Should IT be legalised?

Floodzie

ScumLord wrote:

I hate driving stoned. Normally love driving and would be very confident behind the wheel (read kinda fast) but when I'm stoned I lose all confidence in my ability to drive and slow down allot, I don't ever lose concentration but I guess the end result is that I'd look like a better driver due to driving much slower.

I was being driven around by a stoned friend a few weeks ago. Normally he's fairly confident behind the wheel (accelarate to the lights and then BRAKE) but after a doobie it's like 'Driving Miss Daisy'. Seriously, if we'd gone any slower we would have stopped. This usually only happens late at night (on the way back from tea and doobies and LONG conversations about time-travel in a mate's gaf) which is lucky because his driving is so slow as to attract attention. Once the hilarity wears off, though, I do find myself getting a bit paranoid.

I don't drive much these days (can walk to work), and when I do it's to see the parents - hence no smoking. But the few times I have driven slightly high (but not completely stoned) I really enjoyed it. A favourite spot is around the mountains on the way out of the city. There's a really cool WW2 graveyard in Glencree for German pilots crashed/washed up on our shores. I'm definitely no Nazi (these people were conscripts anyway), but the place is very cool during the summer - you can climb up on the hill overlooking it and have a smoke. And then when the effects have worn off a bit, a nice, mellow drive back to suburbia and BIG sandwiches...

Floodzie

julep wrote:

It's illegal because it's harmful.
Hardly rocket science, is it?

The legality of lots of drugs change status over time. They are still the same drug. Legality or otherwise means very little.

julep wrote:

Also, how many of you actually need it for medicinal purposes?
if you are not using it for medicinal purposes, then you are abusing it. end of story.

I drink alcohol and (way too much) tea and coffee. I'm not 'abusing' them in any way that is harmful to society or myself.

julep wrote:

as for other drugs, The easiest way forward is for global economic sactions against the countries which produce them.

All the grass I get is home-grown. It's a weed, you'll never stop it. Regulate it like alcohol and caffeine.

julep wrote:

SSRI's and other mental health drugs, please don't pretend you know about them until you have actually taken them.

Fair enough. But perhaps that implies that most people here, despite being potheads, do not have mental health issues, and therefore not much knowledge of associated drugs?

Gurgle

Floodzie wrote:

I was being driven around by a stoned friend a few weeks ago.

Oh good god!

Heres another reason to legalize it - so they can develop a breath test and get these stoned drivers off the road.

Yeah, you drive nice and slowly and mellowly - then theres a bump as you run over a 5yo at 20 mph, 10 minutes later you say 'what was that?'

julep wrote:

It's illegal because it's harmful.
Hardly rocket science, is it?

Because all harmfull things are illegal, right?

Try alcohol, tobacco and firearms to name but a few.

Boxing should have been outlawed years ago, along with all field sports. Darts? Lethal!

Cars should be restricted to 120kph on entering the country, as that is the maximum allowed speed anywhere.

Anyone attempting suicide should get the death penalty.

Nobody is proposing to make smoking pot compulsory.

Floodzie

Gurgle wrote:

Oh good god!

Heres another reason to legalize it - so they can develop a breath test and get these stoned drivers off the road.

Yeah, you drive nice and slowly and mellowly - then theres a bump as you run over a 5yo at 20 mph, 10 minutes later you say 'what was that?'

Despite my previous posts, I actually agree with Gurgle. Some people can drive after 1 pint, some after a small doobie. It depends on the individual, but yeah, I would be against it in the main.

I think if they had a roadside test for drivers they would be using it by now. It's very hard to tell if someone was smoking that day or a week previously.

How about just asking the driver to think about the word 'purple' and see if they giggle...

Floodzie

ScumLord wrote:

If anyones looking for a good documentary on smoke, Woody Harrelson (yerman from cheers and natural born killers) did one called grass. The best thing about it is they show all the old black and white adds about the dangers of cannabis, my favourite one is about the guy who makes the bird play the piano faster and faster then jumps out the window.

