Supplements

g'em

N.B. Supplements are just like they say in the dictionary: “something added to complete a thing, make up for a deficiency, or extend or strengthen the whole”. Supplements should not be used to replace a wholefood, balanced diet.

The information below is to help clear up any confusion about what supplements really are. It will also provide a thread where all supplement discussions will be directed as the same questions invariably get asked and (hopefully) this thread will provide a one-stop resource to help you find the information you need. Ask questions about a particular supplement you want to use or provide feedback about something you've enjoyed or found beneficial. PLEASE USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION BEFORE POSTING A NEW QUESTION!!!


Whey Protein: The most common protein supplement available on the market is powdered whey protein. Whey is a type of protein that comes from milk, and it is one of the best quality proteins found in any food. It is quick to absorb and contains a full complement of amino acids. In other words, drinking a whey shake will provide you the same protein that an egg or a piece of chicken would, but it’s easier for your body to digest.

As a general rule of thumb, for anyone participating in sports or who regularly engages in strength training, your body will need extra protein to aid in recovery and regrowth and should therefore consume approximately 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight. The protein should primarily come from wholefoods but protein shakes can be used to delivery protein quickly post-workout and to make up for any shortcomings in protein intake throughout the day.

Whey proteins are usually provided as concentrates (whey plasma has all the liquid removed thereby concentrating the protein content into dry powdered form) and isolates (all fats and carbohydrates are removed leaving pure protein) or as a blend of both e.g. Whey from the Supplement Factory, Big Whey from Nutrition X, ON Whey, Pro Matrix from Nutrition X, Unflavoured Whey from BulkPowders.co.uk

Casein Protein: Another type of protein found in milk. Casein is a much slower protein to absorb and so is useful to use either on its own as a pre-bed snack or blended with whey as a meal replacement e.g. ON casein, Casein from the Supplement Factory.

Creatine: a substance that is found naturally in the human body, and aids in supplying energy to cells. When taken in supplement form can increase the creatine content of muscle, allowing for greater protein synthesis in the cells, reduces muscle acidity (lactic acid build-up) and allows for a greater volume of exercise with less recovery time needed.

There are two types of creatine on the market: creatine monohydrate and creatine ethyl ester. The vast majority of the last ten years’ worth of creatine studies have been done with creatine monohydrate and as a newcomer to the supplement scene CEE is yet to be fully tested in action.

e.g. creatine from BulkPowders.co.uk, Cell X or Creatine from Nutrition X, Cell or Creatine from the Supplement Factory.

Post-Workout Supplements: These will generally come in the form of carb-only or carb + protein. Following intense exercise the body’s stored energy (glycogen) will be diminished and consuming a PWO shake or drink will allow the body to replenish glycogen stores quickly and aid recovery. The presence of protein in the PWO supplement will also aid muscle repair and aid protein synthesis e.g. RAM from Nutrition X, Cell Mass from BSN, Recovery from the Supplement Factory.


Courtesy of meijin here's a price comparison of few proteins (mostly unflavoured, except ON), here is a table with price per kg of pure protein and multiplier

brand|name|kg per box|% of protein|price (EUR)|price/kg of prot.|price comp
bulkpowders|0.82|5|82%|45.14|11.01|1|
myprotein|Impact Whey Protein|5|78%|53.29|13.59|1.23|
bulkpowders|0.9|5|90%|67.79|15.06|1.37|
bulkpowders|0.97|5|97%|90.39|18.64|1.69|
myprotein|Impact Whey Isolate|4|89%|74.99|21.06|1.91|
ON|Gold Standard|4.54|82%|110|29.68|2.7|
bulkpowders|Hemp|5|47%|73.44|31.25|2.84|
myprotein|Hydrolysed|2.5|80%|63.29|31.65|2.87|
myprotein|Hemp|2.5|47%|54.89|47.05|4.27|
ON|Platinum Hydrowhey|1.588|77%|79.95|65.45|5.94|

gabgab

Hey G'em,

Thanks a million for doing this its much appreciated.

Could you possibly explain to me what the theory is behind mass gainers, in terms of ballpark suggestions on numbers in the following situation.

Take a chap that is 15% bodyfat, good clean diet, 6 meals, nice mix of clean foods, heavy weights and small amount of cardio.

If you take a mass gainer, http://www.thesupplementfactory.com/product_info.php?products_id=4 say twice a day, how much of the mass gains are going to be fat. Or do you know approxamitely, will you gain 4/5lbs in a month but will your bodyfat increase significantly too??

the reason I ask is that I dont get the bulk and cut idea, can you not just add clean size and leave it at that?

sorry its so long,

g'em

The only real 'theory' behind mass gainers is that they have a lot of calories in the form of carbohydrates which are easier for your body to gain "weight" from and will provide you with plenty of energy.

