Rememberance Poppy

Stoner

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You obviously saw what you saw and if that is different to what the CWGC think is going on then I will make it my mission to put them right.

Yeah, I'm also mainly going on what the guide told me, fair play to you for actually doing something about though, when you have it done you can post in the "when was the last time you actually did something " thread

Dave Roe

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I noted that up the north Martin McGuinness was wearning a poppy. He too is an Irish unionist, for the union between north and south.

Was out about about in the city yesterday and didn't see a single poppy-head. So unless they were scurrying down back alleys like sewer rats, I certainly didn't see any. Mind you, I wasn't on Patrick Street - I completely forgot about this whole poppy debacle.

Although, the more I argue against the poppy, the more I think to myself that it would be better to just ignore it. Can't see it ever becoming a widespread practice.

Nor can I. I saw two people in Tesco in Drumcondra, which is about as far as I ventured on Sunday.

Obviously I saw loads in Church too, but they must have been figments of my imagination as we've been informed that we don't have rememberance services.

For someone who claims not to care about whether anyone wears a poppy or not, you use a a lot of pejorative language. What's the need for terms like 'sewer rats'?

I too am in favour of an all-Ireland Union BTW, I just never murdered anyone to try to bring it about.

LordSutch

Dunno Mr Chessplayer if you are allowed to call us Poppy wearers "Sewer Rats" (bit strong isnt it)? and by the way what is is "trolling"?

The Chessplayer

British soldier blown up in Iraq stifles screams long enough to observe own death with minute's silence.

Ruen

That was really funny:)

The Chessplayer

Dave Roe wrote: »

Nor can I. I saw two people in Tesco in Drumcondra, which is about as far as I ventured on Sunday.

Obviously I saw loads in Church too, but they must have been figments of my imagination as we've been informed that we don't have rememberance services.

For someone who claims not to care about whether anyone wears a poppy or not, you use a a lot of pejorative language. What's the need for terms like 'sewer rats'?

I too am in favour of an all-Ireland Union BTW, I just never murdered anyone to try to bring it about.

No history of murder in the British ranks? That is as clownish a post as I have had the misfortune to read.

It beggars belief that you would use the term murderer for those who fought in our long and distinguished struggle for Irish freedom and sovereignty. Many, need I remind you, were protestant: Robert Emmet, Lord Edward Fitzgerald and the great Wolfe Tone himself.

Civil rights were an issue from the very beginning of partition for the northern catholics...and you may as well admit that Ireland always sat uneasily in the British empire. There was always unrest.

deman

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Was out about about in the city yesterday and didn't see a single poppy-head. So unless they were scurrying down back alleys like sewer rats, I certainly didn't see any. Mind you, I wasn't on Patrick Street - I completely forgot about this whole poppy debacle.

I find Cheeseplayer's disrespectful and intolerable behavior totally unacceptable. I know many Protestants in the north that would accept a united Ireland but it is because of people like Cheeseplayer and their attitudes towards the Unionist community that is stalling the process. Once the country gets rid of bigotry on both sides of the border, then a united Ireland could become a reality. And I for one would embrace that. It's time to move forward and forget about the past attrocities. But it does no harm to remember the peple who died for our freedom, whether who wear a lily or a poppy. It's all about respect and tolerance. Once people learn to do this, then there will be peace, but not until then. So Cheeseplayer, grow up, will you? If you really want a united Ireland, show it. But if "your" united Ireland doesn't unite Roman Catholics and Protestants, then you're an embarrassment to your country.

LordSutch

I am just amazed that he is getting away with it!

Latchy

Whatever about the merits of wearing a poppy in ireland ,people all over the uk will continue to wear one as long as their is a rememberence memorial service , quite a % of them will be from north and south of ireland.