Sounds like they use excerpts form 'Reefer Madness', an old US gov. anti-pot film - available on Google Video. It's a good laugh.

But if you REALLY want a good laugh - high or otherwise - check out the Scientology Orientation Video (Google it). Someone snuck a video camera into their cinema during induction day and recorded the film they watch.

Very very weird but HILARIOUS.

Scientology: Legal. Pot: Illegal... The world's a strange place.

kleefarr

Aava wrote:

No it shouldn't, this country is bad enough as it is.

I think that if we banned alcohol and legalised "Mary Jane" the world we be a better place to live, although not much would get done except by the people that don't have any "Mary Janes" in there possession.

Floodzie

kleefarr wrote:

I think that if we banned alcohol and legalised "Mary Jane" the world we be a better place to live, although not much would get done except by the people that don't have any "Mary Janes" in there possession.

I agree with the first part, but my own experience is that I usually work very hard (I have to - self employed) but smoke a little bit almost every evening after work/nightclasses/whatever.

My advice to potheads: Don't smoke all day, don't smoke every day, don't smoke solo and don't mix with tobacco.

I break all of the above quite regularly... but ya gotta have something to aim for!!

Love the sentiment though, kleefarr!!

ScumLord

It's illegal because it's harmful.

Everythings harmful to a certain extent. Cannabis isn't so harmful that it should be classed as a dangerous drug. Simple as.

I think if they had a roadside test for drivers they would be using it by now. It's very hard to tell if someone was smoking that day or a week previously.

They probably could come up with a test I've used saliva ones to test myself they take around 10-15 minutes and may not be as bad as others for picking up trace amounts. The other thing is there not even testing for the right chemical the chemical that stays in your system for up to a month is not the active ingredient.

exCrumlinBoyo

My two cents worth…

I feel it should be legalized and controlled by the government for sale to the public. In comparison to alcohol, I think pot is the lesser of the two with regards direct and indirect damage it can cause. What gets me is that people will go out to the pub, get pissed drunk, cause a fight, puke up outside the chipper, fall home and make a complete arse of him or her self and BRAG TO THEIR MATES THE NEXT DAY ABOUT IT. This is socially acceptable in Irish society. Compare that to your smoker who at best, after a hard day will sit down, smoke up and just relax.

There was a comedian years ago, don’t remember his name and he was doing a sketch about Pot heads V’s Drinkers. He started something like this… I don’t know what the problem with Pot is, which would you rather, the bottle of whiskey a day father mother who beats the crap out of their kids or the pot smoking parent, who will be like ah sure go out of that, I will get you later kind of thing. I know it’s a vague example, but I think the above explains a lot about the differences between pot and drink.

On the other hand you have the abuse of socially acceptable drugs. You have your prescription popping people who are strung out on valium and painkillers for example. Now, popping pills constantly or for a length of time will tare the kidneys out of you and you will end up on Dialysis. My point is society decides what is acceptable and what is not and somehow has gotten it wrong.

There are many pro’s and cons for legalizing and keeping it illegal, but the reality of it Is this.. The world and Ireland is no different is full of people who smoke pot and obtain it illegally through organized crime, which is the ****s because who likes giving their money to some honcho who is making a fortune smuggling this stuff in a distributing it. I thought I would never say this, but I would rather give the money to the tax man and get quality stuff in stead. You would need to regulate it like Alcohol and come up with some kind of driving policy, but it could be done, people could enjoy their relaxation (sure don’t we deserve it such as hectic as life is?) without the fear of the cops grabbing hold of you.

now I mention the cops at the end of the last paragraph because I live in the States. They come down on you hard for being in possession of pot let alone selling the stuff. Last night I headed to a friends house to pick up a ¼ weed, and felt like a commando driving home in case I got pulled over, because if caught you would get 6 months for possession. That’s another point of the resources which are used to curb the dealing of pot. The time spent with the courts and the garda/cops ect.

