Shannon-Heathrow discussion [merged]

jbkenn

From RTE News

Aer Lingus is set to cease direct flights between Shannon and Heathrow and transfer the link to Aldergrove airport in Northern Ireland.

The official announcement will be made by the Aer Lingus chief executive Vermot Mannion after he meets Aer Lingus personnel in Shannon on Tuesday morning and then attends a news conference at Stormont on Tuesday afternoon.

Cute move by Mr. Mannion, slip it out on the Sunday of a bank holiday weekend, this is bad news for the region, how long before the transatlantic routes follow?.

jbkenn

Mr E

Wow that is bad news.... That flight is usually fairly full too. Doesn't make sense.

Hagar

No need to worry.
As long as you have the Ft. Bragg - Shannon - Baghdad flights you'll be fine.

lasno

Always some smart ass around

Hagar

lasno wrote:

Always some smart ass around

I do hope you're not referring to me, Direct personal abuse will result in me reporting your post and you possibly being banned.

1huge1

Belfast again... (sounds racist but this is not the first time i've heard of them taking our jobs and im sick of it at this stage)

I am also clueless as that flight is always full, I guess we wait till tuesday for the full statement

Oh and Hagar don't go throwing your mod powers around here, you meant to cause hassle by your comment and don't deny it

bazz26

This will have a real impact to me and the company I work for, anytime I on the Shannon to Heathrow flight it is always full or almost full, it really is a strange one.

Personally, it will add alot of hassel getting to London now as our UK office is located near Reading, very handy to get on the M4/M25 from Heathrow. Flying into Gatwick now means I will have to commute half way across London. Shame on you Aer Lingus!

The real winners here I think will be Ryan Air, flights to Stanstead, Gatwick and Luton will now jump up in price.

I wonder will some other carrier pick up the route?

jbkenn

Hagar wrote:

I do hope you're not referring to me, Direct personal abuse will result in me reporting your post and you possibly being banned.

We are talking about matters that may have serious economic implications for the Midwest region.

I will take the ban... Mod or not... piss off you twat

jbkenn

testicle

So what does this have to do with Limerick City? Are Limerick claiming Shannon Airport as their own, yet again?

vkid

testicle wrote:

So what does this have to do with Limerick City? Are Limerick claiming Shannon Airport as their own, yet again?

that is the most stupid comment I have read on here in ages. Bigger Picture involved. People from all over the mid west should be emailing their opinions to taoiseach@taoiseach.gov.ie
This will not go down well. make your voice heard!

Sierra Oscar

TmB wrote:

Wow that is bad news.... That flight is usually fairly full too. Doesn't make sense.

The Northern economy is growing...must think there is more potential up there.

Hagar

jbkenn wrote:

We are talking about matters that may have serious economic implications for the Midwest region.

I will take the ban... Mod or not... piss off you twat

jbkenn

I've reported you post as personal abuse.

If you are truly concerned about the economic implications that publicity can have on the Mid-West regions report a local drug dealer.

jbkenn

Hagar wrote:

I've reported you post as personal abuse.

I am quivering in my boots Hagar, if you have nothing of consequence to add to the discussion, take yourself and your infantile humour off somewhere you might be appreciated

If you are truly concerned about the economic implications that publicity can have on the Mid-West regions report a local drug dealer.

Sorry, don't know any, I do however know many business's and business people in the region this decision will have a severe impact on.

jbkenn

Sierra Oscar

jbkenn wrote:

Sorry, don't know any, I do however know many business's and business people in the region this decision will have a severe impact on.

jbkenn

No doubt - this is serious news for big business in the Limerick region. London is one of the biggest business hubs in the world...if company executives in Limerick cannot get to and from London...well I am sure some may re-think their involvement in the Limerick/Shannon region.

I would be weary of Dell for example...

Hagar

I don't expect you to quiver in your boots, I just expect the modicum of respect that would be afforded other posters.

Mr E

Drop the slagging match or you'll both be banned (Hagar for his childish comment and jbkenn for abuse).

jbkenn

Sierra Oscar wrote:

No doubt - this is serious news for big business in the Limerick region. London is one of the biggest business hubs in the world...if company executives in Limerick cannot get to and from London...well I am sure some may re-think their involvement in the Limerick/Shannon region.

I would be weary of Dell for example...

