Rememberance Poppy

Latchy · 08-11-2007 5:43pm

(dodgy because of a scandal a few years back where it was found out that they weren't giving as much money to irish soldiers who served in the british army as british.)

thats intresting ,didn't know about that (the above) ...

Acid_Violet · 08-11-2007 5:46pm

Nor did I untill today.

The Chessplayer · 08-11-2007 6:16pm

This is indeed a silly topic.

There's certainly no harm in commemorating the wars. Personally, I'd prefer if it was done in a less British manner, but in the greater scheme of things it doesn't really matter I suppose.

gurramok · 08-11-2007 7:02pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Maybe it's time that they started selling poppies then and support their ex-servicemen/families etc.?

The poppy has/is being seen more often and is widely respected as a symbol of rememberance, it's only being seen as a symbol of past oppressors by people who can't or won't let go of the past

Sounds like people who wish to embrace a British tradition can't let go of the past.
Ireland has been independent since 1922 ya know.:D

philstar wrote:

Just because you wear a poppy doesn't mean you're a west brit or any less irish for doing it...you're just remembering the men & women in the allied forces who laid down they're lives in the two world wars.

Lets not forget thousands of irish catholics from the south died in both world wars, it doesn't matter which army they were fighting in...fact is ..they were fighting the evil forces of facism in europe, and they should be remembered & honoured for that.

Have you read the thread at all?

Its been proven that the poppy is a British tradition and it remembers all British(not allied armies) soldiers who died in all the wars including the Irish war of independence up to the present Iraq War.

If you had read my contribution to the thread, you would have learnt that my grandad was one to those who fought in 4 wars, he'll turn in his grave at the notion of been involved in poppyhood.

Last time i checked, we were not ruled by Britain.

There is a July 11th service here to remember all the Irish that fell, we do not need a British service to do that, its friggin 2007, Ireland can do things on her own now!

Spook_ie · 08-11-2007 7:16pm

Sounds like people who wish to embrace a British tradition can't let go of the past.
Ireland has been independent since 1922 ya know.

Is it a British tradition, I note they have Poppy Days in Malta and South Africa ( it is actualy called "Poppy Day" as against the more British Eqivilent of Rememberence Day ) also they have Rememberence day in Canada, Australia, NZ, Papua New Guinea and Bermuda. The USA has two services Veterans Day on 11th November and Memorial Day in May. I don't see any reason why Ireland can't have it's own Rememberence Sunday in memory of those that died in conflict

gurramok · 08-11-2007 7:28pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Is it a British tradition, I note they have Poppy Days in Malta and South Africa ( it is actualy called "Poppy Day" as against the more British Eqivilent of Rememberence Day ) also they have Rememberence day in Canada, Australia, NZ, Papua New Guinea and Bermuda. The USA has two services Veterans Day on 11th November and Memorial Day in May. I don't see any reason why Ireland can't have it's own Rememberence Sunday in memory of those that died in conflict

Most of those countries you had mentioned are/were British Commonwealth countries with the British Queen as head of state.(most are)

Ask why has the likes of the French not use the same tradition to remember their sacrifice in WW1 along with the many other independent allied countries in both world wars?

I agree that we need an Irish custom even though July 11th is our remembrance day for all Irish soldiers.

Acid_Violet · 08-11-2007 7:29pm

Wearing the poppy is more a british custom, poppies full-stop are for the allies.

