Supplements

squod

Aguing is a by-product of ego IMO. FWIW it gives me the schitz when I take it with whey. Some people I know find it very good for mass building, not so much me.

BobbyOLeary

Deleted User wrote: »

Hey all,


Just wondering what you guys think of Creatine;






An amazing product that, with the proper effort, will have you like Schwarzenegger in no time?

Or is it like those fad diets, where you start to make great progress, but the minute you slow down or stop using them, everything goes to shit on you?


Just looking to get some advice or insight if possible regarding it. The only other thread I could find was from 2002 and just involved a lot of arguing.

Creatine - Yay or nay? I go with meh. I gained a kilo in weight last time I used it and I was pretty energetic. Though this could have been to do with my spotless diet at the time either. Really I wouldn't worry about it unless the rest of your diet is good.

mcwilliams

Ok I recently but a tub of whey protein. I'm mew to this an was wondering how many grs of powder to add to each shake and how long after your workout should u take it.....

Just for the record-I'm 6'2 and 13 stone.

cookerj

Creatine is a naturally occurring substance in the body which works by drawing water into the muscle. It gives you muscle bulk and strength but yes it does decrease when you stop taking it, just like if you eat a good diet then start eating a sh1t one you'll lose momentum with training. I've worked with a good few sportspeople and trainers who've taken creatine, some swear by it and some decided to leave it off eventually. Never taken it myself.

One thing to remember that I've heard over and over again is that the main type of creatine on the market, monohydrate, is only effective for about 75% of people.

My issue with most sports supplements is that they're full of fillers, low quality protein made from chicken sternum, neurotoxins such as aspartame (the sweetener in diet coke), unnecessary sugars, artificial colours, flavourings etc.

Lucozade and Maximuscle are full of artifificial sweeteners like aspartame, saccharin and ascesulphame k, imo they seriously counteract the positive intended effects, aspartame contains formaldehyde for christ's sake. Anyway...

cookerj

mcwilliams wrote: »

Ok I recently but a tub of whey protein. I'm mew to this an was wondering how many grs of powder to add to each shake and how long after your workout should u take it.....

Just for the record-I'm 6'2 and 13 stone.

Within 30mins of training is grand. How much totally depends on what you're training for and what kind of shape you're in. If you're training hard a recovery product would be more effective for you - a mixture of protein and carbs to create an insulin spike which draws the protein into your muscles further. Even if you're on a low-carb diet. You also need to replace the fluids, vits and minerals lost during training which protein alone can't do.

If you're not training hard then just drink the protein within 30mins of training, 25-40g of it is enough. People often think the more the better but unless your gut's in great shape you're not absorbing it, just literally pissing your money down the drain.

cookerj

Esse85 wrote: »

Has anyone used these guys before http://www.stcnutrition.co.uk/products.html Their offering 3x 2.25kg tubs of whey for £60 which seems fantastic value.

I've googled them and came across the follow http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/STC-nutrition-m3740152.aspx

The general opinion seems to be that the taste is one of the best and the protein content is 83%.

Note: I am in no way promoting these guys, i have nothing to do with them. Im just interested in a potential good deal.

That stuff looks good to be fair, no aspartame aswell which is great. I don't like that there's taurine in their protein though, a lot of people like to have a shake after their evening workout/meal so it would mess with your sleep. 26.4g protein/serving is kind of average

mloc

cookerj wrote: »

My issue with most sports supplements is that they're full of fillers, low quality protein made from chicken sternum, neurotoxins such as aspartame (the sweetener in diet coke), unnecessary sugars, artificial colours, flavourings etc.

Lucozade and Maximuscle are full of artifificial sweeteners like aspartame, saccharin and ascesulphame k, imo they seriously counteract the positive intended effects, aspartame contains formaldehyde for christ's sake. Anyway...

I think you need to research your biochemistry/synthetic chemistry a bit more...

cookerj

mloc wrote: »

I think you need to research your biochemistry/synthetic chemistry a bit more...

Go ahead and tell me why you think that mloc

mloc

Most supplements are full of chicken sternum? Artificial sweeteners negate the benefit of sports supplements? I think those statements are a bit of an exaggeration.

Additionally, saying there's formaldehyde in aspartame is as accurate as saying there's benzene in Aspirin; it's incorrect.

cookerj

mloc wrote: »

Most supplements are full of chicken sternum? Artificial sweeteners negate the benefit of sports supplements? I think those statements are a bit of an exaggeration.

Additionally, saying there's formaldehyde in aspartame is as accurate as saying there's benzene in Aspirin; it's incorrect.

