Rememberance Poppy

Thirdfox · 06-11-2007 11:34am

For me the poppy represents the opium wars that the British were involved in when they decided to force the sale of illegal drugs to China a few hundred years ago resulting in thousands if not millions of lives being ruined. International law was abandoned by London and China had to pay out huge compensation (and tracts of land including Hong Kong and later Kowloon) in trying to keep illegal opiates out of the country.

So no, the poppy has a special meaning to me and I would not wear it. But I would respect the fact that for others the poppy means no such thing and wear it to commemorate war dead.

LordSutch · 06-11-2007 2:03pm

As I already said in post #87 tens of thousands of Irish men died in the Great War & WWII, and for this reason alone I think it a fitting tribute to remember those tens of thousands of Irishmen who died by wearing a PoppY on or around the 11th/November every year (see post #87 for detail).

It really rattles me when 'some' Irish people start going-on about why Irish people shouldnt wear the PoppY, in many instances its pure ignorance on their part as to the origin/ financing/ significance of Remembrance Day, which is saddening really when you think about the maassive loss of life (Irish) in the two World Wars!
No amount of abuse will ever stop me wearing my PoppY ~ thats for sure ~ not that I have ever encountered any abuse in Dublin anyway.

What I find really strange is that when the figures are mentioned (30 Thousand Irish dead in WWI alone) some Irish people dont even bat an eyelid, some then go on to abuse their memory, most refuse to wear a PoppY whilst not being aware that their very own Great Grandad is lying in a field in France................

Wear the PoppY to rember those who died, & even if you dont give a toss about the English/ Scots/ Welsh & Ulstermen who died, then at least recognise the memory of those Tens of thousands of Irish men from the South who perished in the Great War.

Thirty Thousand Irish Dead is no Joke.

Fratton Fred · 06-11-2007 2:14pm

Thirdfox wrote: »

For me the poppy represents the opium wars that the British were involved in when they decided to force the sale of illegal drugs to China a few hundred years ago resulting in thousands if not millions of lives being ruined. International law was abandoned by London and China had to pay out huge compensation (and tracts of land including Hong Kong and later Kowloon) in trying to keep illegal opiates out of the country.

So no, the poppy has a special meaning to me and I would not wear it. But I would respect the fact that for others the poppy means no such thing and wear it to commemorate war dead.

that is a very selective view on the Opium wars. Still, I wonder how many Irishmen also made a handsome profit out of the war with China? Ireland being an integral part of Britain at the time.

Stoner · 06-11-2007 2:19pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I presume you are talking about the Commonwealth War Graves commission, they are responsible for maintaining war cemetries and memorials.

---That's them

I would be surprised if they do "Ignore" ...I would suspect that they have agreed with the cemetary themselves that they will maintain it,

.....
well the director of glasnevin cemetery told me in person ( 1 month ago) that they have "ignored" requests and have "neglected to Honor their responsibility" with regard to its upkeep, so unless he is telling porkies. I know that they are badly stuck for money there, they have spent 20M on drainage etc IMO they would have tried to get someone else to help with the restoration, as a result he said that they have "taken it into their redevelopment plan" .

Regards

Stoner

leninbenjamin · 06-11-2007 2:24pm

ArthurF wrote: »

Wear the PoppY to rember those who died, & even if you dont give a toss about the English/ Scots/ Welsh & Ulstermen who died, then at least recognise the memory of those Tens of thousands of Irish men from the South who perished in the Great War.

Thirty Thousand Irish Dead is no Joke.

that's just as daft as any other post in this thread. why should i have to follow a British custom to remember those Irish who died? and to the majority of Irish it's just a custom of another country, simple as. Why is wearing the poppy the only acceptable way for some? Jon Snow talked about "poppy fascism" before... i wasn't going to mention it for obvious reasons, but based on the attitudes of some here i think it deserves mention.

faceman · 06-11-2007 2:43pm

leninbenjamin wrote: »

that's just as daft as any other post in this thread. why should i have to follow a British custom to remember those Irish who died? and to the majority of Irish it's just a custom of another country, simple as. Why is wearing the poppy the only acceptable way for some? Jon Snow talked about "poppy fascism" before... i wasn't going to mention it for obvious reasons, but based on the attitudes of some here i think it deserves mention.

to be fair, we dont really commerate our war dead in ireland. In fact, in one of life's poetic ironies, a plague was unveiled on the anniversary of the 1916 rising in honour of those who died for our independence. Despite all our patriotic cries and the anti britishness shown in this thread, there were very few irish people in attendance at the ceremony.

