Should IT be legalised?

meditraitor

CiaranC wrote:

Tbh, my health is none of your business.


.

Well you might have taken that comment out of context(it wasnt a general comment just a reply to a post from scumlord), but it is my business if you develope psycosis from cannabis use.

Who is going to pay for your health care- the tax payer!

And just a note on your holland has lower cannabis use argument, the dutch always had below average drug use even before de-regulation, they have a different social attitute to it, similar to continental attitudes to alcohol.
The Irish on the other hand have been in the above average top 3 in europe drug consumption category for years now, why make the problem worse when it seems we cannot in the whole as a nation enjoy drugs responsibly?

PS Amsterdam is in an awfull mess, the dark underbelly is partly due to drugs, lately dublin has had an brutal reputation for violance and murders,but it doesnt have a patch on amsterdam per capa
Dublin is 1.9 per 100,000


Amsterdam is 7.7 per 100,000
Quit a utopia

ScumLord

Being one of the "anti" people in this thread I can honestly say I dont mind people getting high, within certain boundries use of recreational drugs is ok in my book,

So it's ok for people to smoke as long as it's done ilegaly and supports orginised crime.

Over the space of many years I have seen friends and family fall prey to various different drugs and their effects.

I've been smoking for around 9 years I've met stoners from the age of 16 all the way up to 60, some are ****ed up and abuse cannabis but I wouldn't lay the blame of that on the drug. The really ****ed up people are always doing loads of other drugs I've seen people that do 20 yolks a day, oz of coke over 3-4 days and I think these people are being viewed as stoners and giving us a bad reputation. The vast majority of stoners that I know are perfectly normal people, with jobs. I know stoners, and I have yet to met a stoner who avoids the other drugs, that's ****ed up like you discribed.

Is your health not a good enough reason?

I smoke, I drink, I don't get enough excersise, sometimes I sit to close to the tele. These have side effects in the same league as smoking cannabis.

How would you weed out the vunerable people,

There are always vunerable people, that are vunerable to lots of things. People make mistakes and others just can't handle certian things. There are people that have tried cannabis had a bad reaction and will never smoke again. We can't restrict the rights of everyone just because a minority are vunerable. Should we ban nuts because some have alerges? No we put a warning on the pack.

Say for example you have kids at some time in the future(maybe you have some now) and your 16 year old son/daughter was into his/her marajuana,

I wouldn't let my kids do any form of drug legal or not. We're not talking about letting kids do drugs we're on about the rights of adults. They have nothing to do with this dicussion.

And the only reason cannabis will not be legalised in Ireland is that the pro-dopes cannot put forward a good enough plan for such an action to take place!

I'd agree with that, I've been a member ot one or two legalise groups. I drove to dublin for a meeting and no one showed up! For some it's cool but I've been on the recieving end of the law and now it's personal. everything about being arrested pissed me off, from the cops who came in calling me everything under the sun to the court day where violent thugs got off with warnings, two guys left the station covered in blood from fighting each other and they where best freinds with the cops (they'd been in on several occasions from the sounds of things. I did nothing to nobody and I'm the scumbag.

Your simplistic version of a way to legalise cannabis leaves more questions than answers

It is simple in my mind, it doesn't do that much harm, it's not addictive. It doesn't turn people into violent thugs, it wouldn't cause crime if legalised, it would be a great industry for Irish famers (hemp that is), it would be a great replacement for alcohol even if the country did abuse it.

It is not SAFE, I never said it was , no one has said that. It has harmful side effects there is nothing on this planet that doesn't have harmful side effects. Can it be used responcibly? In my experience it can. Ok? It's not safe. Stop saying we keep saying it's safe.

why make the problem worse when it seems we cannot in the whole as a nation enjoy drugs responsibly?

Would it make the problem worse? Sorry but I see this as scare mongering, we can't say for sure what would happen but it can only get better as far as I can see. People aren't going to become stoners just because they can we still have jobs to go to. Leagalising cannabis would also criple drug dealers.

I know you see it as pointless making a drug legal, I can see your point. Why do we need another drug? You don't like drugs, you won't do them and no one's going to force you to do them, your not an impressional teenager anymore. You don't mind me doing them do you? So why not let me do them in a socialy responcible manner?

Amstedam does seem to be a bit of a haven for scumbags, although I've been there twice for week long periods and didn't see any of this, the stats are there. All they've done is decriminalised it though, they left the power in the hands of the criminals. Legalising would mean legit businesses would be in control.

Gurgle

meditraitor wrote:

Say for example you have kids at some time in the future(maybe you have some now) and your 16 year old son/daughter was into his/her marajuana, smoking a dooby in the morning, getting caked every night with a bunch of other smokers and generally just being a smoker would you have no worrys about it effects on them? knowing what you know about the possible harm it can do to them.