I didn't say most supplements are full of chicken sternum, I listed a series of ingredients, many of which can be found in the main sports supplements on the market.

Also I didn't say artificial sweeteners negate the benefits, I said counteract.

I certainly wouldn't be the first to say that aspartame breaks down into methanol and then formaldehyde. I understand formaldehyde is a natural metabolic by-product but that doesn't help all the cases of cold sores, skin complaints, digestive problems and symptoms of MS that have been documented to disappear once aspartame is removed from the diet.

mloc

cookerj wrote: »

I understand formaldehyde is a natural metabolic by-product but that doesn't help all the cases of cold sores, skin complaints, digestive problems and symptoms of MS that have been documented to disappear once aspartame is removed from the diet.

Until I see double blind, controlled studies indicating significant correlation, I don't buy it, nor anything else nutrition related.

PeakOutput

cookerj wrote: »

I didn't say most supplements are full of chicken sternum, I listed a series of ingredients, many of which can be found in the main sports supplements on the market.

id like to see which products you are refering to thanks so i can avoid them

cookerj

PeakOutput wrote: »

id like to see which products you are refering to thanks so i can avoid them

I'm not here to bash particular brands (though I admit I did mention some examples earlier) but in my experience there are some general rules of thumb.

1. Avoid products which contain the artificial sweeteners aspartame, acesulphame k and saccharin, there's a lot of controversy around them.
2. Any ingredients called "hydro bulge mix" or "super strength formula" etc are generally just fillers/sugars designed to lower the quality so that the product is cheaper for manufacturers to make OR they're nothing dressed up to be some fancy sh1t. Products should have clear ingredients.
3. Simple sugars such as dextrose and fructose, also sucrose (a fructose derivative) are needed in performance and recovery products to a certain degree but there's no need for any sugar in a simple protein formula - if there are sugars there they're lowering effectiveness and cheaper for the manufacturers.

I'm surprised that so many people on boards are into pure whey - casein is a lot better in some ways in my experience - slower-digesting so you (arguably) can absorb a lot more, good source of calcium. I'm not saying pure casein is necessarily the way to go but certainly a mix of the 2.

Whey appears to be pushed by the media for 1 very large reason: whey is a by-product of dairies which they have problems dumping, that's why so many dairies make sports supplements. Casein is more expensive for manufacturers aswell.

Anyone else into casein here?

Hanley

cookerj wrote: »

I'm not here to bash particular brands (though I admit I did mention some examples earlier) but in my experience there are some general rules of thumb.

1. Avoid products which contain the artificial sweeteners aspartame, acesulphame k and saccharin, there's a lot of controversy around them.
2. Any ingredients called "hydro bulge mix" or "super strength formula" etc are generally just fillers/sugars designed to lower the quality so that the product is cheaper for manufacturers to make OR they're nothing dressed up to be some fancy sh1t. Products should have clear ingredients.
3. Simple sugars such as dextrose and fructose, also sucrose (a fructose derivative) are needed in performance and recovery products to a certain degree but there's no need for any sugar in a simple protein formula - if there are sugars there they're lowering effectiveness and cheaper for the manufacturers.

I'm surprised that so many people on boards are into pure whey - casein is a lot better in some ways in my experience - slower-digesting so you (arguably) can absorb a lot more, good source of calcium. I'm not saying pure casein is necessarily the way to go but certainly a mix of the 2.

Whey appears to be pushed by the media for 1 very large reason: whey is a by-product of dairies which they have problems dumping, that's why so many dairies make sports supplements. Casein is more expensive for manufacturers aswell.

Anyone else into casein here?

Did you go to the Tony Quinn school of nutrition by any chance?

PeakOutput

cookerj wrote: »

I'm not here to bash particular brands

well having just checked the ingredients of all the supplements i have used i dont see any mention of asparteme or chicken sternum so i would like to see some ingredient lists backing up what you said

if you think they are as dangerous as you said dont you think you should let people know about this?

most of the ingredient lists for the basic products like protein creatine have always seemed very basic to me ie the protein a flavouring and maybe a thickener

mcwilliams

Ok I've started using whey protein as a pwo shake-about 40 grammes at a time. I workout each day or about an hour in the gym so end up having a pwo whey shake each day.

Basically I was just wondering how long would it take before u start noticing a gain in muscle?

PeakOutput

mcwilliams wrote: »

Ok I've started using whey protein as a pwo shake-about 40 grammes at a time. I workout each day or about an hour in the gym so end up having a pwo whey shake each day.