Myself and my wife are both hard working people who raise our kids as best we can. We spoke one spiff at the end of the day, when both our kids are fast asleep and all the chores are done, usually around 9pm after a long day to unwind. Unfortunately, we are breaking the law, which to me is so silly cause alls we are doing is unwinding, not harming anyone (possibly ourselves, health wise but its limited) and chatting about the days events alls while getting high and chilling out.

If Ireland leaglized it, I would move back home to Dublin in a heart beat.

Rb

How many times does this topic have to be done to have the threads locked and deleted on sight?

ExCrumlinBoyo wrote:

If Ireland leaglized it, I would move back home to Dublin in a heart beat.

You'd move back to Dublin purely because cannabis was legalised? Despite the obscene cost of living, inflation, cost of houses/property etc? Thats a bit stupid.

monkey tennis

Gurgle wrote:

Make a note: Ignore everything netwhizkid says.

This should be part of the newbie FAQ - it's something everyone ends up doing at some point anyway, might as well get it right off the bat!

julep wrote:

It's illegal because it's harmful.
Hardly rocket science, is it?

Do you support this reason? Because I for one don't like being told what I can or can't do with my own body. The government is not my mother. By your reasoning, alcohol and tobacco should be made illegal. Would you support that? How about cars being criminalized? Reading Netwhizkid's posts? Sweets and other junk food? Television? Where does it end? What else will you give up for your nanny state?

Christ, at least put some thought into it.

Rb

monkey tennis wrote:

Reading Netwhizkid's posts?

Lol, nice cheap dig

monkey tennis

rb_ie wrote:

Lol, nice cheap dig

Seriously, that's a worse trip than any drugs I can think of...

Black Swan

Legalize it, package it, tax it, and regulate it like alcohol.

the_syco

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Legalize it, package it, tax it, and regulate it like alcohol.

Aye. They'd want to over-tax it, to ensure people don't use it. But then people will just get it illegally.

Sofaspud

the_syco wrote:

Aye. They'd want to over-tax it, to ensure people don't use it. But then people will just get it illegally.

Yes, just like we all do with cigarettes and alcohol.

Wait . . .

griffdaddy

julep wrote:

Also, how many of you actually need it for medicinal purposes?
if you are not using it for medicinal purposes, then you are abusing it. end of story.

abusing it on what criteria? there's no kind of predicate associated with weed that it should be used exclusively for medicinal purposes, rather than the agenda of certain people, in itself, it should be treated and taken as is. i use cushions because i enjoy the way they feel on my arse and to increase my comfort. They have no medical purpose or won't improve anything about me, they may however, make me more lazy and reluctant to get up, distracting me from whatever i have to do. The idea that something which increases our enjoyment should instantly be termed 'abuse' is ridiculous, it suggests that there is some kind of socially acceptable way of 'using' something, and that in itself, is subjective.

Terry

ok. a few people picked up on my 'Ít's harmful' post.
look at it this way. do we really need more harmful substances available from the government.
give it a few years and we would have people suing the government because weed fúcked them up. then the same bitches looking for legalisation would be bitching and moaning about the people suing the government. something along the lines of 'well you shouldn't have smoked it in the first place. didn't anyone tell you it was harmful?'

Floodzie

julep wrote:

ok. a few people picked up on my 'Ít's harmful' post.
look at it this way. do we really need more harmful substances available from the government.

We need more, less harmful, substances available from the government. We're not looking for heroin being sold in the corner shop. Pot, man. Pot.

julep wrote:

give it a few years and we would have people suing the government because weed fúcked them up. then the same bitches looking for legalisation would be bitching and moaning about the people suing the government. something along the lines of 'well you shouldn't have smoked it in the first place. didn't anyone tell you it was harmful?'

Yeah, I'm on my way into my solicitor to sue the governement right now because I got drunk last year and got sick down my front. Get a grip.

Unfortunately it's the ignorant and uninformed like yourself that direct social/substance policy in this country.

ScumLord

do we really need more harmful substances available from the government.

but you see, it's not all that harmful. Smoking will cause problems but smoking it is a personal decision you can always eat it.

give it a few years and we would have people suing the government because weed fúcked them up.