Say your 16 year old son/daughter was into his/her booze, downing a double vodka in the morning, getting pissed every night with a bunch of other drinkers and generally just being a piss-head, would you have no worrys about it effects on them?

Oh, its OK, we'll just bring in a law banning alcohol.
Problem solved, it will never happen again!
:rolleyes:

Floodzie

meditraitor wrote:

Edit, just something for you to ponder
Say for example you have kids at some time in the future(maybe you have some now) and your 16 year old son/daughter was into his/her marajuana, smoking a dooby in the morning, getting caked every night with a bunch of other smokers and generally just being a smoker would you have no worrys about it effects on them? knowing what you know about the possible harm it can do to them.

Kids already get cannabis. Legalization will enforce ID checks and make it that much more difficult for them. Not much of an improvement as they can get an older friend to get it for them, but it's better than the system we have.

...and quality will be improved and the armed gangs taken out of the equation.

But no, i wouldn't want kids smoking it - but they do under current legislation. What's your point? Legalization ensures i don't end up in court and armed gangs aren't fighing over turf for what is and will always remain one of the most popular drugs in Ireland (the others being tobacco and alcohol - would you rather there were no ID checks for them and supply handled by gangs, too?).

Floodzie

And where's Julep today?

Out getting high as a result of our persuasive arguments, no doubt.

Dinxminx

Sorry but what's Mary Jane?


EDIT: Oh right, marijuana. Sorry, carry on! *blushes*

Léan

meditraitor wrote:

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1440-1614.2000.00685.x/abs/



http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/004243.html





schiz·o·phre·ni·a (skts-frn-, -frn-) Pronunciation Key
n.
Any of a group of psychotic disorders usually characterized by withdrawal from reality, illogical patterns of thinking, delusions, and hallucinations, and accompanied in varying degrees by other emotional, behavioral, or intellectual disturbances. Schizophrenia is associated with dopamine imbalances in the brain and defects of the frontal lobe and is caused by genetic, other biological, and psychosocial factors



Maybe you should stop smoking brother/Sister

I'm sorry, but there seems to be something reoccurring here.

Conclusions: It is still unclear whether this means that cannabis use precipitates schizophrenia,

The take home message is that marijuana / cannabis seems to be very bad for the brain, in many different ways.

I said it before and I'll say it again. It's a very shady area.
I really do think that there's a hell of a lot more to be explored and researched as regards to Cannabis use and schizophrenia.


One of the articles you posted there about memory loss and all that. I do agree that is a negative effect of smoking, but then again i think it depends on the person. I'm surprised they didn't mention motivation, as speaking for myself, and a lot of people i know, rather then leaving you with a bad memory (which i don't think i have) heavy use does leave you (temporarily) unmotivated.

Maybe that's just me. XDD

JC 2K3

meditraitor wrote:

How would you weed out the vunerable people, maybe you could have psycoanalysis before being issued with a licence to purchase soft drugs in this legailsed environment, do you just give anyone and everyone access to these drug?

This is what drives me round the bend when participating in the legalising drugs argument. The anti-drug people seem to always pick the worst case scenario and proclaim that that will happen if legalisation happens. FFS, of course you don't give everyone access to the drug, what do you think half the god damn argument for legalising cannabis is? REGULATION. Stopping kids from getting it so easily, giving people accurate information on it when they buy it, avoiding hash that's laced/cut with nasty stuff. Why is it that the anti-legalisation people have to presume legalising it will mean unregulated mass distribution?

meditraitor wrote:

Your simplistic version of a way to legalise cannabis leaves more questions than answers

No one's given a simplistic way to legalise it. Right now we're arguing that the situation could be made better by legalising it, not the specific regulations that would have to be in place if it was to be legalised. Why have such a "No way, no how" attitude towards it?

meditraitor wrote:

And the only reason cannabis will not be legalised in Ireland is that the pro-dopes cannot put forward a good enough plan for such an action to take place!

Besides the demonised status in the eyes of the majority of society... You do have a point, but you can't start drawing up exact plans for regulation etc. until the idea that cannabis could be legalised is no longer a laughable concept.

meditraitor wrote:

Edit, just something for you to ponder
Say for example you have kids at some time in the future(maybe you have some now) and your 16 year old son/daughter was into his/her marajuana, smoking a dooby in the morning, getting caked every night with a bunch of other smokers and generally just being a smoker would you have no worrys about it effects on them? knowing what you know about the possible harm it can do to them.

Hell yeah I'd be worried, but I'd be worried too if they were smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol etc. But I wouldn't want cigarettes or alcohol to be illegal, I'd want stricter regulation and better, proper education on how to use substances correctly(none of this Reefer Madness crap).

It is my personal opinion that a whole new drugs legislation should be introduced, placing strict advertising restrictions on drug companies(including alcohol), making proper, objective information on all drugs widely available etc.