Its admirable that the british chose a symbol to honour their dead, generations before them, who fought for the greater good. We dont do the same.

World War II was fought by the allied forces, a combination of nations. While the poppy is a british tradition, respect in some or another should be given to those men and women of not just irish blood, but of allied blood, who gave their lives during that awful period in history.

Terry · 06-11-2007 2:43pm

ArthurF wrote: »

As I already said in post #87 tens of thousands of Irish men died in the Great War & WWII, and for this reason alone I think it a fitting tribute to remember those tens of thousands of Irishmen who died by wearing a PoppY on or around the 11th/November every year (see post #87 for detail).

It really rattles me when 'some' Irish people start going-on about why Irish people shouldnt wear the PoppY, in many instances its pure ignorance on their part as to the origin/ financing/ significance of Remembrance Day, which is saddening really when you think about the maassive loss of life (Irish) in the two World Wars!
No amount of abuse will ever stop me wearing my PoppY ~ thats for sure ~ not that I have ever encountered any abuse in Dublin anyway.

What I find really strange is that when the figures are mentioned (30 Thousand Irish dead in WWI alone) some Irish people dont even bat an eyelid, some then go on to abuse their memory, most refuse to wear a PoppY whilst not being aware that their very own Great Grandad is lying in a field in France................

Wear the PoppY to rember those who died, & even if you dont give a toss about the English/ Scots/ Welsh & Ulstermen who died, then at least recognise the memory of those Tens of thousands of Irish men from the South who perished in the Great War.

Thirty Thousand Irish Dead is no Joke.

That's great.

Why do you capitalise the "Y" at the end of "Poppy"?

Thirdfox · 06-11-2007 2:44pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

that is a very selective view on the Opium wars. Still, I wonder how many Irishmen also made a handsome profit out of the war with China? Ireland being an integral part of Britain at the time.

I have presented an one-sided view I agree but the facts were that Britain was exporting opium to China and the British government was willing to go to war to ensure the Chinese got their fix.

Obviously the current generation has nothing to do with this and it's all history but talking to people I found. A. most people know nothing about it (not a big deal since it didn't happen in Europe) B. those who vaguely knew about it thought it was China trying to sell illegal narcotics to Britain (a perception which I'm very keen to correct).

I know it's not the intention for the British to try and offend anyone by wearing a poppy but in China it wouldn't go down too well as I'm sure you'll understand.

Fratton Fred · 06-11-2007 2:45pm

Stoner,

I'm surprised at the CWGC, I know the organisation very well and they are very good at maintaining memorials. Anyone who has been to the memorials in France and Belgium will confirm this. They go to great lengths to carry out their work so I am surprised at them.

I will email my contact there and see what they say.

LordSutch · 06-11-2007 6:18pm

leninbenjamin wrote: »

that's just as daft as any other post in this thread. why should i have to follow a British custom to remember those Irish who died? and to the majority of Irish it's just a custom of another country, simple as. Why is wearing the poppy the only acceptable way for some? Jon Snow talked about "poppy fascism" before... i wasn't going to mention it for obvious reasons, but based on the attitudes of some here i think it deserves mention.

I apologise if I am being somewhat 'fascist' in my Pro-PoppY replies, but with the amount of ignorance by 'some' Irish posters & the onslaught from the Anti-PoppY brigade, then I shall indeed bang-on about the virtues of remembering the tens of thousands of Irish War dead who fell in the PoppY fields of Flanders ...........

It may well be a 'mainly' British custom to remember the War dead by wearing a PoppY, but when the guns fell silent the death & destruction was there for all to see ~ Tens of thousands of Irish men also lay amongst the Poppies, never to return home to Ireland (North & South).

In the absence of any other remembrance symbol I think the PoppY is perfect, for it remembers all who died on Flanders PoppY fields (Irish included).

Sonnenblumen · 06-11-2007 7:09pm

Terry wrote: »

Infraction given.

In the circumstances it was worth it.

latenia · 06-11-2007 7:38pm

ArthurF wrote: »

I apologise if I am being somewhat 'fascist' in my Pro-PoppY replies, but with the amount of ignorance by 'some' Irish posters & the onslaught from the Anti-PoppY brigade, then I shall indeed bang-on about the virtues of remembering the tens of thousands of Irish War dead who fell in the PoppY fields of Flanders ...........

