British terrorist threat - Is it only a matter of time here?

MooseJam

InFront wrote:

To say this is an ancient vendetta of a religion is just stupid.

and what should the punishment be, stoning ?

InFront

Was that supposed to be funny or clever, or were you even going for both?

irish_bob wrote:

this guy here ,IN FRONT , . this guy is the one who was participating in a discussion about stoning people to death in the islmaic forum
he felt that stoning to death had a place in society

I said that stoning is, based on my understanding of Shariah, among a number of possible death penalties under the Shariah.
I'm sure your intellect can cope with differentiating between an individual's personal opinions and their understanding of religious jurisprudence they have no control over... right?

Tbh Im pretty sick of having to re-explain myself on that. If you want, read the thread in full, just don't bother trying to misrepresent or lie about what I said for you own agenda.

MooseJam

InFront wrote:

Was that supposed to be funny or clever, or were you even going for both?

Funny, I got a chuckle out of it.

InFront wrote:

I'm sure your intellect can cope with differentiating between an individual's personal opinions and their understanding of religious jurisprudence they have no control over... right?

Sure I can and it's a shame your personal opinions haven't led you to give up following the religion, I guess it just doesn't bother you too much really

HelterSkelter

irish_bob, what about Irish born Muslims and Irish converts to Islam, what do you suggest we do with those?

And by the way, there were Muslims who disagreed with stoning to death in that thread you are talking about.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

darkman2 wrote:

Should we be concerned about terrorist threat level to Britain atm? Is it time we upped our act and stopped living in denial that eventually such a threat will reach our shores as it has done most European countries. How many of you think Islamic extremists would be so choosey as to make a distinction between ths country and the UK or any other western country? Its widely acknowledged within the European security agencies that Ireland is the weakest amongst them and needs to get its act together especially in the light of the scale of immigration here or will we learn the hard way how the real world works? Does anyone feel the Gardai are adequately equipped to deal with such threats? When you think about it all these loons in the UK have to do is hop on a boat to the easiest place to mount an operation in Europe imaginable. All of a sudden I get the impression we may be beginning to take our heads out of the sand and realise just how vulnerable we potentially are.

Do you agree/disagree with this?

concerning that it was the Irish trained most of the freedom fighters/terrorist around the world.... id say not to worry,
didn't we have our own little campaign over in the UK, so no i wouldn't worry

irish_bob

#Elites The only thing that they would have ANY reason to bomb, would be Shannon, and even that is a weak excuse.


your really are very naieve if you believe that
what makes you think irish infidels are any different , are you one of those people who thinks that just because everyone loves the irish and im being sarcastic when i say that , that the crazy islamists will tollerate our western way of life but not britains

wes

irish_bob wrote:

this guy here ,IN FRONT , . this guy is the one who was participating in a discussion about stoning people to death in the islmaic forum
he felt that stoning to death had a place in society and his mate in there thought stoning to death was no more barbaric than lethal injection

Basically, this ad hominem attack and various straw men arguments in his posts, are bloody funny as hell. Especially considering the pretty blatant bigotry in the previous posts. For some reason all Muslims are evil and responsible for the actions of a few.

HelterSkelter

HelterSkelter wrote:

irish_bob, what about Irish born Muslims and Irish converts to Islam, what do you suggest we do with those?

And by the way, there were Muslims who disagreed with stoning to death in that thread you are talking about.

What's wrong irish_bob, why do you ignore my questions? Do you not have an answer?

irish_bob

HelterSkelter Quote:
Originally Posted by HelterSkelter
irish_bob, what about Irish born Muslims and Irish converts to Islam, what do you suggest we do with those?

And by the way, there were Muslims who disagreed with stoning to death in that thread you are talking about.


What's wrong irish_bob, why do you ignore my questions? Do you not have an answer?


i said the country should not allow any more muslims to immigrate to here
i never said we should deport the muslims that are here , therefore converts who are here dont leave
we have a small muslim population here , hopefully small enough not to cause the kind of trouble they do in the uk, we also need to make sure they integrate , muslims in europe have never fully integrated, the best example is in the netherlands , one of thee most tollerant countries in the world

wes

irish_bob wrote:

someone mentioned earlier that we need to shut down the islamic forums
anyone that has ever ventured in there should agree with this sentiment , the views in there presented by muslims who live in this contry are truly chilling
i was in there the other day and the debate was over whether stoning to death was the best form of penalty by death, i witnessed intelligent articulate people casually debating all aspects of stoning and not a single muslims condemm it , many thought it was appropriate simply because the prophet approoved it

Again what you said here is wrong, just like in the Islam forum, there were Muslims who were against stoning including myself. I even repeated this in reply to your posts and yet you continue with your false claims in a different forum. So most of your post is made up accusation with no basis in reality. So why the consistence false claims your making? It doesn't make your case stronger, in fact it makes it even worse. Your posts are an example of bigotry, make false claims about a group of people for the purpose of demonization.

