Should IT be legalised?

Cactus Col

I was a little bit bored and was wondering whether people here thought the maryjane should be legalised here.

While I'm sure there have been a million previous threads about this I couldn't see one right away so thought I'd ask about people's opinions, whether they support the legalisation or not .. and what arguments they have for or against.

While I think it should not be legalised at the moment (I'll put my arguments down once I can write them [or more properly it] clearly.

Maximilian

Should be de-criminalised at least. Its a horrible name but if they want to call their kids Mary Jane or Mary Sue, it should be up to them.

Boggle

Fail to see any specific reason to ban it so why not legalise it?

Aava

No it shouldn't, this country is bad enough as it is.

Sleepy

I'd be for this on pretty much the same grounds I'd be for the legalisation of fireworks. It could be legitimised, quality could be controlled, it's widely available anyway and tax revenue could be generated on it.

The gateway drug argument no more holds up for marijuana than it does for alcohol.

In my opinion (and I'm sure it's been proven by research) it's a less damaging drug than alcohol and it's been proven to be of use in treating the symptoms of a number of ailments.

Like many other substances, abuse of marijuana can be dangerous to your (mental) health but it's no more a risk than any of these.

That said, I'm a pretty liberal person where personal choice is concerned (though I do expect people to live up to the consequences of their choices). I don't see it happening any time soon in our repressive society.

Kêrmêttê

An old friend of mine has MS and her symptoms would be greatly reduced if she could be allowed to have maraijuana. I also met another girl from Canada a few years ago who was suffering from leukemia. She was prescribed small doses to aid her treatment.
There are definately many medical arguments to pro-legalisation.

stevenmu

The main reason I can see for legalising it is to take it out of the hands of the drug dealing scum who bring it in. I'm not talking about your "mate who just sells a bit to some of the lads" but the people further up the chain who do other things besides selling weed.

edit: Oh yeah, medical reasons are good too.

mayordenis

Aava wrote:

No it shouldn't, this country is bad enough as it is.

one of the biggest problems in this country is drug dealing, to take that away would be a far better society

ro_chez

Aava wrote:

No it shouldn't, this country is bad enough as it is.

Care to elaborate on that?

Personally I think it definitely should be for all the reasons mentioned, and to get some real weed in this country instead of the contaminated crap alot of people smoke in this country which is far more dangerous than some nice quality bud.

steveland?

Aava wrote:

No it shouldn't, this country is bad enough as it is.

Yeh god forbid we should all chill out a little.

Anyways I'm kind of split on this issue. On the one hand I'm not a big fan of having to buy it off of shady people where ya dont know what you're getting and I'd rather the money not go to drug dealers or drug producers.

On the other hand if it was legalised it would probably only be de-criminalised as opposed to allowing you to just go up to the local hash shop and buyin an ounce or whatever...

The government would probably put huge levys on it too and i'd be too flaked to go out and work and earn money to buy it if it were widely available.

Plus no chances of hash bars like in amsterdam cos of the smoking ban

stevieg_irl

oh ya, legalise it big time
wudnt have to bum the makings of a friend then

Piste

If it were legalised wouldn't there still be dealers (albeit much less of them) around willing to sell hash at a much cheaper price then the inevitably highly-taxed hash?

stagolee

Gummybearz!!! wrote:

If it were legalised wouldn't there still be dealers (albeit much less of them) around willing to sell hash at a much cheaper price then the inevitably highly-taxed hash?

i dont think so as they wouldnt realy be able to undercut legitimate taxed importers who dont have to go to the risk of smuggling (i mean if you look at the price of tobbacco for the weight sold and imagined them selling grass for the same price), also most people would buy at legitimate vendors taking away such a large percentage of the market from smugglers that the big time smugglers would soon see there was little or no money left to be made in it and stop.

personaly i think that it should certainly be legalized as among other things it might provide an alternative to our alcahol obsessed culture, i would love to quit the drink for a while but its impossible as the only place i can meet my freinds is at the pub and its just no fun sitting there stone cold sober and watching them get progressivley more rat arsed.

maybe hash bars here wouldnt be so impossible if it was a totaly new industry maybe they could only hire smokers and get them to sign some sort of form before they started work saying they didnt mind working in an environment with marajuanna smoke (tobacco smoke would still have to be banned though or the regular pubs would be up in arms) or failing that they could be mostly outdoor ventures,

ah all this talk of grass is making me want to go out and try find some, its been nigh on six months since i last had a spliff

NotMe

stagolee wrote:

i dont think so as they wouldnt realy be able to undercut legitimate taxed importers who dont have to go to the risk of smuggling (i mean if you look at the price of tobbacco for the weight sold and imagined them selling grass for the same price), also most people would buy at legitimate vendors taking away such a large percentage of the market from smugglers that the big time smugglers would soon see there was little or no money left to be made in it and stop.

What about the people selling ciggarettes for cheap? No doubt the criminals would rob shipments of hash and sell it for cheap like they do with ciggarettes.