It may well be a 'mainly' British custom to remember the War dead by wearing a PoppY, but when the guns fell silent the death & destruction was there for all to see ~ Tens of thousands of Irish men also lay amongst the Poppies, never to return home to Ireland (North & South).

In the absence of any other remembrance symbol I think the PoppY is perfect, for it remembers all who died on Flanders PoppY fields (Irish included).

What's with the capital y?

lynnlegend · 06-11-2007 11:49pm

ArthurF wrote: »

As I already said in post #87 tens of thousands of Irish men died in the Great War & WWII, and for this reason alone I think it a fitting tribute to remember those tens of thousands of Irishmen who died by wearing a PoppY on or around the 11th/November every year (see post #87 for detail).

It really rattles me when 'some' Irish people start going-on about why Irish people shouldnt wear the PoppY, in many instances its pure ignorance on their part as to the origin/ financing/ significance of Remembrance Day, which is saddening really when you think about the maassive loss of life (Irish) in the two World Wars!
No amount of abuse will ever stop me wearing my PoppY ~ thats for sure ~ not that I have ever encountered any abuse in Dublin anyway.

What I find really strange is that when the figures are mentioned (30 Thousand Irish dead in WWI alone) some Irish people dont even bat an eyelid, some then go on to abuse their memory, most refuse to wear a PoppY whilst not being aware that their very own Great Grandad is lying in a field in France................

Wear the PoppY to rember those who died, & even if you dont give a toss about the English/ Scots/ Welsh & Ulstermen who died, then at least recognise the memory of those Tens of thousands of Irish men from the South who perished in the Great War.

Thirty Thousand Irish Dead is no Joke.

your right its not but really lets think about this
the money thats raised is to help ex soliders from the british army
the irish men that fought in world war one and two are few and far between now and i dont think the english are sending over buckets of cash to them i read last year that a soilder that fought in world war two he was irish only been awarded his medal at that time 2006 there not so quick at thanking as they are at takeing
now this is the bit that will make me sound crazy but please bare with me my points are at the end but please read it all
this census was taken in ireland in 1841
A census taken in 1841 revealed a population of slightly over 8 million.A census immediately after the famine in 1851 counted 6,552,385, a drop of almost 1,500,000 in ten years. Modern historians and statisticians estimate that between 800,000 and 1,000,000 died from disease and starvation
thats just in ten years of famine no not famine only one crop was failing were was every other crop going wheat oats barley now we have 800 years of bitterness with england and in just 10 years of that they through there greed or "taxes" at a minimum there have 800,000 deaths on there hands and we still have an other 790 years to go through yet and this is just one country that england raped and pillaged does any one know how many countrys england has done simaliar too and how many remberance days do they have for the people they killed and enslaved when they were trying to dominate the entire world only one that i know of and im not sure if its there idea or how it came about and thats world slave day and now my points

england has always used and abuase this country like every other one they set foot on for crops recoures or young men for cannon fodder

they have killed many more irish then they have ever helped

ireland has a day were they rember all irish fallen soilders and a wreath is layed any one that wants to rember and we all should can take part in that

does anyone really thing we should not be bitter to some degree towards england any one that does i dare them to walk up to a black person and say when are you getting over that slave thing........

england has taken so much from us and now we cant have a day to rember our fallen with out them takeing a monoply on that. a red poppy ..........to go with red coats

Fratton Fred · 07-11-2007 12:00am

lynnlegend wrote: »

your right its not but really lets think about this
the money thats raised is to help ex soliders from the british army
the irish men that fought in world war one and two are few and far between now and i dont think the english are sending over buckets of cash to them i read last year that a soilder that fought in world war two he was irish only been awarded his medal at that time 2006 there not so quick at thanking as they are at takeing
now this is the bit that will make me sound crazy but please bare with me my points are at the end but please read it all
this census was taken in ireland in 1841
A census taken in 1841 revealed a population of slightly over 8 million.A census immediately after the famine in 1851 counted 6,552,385, a drop of almost 1,500,000 in ten years. Modern historians and statisticians estimate that between 800,000 and 1,000,000 died from disease and starvation
thats just in ten years of famine no not famine only one crop was failing were was every other crop going wheat oats barley now we have 800 years of bitterness with england and in just 10 years of that they through there greed or "taxes" at a minimum there have 800,000 deaths on there hands and we still have an other 790 years to go through yet and this is just one country that england raped and pillaged does any one know how many countrys england has done simaliar too and how many remberance days do they have for the people they killed and enslaved when they were trying to dominate the entire world only one that i know of and im not sure if its there idea or how it came about and thats world slave day and now my points

england has always used and abuase this country like every other one they set foot on for crops recoures or young men for cannon fodder

they have killed many more irish then they have ever helped

ireland has a day were they rember all irish fallen soilders and a wreath is layed any one that wants to rember and we all should can take part in that

does anyone really thing we should not be bitter to some degree towards england any one that does i dare them to walk up to a black person and say when are you getting over that slave thing........

england has taken so much from us and now we cant have a day to rember our fallen with out them takeing a monoply on that. a red poppy ..........to go with red coats

can I borrow your copy of An Phoblacht when you've finished with it Mr Adams.

