Which means you have to park in Harristown before you pick up the bus in the city centre. However, in this case you're unlikely to be travelling into the city centre from Harristown during rush hour.

If you're somewhere in between, not starting on an extremely early bus and not finishing late, there's no problem. You just start and finish work in the city centre the same as any other commuter would.

So only one of the three situations involves a trip between Harristown and the city centre during rush hour, and presumably you rotate so it wouldn't be the same driver doing this every day?

Padraig Mor

spareman wrote: »

But if we start in town and finish in harristown at midnight,

Every union official I've heard has been whinging about starting AND finishing in the city centre. Basically, it seems the problem is the drivers don't want to either (a) pay for parking in the city like everyone else or (b) use the bus to commute (paid) to the city.

dub_commuter

Drivers at Harristown are organising a protest march tomorrow morning at 11am from the Garden of Remembrance in Parnell Square to the Dublin Bus headquarters in O'Connell Street.

Organiser Owen McCormack said that Harristown drivers were not calling on drivers from other depots to walk off the job to join the protest.

However, he could not predict what individual drivers would choose to do.

Sounds like this is getting interesting.

My name is Mud

I believe the drivers can clock in/out in the city centre or Harristown - its their choice.

If a driver is clocking in/out @ Harristown, they get paid 45 mins overtime to compensate for the additional travel time (which the dispute is centred on, with drivers claiming that the extra time extends the working week, and that 45 mins OT is not fair).

The drivers that work the early or late shifts would be essentially forced into this situation, as they would firstly need to pick up the bus at 5am (ish) from Harristown, drive their route, take breaks in city centre, leave bus in city centre for driver changeover, and get back to Harristown in order to collect their car to get home.

According to the Irish Times today (front page article)...
"Drivers at Harristown have already rejected proposals put forward by the LRC and the Labour Court".

The Labour Court has already ruled in favour of DB management, with unions claiming they had a "verbal agreement" with DB management to avoid this situation.

If its a choice between this idiocy and privatisation, I may lean towards the latter.

Edit:
Spareman: Yes im reading the thread! You finish your shift in the city centre, and then commute back to the garage (which you are paid overtime for), pick up your car, and go home.

Nobody gets paid going to or from work - I do understand that. You, on the other hand, get paid to get back to the garage after you have finished driving the bus, which is a commute.

Linky:
http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+commute&meta=

Ham'nd'egger

My name is Mud wrote: »

I wish I got paid overtime for commuting...

He didn't say that bus drivers are looking to get paid for commuting. They however are looking for a defined starting place for their day's work that they have a hope of getting to safely or a proper arrangement to ensure same. Granted, there is a time allowed to drivers for this but this is "imposed" and can add 2 hours to a day compulsory working time; two working shifts and times for the same "shift" doesn't make sense, does it? My work has me working in a myraid of places from minute to minute, but that is the nature of my job; it isn't the case for bus drivers based on what they took on and it is somewhat unfair to impose this on staff without consent. I can see how people are confusing the issue with OT and that; it isn't, however.

In relation to "breaks", while there is a Dublin Bus premises on Marlborough Street, it is of little use to a driver who wants a toilet break or a simple 15 minute stopover unless he is directly beside it.

spareman

MOH wrote: »

If you're starting work picking up a bus in O'Connell St at 9am, why do you have to go to Harristown at all? Why not just go straight into town?
[I'm assuming here that you can clock in in town, if you have to go to Harristown just for that it's a different story. But no-one's answered that yet].

You would have to go to harristown because thats where you park your car, your duty starts there officially, and you live north of harristown and commute by car and as there is no proper public transport to the area you have been forced to move too because you cant afford to live in Dublin.
Also your duty may finish there, you may want to use the gym, canteen facilaties before starting work. What does it matter.
If I worked in harristown I would turn up there exactly 45 mins before Im due in O Connell street, the company would soon change the system when the public start complaining, although I would probably need to invest in a good set of ear plugs.

Jip

Can we organise a march to counteract this calling for the privatisation of Dublin Bus

spareman wrote: »

you have been forced to move too because you cant afford to live in Dublin.

Boo ****ing hoo, what's that got to to with this dispute ?

therecklessone

spareman wrote: »

We can sign off on the bus, But if we start in town and finish in harristown at midnight, we need to leave car in garage then travel back to the city.

Do the proposed rosters involve a start in the city with a late night finish at Harristown?

Has the union asked DB to consider that early morning/late night finishes should start and end in the same place? Or at least the case of a late night finish duty beginning at the garage so a driver can leave his car there?

dub_commuter

Jip wrote: »

Can we organise a march to counteract this calling for the privatisation of Dublin Bus

Boo ****ing hoo, what's that got to to with this dispute ?

Whilst privatisiation would benefit some ectors of Dublin Bus slightly, and it has not failed everywhere despite what some people say, Harristown is one of the places where DB performs very well.

The Chessplayer

The chessplayer would sack them all, have rotten fruit thrown at them on O'Connell street, and send them to work in labour camps. The biggest flaw in western-style democracy is that the likes of bus drivers can go on strike for ludicrous things like the changing of a bus route. You'd swear they had a right to choose which routes they'd drive.

spareman

Jip wrote: »

Can we organise a march to counteract this calling for the privatisation of Dublin Bus



Boo ****ing hoo, what's that got to to with this dispute ?

Its A reason why we would go to harristown before we start rather than the city.
Personally I would love to see privatisation too, for different reasons but mainly so I can laugh at people like you.

MOH

spareman wrote: »

You would have to go to harristown because thats where you park your car, your duty starts there officially, and you live north of harristown and commute by car and as there is no proper public transport to the area you have been forced to move too because you cant afford to live in Dublin.

So you're saying you have to go to Harristown to clock in regardless?

Presumably you have neighbours some of whom work in or across town, how do they manage every day?

Also your duty may finish there, you may want to use the gym, canteen facilaties before starting work. What does it matter.

I'd love to use my company's gym facilities before starting work. Since we don't have any, I have to pay for one after work. What's that got to do with anything?

spareman

therecklessone wrote: »

Do the proposed rosters involve a start in the city with a late night finish at Harristown?

Yes

Has the union asked DB to consider that early morning/late night finishes should start and end in the same place?

The company wont budge on there plans, they have forced this on staff without proper negotiations or agreement.

Jip

spareman wrote: »

for different reasons but mainly so I can laugh at people like you.

Explain yourself, that makes no sense.
If anything it will drop reality like a bomb on the heads of people like you and see how the rest of the country actually operates.

therecklessone

spareman wrote: »

The company wont budge on there plans, they have forced this on staff without proper negotiations or agreement.

That doesn't really answer my question.

spareman

The Chessplayer wrote: »

The chessplayer would sack them all, have rotten fruit thrown at them on O'Connell street, and send them to work in labour camps. The biggest flaw in western-style democracy is that the likes of bus drivers can go on strike for ludicrous things like the changing of a bus route. You'd swear they had a right to choose which routes they'd drive.

The longer this dispute goes on the more people will start agreeing with this sad post.
Do you even understand whats envolved here?
Personally I think we should go back for week and give you all a demonstration of what we are talking about, buses full of passengers with no drivers.

spareman

Jip wrote: »

Explain yourself, that makes no sense.
If anything it will drop reality like a bomb on the heads of people like you and see how the rest of the country actually operates.

You know nothing about buses or there operation, Do you think some business man will fund a bus running on the 59 route for example?