DICK FINGERS

Yes i would wear a poppy

i think its important to honor all the many millions of young men/woman who died fighting for our freedom

But i haven't seen any poppies for sale around my way though

KIVES

DICK FINGERS wrote: »

Yes i would wear a poppy

i think its important to honor all the many millions of young men/woman who died fighting for our freedom

But i haven't seen any poppies for sale around my way though

I'm not pre-supposing your reasons for not having seen any poppy's for sale 'around your way' - but as you've stated on another thread that you are currently in bed with 2 broken legs, would it not be fair of me to suggest that your unlikely to encounter someone selling Poppy's next to your bedside locker or at the foot of your bed...my point is, you're not basing it on substantial evidence - Me?I'm torn between the old socialist mantra of 'the working classes fighting/dying in somebody elses war(the Rulers/upper Classes) and a genuine respect for the ultimate price these men paid - it's a tough one

LordSutch

I attended the annual Remembrance Day Service in St Patricks Cathedral Dublin yesterday (11th/Nov), President McAleese was there as usual, so too were several Government ministers, Irish regiments from past Wars were represented & their colours marched up the Cathedral, these included the Royal Irish Fusiliers, the Old Contemptables, the RAF, Royal Ulster Fifles, plus many more Regiments, the excellent Sermon was read by the C of I Rev Chris Longar (Ex RAF & Falklands veteran & an excellent speaker).

This year is also the Twentieth anniversary of the Poppy Day Bombing at Enniskillen, so our prayers were with those who survived the Bomb & who were bereaved or maimed on the day.

The victims of the Falklands War were also remembered in Mr Longar's sermon, the Cathedral was packed, & as usual it was a very moving and sombre occasion, the President laid a wreath, so too did the Representitive from the British Royal Legion of Ireland who also read the first lesson, the Norwegian Ambassador to Ireland read the second Lesson.

All in all ~ a sad, moving, & reflective day, and in the absence of another symbol I think the Poppy is the perfect symbol, from its simple design to its poignant origins where so many (Irish & Allied) died in the Great War, to its modern interpretation also taking in other conflicts including Irish UN casualties.

The Chessplayer

deman wrote: »

I find Cheeseplayer's disrespectful and intolerable behavior totally unacceptable. I know many Protestants in the north that would accept a united Ireland but it is because of people like Cheeseplayer and their attitudes towards the Unionist community that is stalling the process. Once the country gets rid of bigotry on both sides of the border, then a united Ireland could become a reality. And I for one would embrace that. It's time to move forward and forget about the past attrocities. But it does no harm to remember the peple who died for our freedom, whether who wear a lily or a poppy. It's all about respect and tolerance. Once people learn to do this, then there will be peace, but not until then. So Cheeseplayer, grow up, will you? If you really want a united Ireland, show it. But if "your" united Ireland doesn't unite Roman Catholics and Protestants, then you're an embarrassment to your country.

You'd swear I was some sort of flag-waving nationalist. Unionists seem to think that all we do down here is talk in terms of catholic and protestant. Do I go to mass? Are you joking me...of course I don't! Just because I think that unionism is daft, it doesn't make me a raving "shinner".

One of the things that draws me to the history of the nationalist movement is its inclusiveness - protestant, catholic, dissenter. Every man an equal, there were no Princes or high-born royals here. Great men like Wolfe Tone, Napper Tandy, Robert Emmet, Parnell, Casement, Childers, Hyde....

On point, I predict that Remembrance ceremony may gain acceptance within the Irish army. I would welcome this, because it will bring the tricolour to centre stage at ceremonies, where it belongs - at last giving the Irishmen who died the respect they are due. The respect for what they were - Irishmen, not British. The poppy can never do that.

The Chessplayer

ArthurF wrote: »

I attended the annual Remembrance Day Service in St Patricks Cathedral Dublin yesterday (11th/Nov), President McAleese was there as usual, so too were several Government ministers, Irish regiments from past Wars were represented & their colours marched up the Cathedral, these included the Royal Irish Fusiliers, the Old Contemptables, the RAF, Royal Ulster Fifles, plus many more Regiments, the excellent Sermon was read by the C of I Rev Chris Longar (Ex RAF & Falklands veteran & an excellent speaker).

This year is also the Twentieth anniversary of the Poppy Day Bombing at Enniskillen, so our prayers were with those who survived the Bomb & who were bereaved or maimed on the day.

The victims of the Falklands War were also remembered in Mr Longar's sermon, the Cathedral was packed, & as usual it was a very moving and sombre occasion, the President laid a wreath, so too did the Representitive from the British Royal Legion of Ireland who also read the first lesson, the Norwegian Ambassador to Ireland read the second Lesson.

All in all ~ a sad, moving, & reflective day, and in the absence of another symbol I think the Poppy is the perfect symbol, from its simple design to its poignant origins where so many (Irish & Allied) died in the Great War, to its modern interpretation also taking in other conflicts including Irish UN casualties.