Thank you.

lynnlegend · 07-11-2007 12:16am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

can I borrow your copy of An Phoblacht when you've finished with it Mr Adams.

Thank you.

No. sorry i did come across a bit strong but topics like this really anger me the tri colour was so hard won and was fought for. for so long by so many and all that has been forgotten so fast by some.
its our history and should not be forgotten and we have to work to a better future with england but forgetting our history tarnishes what so many died for our own country and now every one wants to jump into bed with england will we be changeing the anthem to some thing more british as well heaven forbid we might do things indepently of england

Fratton Fred · 07-11-2007 12:32am

lynnlegend wrote: »

No. sorry i did come across a bit strong but topics like this really anger me the tri colour was so hard won and was fought for. for so long by so many and all that has been forgotten so fast by some.
its our history and should not be forgotten and we have to work to a better future with england but forgetting our history tarnishes what so many died for .....our freedom

no one is asking you to forget you history.

I wear a poppy for those that died or were injured, not the causes they fought for.

gurramok · 07-11-2007 12:34am

lynnlegend wrote: »

No. sorry i did come across a bit strong but topics like this really anger me the tri colour was so hard won and was fought for. for so long by so many and all that has been forgotten so fast by some.
its our history and should not be forgotten and we have to work to a better future with england but forgetting our history tarnishes what so many died for .....our freedom

Calm down lynnlegend

ArthurF is a self proclaimed Unionist on boards(hi arthur:D), Fratton Fred is from England i believe to give an English perspective on things which is welcome.

They have a right to their views even if they don't apply to Ireland:D

I'm sure they know the history side of things and acknowledge any wrongdoings that happened in your post.

If we could remember everyone that dies in wars, we be here having remembrance days all year round

And yes, freedom should be cherished, i wouldn't fancy been alive before 1922 labelled officially as a British subject against my will.

/off topic slightly
Speaking of famine, i always wondered why we don't commemorate the million plus that died, every other country remembers theirs!..one to think about!

I was watching the Hidden History programme on RTE1 just there, it shows the warped length that the British govt of the time in the 1880's went to destroy Parnell as he represented Irish democracy in action including linking him to terror plots through forged letters as democracy for Ireland threatened the union back then in the British govt's eyes, absolutely shocking.:eek:

A Dub in Glasgo · 07-11-2007 12:35am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

no one is asking you to forget you history.

I wear a poppy for those that died or were injured, not the causes they fought for.

You wear a poppy to remember those civilians and soldiers who are not in the British Army who have been killed in all conflicts then?

Ruen · 07-11-2007 10:13am

ArthurF wrote: »

As I already said in post #87 tens of thousands of Irish men died in the Great War & WWII, and for this reason alone I think it a fitting tribute to remember those tens of thousands of Irishmen who died by wearing a PoppY on or around the 11th/November every year (see post #87 for detail).

It really rattles me when 'some' Irish people start going-on about why Irish people shouldnt wear the PoppY, in many instances its pure ignorance on their part as to the origin/ financing/ significance of Remembrance Day, which is saddening really when you think about the maassive loss of life (Irish) in the two World Wars!
No amount of abuse will ever stop me wearing my PoppY ~ thats for sure ~ not that I have ever encountered any abuse in Dublin anyway.

What I find really strange is that when the figures are mentioned (30 Thousand Irish dead in WWI alone) some Irish people dont even bat an eyelid, some then go on to abuse their memory, most refuse to wear a PoppY whilst not being aware that their very own Great Grandad is lying in a field in France................

Wear the PoppY to rember those who died, & even if you dont give a toss about the English/ Scots/ Welsh & Ulstermen who died, then at least recognise the memory of those Tens of thousands of Irish men from the South who perished in the Great War.

Thirty Thousand Irish Dead is no Joke.