Shellie13

Piste wrote:

If it were legalised wouldn't there still be dealers (albeit much less of them) around willing to sell hash at a much cheaper price then the inevitably highly-taxed hash?

Alcohols expensive n high taxed yet i dont see enough scum bootleggin it in here for my liking!!!

User45701

jester77 wrote:

Must be a slow day if you are dragging up 2 year old threads!

2 year old, dammit im off sick so i started reading and didnt know it was that old, after spending so much time im gona post what i have already written and finish reading ofcoarse

Aava wrote:

No it shouldn't, this country is bad enough as it is.

With IT legalised then the gardai could divert there attention to other matters
Also Less drunk agro if people could roll and smoke

Sleepy wrote:

That said, I'm a pretty liberal person where personal choice is concerned (though I do expect people to live up to the consequences of their choices). I don't see it happening any time soon in our repressive society.

Its Kinda sad that when you go to certain pubs you can see loads of people rolling, i don't go to collage but apparently huge amount of collage people smoke.

Shouldent you just need a certain amount of the population behind an idea before its legal?

Kêrmêtt&#234 wrote:

An old friend of mine has MS and her symptoms would be greatly reduced if she could be allowed to have maraijuana.
There are definately many medical arguments to pro-legalisation.

Yes its true, actually many hospitals actually turn a "blind eye" to MS patients smoking because even tho its illegal doctors cant argue that its very very bad for them

stevenmu wrote:

The main reason I can see for legalising it is to take it out of the hands of the drug dealing scum who bring it in. I'm not talking about your "mate who just sells a bit to some of the lads" but the people further up the chain who do other things besides selling weed.

edit: Oh yeah, medical reasons are good too.

Id say those up the chain will still sell the other stuff so legalisation wont cut there profits that much...

ro_chez wrote:

Care to elaborate on that?

Personally I think it definitely should be for all the reasons mentioned, and to get some real weed in this country instead of the contaminated crap alot of people smoke in this country which is far more dangerous than some nice quality bud.

Pure weeds, decent quality, around 7+ euro a gram smoked pure is allot more healthy than what old irish pre-drought soap, but remember costs, 100 euro of soap gets you how many J`s? and lasts about a week. 12 Grams of nice green is gone in 4 days at 100 euro as well. You say u want the green stuff but remember how much quicker u smoke it. 4 days is if ur casually smoking but having a "session" you can easily smoke a ounce of soap in a day and allot more weed in a day

steveland? wrote:

Yeh god forbid we should all chill out a little.

Anyways I'm kind of split on this issue. On the one hand I'm not a big fan of having to buy it off of shady people where ya dont know what you're getting and I'd rather the money not go to drug dealers or drug producers.

On the other hand if it was legalised it would probably only be de-criminalised as opposed to allowing you to just go up to the local hash shop and buyin an ounce or whatever...

The government would probably put huge levys on it too and i'd be too flaked to go out and work and earn money to buy it if it were widely available.

Plus no chances of hash bars like in amsterdam cos of the smoking ban

Ive never reley had a problem choosing between work and smoke the reason im writing ths is only because im very sick at the mo im on steroids and other stuff and im bored i was supposed to go to work today thats what im doing posting at such a early time.

It would be very interesting to see how much the government tax it because if they tax it too much the dealers will still deal

stagolee wrote:

maybe hash bars here wouldnt be so impossible if it was a totaly new industry maybe they could only hire smokers and get them to sign some sort of form before they started work saying they didnt mind working in an environment with marajuanna smoke (tobacco smoke would still have to be banned though or the regular pubs would be up in arms) or failing that they could be mostly outdoor ventures,

ah all this talk of grass is making me want to go out and try find some, its been nigh on six months since i last had a spliff

6 months???
just fly over to the dam u can go over there stay a night and get VERY binned for less than the cost of a night out in town

I wouldnt mind owkring in one of those places as long as you cant smoke cigerates and there is some rule against a full smoke inside a weed spliff

NotMe wrote:

What about the people selling ciggarettes for cheap? No doubt the criminals would rob shipments of hash and sell it for cheap like they do with ciggarettes.

Anyway I say legalise it.

I Never thought of that, hmm that would be much cheaper and much better quality

Lisapeep wrote:

If it were legalised, current users would still buy it, but also new users would start using it because of how convenient it would become to obtain. I'd say keep users to a minimum.

Ive never spoken to anyone who did not smoke because it was illigal, some said they don't like tobacco and will quite happily smoke pure weeds even tho they melt a hole in your pocket

Cork_girl wrote:

I say they should decriminalise it for the moment.. I mean people are better citizens after a smoke than drink after all.. I mean you couldn't be bothered gettin into a fight .. it'd be like oh yeah.. later..