So you above reply seems to ignore the questions you've been asked about your claims. Why continue the charade?

The_B_Man

im hopin ireland is seen as too small to attack, and way down their list of priorities. although, i'd never have expected them to attack spain!

MrSquishSquash

The_B_Man wrote:

im hopin ireland is seen as too small to attack, and way down their list of priorities. although, i'd never have expected them to attack spain!

I thought Spain were actively taking part in either Iraq or Afghanistan before the Madrid bombings?

As for Ireland i'd say they'd hit is if they could, we're part of the "Western World" and they need to make headlines. It'd be naive to assume that because we haven't done anything to them we wouldn't be targeted.

It'd be a bit unusual to find morally conflicted suicide bombers with respect or high regard for the Irish way of life when the basic plan is take as many lives as possible!

coyote6

Referring back to the original topic: it seems that there is often talk and hand-wringing after an attack of some sort. Most of the angst is generated by the media to have "a story". Sadly it is human nature to put off preparations for what is perceived as an unlikely event. It often takes an event or incident to put measures into effect, usually too little too late.

One of the challenges is a balance between realistic, common sense measures and over or under reaction. As we have seen in the U.S. the government can use the "fear" related to these attacks to control people.

I hope that there are preparations being made in Ireland. I hope that training is being conducted behind the scenes to fill in weak areas of security. The knowledge of how to do this is out there and it is the responsibility of the "ones with the guns" to work hard to prepare to defend the nation.

The_B_Man

ireland isnt really that secure at all! msot of our security comes from the fact that most flights (US to Ireland, Eastern europe ot Ireland) have to go thru london before they get to ireland. even the ones going from england to ireland are put thru all the security measures. so it works kinda liek a firewall.

Franz Ferdinand

wes wrote:

Again what you said here is wrong, just like in the Islam forum, there were Muslims who were against stoning including myself. I even repeated this in reply to your posts and yet you continue with your false claims in a different forum.

In Ireland, Catholics who pick and choose the parts of their religion they want to believe or reject are labelled "A La Carte Catholics".

Are you an "A La Carte Muslim"?

irish_bob

the arguement that ireland wont be hit because were not involved in the iraq war is common among the kind of liberals who believe in the if i dont interfere with anyone , no one will interfere with me

oh and to the poster who accused me of being a biggot , ive no problem with being accused of being a biggot as long as i see my wishes for an end to muslim immigration carried out , its a small price to pay , another price im willing to pay is if im banned from boards , thats not a request by the way but curbing free speech is a muslim trademark

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

irish_bob wrote:

#Elites The only thing that they would have ANY reason to bomb, would be Shannon, and even that is a weak excuse.


your really are very naieve if you believe that
what makes you think irish infidels are any different , are you one of those people who thinks that just because everyone loves the irish and im being sarcastic when i say that , that the crazy islamists will tollerate our western way of life but not britains

its not 'our western way of life' that turns a normal devout peace loving Muslim into a crazy islamic terrorist. its the killing of their people that I think pees them off a just little, maybe even the expulsion of Arabs from Palestine in 1948 by the British, maybe even the blanket bombing of Afghanistan could be the 100k+ dead innocent civilians in Iraq.....and on and on and on

but i certainly don't think it is a trivial as what you say " our western way of life"

so ya, on that thought i would say we will be alright... but i wouldn't travel to England for a while, what with the Salman Rushdie's knighthood and all that.
they are in for some major incidents ahead... just hope all their meddiling over the years doesent come back to bite them in the bum, but i fear it is starting already....i hope I'm wrong.

Victor

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

In Ireland, Catholics who pick and choose the parts of their religion they want to believe or reject are labelled "A La Carte Catholics". Are you an "A La Carte Muslim"?

Islam doesn't have the same hierarchial structures as Roman Catholicism.

Indeed if you want to make parallels, Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox are sects, Christianity is a religion. Sunni and Shia sects, Islam is a religion.

wes

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

In Ireland, Catholics who pick and choose the parts of their religion they want to believe or reject are labelled "A La Carte Catholics".

Are you an "A La Carte Muslim"?