If you find that you really struggle to take in enough calories each day in the form of food, then sure, a weight gainer can be handy to get the extra calories in. But the truth is that a serving (3 scoops) of Mass Gainer gives you only a small amount more protein than one scoop of whey (32g in mg vs 24g in whey) so the excess is going to have to go somewhere. Personally I'd be more inclined to increase protein and fats sooner than upping carbs.

You can't really say with any certainty how much of your calorie intake will become fat and how much will be muscle, because it's so factor-dependent. Having said that, aiming for gaining 0.5-1lb of muscle a week is realistic and if you find the scales showing a lot more than that, in all likelihood it won't be purely lean mass.

gabgab

Thanks a million for that G'em.

rubadub

PWO recipies were mentioned in another thread. It should be mentioned that glucose can be got cheaply in supermarkets, and the usual proportions in PWO are 2 parts glucose/dextrose to 1 part protein by weight (not scoops).

Maybe mention that some people will use whey with milk to mimic the casein slow release effect at night.

You can get whey cheap in bulk and then use it for all 3 things.

Also maybe mention things to look out for, e.g. "blends", like creatine that is mixed with carbs, it may appear to be a good buy if you only look at weights and not realise it is really mainly sugar.

Khannie

Repost by request:

Fair play to ye. Good post. One suggestion: Add a "make your own PWO shake" bit maybe?

G'em wrote:

Sounds good, one problem: I don't know what to put in it

G'em....if you don't know what to put in a PWO shake....the rest of us are ****ed tbh.

Rubadub's covered the basics of what I know. bulkpowders praise waxy maize starch as being faster absorbed than dextrose / glucose, but it is more expensive.

g'em

Khannie wrote: »

G'em....if you don't know what to put in a PWO shake....the rest of us are ****ed tbh.

lol

There are some super-fancy fandangled home-made pwo shake recipes out there but I guess if you stuck to the simple idea of having simple carbs with protein in a ratio of 2:1 like rubadub suggested you'd be doing really well. Use approximately 0.5 - 0.8g of carbs per kg of body weight (common sense applies here - if you're losing weight use the smaller allocation of carbs; if you're bulking or you've done a heavy squat session, carb up ) and obviously the protein will be half that amount. Creatine and glutamine are optional added extras.

As for the waxy maize starch... the jury is still out on that one. The research doesn't support it (yet) but it's only new on the scene so it'll be a while before anything is on paper; afaik much of work is being headlined in the University of Nottingham. If you're just starting out with home-made shakes a cheap bag of dextrose from the supermarket will work just fine.

les_steaks

Thanks for the G'em.

I'd generally take a whey shake in the morning, another at night and one post workout.

Reading your post would it make more sense if I have different types i.e.

Whey in the morning
PWO post workout
Casein at night

I'm using O.N. Gold Standard 100 %. Can you recommend a low carb PWO and a good casein shake to use?

Thanks,

Les

g'em

For 90% of people, a plain whey will provide all they need in regard to their protein supplementation needs. If you have the spare bucks to spend, sure get a tub of casein, but cottage cheese will do the same job

As for the PWO, if you're an athlete or play sports a lot then an appropriate shake would definitely help with recovery. But if your primary goal is fat loss then some whey post-workout followed by a decent meal an hour later would be fine. There really isn't such a thing as a 'low carb PWO shake' as the point of a pwo supplement is carb delivery!

ON Gold standard is a good whey, so stick with it for hte time being. If you want to drink it before bed instead of casein, just add a small amount of flax or olive oil as the fats help slow down absorption.

darrenoneill33

Hi guys, i've a tub of protein that was opened about 3 months ago but not used since. Is that safe and ok to use? is there any time limit on how quickly protein should be used. Thanks....

g'em

If it has been kept dry and away from excessive heat/ cold then it'll be just dandy, so use it without fear

darrenoneill33

thank you!

The Freeman

i currently put in a couple squirt or 2 of honey, a banana and a bout 20g of peanuts, but am getting sick of it now to be honest and looking for a differant flavour, what do ye chaps stick in the shakes to spice it up a bit?

Mhmm...weetabix

The Freeman wrote: »

i currently put in a couple squirt or 2 of honey, a banana and a bout 20g of peanuts, but am getting sick of it now to be honest and looking for a differant flavour, what do ye chaps stick in the shakes to spice it up a bit?