Bill Hicks

Mordeth wrote:

it already is everywhere, the people who want to smoke it do smoke it. if it were decriminalised there would be a small surge of new tokers just trying it out, some would decide to keep smoking.. and most wouldn't. It's not addictive and it's not incredibly harmful so there is no good reason to "keep users to a minimum" excepting of course moral outrage.

anyway as was shown in holland, decriminlisation does not lead to a large increase in the number of users. It rose slightly at first but once the novelty of it wore off alot of people stopped smoking, quite a large percentage of the dutch population doesn't smoke weed. It's just another drug over there, I was staying at a friends house talking to his mother about how it was illegal over here. She doesn't smoke but she was shocked when I told her you could be arrested and sent to jail for selling it, she didn't understand why something so harmless would be criminalised.

I agree with her

I think almost everyone areas with both you and her its just a question of why noone in the government will do something about it when so many people have that view

Blub2k4 wrote:

As far as I know this is one of the major obstacles to legalisation as it is. Nobody really knows how much in your system should be allowed.

To OD on THC Dont you have to do something very strange like smoke your own body weight in 12 hours? ? and its illigal? yet u can drink yourself to death in bout 20-30 mins if u start downing bottle after bottle of absinthe or vodka,

Even if you smoked pure cone after pure cone i dont see me smoking my body weight and still being awake in 12 hours

FX Meister wrote:

For a start it is not harmless, and to say it's not addictive is just being naive. It is psychologically addictive and I've both read studies on this and witnessed it in people I know. And as for getting sent to jail for selling it, if you go to jail for selling it then you are obviously smuggling very large quantities or you are a serious repeat offender and deserve time in jail. They system gives you more chances to clean up your act than you deserve.

The system is flawed as are those who run maintain and monitor the system

Spalk0 wrote:

While i agree its psycologically addictive it is far less addictive than alcohol!why is it loads of people in this country have such a relaxed attitude about(in my experience) a far more dangerous substance in alcohol and are yet totally against a far milder one in cannibis?I think i heard that not one person has died from an overdose on cannibis and dont get me started on the thousands that are killed from alcohol every year!

Driving is one area to highlight from what ive heard from people who own cars when stoned they are slightly "paro" and will drive more slowly while when drunk well people know how others drive when drunk

Blub2k4 wrote:

It appears that it is not that easy, the Dutch dont even know how to regulate it. I know the Germans were seriously considering the Dutch model while I was living there and what stopped them was a blood:thc level test for the roadside, they were eventually talking about banning anyone who had any THC in their blood.

I wouldn't care that much if that was the case im a walker i got a car but didn't even use it just decided to sell it because the only use i would ever get from it is visiting friends who live more than 40 min walk away. I walk to the shop and offo and to all my friends housed i cycle to work cause its quicker than driving and i wouldn't drive to a friends house in case i endeded up boozining. So if they brought in Majuranna legal but no THC whatsoever in blood i would be ok with that but just to be a asshole i would want the same rules inforced for Music and Drink, Drink impares driving no alcahol whatsoever in system, music is a distraction no music when driving (i know that one would upset allot of ppl who would want anti THC driving regulations)

Blub2k4 wrote:

You're talking rubbish man, Gambling is also phychologically addictive, or do you think that the only addiction is physiological? Do you actually know the difference between Psychological and physiological which are both made up words, I mean all words are made up.
THC is addictive, I have seen people sell furniture to score an eighth.

Hmmm i will do things like decide not to go out boozing for one night and buy a ounce instead but i wouldn't sell important things like chair, computer and fridge, i would also for example go hungry, a choice between getting smoke or ordering take out and i would choose the smoke

Gurgle wrote:

This sentence actually gives more information than you might think:
1. Your friends have really really crap furniture.
2. Your friends need to get jobs

I was thinking how could one not have enough money, and if selling furniture why not buy a ounce or more

Gurgle wrote:

One eighth costs about €12.50 and would last an average 'evening' smoker about a week.

Reley? i would guess it would last one person 2 evenings and a ounce lasting just under a week

ferdi wrote:

decriminalisation is the way for now, but this country is so full of **** kicking, bible bashing, ignorant 'dont know what they are talking about' assholes that it wont happen.

any reasonable person whos judgement isnt clouded by what politicians, clerics and the media tell them can see the complete insanity of having alcohol legal and cannabis illegal.

how many alcohol related deaths in the last 10 years in ireland? i would look it up but the figures would probably scare the **** out of me.

...