In Ireland we have our own 'National Day of Commemoration' every year to remember every Irish person who fought in any war and died for the cause of freedom and that includes WW1 so there's no reason why we should go around celebrating any other country's national remembrance day, be that wearing their adopted symbols or observing a minutes silence for them every year.
We are after all a sovereign nation so some people here should just get over that fact and take some pride in Ireland and give our Commemoration day some respect.

Fratton Fred · 07-11-2007 10:24am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You wear a poppy to remember those civilians and soldiers who are not in the British Army who have been killed in all conflicts then?

I know of no other way. As Gurramok says, we could end up with having a rememberence day every day of the year, so why not use 11th November as a focal point for all those that died in conflict.

I am hoping to get to the German memorial service at Glencree on the 18th, as for me that seems to be the most appropriate place (as a foreigner in this country) to pay respect.

Ruen · 07-11-2007 11:18am

There's no reason at all why Irish people should use 11th November as a focal point, we have a focal point and that's the Sunday nearest the 11th July.

Esel · 07-11-2007 11:41am

Maybe we should wear a potato flower to remember the Famine. On what day though?

It sickens me that the 'powers that were' in WWI set the armistice for the 11th hour on November 11th. Just because it had a nice ring to it I suppose. I wonder how many soldiers were killed during those eleven hours.

I'm no expert, but I read somewhere that the number of Irishmen who died in WWI was disproportionate to their total numbers. "Just send the Paddies [all Irishmen are Paddies] over the top first, shall we?" "Jolly good idea!".

Same goes for the number of Irishmen shot (executed) by the British army in WWI. "Let's set an example. Shoot a Paddy or two.".

Fratton Fred · 07-11-2007 12:34pm

esel wrote: »

Maybe we should wear a potato flower to remember the Famine. On what day though?

It sickens me that the 'powers that were' in WWI set the armistice for the 11th hour on November 11th. Just because it had a nice ring to it I suppose. I wonder how many soldiers were killed during those eleven hours.

I'm no expert, but I read somewhere that the number of Irishmen who died in WWI was disproportionate to their total numbers. "Just send the Paddies [all Irishmen are Paddies] over the top first, shall we?" "Jolly good idea!".

Same goes for the number of Irishmen shot (executed) by the British army in WWI. "Let's set an example. Shoot a Paddy or two.".

That has always amazed me, if you agree an armistice then surely it should take effect immediately. I'm not sure he Irish were considered cannon fodder anymore than any other brigades, I think pretty much all the soldiers were treated with a general disregard. From what I can recall, the Irish were based along the northern edge of the line, around flanders and the somme which saw some of the most intense fighting and also saw the first uses of gas, this may be a contributing factor.

It is true that Irish deserters were more likely to be shot, I don't know if this increased after the 1916 uprising, which based on the mentality at the time would have been understandable. Although, shooting any deserter, especially ones suffering from shell shock, I find hard to comprehend.

LordSutch · 07-11-2007 2:32pm

Ruen wrote: »

In Ireland we have our own 'National Day of Commemoration' every year to remember every Irish person who fought in any war and died for the cause of freedom and that includes WW1 so there's no reason why we should go around celebrating any other country's national remembrance day, be that wearing their adopted symbols or observing a minutes silence for them every year.
We are after all a sovereign nation so some people here should just get over that fact and take some pride in Ireland and give our Commemoration day some respect.

This Sunday I shall be at 'St Patricks Cathedral Dublin' along wih a couple of thousand other folk, commerating the War Dead as we have done since 1918, President McAleese & Government representitives will attend as usual (some with Poppies-some without), Wreaths will be laid by the President, Union Jacks will be marched up the isle (Irish batillions only), old soldiers will be there, Representives from the Commonwealth will attend, the last post will be played & we will remember the dead.

A further Wreath laying ceremony will be held at the garden of Remembrance also on Sunday!

Needless to say, every Church of Ireland parish up & down the Country will also hold a Remembreace Service & have a minutes silence to remember those who perished in the Great War, World War II & all other campaigns where Irish soldiers fought & died .........................

The Chessplayer · 07-11-2007 2:38pm

starn wrote: »

This time of year I wer a poppy. Im normally in the UK and pick it up there. As Im not going there this year. I've been trying to pick one up inDublin and cant find one. Does anyone know where I can pick one up.

I also know some Irish people who would wear a lilly [ I also wear a lilly] at easter refuse to wear the poppy. Would anyone here in boards refuse to wear a lilly

The Irish don't wear poppies. THANK GOD!

I'm sure I'm not alone is hating the whole poppy-wearing idiotic British tradition. It's such a pathetic symbol, and it's embarrassing to see them wear it year in year out.