Basically I was just wondering how long would it take before u start noticing a gain in muscle?

the rest of your diet needs to be in order for the protein to make any difference

mcwilliams

I've been told that my diet is perfect for taking protein and was reccomended it by a trainer. So can anyone answer my question?

PeakOutput

mcwilliams wrote: »

I've been told that my diet is perfect for taking protein and was reccomended it by a trainer. So can anyone answer my question?

i would say you should see some weight gain in 4 weeks

cookerj

Hanley wrote: »

Did you go to the Tony Quinn school of nutrition by any chance?

Tony Quinn advocate pure casein from what I've heard so no.

cookerj

PeakOutput wrote: »

well having just checked the ingredients of all the supplements i have used i dont see any mention of asparteme or chicken sternum so i would like to see some ingredient lists backing up what you said

if you think they are as dangerous as you said dont you think you should let people know about this?

most of the ingredient lists for the basic products like protein creatine have always seemed very basic to me ie the protein a flavouring and maybe a thickener

Lucozade contains aspartame and acesulphame k in their protein powder, Maximuscle, Nutrition X, EAS and Optimum Nutrition contain acesulphame k, USN contains aspartame, Reflex contains aspartame AND acesulphame k in their protein, just for starters - you can see this on ingredients lists on their websites and sites where it is sold, also the tubs themselves obviously.

It's not always the basic protein powder that contains these though many of the creatines, gainers, recovery products do.

Chicken sternum would never be on an ingredients list as it's listed as protein, I personally know 2 manufacturers from the brands I listed above who use it, 2 more I've heard from pretty trustworthy sources. There's nothing particularly bad about eating sternum, it's just super low quality. Put in peanuts you get monkeys.

PeakOutput if people haven't done their research already I'm unlikely to change their minds, most people just don't seem to care as long as they get fast results. I'm not trying to bash certain brands, some people believe there's nothing wrong with such ingredients, all you can do is your research and make up your own mind. I've simply cited brands which contain ingredients I strongly believe to be unhealthy and unethical.

Most of us don't eat McDonalds every day even though it's cheap and tastes good (to some people anyway). Why don't we eat it all the time? We know it's not nutritious. Same goes for sports nutrition in my book, ie choose the best you can. Of course it's not always the most expensive that's the best quality whatsoever and I haven't found an absolute ideal brand yet but I'm working on it.

Hanley

cookerj wrote: »

PeakOutput if people haven't done their research already I'm unlikely to change their minds, most people just don't seem to care as long as they get fast results. Most of us don't eat McDonalds every day even though it's cheap and tastes good (to some people anyway). Why don't we eat it all the time? Same goes for sports nutrition in my book.

What?

cookerj

Hanley wrote: »

What?

see edit

injured365

What brands do you buy so cookerj????

PeakOutput

thanks for the explanation

dont the brands list the type of protein? like whey casein etc and chicken sternum would be reclaimed chicken so is that not what it would be down as?

im not trying to prove you wrong i only want to be clear for myself so i know what im putting in my body

BrthzDublin

Hi guys.As many shops in dublin that many products.Know only one thing,my best friend got his stock from usa.Guy will try to sell some stuff on sunday market in fairyhouse.Think they're best quality supplements around like dymatize,universal etc.just pleased me to post quick info to all of you.Proabably man will beat the prices all around.
example dymatize xpand 925g for 40e.

BigDuffman

Whats anyones experience with Optimum Nutrition? Looking at the whey protein and recovery 2:1:1?

cookerj

You're correct, the brands are supposed to list it as reclaimed chicken but it's very easy to cover it up as when powders are tested they're usually just analysed for protein content, it's very long and complicated to test for actual protein sources. Unfortunately it's really trade knowledge as to who's straight and who's not so don't get bogged down on that - buying brands that are reputable (not full of artificial stuff) is the best you can do for yourself in my experience.

Hydrogenated fat or creamer is another one - often listed as MCTs (medium chain triglycerides). I'm not saying all MCTs are bad but certainly the ones that are actually hydrogenated fat.

I'm not endorsing any brands here, if someone really wants to know they can PM me, I'm not trying to start a war, I just have a particular hatred for some of the artificial sweeteners.

Col200sx

I put this in here as there's plenty us gym-goers would benefit from this.

In the Holland & Barrett in Galway (not sure about other shops elsewhere), there's buy-one-get-cheaper-item-half-price.

So I've just stocked up on Maximuscle products at a very reasonable rate, €75 for 2 2kg tubs instead of the usual €50 each.

That deal is on everything until February 18th:)

(Mods feel free to move this if necessary)

Sangre

€75 for what? Whey? Ouch!