The victims of the Falklands War??? Why? Was this a service for the British diaspora in Ireland?

Ruen

ArthurF wrote: »

All in all ~ a sad, moving, & reflective day, and in the absence of another symbol I think the Poppy is the perfect symbol, from its simple design to its poignant origins where so many (Irish & Allied) died in the Great War, to its modern interpretation also taking in other conflicts including Irish UN casualties.

How did you figure that out? The poppy is not for Irish Defence Forces personnel who've died on UN service. And furthermore, Irish Defence Forces personnel are not eligible for support from the Royal British Legion whom all proceeds from poppies goes to so it certainly doesnt take any conflicts other than British wars into account.

KIVES

I'd partially agree with The ChessPlayer - no objection to remembrances of Wars past but I'd be a tad queesy about associating myself with the 'Falkland War' element of the service...I know that bastion of intelligent news reporting 'The Sun' stoked up a lot of base rate Anti-Irishness at the time regarding our neutrality on 'The Falklands War' issue,even calling for a boycott of Irish imports into Britain...No problem with the other elements or the wearing of a poppy though...

Ruen

The Chessplayer wrote: »

The victims of the Falklands War??? Why? Was this a service for the British diaspora in Ireland?

It seems like it.
Remembrance Day must now include the great people who died for our freedom in the Falklands and I suppose the brave souls who died for Irish peoples freedom in Iraq aswell.
Basically that proves how completely British the whole affair is, we had nothing to do with the falklands war yet here this chap is in Ireland going on about the victims of a British war, that is not Irish peoples business.

Sonnenblumen

KIVES wrote: »

I'm not pre-supposing your reasons for not having seen any poppy's for sale 'around your way' - but as you've stated on another thread that you are currently in bed with 2 broken legs, would it not be fair of me to suggest that your unlikely to encounter someone selling Poppy's next to your bedside locker or at the foot of your bed...my point is, you're not basing it on substantial evidence - Me?I'm torn between the old socialist mantra of 'the working classes fighting/dying in somebody elses war(the Rulers/upper Classes) and a genuine respect for the ultimate price these men paid - it's a tough one

Surely it's more a case of historical fact with considerable influence out of economic necessity, that in times of conflict, it is the 'poor' that will always be first to fight the rich man's battle?

The 'poor' in such instances are most likely but not exclusively to be: limited education, probably unskilled and/or working class background and the military has always been a means of escape to better prospects/means.

Fact is, even outside of conflict, the lesser skilled have always been more prepared to make the greater sacrifice. Judging by the consensus of opinion within this thread, there is little evidence of any socialism (international, token or otherwise).

Regrettable perhaps, but hardly surprising that there would be little Irish sympathy for Remembrance Day. Instead of any beligerent/silent respect, what is offered is nothing short of contemptous ridicule, not surprising really, it is afterall more than prevalent in the Irish psyche for many other matters.

cournioni

I have no links or ties to anything that the poppy stands for. Therefore no I would not wear it.

LordSutch

Ruen wrote: »

How did you figure that out? The poppy is not for Irish Defence Forces personnel who've died on UN service. And furthermore, Irish Defence Forces personnel are not eligible for support from the Royal British Legion whom all proceeds from poppies goes to so it certainly doesnt take any conflicts other than British wars into account.

When you buy a Poppy in the Republic of Ireland the proceeds go to the 'Irish Poppy Appeal Fund' to help look after those Irish families who have been bereaved in Wars.

As regards the UN personnel in attendance, I shall inform them next year that they are not allowed to wear the Poppy & are not eligible to attend

Ruen

ArthurF wrote: »

When you buy a Poppy in the Republic of Ireland the proceeds go to the 'Irish Poppy Appeal Fund' to help look after those Irish families who have been bereaved in Wars.

As regards the UN personnel in attendance, I shall inform them next year that they are not allowed to wear the Poppy & are not eligible to attend

The Irish Poppy Appeal Fund goes to the Royal British Legion:rolleyes: for soldiers who've died families whether they're Irish or not so basically it's to support the families of Britains soldiers that die in Iraq and Afghanistan, why should Irish people support the veterans of another nations war?
They shouldnt and it's not our problem if the British military is so incompetent that the soldiers they send to war need to turn to a charity to get basic assistance, often after having been maimed while serving Her Majestys war efforts, when they leave the military.
What army were those UN personnel in by the way? Would that be the British army by any chance?