Ye that would be a kool tshirt to have
Alcahol Deaths in ireland the last 10 years
Majuranna releated deaths the llast 10 years

Tiesto wrote:

I dont think so.
i have been to amsterdam a number of times and i have talked to many dutch people about it..
Yea they thinks its good for some reasons...
such as the obvíous ones..
U know what ur buying instead of going to the streets getting the not so good stuff.. and the government making some money from the tax on it...
but the Dutch government didnt see coming the massive amounts of illegal drugs in amsterdam which can be obtained very easily..... or the large amounts of drug addicted bums hanging around the streets wrecking peoples heads...

ive been to the dam many time now i think its been 7 or maybe 6.... anyway
i think it works well for them. if your looking for womething other then weeds like mushies its good aswell cause there legal, but DO NOT BUY ANYTHING ELCE THERE: COKE, E DONT BUY ANYTHING ELCE

1.You could be the next unlucky guy to get batery acid in your coke and then u could burn out the back of your retinas - have fun

2. You could get mugged (happened to one person i know)

3. What you get could be fake

4. You might maybe get something good (happened to one person i know)

so in 7 visits 2 people i know have tried to get coke/e , one was mugged and the other was a satisfied customer bottom line is its not worth the hassle.
Go to amsterdam to chill thats it

ferdi wrote:

people get addicted to anything....if you do anything regularly enough and then stop of course you will suffer withdrawal/

cannabis may be addictive but it should not be put in the same league as coke,gear, crack and acid - it should not be illegal.

It has been falsely put into that league probbley because governments worry about fall in national production levels

steveland? wrote:

Just out of interest how much can you have on you at any one time before they class you as a dealer? There is a cut off point of only an ounce or two before they can arrest you for dealing

if you have a decent 1/2 ounce it is considered large enough to be dealing

Also i know this is a very long post but as i said sick off work dontread if you dont want to bother with it but if youve got this far i have a interesting fact for you.

I spoke with a gardai Sargent before in court (****** smoke related) and during the lunch in court i talked to him for a min and asked him why was a friend of mine charge with enough for "37 Hand rolled ciggerates"

He was sound about it and talked to me he said its up to gardai special department who work it out but apparently according to them .1 of a gram is enough for a J my friend had enough for 3 maybe 4 on him and the gardai said it was enough for 37

Spalk0 wrote:

think its less than that SteveD!

think its only a half ounce or more!Seen a chap in court over an ounce!

Anyways, i do think its slightly addictive as is loads of activities and drugs!However i think its far less addictive than Smoking or alcohol!and i have done all three man a time!put it this way, was a heavy hash smoker for years(sometimes smoked an ounce a week) and i had no prblems giving it up!i have just given up smoking today and had serious problems giving up smoking before!Alcohol i have yet to kick and i do drink a lot of it!I do see your point a bit blub2k4, but i have never myself gotten even close to that desperate for the stuff nor have i ever met anyone like that either and in my time i knew or still know a lot of them!I think a lot of smokers are social ones!I was, i never got stoned if i was on my own but just with mates!

I would smoke by myself if noone was around its very nice to relax with when watching a new tv show

ferdi wrote:

any more than a quarter ounce (7 grams) (30euros worth) and it is no longer consideres for presonal use.

Interesting ive heard that quite a bit and i have to say im curieus
Thats 4 euro 28 cent a gram.

I wonder how the gardai see other things for example 7 grams of morracan black hash will cost allot more than 4 euro a gram so if u had 7 grams of that would that be considerd dealing?

I wonder do they do it on potency aswell as weight

fiacha wrote:

making it legal won't remove dealers from the streets.
people will want to buy it cheaper, just like there's a market for stolen cigarettes and drink.
also, they'll be selling it to kids as it would only be legal to sell to over 18s.

tbh i can't see any harm in legalising it. it's so commonly used in ireland at the moment, that I can't see the situation getting any worse.

Spalk0 wrote:

sure they sell it to kids anyways!Dealers dont care how old you are!I know with dealers its never convenient or easy to get all the time so people would use legal vendors a lot more since its gauranteed you can get it and don't have to go through hassle of ringing up loads of people!

Im sorry but there is not that many people walking around saying "phhhssst kid u want to buy smokes or drink"

There is always atleast 1 in a group of teens who looks 18 and if there is not don't moan its your own fault for dressing that way you should to appear older

So there is the person i the group of teens who looks old enough to buy booze and smokes and if its legal then smoke as well, lets not forget those with older brothers/sisters or sound parents. Then there is also the people who will buy the kids/teens there drink/smokes , i never did myself tho i always think "**** then, i made the effort to dress so i looked older why dont they"

Cactus Col wrote:

If it was legalised would people be happy to smoke it outside ... after all I'm sure it would be under the same rules as tobacco smoking ... especially as cannibas smoke contains a higher concentration of carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) than tobacco smoke..

it would be grand at home, but standing outside a pub in the rain ... not so good

(actually the higher chance of getting cancer from it would be one of my main reasons for not legalising it)

Actually it depends on the smoker, a pure weed j for example has no tobacco in it and has a lovely smell that can liven up any beer garden

Blub2k4 wrote:

This has happened to a relative of mine, she got severely ill from long-term cannabis abuse.