No ya won't, the only reason tobaco companys got sued was because they claimed smoking was good for you, they lied to their customers. I don't think the government could be sued in this instance.

I still can't see any valid reason for cannabis to remain an illegal drug.

Floodzie

ScumLord wrote:

I still can't see any valid reason for cannabis to remain an illegal drug.

I agree (in case you hadn't noticed ;-)

Prohibition of cannabis does the following:

- results in usually hashish being smuggled in (less bulky and smelly than grass). Means people are more likely to mix with tobacco (ever tried to roll a pure hash joint? I have a friend who does, but it's not nice). Also, hashish is much more difficult to cook with than grass.

- no-one has a choice as to what strength of cannabis to buy

- the Westies and their like control supply

- anyone who is underage can buy pot. 24 hours a day too

- bad prices for the producers

- people who buy pot come into contact with people who sell other drugs (the reason the Dutch effectively legalized it in the first place, to separate soft and hard drugs)

- one of the most popular drugs in Ireland (certainly the most popular illegal drug) is sold with ZERO tax being collected by the government

- and finally, ordinary, hardworking workers/parents/citizens are criminalized and stigmatized, their lives and careers possibly ruined because of a conviction for a victimless crime.

Julep etc, what you guys fail to realize is that you know a LOT of hardworking, responsible people who smoke pot. You just don't notice, possibly because your attitudes to pot make people reluctant to confide in you, but mainly because WE LOOK JUST LIKE YOU. We're not crazed lunatics, beating eachother up (unlike some drinkers) or stealing (unlike heroin addicts).

We are normal, responsible members of society, not criminals. And we hate it when we try and put our points across in a rational, calm manner, only to be called 'drug addicts' - usually by people who drink. Honestly, it's like talking to a wall sometimes.

layke

Maximilian wrote:

Should be de-criminalised at least. Its a horrible name but if they want to call their kids Mary Jane or Mary Sue, it should be up to them.

I went out with a girl called Mary-Jane for 2 years.

Floodzie

exCrumlinBoyo wrote:

If Ireland leaglized it, I would move back home to Dublin in a heart beat.

A country's attitude to Cannabis is usually a good indicator of how free that country is (at least in the west when it's used alongside alcohol).

Ireland and the USA are not as free as they like to think...

I lived in Holland for a while. They have the attitude that they should discuss anything and everything. It's the sign of a healthy democracy. There is none of that knee-jerk reactionary hysteria (once again, listen to Irish phone-ins for an example) that we get here.

Over there they think 'legalize cannabis? Ok, let's talk about the pros and cons'. Over here it's 'OH MY GOD - Think of the CHILDREN!!! You are SOFT ON DRUGS!!'.

How is that good for democracy? To be fair, we're only coming 'round from opression by a foreign state and church in Ireland, so there isn't a very long tradition of debate, discussion or participation.

Maybe we're getting there... could take a while, though.

There was a segment on Primetime (I think) the other night, discussing a government-commissioned report that called for a radical re-think of our drug laws. Needless to say, the government spokesman (an anonymous junior minister angling for a full-minister job) trotted out the old 'drugs are bad' line and then started to question the bona-fides of the report's authors... I mean come ON. The authors of that report know a LOT more about the reality of substance use than that nobody.

The worst thing about the show though was the way RTE brought a spokesman for the decriminilization lobby on... let's just say he didn't look like the kind of guy you wished your sister would bring home to meet the parents...

Before we convince the public we need to educate the media.

Sam Vimes

by the way, this is what happens when heroin is provided by the government instead of your local scumbag:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3592877.stm

Floodzie

Commander Vimes wrote:

by the way, this is what happens when heroin is provided by the government instead of your local scumbag:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3592877.stm

Excellent article. I heard of something similar being tried in Liverpool in the 90s. It was closed because of pressure from the US State Deptartment. Madness.