Um, no. There are more facets to Islam than are often presented. Things can be changed and need not be so rigid.

wes

irish_bob wrote:

the arguement that ireland wont be hit because were not involved in the iraq war is common among the kind of liberals who believe in the if i dont interfere with anyone , no one will interfere with me

oh and to the poster who accused me of being a biggot , ive no problem with being accused of being a biggot as long as i see my wishes for an end to muslim immigration carried out , its a small price to pay , another price im willing to pay is if im banned from boards , thats not a request by the way but curbing free speech is a muslim trademark

Your posts are bigoted and go against Western values, you don't seem to know what they are. So you should probably not talk about them so much. Simply put tin pot dictators practice collective punishment. This is what your suggesting. Western values tend not to emulate dictators, so your suggestion is rather odd. You seem to talk about Western values, but I don't think you get what they are.

Also I never said anything about asking for you to be banned. I don't think anyone else did for that matter. So your comment there makes no sense, just like you earlier posts. There seems to be no basis for what your saying. Really your posts get odder and odder and make less sense each and every time.

Here is some light reading on what Western values (and Human values should represent), the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Note articles 10 and 11 in particular, since your so love the concept of collective punishment.

BigEejit

I live in London now and muslim culture, dress (Hijab, Burqa etc), (in)famous muslims and of course atrocities perpertrated by muslims are a daily part of our news. There was a discussion on Nick Ferraris talk show on LBC a week or two ago and of course it was talking about the car 'bomb' in Glasgow. One of the people who called in was an ex-al qaeda/muslim extremist and who now works with the police to find as he called it 'attack vectors' and also give talks on the mindset of the suicide bombers.
He also pointed out that many clerics have not denounced the London bombings (and some have even lauded the bombings) and this could be seen by some muslims as tacit approval of them. Needless to say when people (some of whom may be slightly crazy) think that their religion may approve of bombing the infidels, its only a hop skip and jump until you have buses, planes and trains exploding.

He said that after 9/11 and 7/7, the sale of the common materials that make up homemade bombs had been closely regulated and monitored. So the bombers can no longer easily get hold of large quantities of fertilizer or other chemicals that when mixed together become explosive. Hence the petrol and gas cylinder 'bomb'. Are these materials sales being monitored in Ireland? I doubt it.

But then again Ireland has a tiny tiny fraction of the number of muslims that there are in even one city in the UK. Does this make Ireland safe? Not on your nelly, some of the most motivated extremists in Europe live a boat ride away.

Getting back to the guy on LBC, the thing that shocked me was that he said that al qaeda and most extremists were quite happy for everyone to believe that they were setting off bombs in London because of Britains involvement in Iraq/Afganistan. He said that young disaffected men in various cities in the UK were handpicked and groomed by some clerics and sent to islamic schools in Pakistan and elsewhere where they were basically brainwashed into becoming extremists and then trained into how to make bombs from common chemicals etc.
But the frightening thing was that they were taught that their potential targets are ANY non-muslims. They are astute enough to bomb targets that a part of the muslim community (not all, so get off your high horse mr islam forum mod) worldwide would think was a form of justice for the attacks on muslim countries, and be well received in many countries in the middle east.

The point of my post is, its not Irelands actual involvement in "The War On Terror" (which was pretty small tbh) but whether the extremists thought that the greater muslim community would find a <insert atrocity here> was suitable justice for our involvement.

BigEejit

It is important to note that I am not talking about ALL muslims being 'foaming at the mouth lunatics with a fetish for mass murder', just a tiny tiny part of a percent. The problem of course is that tiny tiny part of a percent works out to be thousands of people worldwide, and hundreds spread all over Europe.

wes

From the Independent.co.uk

Muslim groups 'appalled by sinister plot'

By Rob Sharp
Published: 02 July 2007

Community leaders were yesterday quick to condemn the terror attacks in Glasgow and London, while politicians played down fears of a backlash against British Muslims.

MPs, Muslim organisations and police chiefs were universal in their condemnation of events and emphasised the moderation of the vast majority of British Muslims. Mohammad Sarwar, the MP for Glasgow Central, led calls to condemn extremists who "brainwash" British-born Muslims, adding the Glasgow outrage had come as a major shock in a country in which mosques preach a moderate message.

He said: "This is a big surprise ... we were not expecting this type of incident in Scotland. This is the first incident that has happened in Glasgow and everybody is shocked and terrified."

Campaigners from the British Muslim Initiative issued a statement damning the incidents. A spokesman said: "We urge all British Muslims to fully co-operate with the authorities to apprehend and bring to justice the perpetrators."

The organisation's president Muhammad Sawalha added: "We are utterly appalled by this sinister plot and commend the professionalism of the security services in aborting it."