Does anyone else agree that if there's to be a symbol to commemorate the ictims of WWI it probably should be a common symbol adopted by all parties involved in the war instead of adopted by one of the sides? Otherwise it only encourages the tension that caused the war!

philstar · 08-11-2007 7:39pm

gurramok wrote: »

Its been proven that the poppy is a British tradition

no it isn't, its also used by Australia, New Zealand & Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy#Symbolism

my grandad was one to those who fought in 4 wars, he'll turn in his grave at the notion of been involved in poppyhood.

oh ya, what makes you so sure..maybe he would be pleased to be remembered

Last time i checked, we were not ruled by Britain

nobody said we were:rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-11-2007 7:54pm

Buying and wearing the red poppy in Ireland is a British thing. You are funding support for British soldiers for all wars (the majority of which will be the colonial wars rather than WWI or WWII)

Steyr · 08-11-2007 7:54pm

philstar wrote: »

no it isn't, its also used by Australia, New Zealand & Canada

All EX British Colonies but im sure you know that already, if not check the NZ and Aus flag.......also im for the poppy and rememberance etc but i find it funny that the "no" camp is winning here yet im sure alot of them love to watch British made programmes etc etc oh the irony of it all.

Trojan911 · 08-11-2007 7:56pm

starn wrote: »

Would anyone here in boards refuse to wear a lilly

Yes.T'would play havoc with my hayfever......

I wouldn't wear a poppy either. I have no wish to wear anything of that nature. That was then, this is now. Each to their own I say, just not for me...

TJ911...

Spook_ie · 08-11-2007 7:59pm

gurramok wrote: »

Most of those countries you had mentioned are/were British Commonwealth countries with the British Queen as head of state.(most are)

Ask why has the likes of the French not use the same tradition to remember their sacrifice in WW1 along with the many other independent allied countries in both world wars?

I agree that we need an Irish custom even though July 11th is our remembrance day for all Irish soldiers.

Don't know if the French have a Poppy Campaign par se but they do hold a Public Holiday on Armistice Day, which co-incidently happens to be on November 11th. because it is an act of rememberence of the fallen and of the end of the "Great War", It is also a holdiay in Belgium, It is also held as the Day of Peace in Flanders Fields which is where ALL references to Poppys are from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_Day
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders_Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The birds, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

— John McCrae

Acid_Violet · 08-11-2007 8:00pm

Steyr wrote: »

All EX British Colonies but im sure you know that already, if not check the NZ and Aus flag.......also im for the poppy and rememberance etc but i find it funny that the "no" camp is winning here yet im sure alot of them love to watch British made programmes etc etc oh the irony of it all.

What makes it ironic exactly?

ziggy · 08-11-2007 8:25pm

This post has been deleted.

gurramok · 08-11-2007 9:07pm

philstar wrote: »

no it isn't, its also used by Australia, New Zealand & Canada

Yes, those 3 countries have the British Queen as head of state, see the irony in what you just said?

philstar wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy#Symbolism

Yes, did you read up about the poppy, it remembers ALL British soldiers who have died in all wars that Britain has been involved in including Irish war of independence and the Iraq war, do you see the irony here of you wanting to embrace this tradition?

philstar wrote: »

oh ya, what makes you so sure..maybe he would be pleased to be remembered

Oh yes i'm sure, he went to war in WW1 to fight for Irish home rule and as you would know from your history home rule was promised by Britain to Ireland if Ireland provided manpower for the british army in WW1.

When he came back, he fought for our freedom in the War of Independence.

philstar wrote: »

nobody said we were:rolleyes:

Well, if you want to embrace and remember British soldiers who have fallen in all wars Britain was involved in, go ahead.

Spook_ie wrote:

Don't know if the French have a Poppy Campaign par se but they do hold a Public Holiday on Armistice Day, which co-incidently happens to be on November 11th. because it is an act of rememberence of the fallen and of the end of the "Great War", It is also a holdiay in Belgium, It is also held as the Day of Peace in Flanders Fields which is where ALL references to Poppys are from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_Day
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders_Fields

Yes, they would hold it on Armistice Day as they were involved in that war and even signatories to the armistice.

You don't prove that the poppy is used by the French or the Dutch or even the Belgians for that matter!

To sum up, Britain and her present and ex-colonies(the likes of Canada/Aussie/NZ) are the only ones who remember the fallen using poppies.