I am not worried about Mickey Dell, when Mickey decides to go, he will go, I am more concerned about local business and new startups in the region, have a look at the Shannon Airport website and see where you can go from Shannon, not great, at least with onward connections from Heathrow you can travel the world.

jbkenn

1huge1

Hagar for god sakes would you just leave this topic, you are totally deriving from the point and you started it all with your comment
'As long as you have the Ft. Bragg - Shannon - Baghdad flights you'll be fine.'
you meant to cause a stir by that message

Now back to the topic at hand people

As mentioned before this will be a more than good enough reason for ryanair to increase prices

Sierra Oscar

jbkenn wrote:

I am not worried about Mickey Dell, when Mickey decides to go, he will go, I am more concerned about local business and new startups in the region, have a look at the Shannon Airport website and see where you can go from Shannon, not great, at least with onward connections from Heathrow you can travel the world.

jbkenn

Im thinking of everyone too, don't get me wrong at all.;)

But everyone should be worried about big companies like Dell (It was an example) - if they go the local economy has the potential to be ruined...everyone will feel the backlash. Of course the same can be said for other companies. Its just if Dell and other big business leave...it will not look very good for those thinking of starting up in Limerick/Shannon.

And I know where you can and where you cannot go from Shannon.

parsi

shannon has decided to get in the ryanair bed and has failed to attract other carriers or maybe hasnt tried.....

both virgin and gb both gave up on shannon.

sad to say that there are nearly as many military routes as pax routes ex shannon which maybe shows where aer riata muppets expend their shmoozing skills.

Hagar

Excuse me, here is the sum total of my posts in this thread:

No need to worry.
As long as you have the Ft. Bragg - Shannon - Baghdad flights you'll be fine.

I do hope you're not referring to me, Direct personal abuse will result in me reporting your post and you possibly being banned

I've reported your post as personal abuse.

If you are truly concerned about the economic implications that publicity can have on the Mid-West regions report a local drug dealer.

I don't expect you to quiver in your boots, I just expect the modicum of respect that would be afforded other posters

If you intend to ban me for that, I must inform you that I will take the matter to feedback.

Sierra Oscar

vkid wrote:

that is the most stupid comment I have read on here in ages. Bigger Picture involved. People from all over the mid west should be emailing their opinions to taoiseach@taoiseach.gov.ie
This will not go down well. make your voice heard!

Bertie is down in Kerry enjoying the err...rain?;)

Anyway - On Tuesday I am sure we will hear a lot of complaints on this issue.

Mr E

KEEP ..... IT ..... ON ..... TOPIC.
Last warning.

Hagar - you're original post started the whole issue, so put your halo away.

Hagar

1huge1 wrote:

Hagar for god sakes would you just leave this topic, you are totally deriving from the point and you started it all with your comment
'As long as you have the Ft. Bragg - Shannon - Baghdad flights you'll be fine.'
you meant to cause a stir by that message

I'm prepared to leave as long as I'm not relevent.
Is there any truth in what I said?

Amazotheamazing

Wow, Hagar, you'd think a mod of the humour forum would actually have sense of humour.


This is very bad news for the entire region, and Connacht too. This is a massive blow to the Western Corridor. I'm extremely disappointed by this but ultimately not surprised.

Henry Ford III

I do not understand it at all.

The route is busy as is.

Hagar

I do indeed have a sense of humour.

But if you look closely I'm also Mod of Military and therefore cannot claim to be totally ignorant of the Military implications of the US in Shannon.

arch_stanton

I´ve flown in and out of Shannon several times recently and couldn't help noticing that about 80% of the flights on the boards were Ryanair. It´s great that they are providing the services but it´s not good for the airport to have all it´s eggs in Michael O´Leary´s basket.

Poxyshamrock

This is terrble news...really terrible news.
My uncle takes that flight about 2 times a month and alot of his colleagues do too...some take it 3 times a week.

Why do they have to take away Shannon's flight to one to Belfast?

This is what is going to happen in future if Ireland becomes "united"...and it doesn't stop at Transport. Things are looking good in NI and business is booming. ROI have to be seen to be helping NI boom thus Aer Lingus moves into Belast. If Ireland is a "whole" again. The Irish Government will have to fund NI with alot of things including Social Welfare/Unemployment Benefit of which NI has a high demand. The Irish Government will have to focus on the 6 counties and not the other 26 for social issues, transport, health and basically the same things they had to focus on for ROI...doing this will kill our economy and create more things like the removal of the Shannon-Heathrow Route to give it to Belfast but in every sector.

Schuhart

Poxyshamrock wrote:

The Irish Government will have to focus on the 6 counties and not the other 26 for social issues, transport, health and basically the same things they had to focus on for ROI...doing this will kill our economy and create more things like the removal of the Shannon-Heathrow Route to give it to Belfast but in every sector.

So have you always been a Unionist, or just since it was suggested that your uncle might have to travel with Ryanair?

Seriously, I'm not sure that you're taking into account just how much business Ireland lost as a result of Shannon's piracy on transatlantic routes. The Mid-West was given a massive advantage at great expense to the rest of the country - and at a time when, frankly, we needed the money. If the region failed to turn that into something sustainable, then our piles are bleeding for you, but tough. It cost the country enough and if you want to put a human face to what it cost try listening to Fairytale of New York. I think its time to give someone else a chance.