The Chessplayer · 07-11-2007 2:46pm

ArthurF wrote: »

This Sunday I shall be at 'St Patricks Cathedral Dublin' along wih a couple of thousand other folk, commerating the War Dead as we have done since 1918, President McAleese & Government representitives will attend as usual (some with Poppies-some without), Wreaths will be laid by the President, Union Jacks will be marched up the isle (Irish batillions only), old soldiers will be there, Representives from the Commonwealth will attend, the last post will be played & we will remember the dead.

A further Wreath laying ceremony will be held at the garden of Remembrance also on Sunday!

Needless to say, every Church of Ireland parish up & down the Country will also hold a Remembreace Service & have a minutes silence to remember those who perished in the Great War, World War II & all other campaigns where Irish soldiers fought & died .........................

That's a lie. You are being disingenuous. Most Church of Ireland parishes do not and will not have rememberance services for these wars, or any other "campaigns".

This was something I did a lot of research into when I was in college, and can conclusively state that it is just not true. It is one of many bizarre myths concerning the identity of southern protestants.

"Up & down the country..." - what a load of old cobblers!

LordSutch · 07-11-2007 2:49pm

Sometimes I wish those Irish nay-sayers would sit down for a minute & think about '30 Thousand' Irish men with Irish accents laying dead on Flanders fields!

When I think about it on the 11th/ Nov ~ I am moved & saddened.

P.S. The 11th was chosen because thats when the Armistace was made, hence Armistace, PoppY, or Remembrance Day on the 11th/ Nov.

On the 11th/ Hour, of the 11th Day, of the 11th Month, we will Remember them.

LordSutch · 07-11-2007 2:55pm

The Chessplayer wrote: »

That's a lie. You are being disingenuous. Most Church of Ireland parishes do not and will not have rememberance services for these wars, or any other "campaigns".

This was something I did a lot of research into when I was in college, and can conclusively state that it is just not true. It is one of many bizarre myths concerning the identity of southern protestants.

"Up & down the country..." - what a load of old cobblers!

I shall let you into a little secret Chessplayer "I am Church of Ireland" I will be attending the morning remembrance service in my local parish Church, & then the main event in St Patricks Cathedral at 3:15pm, there is no reason in the world for me to embroider our remembrance services in the C of I.

Why not come along and see for yourself?

The Chessplayer · 07-11-2007 3:01pm

ArthurF wrote: »

Sometimes I wish those Irish nay-sayers would sit down for a minute & think about '30 Thousand' Irish men with Irish accents laying dead on Flanders fields!

When I think about it on the 11th/ Nov ~ I am moved & saddened.

P.S. The 11th was chosen because thats when the Armistace was made, hence Armistace, PoppY, or Remembrance Day on the 11th/ Nov.

On the 11th/ Hour, of the 11th Day, of the 11th Month, we will Remember them.

It is, of course, the nature and symbolism of the rememberance ceremony that so irks the masses. You lot have never been comfortable to remember it in an acceptable Irish way - it's far too interwined with Britishness.

Obviously, the Irish fought in the English army, but the use of these embarrassing poppies, and union jacks is too much for most of us.

If it needs to be remembers at all, which it doesn't - then remember it in Belfast, or accept the sovereignty of the Republic and remember it in a respectfully Irish way.

It's disingenuous to associate the rememberance ceremony with the Church of Ireland. Most of the Irish who went over saw themselves as the "Sons of Erin", and certainly held no allegiance to the symbols of the Union.

If you want to harp on about 30000 dead people, then we could have these embarrassing "wreath-laying" ceremonies every day of the week for any number of battles fought since in the last 6 to 8 thousand years in Ireland.

What a load of old cobblers!

The Chessplayer · 07-11-2007 3:05pm

ArthurF wrote: »

I shall let you into a little secret Chessplayer "I am Church of Ireland" I will be attending the morning remembrance service in my local parish Church, & then the main event in St Patricks Cathedral at 3:15pm, there is no reason in the world for me to embroider our remembrance services in the C of I.

Why not come along and see for yourself?

That's St Patrick's Cathedral - it's hardly indicative of an average Church of Ireland parish. All it's used for are these type of pompous ceremonies.

"Our"? Again, I'm trying to explain to you that they are not "your" rememberance services.

Try and understand that these services are NOT for protestants. The location of the service has nothing to do with C of I. Half of Dublin graduation ceremonies are held in St Pat's.

Rememberance Poppy

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