Rememberance Poppy

Rovi

esel wrote: »

And Jaysus lads, this fuggin' poll is asking "Would you wear a remeberance Lilly".

Has the title of the poll been changed?
It's now entitled "Would you wear a remeberance Poppy" and I'm pretty sure that when I voted, it was "Would you wear a remeberance Lilly"
My vote (and I suspect, those of may other voters) is now counted on the diametrically opposite side of where I intended it.

*runs off to Conspiracy Theories

Blisterman

Were it not for the british army in world war 2, we'd all be speaking german now, neutrality or not.

AngryBadger

Why would I be wearing a remembrance poppy?

robinph

gurramok wrote: »

Sounds like you don't understand what a poppy really means, it remembers all those who fought in every British war including the Boer war(ya know those first concentration camps) and the northern troubles and thats offensive.

Correct, its for those who fought in the wars and nothing to do with the people who decided to send them to their death. It's the politicians who sent them to war that you have issues with, not those sent to do their dirty work.

Fratton Fred

http://www.doyle.com.au/irish_soldiers_of_the_british_ar.htm

my favourite quote:

The British Army had always used Irishmen, in fact it is has been said "the British Empire was won by the Irish, administered by the Scots and Welsh and the profits went to the English". In recent years the last line was amended to read "lost by the English."

Damn Irish and their imperialism:D

LordSutch

AngryBadger wrote: »

Why would I be wearing a remembrance poppy?

Maybe Post #87 will go some way to explaining why you should.

bill_ashmount

I'd wear one.

Watching Hislop's series recently on CH4 shows the sadness of it all.
I've a lot of respect for those who died fighting, I just don't think I could ever fight for any country/government.

A Dub in Glasgo

Wear a white one instead

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Poppy

ateam

It's a British symbol and institution. You don't have Americans wearing poppies.

We wouldn't even know about poppies only for the BBC, Sky etc...

If you want to commemorate Irish people who fought in past wars, design a new distinctly Irish badge or flower, stop copying off the British.

Hagar

Blisterman wrote: »

Were it not for the british army in world war 2, we'd all be speaking german now, neutrality or not.

Were it not for the British we would all be speaking Irish, and so it goes on.

lynnlegend

Blisterman wrote: »

Were it not for the british army in world war 2, we'd all be speaking german now, neutrality or not.

no russain they would have kicked german arse they only joined germany in attacking poland to buy some time

leninbenjamin

actually, in the power vacuum while Europe destroyed itself the yanks would have taken over... we'd all be working for American companies, absorbing American culture and putting up with their imperialist foreign policies while begging them not to be stupid and start world war three...

hang on...

ateam

Hagar wrote: »

Were it not for the British we would all be speaking Irish, and so it goes on.

This is nothing to do with a anti-British thing. The poppy is a British symbol, that's why Irish people don't wear it. Americans don't wear it, why should we.

Blisterman

Sorry, I meant British Army.

Hagar

ateam wrote: »

This is nothing to do with a anti-British thing. The poppy is a British symbol, that's why Irish people don't wear it. Americans don't wear it, why should we.

You think I'm standing up for the British?
Wait till Fratton Fred gets here, he'll bust a gut laughing.:D

faceman

a potato would suit the irish more. or maybe a "we leeched of the yanks for years but begrudge foreigners coming into our country" pin badge

Fratton Fred

Hagar wrote: »

You think I'm standing up for the British?
Wait till Fratton Fred gets here, he'll bust a gut laughing.:D

out of curiosity, what do they use in France as a symbol of rememberence? I have seen Poppy wreaths but only at commonwealth cemetries.

Sonnenblumen

gurramok wrote: »

ArthurF is a self proclaimed Unionist, he is expected to say that


Sounds like you don't understand what a poppy really means, it remembers all those who fought in every British war including the Boer war(ya know those first concentration camps) and the northern troubles and thats offensive.

What is offensive is your flippant attitude of other posters and stop peddling your mishmashing of the issues. The poppy is a symbol of remembrance and not a political emblem.