Anyway I say legalise it.

phoenix2181

legalise it & let the govt tax the hell out of it (as much as cigs), cuts out the dealer scum & we could have some fine quality grass for a change.

The Govt could also put a percentage of the profits made from it into anti-smoking campaigns (yes yes I know) & some of it into extra drug squads to get rid of the hard sh1t (coke,H etc) that Junkie scum are trying to deal to the kids.

So remember kids...vote for Phoenix2181 in the next election

Lisapeep

If it were legalised, current users would still buy it, but also new users would start using it because of how convenient it would become to obtain. I'd say keep users to a minimum.

Tiriel

I say they should decriminalise it for the moment.. I mean people are better citizens after a smoke than drink after all.. I mean you couldn't be bothered gettin into a fight .. it'd be like oh yeah.. later..

elivsvonchiaing

I think it should be legalised for medical purposes- with unlimited supply.

I see myself in 40 years surrounded, by 3 generations - constantly visiting me

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Lisapeep wrote:

If it were legalised, current users would still buy it, but also new users would start using it because of how convenient it would become to obtain. I'd say keep users to a minimum.

it already is everywhere, the people who want to smoke it do smoke it. if it were decriminalised there would be a small surge of new tokers just trying it out, some would decide to keep smoking.. and most wouldn't. It's not addictive and it's not incredibly harmful so there is no good reason to "keep users to a minimum" excepting of course moral outrage.

anyway as was shown in holland, decriminlisation does not lead to a large increase in the number of users. It rose slightly at first but once the novelty of it wore off alot of people stopped smoking, quite a large percentage of the dutch population doesn't smoke weed. It's just another drug over there, I was staying at a friends house talking to his mother about how it was illegal over here. She doesn't smoke but she was shocked when I told her you could be arrested and sent to jail for selling it, she didn't understand why something so harmless would be criminalised.

I agree with her

stagolee

NotMe: "What about the people selling ciggarettes for cheap? No doubt the criminals would rob shipments of hash and sell it for cheap like they do with ciggarettes"

the guys flogging crap tobacco on moore st. are probaly the best example of what i mean , almost nobody buys that stuff off them cos it not much cheaper and most people would prefer to go to a shop , so what do you have? a few aul fellas making pocket change. whereas cannabis import currently nets millions for criminals that have large well organized smuggling operations , why? 'cos theres a demand for it and you cant get it in the shops

Lisapeep: "If it were legalised, current users would still buy it, but also new users would start using it because of how convenient it would become to obtain."

hopefully a few of them would , and they might drink less as a result. now saying this is probably about as wise as standing up in the middle of an american republican party convention and shouting "I LOVE BIN LADEN" at the top of my voice but i think booze is bad :eek: , im only slowly coming to this realization as ive been drinking as long as i can remember and so has almost everyone else i know (it can be hard to see things from so close up). i for one would welcome legalization as it would mean i could meet my freinds down the local for a spliff or two , ahh the bliss no fist fights cos you looked at someone funny no having the ear bored off you by a morbidy drunk mate who has decided because theyre drunk that everyone hates them , no horrible f**king hangover in the morning, imagine all the people hanging out in peace with nothing more to worry about than a fit of the giggles or the munchies (right id better shut up now befor i break into song )

elivsvonchiaing

stagolee wrote:

no horrible f**king hangover in the morning, imagine all the people hanging out in peace with nothing more to worry about than a fit of the giggles or the munchies (right id better shut up now befor i break into song )

Imagine no posessions... {Wtf is rainbow_kirby when needed} I do agree with legalising it on a phased basis. Still think it should be initially medicinal - so driving legistlation can be brought into line first. What's the drug clinically called anyhow. How many mg/100ml blood should be allowed? Anyone know?

Blub2k4

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

so driving legistlation can be brought into line first. What's the drug clinically called anyhow. How many mg/100ml blood should be allowed? Anyone know?

As far as I know this is one of the major obstacles to legalisation as it is. Nobody really knows how much in your system should be allowed.

Spalk0

Lisapeep wrote:

If it were legalised, current users would still buy it, but also new users would start using it because of how convenient it would become to obtain. I'd say keep users to a minimum.

Actually Lisa i think i read this somewhere but since its been legalised in Amsterdam the number of local users has dropped and is below the european average!
I personally am for legalising it!first of all it will get the dealers off the street and bring in proper stuff!I also think violence would drop, reason for this, how Stone people have you come across who wanna start a fight?not many and i cant imagine many either!it will also divert us away from our binge drinking which is far more dangerous than smoking weed!
The only bad thing i can see about it is that it will probably cost more with tax and all but at least it will be very good!

My 2 cents worth!

FX Meister

Mordeth wrote:

It's not addictive and it's not incredibly harmful so there is no good reason to "keep users to a minimum" excepting of course moral outrage.
she was shocked when I told her you could be arrested and sent to jail for selling it, she didn't understand why something so harmless would be criminalised.