Vinegar. I dont do it for the taste
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/vinegar-lemon-juice-pwo-superior-recovery-fat-loss-430824/

Piste

Even though my protein is "chcolate flavour" it still tastes pretty nasty so I put in 1-2 teaspoons of 100% cocoa powder. I can -almost- kid myself I'm drinking a milkshake then!

deant

Anyone try to and half a can of tuna or some oats with their shake?
I just cant eat tuna on its own.

BossArky

Yes, I have just started putting oats in my shakes. The water, whey and oats mix nicely. It makes the shake a bit more exciting if you are bored with just water and whey.

Use about 400 ml of water, a scope of whey and about one third to a half of a cup of oats.

I used to blend tuna into stuff for shakes previously. To be honest it wasn't worth the effort / gagging.

rubadub

AHHHH,:eek: I thought I had blocked those tuna shakes out of my memory!

You could try masking the tuna with hot curry sauce.

I find pineapple juice, or a can of pineapple chunks in juice with unflavoured whey is nice, put in ice and liquidise for a ice cold pina colada type drink.

Instead of boring glucose I get these sugary cakes, low in fat, full of simple carbs, sugar & wheat flour. I use PWO time to indulge in snacks, a rake of cakes washed down with an ice cold strawberry milkshake. You can sort of call these supplements as they are not part of my normal daily diet. Many will use grape juice for carbs with creatine or PWO, grape juice is around 14-16% carbs, while most fruit juice is 10-11%.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Creatine question: I have some Creatine Monohydrate, and it says it needs to be mixed with warm / hot water. Does it really need to be mixed with warm water or can I just chuck it into my PWO shake?
Thanks,
Also Thanks to G'em for starting the thread

g'em

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote: »

I have some Creatine Monohydrate, and it says it needs to be mixed with warm / hot water. Does it really need to be mixed with warm water or can I just chuck it into my PWO shake?

afaik the warm/ hot water is just to help the creatine dissolve properly. There's very differing advice out there with some companies saying do mix with water and some saying don't but no solid reasons as to why to do either i.e. there's no reports of variability of absorption in either cold, warm or hot water. Chucking it into your PWO shake (with some carbs for delivery) should be fine.

FunkZ

BossArky wrote: »

Yes, I have just started putting oats in my shakes. The water, whey and oats mix nicely. It makes the shake a bit more exciting if you are bored with just water and whey.

Use about 400 ml of water, a scope of whey and about one third to a half of a cup of oats.

I used to blend tuna into stuff for shakes previously. To be honest it wasn't worth the effort / gagging.

Hey BossArky!
I use 400ml of water, 2 scoops of whey and 100g of oats. Shake up the prtein first, the I'd add the oats. Shake it up again, drinking the liquids from the shaker and then take off the lid and put the oats in a bowl and eat 'em!


Tuna sounds horrible in a shake!

Jonny303

i used 2 have that trouble with eating tuna. now just drain it, leave it in the can, sqeaze a lemon (or half if its only a small tin) and a bita black pepper, and i actually now find myself looking for tuna before other things!

on shakes...

breakfast starts off for me with scoop of protein, 50g of oats (thats just over half a cup), banana, frozen rasberrys (get them real cheap now, go to a fruit farm and get jam raspeberrys) lash in my creatine and then just top it up with milk til its about 600 ml in total. Lovely!

Biff11

promax meal bars

Yay or nay?

What are peoples feelings on these

Southern Dandy

I wana start taken creatine as apart of my training programme to build a bit o size and strength, i already use maxi muscle progain and optimum nutrition 100% whey protein but im wondering is it alright to use all 3 or should i drop lets say the weight gainer for the creatine, also any ideas on a good name brand that'll give me fast all round results (ie size)?

Cheers lads

Dubdude

So i got myself a tub of explode 2 y'day and took 2 scoops wit about 350ml of water for the 1st time before i trainded today and well lets just say it does exactly what it says on the tub... holy s**t i couldnt believe the effect it had on me during my training session today one word just describes it.... WOW

the flananator

I've been on this stuff on and off for over a year now and am starting to question how good it is. Can anyone give me their opinion on it? Thanks:)

BossArky

I used H&B whey for the past 9 months and cannot complain as I made significant strength gains.

There are various factors to consider though - diet, training, sleep and the whey. If you are taking the best supplement and lacking in the other areas you won't see much improvement. Likewise, you could have the worst supplement, and be doing grand in the other areas.. and do well for yourself.

Apparently H&B whey is crap from what I have read, so I now buy my stuff online for recommended sources (myprotein.co.uk)--> huge savings. Too early to tell if the new whey is any better or not.

the flananator

Hmmmm just having a look at that site now. Not sure what I should be looking for though? What differentiates "good" protein from "bad" protein?