It's sad to think so many died so that you can displace their dignity with your blinkered ignorance. Now thats offensive to the majority, not some disenfranchised relic still coming to terms with the 'northern troubles'.

A Dub in Glasgo

The poppy is definately used as a political emblem. The poppy 'thought police' will consider you making a political statement if you do not wear one! If you are happy to contribute to the cause of all wars that Britain has been involved in, so be it. The best way to remember the fallen of WWI from all sides is to watch Blackadder Goes Forth and to remember the absolute disgraceful waste of life foisted upon those soldiers.

peasant

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

...It's sad to think so many died so that you can displace their dignity ...

What's dignified about being sent to the front as cannon fodder?
To be sent out in wave after wave of attacks for months and years on end, only to be mowed down in an unwinnable trench war?

Gloryfing such sensless and systematic deaths of hundreds of thousands, glossing it with patriotism and false "dignity" is not rememberance ...it's the continuation of the same imperial attitude that the ruling classes had then and still have now ...especially the British ruling classes.

Is a "glorius sacrifice" still glorious or even a scrifice when your forced at gunpoint to sacrifice yourself?

I think not.

This whole poppy- thing is cynical and disgusting.

My opinion

Sonnenblumen

I know they eat deep fried frozen Mars bars apres pints but hadn't realise that the Blackadder was now on the history channel?

gurramok

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

What is offensive is your flippant attitude of other posters and stop peddling your mishmashing of the issues. The poppy is a symbol of remembrance and not a political emblem.

In reply, what Dub said. Why don't you wear a white poppy to symbolise peace instead of a red one?

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

It's sad to think so many died so that you can displace their dignity with your blinkered ignorance. Now thats offensive to the majority, not some disenfranchised relic still coming to terms with the 'northern troubles'.

Disenfranchised relic..you must talking about the old armaments

Whats wrong with creating an Irish way to remember those who fought in wars no matter what their intention, is Ireland not grown up enough to be able to do this or are you still lingering to past British imperial glorys?

What majority is this you speak of?

Sonnenblumen

peasant wrote: »

What's dignified about being sent to the front as cannon fodder?
To be sent out in wave after wave of attacks for months and years on end, only to be mowed down in an unwinnable trench war?

Gloryfing such sensless and systematic deaths of hundreds of thousands, glossing it with patriotism and false "dignity" is not rememberance ...it's the continuation of the same imperial attitude that the ruling classes had then and still have now ...especially the British ruling classes.

Is a "glorius sacrifice" still glorious or even a scrifice when your forced at gunpoint to sacrifice yourself?

I think not.

This whole poppy- thing is cynical and disgusting.

My opinion

The died for a greater cause, if you cannot come to terms and acknowledge their sacrifice at least acknowledge that they and others should remember them with dignity.

The " British ruling classes", "imperial attitude" sure only recently you were banned for calling me and others NAZIS. Very confusing indeed.

When it comes to the crunch, most wre prepared to stand, some didn't whilst others well and for different reasons will always deny the inevitability of war being the last resort.

Not many do or want to live in a caravan park.

peasant

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

The died for a greater cause

Every soldier on every side of WWI died "for a greater cause" ...none of them with dignity.

As for the rest of your garbled post ...errmm ...relevance?

Sonnenblumen

gurramok wrote: »

In reply, what Dub said. Why don't you wear a white poppy to symbolise peace instead of a red one?



Disenfranchised relic..you must talking about the old armaments

Whats wrong with creating an Irish way to remember those who fought in wars no matter what their intention, is Ireland not grown up enough to be able to do this or are you still lingering to past British imperial glorys?

What majority is this you speak of?

Why not indeed, of course the Irish can 'invent' their own remembrance symbol, good idea. But why hasn't it happened? It might still, but chances are it won't happen unless its financially supported by a major drinks co.

BTW the discussion is about the Poppy which is predominantly red, not white, there's no significance other than its a very simple flower that flourishes in recntly disturbed ground.