Osama Saeed, Scottish spokesman for the Muslim Association of Britain, said: "Terrorists do not care who they kill. We are seething with anger about this."

Police chiefs in areas where police inquiries are proceeding spoke out to calm the public. Staffordshire Police Chief Superintendent Steve Loxley said: "In spite of the current police activity, I do need to stress that there is no specific threat to our county."

Scotland's First Minister, Alex Salmond, played down the possibility of a backlash against Muslims in light of the attacks. He said: "I would expect Scotland to behave with its usual perfect good sense in these matters ... No community should feel under suspicion as a result of individual actions."

Plenty of Muslim leaders and groups have condemned the attack, here is one example. Unfortunately as 'BigEejit' put it the minority get more coverage.

HelterSkelter

wes wrote:

Plenty of Muslim leaders and groups have condemned the attack, here is one example. Unfortunately as 'BigEejit' put it the minority get more coverage.

It suits some people to ignore reports such as this.

stewie01

So dark,

your basic reasoning for ireland to be attacked by islamic fundamentalists is because we're neighbours to britian and dont have the security to prevent such an attack.
well then mexico must be absolutely sh1ting themselves for the first wave of attacks.

anyway I think the Al-q sympathisers in ireland would be logistical and financial support and not the actual retards that blow themselves up, so what would the point of bringing all that ''heat'' from the gaurds on themselves by bombing such a ridiculous target as ireland.

All the other european targets where colonial powers and in some way over the years have fecked with asia, middle east and africa and now its coming back to bite them in the ass. ireland as we all know were drunks. starving drunks that fought alot.

we need not worry

BigEejit

HelterSkelter wrote:

It suits some people to ignore reports such as this.

It suits the PC brigade to have their heads up their arses

Have a look at:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/010173.php

And read up on what Jihad actually means here. For some muslims it is their holy duty to expand the muslim faith, for others it is to kill the infidels.

You might even see here that until quite recently Pakastani madrasahs were training up terrorists from all over europe

HelterSkelter

BigEejit wrote:

Have a look at:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/010173.php

And read up on what Jihad actually means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#Jihad

You might even see here that until quite recently Pakastani madrasahs were training up terrorists from all over europe

I already know what Jihad is. Any why are you linking to anti-Islamic web sites? What is your point? Do you actually know any Muslims yourself? Have you asked them what they think about the attacks? Just because one arsehole in a Mosque in Yorkshire agrees with them it doesn't mean that all Muslims do.

HelterSkelter

BigEejit wrote:

And read up on what Jihad actually means here. For some muslims it is their holy duty to expand the muslim faith, for others it is to kill the infidels.

People have got to stop believeing this bollox about Muslims wanting to destroy our way of life and take over our lands. The simple fact is that if the West stops interfering in the affairs of Muslim countries and invading their lands then these terrorists will stop attacking us.

BigEejit

HelterSkelter wrote:

I already know what Jihad is. Any why are you linking to anti-Islamic web sites? What is your point? Do you actually know any Muslims yourself? Have you asked them what they think about the attacks? Just because one arsehole in a Mosque in Yorkshire agrees with them it doesn't mean that all Muslims do.

I was putting in the link to information about the Jihad just so people with agendas (/me looks at your sig -> www.boycottisrael.co.uk) make it out that Jihad is something unrelated to bombings.

As for the anti-islamic website (/me has another look at your sig) there was a clear link at the top of the page to the Times. I suppose the Times is anti-islamic now as well?

As for knowing any muslims, I know several in the community (as well as Sikhs, Jews, Hindu's) and I work with 2 of them. One born in the UK and one born in Egypt. Each of the people I discussed the bombings with were disgusted that the atrocities were linked with the muslim faith, but they also knew that there are some imam's/clerics did not denounce the atrocities. How many clerics? who knows, tell me how many priests didnt denounce the bombings the IRA did in the UK. You're making it out that it just one crackpot in yorkshire that praised it ... how many imam's praised the bombings in their sermons and no-one blew the whistle.

I am not saying that there are millions of budding suicide bombers in western Europe, but if you are saying that there are none you are in cloud cukoo land.

Franz Ferdinand

Victor wrote:

Islam doesn't have the same hierarchial structures as Roman Catholicism.

I see.
When you say 'heirarchical structures' are you referring to "The Holy Koran"?
I would've thought that - along with the Haditha - The Koran is not merely a 'heirarchical structure' but rather THE central element of the Islamic religion.

Please explain your point.
Are you saying Muslims can be 'A La Carte' with the Koran and the Haditha?