The thing is though that there is a theory that most drug abusers are self-medicating themselves for pre-existing mental conditions.... chicken and egg.<edit> I just saw that you have this point included.

dont take offensive please but i don't know much about the brain or the chemical composition of THC but i don't see how they know, a friend of mine and and another person i know family member both had problems but how do they know it was THC that caused it?
How do they know it was not a natural previously unknown neruel imbalance in there brains receptors that was dormant until they hit late teens?

FX Meister wrote:

Back to what the thread was about at the start. I don't think fully legalising it is the answer, and decriminalisation doesn't really stop the dudes at the top. How about decriminalising the growing of cannabis for personal use. That way hopefully only people who know what they are doing and who put in a bit of effort for what they want get it.

Im sorry i hate to say it but this would be a bad thing, it would be 1/2 of a step in the right direction but it would be a bad thing.

How would one regulate/enforce? You will have to set a number of plants per person lets say 2 or 3

ie. Someone has 2 high quality plants/seeds and every 5 weeks they harvest/clone and start over and thats there personal smoke there happy but

what about the ppl who are too lazy to grow or they are not bothered paying good money for good seeds so u have people who will have 10+ plants with small harvests every 8-10 weeks , its still personal smoke he just have inferior quality plants

Also What If, 2 brothers, one smokes the other does not the one that does smoke is growing 4 plants argues that 2 are his brothers - does that mean his brother has to give a urine sample to prove his brother is not a dealer?

Rules would have to be set, no growing if your under 16

One of the main reasons it should be legalised is that it is a inefficient use of gardai time/resources - Complete legilasation is the way to go

Gurgle wrote:

Good compromise.
Gets rid of the drug smuggling / ****e quality problems, though it could turn into a case of criminal gangs growing & distributing it instead of importing it.

Quality would be be better ye but it is easier to mix weed than it is to mix a lump so i am against this, Worst case scenario combat erupts between dealer/buyer over mixed weed and then one of the main arguments for majuranna that its not a violent as alcohol goes out the window

Mordeth wrote:

In holland you can have up to 5 (i think) plants, more than that and you get fined. Also due to pressure from the French (and other surrounding goverments) there is a limit to posession of 5 grammes per person, as a result you can't buy more than 5 grammes in any one coffee shop. legally anyway.

5 grammes in the coffie shop ye but its not 5 plants and the fine depends on how many you have, if its personal use in 2005 you could have 4 any more and the fines start piling on

Mordeth wrote:

Anyone who's smoked *proper* hash, instead of the **** we have in ireland will know the truth of this. Unbelievable ****.

I love amsterdam great place to go for new years

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

The sh1t here is pure crap

Ive noticed a massive increase in quality and im hearing that from allot of randomers in beer gardens and such

Mordeth wrote:

not realy, most of the weed/hash (ESPECIALLY the hash.. dear ****ing stuff) in holland is dearer than what we'd buy here.. but the quality (and variety in taste) is so much higher that it's worth the price.

Defiantly worth the bit of extra cash alright but the real expensive **** like +100 euro for 4 grams of rubble or something like that is a bit much, still tho nothing like 40 euro worth of barneys rubble compressed into about 8 toks off a vaperiser and ur binned for a long time.....

Mordeth wrote:

umm.. if it is decriminalised it better not be sold in ****ing cig packets pre-rolled, treated with god knows how many chemicals.

should be bought fresh, stored in little plastic baggies and rolled just prior to smoking
mmmmmm

NO NO NO Never buy a box of 20 pre-rolled J`s because everyone has there own tastes, everyone puts a different amount into a J, as well as that it is enjoyable and also a bit ritualistic to sit down and roll

Cactus Col wrote:

Now that I think of it .... it was legalised ... it probably would be sold a few different ways (I'd imagine pre-rolled been the most popular eventually .. maybe not straight off, but as more people start smoking, I'd say they'd rely more and more on the pre-rolled stuff.

I don't see it becoming that popular the only people in Amsterdam ive ever seen buying pre rollies are tourists who dont know how to roll and people who dont know what there doing...

Gurgle wrote:

The coffee shops in Amsterdam sell it as either a pre-rolled joint in a test tube or loose in a zip-loc baggie. From what I saw, most people smoking on a night out buy the joints.

I don't know if the pre-rolled are done by machine or nubile young maids.
(Obviously not by a big gay bloke called Hans)

Mordeth wrote:

I didn't see many coffeeshops with pre rolled on sale, and.. most people smoking on a night out buy the joints.. WHAT?

i spent many..many.. MANY hours in coffeeshops the week I was over there and I didn't see a single person buy a pre rolled. Everyone came in, bought a few grammes.. sat down for a smoke or just left. Most of the dutch people I know too that smoke don't smoke the pre-rolled ones, they much prefer to roll their own.

Mordeth is right, ive been 7 times and he is right its only the touriests and some people who dont know how to roll buy the pre-rolies,

If you want to see why buy one and open it up and see how much weed is actually in it

seamus wrote:

There's also been so much money spent on the "drugs are bad mmkay" policies, that it would require a pretty large re-education campaign before legalisation even occured, saying "drugs are still bad, except marijuana, tobacco and alcohol, mmkay".