The move to Belfast is actually quite interesting, and offers the potential to shift some mindsets in addition to contributing to rebuilding what was our industrial heartland. I really hope that protests from Shannon supporters get the shrug-off they deserve, despite the signs in early media coverage of a desire to spin this as Shannon's loss rather than an all-Ireland gain.

Irish Wolf

Schuhart wrote:

I'm not sure that you're taking into account just how much business Ireland lost as a result of Shannon's piracy on transatlantic routes.

I searched through your post for a link or evidence to this - but found nothing substantial..

Care to expand your declaration of Shannon's piracy?

Poxyshamrock

Schuhart wrote:

So have you always been a Unionist, or just since it was suggested that your uncle might have to travel with Ryanair?

Unionist? HAHAHA

And as for the Ryanair thing. It's nothing to do with being snotty and having to fly with Aer Lingus. It means that you can no longer get to Heathrow from Shannon. Think of the inconvenience that will cause...business meetings, citybreaks in london, connecting flights to Australia etc.

billy the squid

Hagar wrote:

Excuse me, here is the sum total of my posts in this thread:








If you intend to ban me for that, I must inform you that I will take the matter to feedback.

You should also know that disputing a moderators adjudication (sp) in a thread and taking it off topic can also get you banned, which it has done for a week.

Mr E

In the interest of fairness, jbkenn has also been banned for a week for abuse.

Sponge Bob

The loss of the shannon heathrow flights is equally bad news for Galway, Heathrow is 2 hours from Stansted on the other side .

The ONLY bit good news is that the Galway-M50 trip will be near enough 2 hours by 2009 which is nearly what Galway -Shannon was on a friday before Ennis was bypassed.

A lot of Heathrow-Shannon traffic was UK trying to fly to Boston and other Aer Lingus US destinations. There was also a codeshare with American Airlines, I take it they are pulling out too.

There will be NO more Aer Lingus flights out of Shannon by the end of the summer season in 2008 I would now think

Schuhart

Irish Wolf wrote:

Care to expand your declaration of Shannon's piracy?

Does it need expansion? Or do you feel the compulsory stopover amounted to something else?

Poxyshamrock wrote:

Unionist? HAHAHA

So you don't mind this redeployment of resources within the country.

Poxyshamrock wrote:

It means that you can no longer get to Heathrow from Shannon. Think of the inconvenience that will cause...business meetings, citybreaks in london, connecting flights to Australia etc.

Presumably anyone travelling to London can (within reason) use a service to any airport there, not just Heathrow. And, in fairness, the country isn't exactly short of airports with services to London.

As for connecting flights, presumably Cork is reasonably accessible and if a side-benefit of this move is to promote scale in Cork Airport so that it can truly become self sustaining, all the better. (This is something Shannon never managed despite the expensive breaks given to it).

But there is yet another option. Shannon Airport management could get off its arse and attract in a flight from some other hub airport, if the demand for such a service truly exists. Its not as if the end of the Stopover isn't coming with plenty of warning. If people in the region are still operating with the mindset that the Government will hijack planes heading elsewhere and force them to land in Shannon, then they've only themselves to blame if they're left sitting on a big pile of nothing.

jbkenn

jbkenn wrote:

have a look at the Shannon Airport website and see where you can go from Shannon, not great, at least with onward connections from Heathrow you can travel the world.

jbkenn

While I accept that this EI decision is ridiculous especially with the load factors (I'll get back to that in a minute) but can't you pretty much have onward connections to any major airport in Europe via Dublin?Hows that any different to doing the same via heathrow?

Getting back to the decision,I cannot fathom it at all if the load factors are high.
It doesn't make economic sense unless basing the EI short haul planes at Shannon was costing more money than they were earning?
Is heathrow the only non U.S EI route from shannon? if so then they might be able to claim the basing costs there are too high vis a vis growing their time tables to other shannon to routes.

Michael O Leary must be laughing at this decision otherwise as it's highly illogical.

Schuhart

Tristrame wrote:

can't you pretty much have onward connections to any major airport in Europe via Dublin?Hows that any different to doing the same via heathrow?

That would involve admitting that Dublin should be seen as a national resource and developed accordingly - they'd rather pay homage to London.

Tristrame wrote:

It doesn't make economic sense unless basing the EI short haul planes at Shannon was costing more money than they were earning?
Is heathrow the only non U.S EI route from shannon? if so then they might be able to claim the basing costs there are too high vis a vis growing their time tables to other shannon to routes.

I'm not an insider, but from what I've heard you seem to be in the right space. Heathrow is the only non US EI route, so presumably the economies of scale aren't there to staff it with local crews which leaves you paying subsistance expenses. EI will be operating several services out of Belfast (it being a city of circa 600,000 souls) to various European destinations and they seem to intend to have Belfast based staff operating them.