Also, you're the second person to mention "sleep" to me as a factor. What does this mean?

BaZmO*

the flananator wrote: »

Also, you're the second person to mention "sleep" to me as a factor. What does this mean?

Quite simple really, your body needs rest to recuperate from excercise and to grow new muscle. The best way to aid this is to get plenty of sleep.

BossArky

the flananator wrote: »

Hmmmm just having a look at that site now.

If you are based in Ireland you should be looking at an Irish site for protein. I'm sure one of the other good folk on here can provide a link. The only reason I use that one is 'cos I'm London based.

the flananator

Ah. Ok thanks. So can anyone gimme a hook-up?

g'em

Try here or check some of the individual brands here

dave80

the flananator wrote: »

Ah. Ok thanks. So can anyone gimme a hook-up?

try www.thesupplementfactory.com there an irish company good products at great prices

unreggd

Ordered Whey from the Supplement Factory

Great value @ €29.99 for the 5lb tub

Got Vanilla, and it tastes grand

Delivered by a courier who rang me when no1 answered the door [yes.. i was sleepin in ]


Great transaction, will defo be orderin from them in teh future

DRakE

unreggd wrote: »

Ordered Whey from the Supplement Factory

Great value @ €29.99 for the 5lb tub

Got Vanilla, and it tastes grand

Delivered by a courier who rang me when no1 answered the door [yes.. i was sleepin in ]


Great transaction, will defo be orderin from them in teh future

Just ordered Whey from them too, Strawberry..
can you recommend how much to use? like, one in the morning, one at night? 3 a day?

NotMe

unreggd wrote: »

Great value @ €29.99 for the 5lb tub

Yeah I got some there the other day. My brother bought a 5lb tub of whey from Holland & Barretts recently for €60 (on sale from €75!) and wasn't too happy when I told him he could've gotten it online for half that.

unreggd

NotMe wrote: »

Yeah I got some there the other day. My brother bought a 5lb tub of whey from Holland & Barretts recently for €60 (on sale from €75!) and wasn't too happy when I told him he could've gotten it online for half that.

I'd be more concerned about the fact that the H&B whey tastes like muck!!

Luckily I only lost €15 on the one i got

DRakE wrote: »

Just ordered Whey from them too, Strawberry..
can you recommend how much to use? like, one in the morning, one at night? 3 a day?

Well, its a supplement, so shouldnt replace proper food.
I have it as my PWO shake
Add a scoop to my porrige in the mornin, & have a shake with milk before bed for slow digestion/release

DRakE

Cool thanks dude

edit: i assume you make it up and bring it with you to the gym, you dont wait til you get home to take one?

unreggd

Yeah, makin the shake is the last thing I do before I leave my house for the gym, and I drink it after my workout, before my shower, then have my pwo meal when I get home

Piste

Would the shake not start to separate and go all nasty if you're leaving it in a flask during your workout?

tribulus

You add in the water at the end.

BossArky

• You bring the dry whey to the gym in the shaker along with dry oats or whatever else.
• Add water and mix up as you leave the gym.
• Eat with a banana on the way home.

unreggd

Nope. I make it in a blender so its well dissolved. its settles a tiny bit, but i just shake it a little before I drink it

Piste

Are these shaker yokes basically just flasks or are they some sort of special thing for whey shakes?

DRakE

just got my Whey from the supplement factory, i have to say i'm very impressed with them. Ordered on Wednesday evening, arrived just now from a courier

Strawberry, tastes lovely too!

BossArky

Piste wrote: »

Are these shaker yokes basically just flasks or are they some sort of special thing for whey shakes?

A shaker is just a plastic bottle that you can fill up and shake around without any messy leakage. Most sports stores should have a few different types. They have a larger opening that the type you would have for a cycling bottle.

My current one is totally leak proof still after 9 months usage. I bought one in the US and it had more holes than the backroad to Cashel :mad:

dave80

BossArky wrote: »

My current one is totally leak proof still after 9 months usage.

i had one for about 8 years and only had to bin it the other day, bough one of the maximuscle one's a couple of months back and its starting to leak already!!

kmart6

unreggd wrote: »

Nope. I make it in a blender so its well dissolved. its settles a tiny bit, but i just shake it a little before I drink it

What do you mix the Whey with?!

tribulus

Water usually, some people use milk. Probably best to use water straight after training.

kmart6

Saw somone say something bout oats in it or something!?

unreggd

yeah, people generally throw in a few oats

I make mine with:

1/2 scoops of whey
some oats
a banana
a little milk
200ml water


You should have it with water after your workout for faster absorption, and with milk before bed for slower absorption to last longer as you sleep