Steyr · 08-11-2007 9:58pm

Acid_Violet wrote: »

What makes it ironic exactly?

See Gm's excellent post above, sorry if your a bit slow.:p

Acid_Violet · 08-11-2007 10:08pm

Steyr wrote: »

See Gm's excellent post above, sorry if your a bit slow.:p

Don't think I'm the slow one, I was wondering what's completely ironic about opposing wearing the poppy and watching British made programs. And get your grammar right.

philstar · 09-11-2007 12:14am

gurramok wrote: »

Oh yes i'm sure, he went to war in WW1 to fight for Irish home rule and as you would know from your history home rule was promised by Britain to Ireland if Ireland provided manpower for the british army in WW1.

well maybe if padraic pearse and the boys did'nt do the dirty on them, they might have got it

Well, if you want to embrace and remember British soldiers who have fallen in all wars Britain was involved in, go ahead.

to me its got nothing to do with embracing British soldiers, but a small gesture to all those who fought an evil facist regime that threaten the democracy of the world

Ruen · 09-11-2007 12:29am

Irelands 'National Day of Commemoration' is on July 11th so no need to worry about any other country's traditions. Our day of commemoration remembers all Irish men and women who have died at war(INCLUDING WW1) or on UN service, so if you happen to be Irish you might be more interested in that unless you have some special likeness for British ceremonies.

gurramok · 09-11-2007 1:15am

philstar wrote: »

well maybe if padraic pearse and the boys did'nt do the dirty on them, they might have got it

So its all Padraic Pearses fault now?..LOL

Fyi, home rule was been promised to Ireland for about 45 years up to the onset of WW1, maybe it was too long a wait for the generation back then, get it?
If you believe that it was going to come without a 1916, then you are an extreme optimist

philstar wrote: »

to me its got nothing to do with embracing British soldiers, but a small gesture to all those who fought an evil facist regime that threaten the democracy of the world

Err, yes it is....you've been proved wrong on what the poppy custom represents and choose to ignore that fact from the highlighted links.

If your Irish, we have a day on July 11th to remember those that fought an evil fascist regime.
If your British, you've got the poppy custom on Nov 11th.

Acid_Violet wrote:

Don't think I'm the slow one, I was wondering what's completely ironic about opposing wearing the poppy and watching British made programs.

Big different Violet, poppy is an institution of the British military establishment. Many countries watch British TV programs as an aspect of British entertainment(because some are blooming good), see the difference now?

If ya didn't know, we have an Irish army now and have lost many in it in various wars and all Irish soldiers are remembered on July 11th.

WhiteWashMan · 09-11-2007 1:48am

i dlike to ask something.

so what if the poppy is used to fund british service men and women who fought in the world wars?

I hardly think there is anyone alive who fought in any campaign in ireland alive these days, so im sure any money given wont be going to those 'evil facist' oppressors.

whats the big deal?

is it that people are just so buried in anti british sentiment that the mere notion of someone not hating britain is enough to send people irate? is it the traditional irish begrudgery? or is that some people just dont like other people to have their own opinions?

now, im not out to change anyones opinions, and i dont give a monkeys if youre an active member of the ira, but i just cant fathom this entire 'youre obviously a british sypothiser and deserve to be shot with balls of your own ****e' attitude of some people towards those that really dont hold any animosity towards the british.

its funny, ireland is filling with lots and lots of immegrants, who bring their own problems with them, and yet, people still give a crap about a group of people that reckon ireland is a great place to go for a holiday, drink beer and have fun. as far as im concerned, living in the past will not bring about a solution for the future. remembering the past is a wonderful thing. although apparently not if you do it with a poppy.... ironic?

Esel · 09-11-2007 6:07am

Steyr wrote: »

..i find it funny that the "no" camp is winning here...

The poll here is totally invalid, as the question asked in it was changed after a few days from this: "Would you wear a rememberance (sic) lilly (sic)".