LordSutch

Ruen wrote: »

The Irish Poppy Appeal Fund goes to the Royal British Legion:rolleyes: for soldiers who've died families whether they're Irish or not so basically it's to support the families of Britains soldiers that die in Iraq and Afghanistan, why should Irish people support the veterans of another nations war?
They shouldnt and it's not our problem if the British military is so incompetent that the soldiers they send to war need to turn to a charity to get basic assistance, often after having been maimed while serving Her Majestys war efforts, when they leave the military.
What army were those UN personnel in by the way? Would that be the British army by any chance?

NOT TRUE! The money collected in any Town or City in the Republic of Ireland goes to the Irish Poppy Appeal fund which is used to support Irish families in the Irish Republic, & if there is a short fall in takings then it is the Royal British Legion in London who make-up (donate) money back into the Irish Poppy Appeal coffers!

P.S. Irish UN soldiers have nothing to do with the British Armed forces.

Dave Roe

The Chessplayer wrote: »

No history of murder in the British ranks?

Did I say there wasnt? I said I had never murdered anyone.

It beggars belief that you would use the term murderer for those who fought in our long and distinguished struggle for Irish freedom and sovereignty. Many, need I remind you, were protestant: Robert Emmet, Lord Edward Fitzgerald and the great Wolfe Tone himself.

I implied that Martin McGuinness had murdered people. You can disagree with that if you like I didnt say anything about the people you're trolling into this.
There's a large number of people who worked to bring about Irish independance who did so entirely peacefully and never shot or blew up anyone or told anyone else do so. Lots of them were protestants too. So what?

Civil rights were an issue from the very beginning of partition for the northern catholics...and you may as well admit that Ireland always sat uneasily in the British empire. There was always unrest.

Now you're so far off on your own tangent that it's hard to tell what point you're making or who you're having a go at.

For someone who has repeatedly claimed that they don't care about whether people even wear poppies or not, you are very sensitive to anyone expressing anything even slightly outside your own narrow and very rudely expressed views.

Ruen

ArthurF wrote: »

NOT TRUE! The money collected in any Town or City in the Republic of Ireland goes to the Irish Poppy Appeal fund which is used to support Irish families in the Irish Republic, & if there is a short fall in takings then it is the Royal British Legion in London who make-up (donate) money back into the Irish Poppy Appeal coffers!

P.S. Irish UN soldiers have nothing to do with the British Armed forces.

Like I said, families of Brtish soldiers, it's not our problem to deal with the British military or British people should support them and not expect anyone in Ireland to be bothered about their mistaks i.e. going to war in Iraq.

The Chessplayer

Dave Roe wrote: »

Did I say there wasnt? I said I had never murdered anyone.

I implied that Martin McGuinness had murdered people. You can disagree with that if you like I didnt say anything about the people you're trolling into this.
There's a large number of people who worked to bring about Irish independance who did so entirely peacefully and never shot or blew up anyone or told anyone else do so. Lots of them were protestants too. So what?



Now you're so far off on your own tangent that it's hard to tell what point you're making or who you're having a go at.

For someone who has repeatedly claimed that they don't care about whether people even wear poppies or not, you are very sensitive to anyone expressing anything even slightly outside your own narrow and very rudely expressed views.

I'm merely stating a clear and reasoned opinion that people who wear poppies in Ireland tend to look like plonkers because it's not a tradition here.

Anyway, I'm NOT here to defend or even discuss Martin McGuinness. Shouldn't be a debate about us (Irish nationalists) v them (Angl-Irish). The simple point is that the whole poppy thing exhibits extreme buffoonary.

LordSutch

Ruen wrote: »

Like I said, families of Brtish soldiers, it's not our problem to deal with the British military or British people should support them and not expect anyone in Ireland to be bothered about their mistaks i.e. going to war in Iraq.

Like I said, Irish families in the Irish Republic ...........................

Acid_Violet

TheGooner wrote: »

It's not about nationalities it is about the WAR DEAD, that is WAR DEAD of every country.

Not true, very simply not true. About the war dead of the commonwealth.