Can you imagine trying to bring in something similar in this right-wing backwater?? Finucane, Kenny, Duffy etc would be having a fit, and the politicians would all be hiding behind the 'drugs are bad' mantra.

Unless, of course, one of their sons or daughters becomes a junkie - they'd quickly change their mind about leaving addicts to a life of prostitution and shoplifting.

Best way to turn kids off trying heroin? Telling them they'll be spending a large part of their lives sucking c*** for money. That should do it.

Terry

layke wrote:

I went out with a girl called Mary-Jane for 2 years.

is your name "Peter Parker"?

blah blah blah. weed is good. drink is bad. it's all been said before.
it's never going to be legalised here. deal with it in some other way than smoking weed, because that doesn't seem to be chilling any of you out. You all seem quite aggressive in your push for legalisation. where's that relaxed buzz you all talk about?

Gurgle

Floodzie wrote:

A country's attitude to Cannabis is usually a good indicator of how free that country is (at least in the west when it's used alongside alcohol).

Ireland and the USA are not as free as they like to think...

Theres a big difference between how the prohibition is applied in Europe vs USA.
If you're caught in the states with cannabis you either do time or buy your way out of trouble (donation to charity/agree to attend a private clinic etc).
If you're caught here, the gardai will confiscate it. At worst its a small(ish) fine.

The only time anyone is punished harshly for cannabis here is when they are on the 'wanted' list - its an easy conviction.

John Gilligan is the classic example. He was convicted of having cannabis for sale or supply but the sentence was in line with the murder they 'knew' he was responsible for but for which they couldn't get a conviction.

Don't get me wrong - he is an absolute scumbag of the lowest order, but I don't agree with the method used to lock him up.

MOTHERTRUCKER

Not getting away from the issue but the European Court of Justice has rejected a legal bid to allow online European shoppers to purchase cheap cigarettes and alcohol anywhere throughout the EU.:(

The ruling is a blow to Europeans hoping to buy cheap alcohol abroad via the internet.

The Luxembourg-based court upheld the current interpretation of EU rules, which state that in order to benefit from cheaper taxes elsewhere, consumers have to travel to the EU country in question and pick up their purchases.
The National Off Licence Association welcomed the decision, calling on the Government to reduce the high rates of tax Irish consumers pay on alcohol.

Correct me if i'm wrong but the reason this legal bid was rejected was because the european court was presurised from many european countries
thats economy relises hugely on the income derived from taxes from the sale of cigerettes and alcohol. (Irish government receives over 1 billion in taxes).
So even thou these addictive "luxury" goods are the largest cause of death in the irish community each and every year, the government turns a blind eye to the negatives, and demands the monopoly on this business and give the tax payer no alternative.

Now back to the issue "should it be legalised?"
Within a crooked, narrowminded and selfish government like this????????
They want the monopoly on all irish tax payers money including Alcohol, cigerettes, VRT, Insurance, etc
We'd end up paying double what its worth derived through taxes.
Then you'd continue to have blackmarket dealers selling the stuff cheaper which would incourage an illegal market.

Your thoughts please?

Floodzie

Gurgle wrote:

Theres a big difference between how the prohibition is applied in Europe vs USA.
If you're caught in the states with cannabis you either do time or buy your way out of trouble (donation to charity/agree to attend a private clinic etc).
If you're caught here, the gardai will confiscate it. At worst its a small(ish) fine.

I suppose it depends on the judge. A friend of mine - a mother of three - was caught with an eighth at a music festival. The cops told her not to worry - they'd just take her name and confiscate the doobie and that would be that. Anyway, she got a summons and the whole thing including solicitor, fine and paying for 'rehabilitation classes' cost her a grand. Not pocket change to a young woman bringing up three kids.

The same thing happened to me, however, a few years before. I was caught with a half-ounce at another music festival and they just took my name and that was that.

Gurgle

Floodzie wrote:

I suppose it depends on the judge.

Gardai -> DPP -> Judge
Any of the 3 have the power to let it slide with a smack on the wrist.