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

..I hardly think there is anyone alive who fought in any campaign in ireland alive these days...

...i dont give a monkeys if youre an active member of the ira...

Apart from the recent operation (the longest in history) in the north, that is!

And I thought the IRA (at least the Provos) are inactive (these days)? :eek:

I'd like to know what sweat-shop in what non-democracy these paper poppies are made in, and what the slave labourers who make them think of the whole deal.

WhiteWashMan · 09-11-2007 6:55am

esel wrote: »

And I thought the IRA (at least the Provos) are inactive (these days)? :eek:

the point was i dont judge people on who they feel the represent, but rather who they are

unless youre a chulchie. i hate culchies

Spook_ie · 09-11-2007 8:09am

gurramok wrote: »

Yes, they would hold it on Armistice Day as they were involved in that war and even signatories to the armistice.

You don't prove that the poppy is used by the French or the Dutch or even the Belgians for that matter!

To sum up, Britain and her present and ex-colonies(the likes of Canada/Aussie/NZ) are the only ones who remember the fallen using poppies.

Well not wishing to try and teach history but during the 1914-1918 war Ireland was part of the British Empire and so was at war, however I think the main problem people are having here is their lack of ability to differentiate between

a A rememberence Poppy, The French, Americans, Canadians etc. lay wreaths of Poppies for rememberence.

b A British Charity Poppy ( in reality its originaly Scottish http://www.ev3.co.uk/flow/flowplayer/history.htm) funds the Earl Haig Charities http://www.charitychoice.co.uk/charitydetails.asp?ref=594&category=EXSV( Scotland ) and The Royal British Legion http://www.charitychoice.co.uk/charitydetails.asp?ref=149437&keyword=poppy( I assume the rest of the UK )

The following makes interesting reading as to how the Poppy and Rememberance has been politicaly stigmatized and left 35,500 Irish Dead, with a lot of people not caring about them or their sacrifice anymore.
http://www.greatwar.ie/postwar.html

arybvtcw0eolkf · 09-11-2007 8:10am

esel wrote: »

I'd like to know what sweat-shop in what non-democracy these paper poppies are made in, and what the slave labourers who make them think of the whole deal.

They're made by ex-soldiers, made ill or infirm through their service in the forces. They make a wage out of it.

Spook_ie · 09-11-2007 8:18am

Steyr wrote: »

All EX British Colonies but im sure you know that already, if not check the NZ and Aus flag.......also im for the poppy and rememberance etc but i find it funny that the "no" camp is winning here yet im sure alot of them love to watch British made programmes etc etc oh the irony of it all.

Actualy isn't Ireland an EX British Colony, We just decided we didn't want to be in their Common Wealth either.

Cionnfhaolaidh · 09-11-2007 8:27am

Both my great grandfathers fought against the British so I'd feel a bit dumb wearing a Poppy.

I went to a Protestant primary school so the Poppy had to be worn by all pupils. I didn't know any better at the time.

Anyway, I voted no, but I wouldn't object to anyone wearing one.

Cionnfhaolaidh · 09-11-2007 8:33am

Spook_ie wrote: »

Actualy isn't Ireland an EX British Colony, We just decided we didn't want to be in their Common Wealth either.

Ireland was once a British colony but when we became a Republic our membership to the Commonwealth was automatically revoked. That suited us just fine.

Cionnfhaolaidh · 09-11-2007 8:39am

By the way, do any of you remember when Google UK put a Poppy on the Google Ireland search page? They won't make that mistake again. http://www.indymedia.ie/article/72933

Spook_ie · 09-11-2007 8:52am

Cionnfhaolaidh wrote: »

Ireland was once a British colony but when we became a Republic our membership to the Commonwealth was automatically revoked. That suited us just fine.

According to this article, it was decided by the coalition government in 1948 to leave the British Common Wealth

http://www.reform.org/TheReformMovement_files/article_files/articles/leavcw.htm

Rememberance Poppy

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