The vast majority in this country would be opposed to its legalisation. Parents afraid for their children, older people still believing it's an evil drug. The decades of campaigning against dope means that many many people are still ignorant about its use and effects. The people most educated are the young people, because they've tried it, but they're also the ones least likely to vote, regardless of what's promised.

It's certainly a topic that won't come up for political debate in any serious manner for fifteen or twenty years.

Ye we just have to wait for allot of people to die off from old age, we will see the dawn in our lifetime, don't worry

ScumLord wrote:

Someone asked why smoke is illegal and it's kind of a long storey it seems the hole world was set against mister green.

The Americans didn't like it because the illegal Mexican immigrants used it, therefore it must be bad. Americans don't like any drugs anyway.

I have to say i didnt know that my own therey was that it distracted there citizens from hard work and resulted in decreased productivity for the nation and they banned it also because its better to have your populate scared than happy

ScumLord wrote:

The Egyptians didn't like it for industrial reasons also. I think their the ones that put the final nail in the coffin by having it tacked on to some sort of anti drugs UN treaty that was designed to stop the trade in opium. No country actually locally made the drug illegal it just got handed down from the UN and unfortunately making cannabis legal would mean breaking international law.

Most countries didn't even realise cannabis was illegal until the 60s and it was popularised by the hippies.

All that information is fairly rough but it's near or near enough.

It should be leagised, the worrywarts don't even have to be afraid of a cafe culture poping up like in Amsterdam because of the smoking ban. What we should have is resturants. Your starter is laced then your stoned for the meal.

I heard on the radio as well that some commision set up by our government has said that prohabition does more harm than good. So maybe that'll be the slap in the face they need to change the laws a bit.

I Wish things where so easy to change i mean why is there not just a set number of people say 25% of a countrys population want to be able to do something then they should be able to do it,

ye sure 25% of people in america want to get rid if bush so it just happens?
No not like that i mean within reason!

"It is fact that alcohol does more damage than THC"
so that should be it
That single sentence should be all thats needed to make it legal or make drink illegal

Floodzie wrote:

Despite my previous posts, I actually agree with Gurgle. Some people can drive after 1 pint, some after a small doobie. It depends on the individual, but yeah, I would be against it in the main.

I think if they had a roadside test for drivers they would be using it by now. It's very hard to tell if someone was smoking that day or a week previously.

How about just asking the driver to think about the word 'purple' and see if they giggle...

This is one of the biggest problems i remember a long time ago on rte news someone was arrested for driving while too tired...
The man had not slept in quite a while and i have to say that is allowed of bollox

I mean if i was up at 4am for work on a friday and off at 5pm and a freind was up at 7am and off at 4pm i would still be awake long after he is during a friday night drinking session.

Some people do not need as much sleep as others FACT!
It is the same with driving and smoking/drinking everyone has a different tollerence

exCrumlinBoyo wrote:

My two cents worth…

I feel it should be legalized and controlled by the government for sale to the public. In comparison to alcohol, I think pot is the lesser of the two with regards direct and indirect damage it can cause. What gets me is that people will go out to the pub, get pissed drunk, cause a fight, puke up outside the chipper, fall home and make a complete arse of him or her self and BRAG TO THEIR MATES THE NEXT DAY ABOUT IT. This is socially acceptable in Irish society. Compare that to your smoker who at best, after a hard day will sit down, smoke up and just relax.

Yes exeatly and also say i was allowed to roll J`s in the beer garden in the pub i would drink slower aswell because im roling my drinking is being interrupted!

exCrumlinBoyo wrote:

Myself and my wife are both hard working people who raise our kids as best we can. We spoke one spiff at the end of the day, when both our kids are fast asleep and all the chores are done, usually around 9pm after a long day to unwind. Unfortunately, we are breaking the law, which to me is so silly cause alls we are doing is unwinding, not harming anyone (possibly ourselves, health wise but its limited) and chatting about the days events alls while getting high and chilling out.

If Ireland leaglized it, I would move back home to Dublin in a heart beat.

There is nothing wrong with that and there should not be anything wrong with that, but on the bright side isent vagas having a vote on the whole thing? once one american state decriminalizes its laws others will follow

Vagas is sad anyway 20 years???!!!!!! 20 years for majuranna!
As there old motto goes

"Dont gamble with majuranna"
Up to 20 years

julep wrote:

You all seem quite aggressive in your push for legalisation. where's that relaxed buzz you all talk about?