Sierra Oscar

It seems that the Shannon Development Community heard nothing of this -

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0806/aerlingus.html?rss

Shannon Development, the regional economic development body for the Shannon area, has said it is very surprised to hear that Aer Lingus is to end its Shannon to Heathrow service.

It added that the Shannon to Heathrow route is a key service for business and tourism and a successful one for Aer Lingus and the region.

The group is very disappointed at the proposed withdrawal of the Shannon to Heathrow service and is seeking information and a meeting with Aer Lingus representatives as soon as possible.
Advertisement

Aer Lingus currently operates four flights a day from Shannon to Heathrow.

The official announcement of the transfer of flights is expected to be made by the company's Chief Executive Dermot Mannion after he meets Aer Lingus personnel in Shannon tomorrow morning.

He will then attend a news conference at Stormant in the afternoon.

It is not clear if there will be any lay-offs at Shannon but there are fears that more than 100 jobs could be lost at the airport.

The Aer Lingus move to Belfast will result in the creation of at least 100 jobs there.

Six services from Belfast to mainland Europe are also expected to be introduced by the airline.

The government have a large stake in Aer Lingus, is there anything they can do I wonder? Aer Lingus's first priority should be to the people of the Republic - not the North. In my opinion.

therecklessone

Sierra Oscar wrote:

The government have a large stake in Aer Lingus, is there anything they can do I wonder? Aer Lingus's first priority should be to the people of the Republic - not the North. In my opinion.

Aer Lingus are a private company, there first priority should be to their shareholders.

Unfortunately though Sierra,the government are not allowed thanks to E.U competition laws to order EI to opperate a SNN-LHR service if it's loss making or to subsidise it.

EI's first priority is to make a profit.
They will and should be asked to justify this decision with a good economic reason.The government as a share holder could ask them to do that and in theory,it could make things difficult for them if they are pulling out of this route if it does make a profit.
This is something we don't know for certain but it's the angle locals should take if I were them.

Schuhart

Sierra Oscar wrote:

Aer Lingus's first priority should be to the people of the Republic - not the North. In my opinion.

And I always associated Shannon with displaced Northern nationalists. I never realised Unionism was also so strong there.

Sierra Oscar

Tristrame wrote:

Unfortunately though Sierra,the government are not allowed thanks to E.U competition laws to order EI to opperate a SNN-LHR service if it's loss making or to subsidise it.

EI's first priority is to make a profit.
They will and should be asked to justify this decision with a good economic reason.The government as a share holder could ask them to do that and in theory,it could make things difficult for them if they are pulling out of this route if it does make a profit.
This is something we don't know for certain but it's the angle locals should take if I were them.

Indeed - It will be very interesting to see the reason behind the decision. No doubt a lot of public debate is in store...:)

@Schuhart - Whatever.

Sponge Bob

If AL pull out of Shannon or go summer only I will do my best never to fly with them again or send any business their way for any reason . Thats because I simply loathe Dublin Airport and that bloody M50

They have options on more a320s so if the problem is short term aircraft availability they should lease one or two for Belfast .

As Shannon-Heathrow is codeshared with BA I wonder if an appeal to Willie Walsh for BA to take over the route may be in order .

Business is business so **** Air Lingus.

vkid

According to a Clare TD this morning the loads were extra-ordinarily high on these flights. Political decision it seems and Shannon suffers again so i would say as a shareholder the government are well aware of what is happening and nothing will happen. Wonder what the unions will make of it though? Moving jobs to the north, part of the UK?

highlydebased

I will be setting up a petition to try save the flight (or persaude another airline to operate it). Wont be setting it up for another 10 days or so seeing as I am away

Sierra Oscar

vkid wrote:

According to a Clare TD this morning the loads were extra-ordinarily high on these flights. Political decision it seems and Shannon suffers again so i would say as a shareholder the government are well aware of what is happening and nothing will happen. Wonder what the unions will make of it though? Moving jobs to the north, part of the UK?

Who was the TD?

parsi

Time now for SFADCo and the Airport authority to get up off their collective asses and attract additional traffic to the airport. Relying on EI and FR is the height of madness.

Perhaps the Shannon workers should have spent their energies into promoting their airport rather than knocking Knock and Galway ?

I have visions of Micky O'Leary turning up tomorrow to suggest that his landing fees be recalculated now that he'll have a virtual stranglehold.

therecklessone

Why do people keep suggesting its a political decision?

Aer Lingus is a private company, do people really think they are acting on instructions from government?

More likely that Aer Lingus see Belfast as a growth area and would rather concentrate their resources there. They are due to announce up to six new routes from their new Belfast base.

vkid

Private company or not, the government are still the largest shareholder..

vkid

Sierra Oscar wrote:

Who was the TD?

Tony Kileen! who also questioned if it was political!
http://www.rte.ie/business/2007/0806/aerlingus.html