You're really missing the point confusing the Great wars with Irish conflicts. I'm grown up plenty to see that many millions died for a cause much greater and more substantive than some parochial Paddywhackery. There's nothing imperial about that, British or otherwise, but IMO you're clutching at straws if you think then or even now Ireland is some major socio-political centre.

Sonnenblumen

peasant wrote: »

Every soldier on every side of WWI died "for a greater cause" ...none of them with dignity.

As for the rest of your garbled post ...errmm ...relevance?

Peasant by name, peasant by outlook. What do you know of dignity?

Well the americans probably call it best - trailer park trash talk, the germans the russians etc have similar terms.

"No Dignity" - Peasant go and learn.

Stoner

It’s a funny thing for me, the old poppy, sometime it turns my stomach when I see Irish people with one on, and sometimes I see why they do.

I'm a big fan of Thomas Kettle, an Irishman who died in WW1, he went there like many in the hope that if we fought along side England that we would be seen as friends and would be granted home rule. Before the draft in WW1 22%of the British army was Irish.
When I was younger I associated myself with the republican 1916 movement, the fact that many of these WW1 guys died for similar reasons, and gave as much of themselves as they could, or as anyone else has ever done was lost on me.

Thousands died thinking this, their cause almost forgotten.
Kettle wrote
"Bond, from the toil of hate we may not cease;
Free, we are free to be your friend;
And when you make your banquet and we come,
Soldier with equal soldier must we sit,
Closing a battle, not forgetting it.
With not a name to hide, "

I visited Glasnevin graveyard recently and went on a tour, there is a memorial for the Irish men and women who died during WW2, it is the responsibility of the British War Memorial Group to maintain this monument, but they ignore it, as a result it has been taken under the wing of the graveyard and thankfully it is being cleaned up at the moment.

I'd put on a Lilly before a poppy ( but I have never done so) as the Brits never recognised the sacrifice that many Irish people made enough IMO, their reason for fighting a war was lost, absorbed into theirs, all the credit taken.

Years ago I was told how Alan Stanford (George from Glenroe) pulled an Easter lily off the jacket of an old local man in a west Clare pub, saying he should be "ashamed to wear it", I wonder if it had it been a younger man would Alan have let it slide?, regardless it is funny how these little symbols can move us, as we sit in our cosy chairs posting on boards about something that we have little experience of.

I guess the thing that drives me mad about Irish people wearing poppies is that in many cases these people gave their lives in vain and the Brits turned their backs on them IMO (and many Irish people turned their backs on them too for different reasons).
To give your life for something is the most a person can give, many of these guys were brave enough to die for a flag in which they did not believe in, I would not have that courage myself, maybe we should just remember them for the individuals they were and not represent their complex reasons for dying with a paper flower.

Hagar

Fratton Fred wrote: »

out of curiosity, what do they use in France as a symbol of rememberence? I have seen Poppy wreaths but only at commonwealth cemetries.

I haven't seen anybody wearing any symbol of remembrance since I came here, not even any of the British people we know. There is a war memorial near where I live and it is kept immaculately. The wreaths I have seen there are either Poppy or Laurel usually with a French Tricolour sash on them.

Terry

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Peasant by name, peasant by outlook. What do you know of dignity?

Well the americans probably call it best - trailer park trash talk, the germans the russians etc have similar terms.

"No Dignity" - Peasant go and learn.

Infraction given.

Fratton Fred

Stoner wrote: »

I visited Glasnevin graveyard recently and went on a tour, there is a memorial for the Irish men and women who died during WW2, it is the responsibility of the British War Memorial Group to maintain this monument, but they ignore it, as a result it has been taken under the wing of the graveyard and thankfully it is being cleaned up at the moment.

I presume you are talking about the Commonwealth War Graves commission, they are responsible for maintaining war cemetries and memorials. However, many memorials are maintained by local authorities and churches.

I would be surprised if they do "Ignore" it as they have a list of names on their website http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=91205&mode=1 I would suspect that they have agreed with the cemetary themselves that they will maintain it.