The longer u spend talking about why its not legal the more frustrated we become and it reflects in some peoples posts

Floodzie wrote:

I suppose it depends on the judge. A friend of mine - a mother of three - was caught with an eighth at a music festival. The cops told her not to worry - they'd just take her name and confiscate the doobie and that would be that. Anyway, she got a summons and the whole thing including solicitor, fine and paying for 'rehabilitation classes' cost her a grand. Not pocket change to a young woman bringing up three kids.

The same thing happened to me, however, a few years before. I was caught with a half-ounce at another music festival and they just took my name and that was that.

At a concert i had enough for about 12-15 J`s the gardai said its fine just tell him the stuff and there wont be any summons or anything funny thing is i had just moved into a new house the day before the concert and i didn't know my address...... he wasent happy i found one of my friends who knew the address but i still got the summons

Floodzie wrote:

I never had a problem during the drought. I must have a good supplier!

If it were legal, then schoolkids would find it harder to get. At the moment no dealer asks to see ID....

In Holland (liberal drug laws) fewer teenagers smoke pot than in Ireland (strict drug laws)...

Ye the drought seems to vary there might be one or 2 days when its hard to get a little bit of smoke but the rest of time time during the drought there was always a way

slipss wrote:

2. Alot of people said various things about cannabis being harmfull or harmless. Well to summarise it is harmfull, physically and mentally. But when used responsibly the negative health effects are negligable(sc). It can be viewed the exact same way as alcohol or salt. If you use it too often or use too much then the health risks rise proportionally, but when used sparingly they decrease and in individually specific cases they can have benifets to health. In my opinion like with alcohol or salt the owness of responsible use should fall on the individual.

Exeatly the main thing being that it takes different ammounts to effect different people, one thing i can think of from a few years back was myself and my freinds ran into a freind or a freinds group and we where talking and between 6 of them they had a 1/2 ounce they had gone in on, and to our ammazment that would last the 6 of them between them a weeek, they didnt belive us that we would smoke more than that a week each

shane86 wrote:

Whilst I dont agree 100% with all Juleps views on the matter, the way he riles the addicts here is cracking me up, fair play People who talk about being recreational users causing no harm then waffling about driving stoned, come on. Bill Hicks was a funny guy but he was not a genius in terms of saving the world. His jokes are funny- then you think about it and realise he had a very narrow view of the world around him.

So the moral is lay off the Bill Hicks vids for a bit.

Emmm i have to disagree his view of the world was not narrow, it was right.
Its been some time since i have had the time to watch his DVDs but from what i remember he way right in what he said and if people/governments had of just done that problem solved? Then again its true of anyone isent it if everyone just obyed one person the world would be at pease. i dont see democracy ever having that.

Dinxminx wrote:

Sorry but what's Mary Jane?


EDIT: Oh right, marijuana. Sorry, carry on! *blushes*

Well To be honest i lost interest around page 11 and then i was glad to see something so funny on page 13, dont worry when i first started smoking MANY years ago myself and a friend of mine where doing online quiz's on some ol site and she showed me one about death test or something i think.... anyway i always knew weed/hash/pot/coke/e/mushies/lsd ect but ive always found the word majuranna to be very american and anyway i asked what majuranna was cause i didn't know that was another name for it, very young and a long time ago id forgotten about that till i read your post

General Responses

You can get Pot just as easy maybe even easier than drink when under 18

Pot/Hash/Weed, Whatever is not a gateway drug its like saying a kids toy plastic car is a gateway to road rage or something stupid like that.

There where too many arguments about the "facts" of majuranna being both positive and negative
new tests/discoverys/therys/ideas/sympthoms are being mentioned almost every month, Noone knows for sure there are too many conficting views but one thing does not make sence
It is fact that alcohol causes more death than majuranna
Why is hash illigal?

Quality would be be better If people where allowed to grow themselves ye, but it is easier to mix weed than it is to mix a lump so i am against this, Worst case scenario combat erupts between dealer/buyer over mixed weed and then one of the main arguments for majuranna that its not a violent as alcohol goes out the window

One of the main reasons it should be legalised besides its a persons right to smoke if they want to is that it is a inefficient use of gardai time/resources - Complete legilasation is the way to go

On the issue of Herrion that has poped up in this thread i heard this line in a movie or something "All those people on herrorin, Youd think by now some of them would have heard something bad about it"
I understand that depression is bad i know that but what makes a person think that some substance can help. I think its odd that someone in this day and age would start using it, what is so horrible in there lives that makes them want to do it.
*NO OFFENSE MEANT IN NEXT SENTENCE*
Are those that use hard drugs as a means of escape not as strong mentally as others, are they unable to deal with depression and unhappiness?
*SORRY IF I CAUSED OFFENSE*

The thing is we will never know how can one know exeatly how much mental pain a person is in? i dont think we can its like whats worse kick in balls or giving birth.

I haven't watched bill hicks in a long time now i didn't watch any of those links my friend has them all on dvd ill borrow them off her

Ill Just Leave It With This...
"We Should Be Allowed To Smoke It"