For a start it is not harmless, and to say it's not addictive is just being naive. It is psychologically addictive and I've both read studies on this and witnessed it in people I know. And as for getting sent to jail for selling it, if you go to jail for selling it then you are obviously smuggling very large quantities or you are a serious repeat offender and deserve time in jail. They system gives you more chances to clean up your act than you deserve.

Gurgle

Blub2k4 wrote:

As far as I know this is one of the major obstacles to legalisation as it is. Nobody really knows how much in your system should be allowed.

This could be determined in the space of a week with a handful of willing test subjects:

Take a toke, give a blood sample, drive around the circuit, repeat until crash.

Of course, for the government to commission the report would cost €160 million.

On the original question, of course it should be legalised, for all the given reasons. Nothing should be illegal without scientific evidence that there exists a real measureable significant risk involved in using it.

Spalk0

FX Meister wrote:

For a start it is not harmless, and to say it's not addictive is just being naive. It is psychologically addictive and I've both read studies on this and witnessed it in people I know. And as for getting sent to jail for selling it, if you go to jail for selling it then you are obviously smuggling very large quantities or you are a serious repeat offender and deserve time in jail. They system gives you more chances to clean up your act than you deserve.

While i agree its psycologically addictive it is far less addictive than alcohol!why is it loads of people in this country have such a relaxed attitude about(in my experience) a far more dangerous substance in alcohol and are yet totally against a far milder one in cannibis?I think i heard that not one person has died from an overdose on cannibis and dont get me started on the thousands that are killed from alcohol every year!

Gurgle

FX Meister wrote:

For a start it is not harmless

Neither are alcohol, tobacco, sugar, E-numbers, cream buns, and lots of other legal things. Not good enough.

FX Meister wrote:

and to say it's not addictive is just being naive. It is psychologically addictive

IMHO psychological addiction is a made up term for when they want to keep something illegal even though its not addictive.

Really addictive things - Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, heroin, cocaine, morphine, prozac.
Yet the only substance in the world on the 'psychologically addictive' list is marajuana ?

FX Meister wrote:

and I've both read studies on this and witnessed it in people I know.

Thats called anecdotal evidence. It doesn't count.

FX Meister wrote:

And as for getting sent to jail for selling it, if you go to jail for selling it then you are obviously smuggling very large quantities or you are a serious repeat offender and deserve time in jail. They system gives you more chances to clean up your act than you deserve.

Yep, you're dead right, people don't get sent to jail unless they are caught smuggling large quantities. Thats because the gardai and the judges know perfectly well that its largely harmless.

Blub2k4

Gurgle wrote:

This could be determined in the space of a week with a handful of willing test subjects:

Take a toke, give a blood sample, drive around the circuit, repeat until crash.

Of course, for the government to commission the report would cost €160 million.

On the original question, of course it should be legalised, for all the given reasons. Nothing should be illegal without scientific evidence that there exists a real measureable significant risk involved in using it.

It appears that it is not that easy, the Dutch dont even know how to regulate it. I know the Germans were seriously considering the Dutch model while I was living there and what stopped them was a blood:thc level test for the roadside, they were eventually talking about banning anyone who had any THC in their blood.

Gurgle

Blub2k4 wrote:

they were eventually talking about banning anyone who had any THC in their blood.

If the market was there, one of these multinational Pharmaceuticals would have a DIY test for sale within months.

FX Meister

Gurgle wrote:

Neither are alcohol, tobacco, sugar, E-numbers, cream buns, and lots of other legal things. Not good enough.


IMHO psychological addiction is a made up term for when they want to keep something illegal even though its not addictive.

Really addictive things - Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, heroin, cocaine, morphine, prozac.
Yet the only substance in the world on the 'psychologically addictive' list is marajuana ?


Thats called anecdotal evidence. It doesn't count.


Yep, you're dead right, people don't get sent to jail unless they are caught smuggling large quantities. Thats because the gardai and the judges know perfectly well that its largely harmless.

I don't really feel like getting into an argument about it but your comparison to cream buns and sugar hold no weight at all. You also think psychological addiction is a made up term, that's just ignorant. And it is not the only drug on the 'psychologically addictive' list as you call it. And because I've read studies on it's effects and have also seen these effects first hand they don't count? Do you think that the Gardai and Judges decide they believe themselves that cannabis is harmless so let dealers away with it? There are plenty of crimes that people commit who get second chances afterwards. You seem to be taking a very immature view of this whole argument.

Blub2k4

Gurgle wrote:

IMHO psychological addiction is a made up term for when they want to keep something illegal even though its not addictive.

Really addictive things - Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, heroin, cocaine, morphine, prozac.
Yet the only substance in the world on the 'psychologically addictive' list is marajuana ?

You're talking rubbish man, Gambling is also phychologically addictive, or do you think that the only addiction is physiological? Do you actually know the difference between Psychological and physiological which are both made up words, I mean all words are made up.
THC is addictive, I have seen people sell furniture to score an eighth.