Should IT be legalised?

Kone

Blub2k4 wrote:

THC is addictive, I have seen people sell furniture to score an eighth.

it was a great suite of furniture and all :rolleyes:

Spalk0

Well i have never seen someone sell furniture or anything to that extreme to buy hash!I have felt the twinge of addiction towards it myself but it doesnt holhd a candle towards the addiction of cigarettes or alcohol!

Gurgle

Blub2k4 wrote:

You're talking rubbish man, Gambling is also phychologically addictive, or do you think that the only addiction is physiological?

Gambling is not a substance. THC is not an activity.
Yes, I think the only addiction to a substance is physiological. Thats what addiction means in terms of a drug.

Blub2k4 wrote:

Do you actually know the difference between Psychological and physiological which are both made up words, I mean all words are made up.

:rolleyes: Read what I posted. The actual words.

Blub2k4 wrote:

THC is addictive, I have seen people sell furniture to score an eighth.

This sentence actually gives more information than you might think:
1. Your friends have really really crap furniture.
2. Your friends need to get jobs

One eighth costs about €12.50 and would last an average 'evening' smoker about a week.

Thats the price of 2 packs of cigarettes.

Or 3 pints.

User45701

Bill Hicks said that pot was a better drug than drink because whenever there is a fight ppl are drunk and that maryjane would just calm everyone down and it would be anice ahhpy wourdl with lots of hungry happy high ppl wondering around

Blub2k4

Gurgle wrote:

Gambling is not a substance. THC is not an activity.
Yes, I think the only addiction to a substance is physiological. Thats what addiction means in terms of a drug.

You have absolutely no idea about addiction.

Gurgle

Blub2k4 wrote:

You have absolutely no idea about addiction.

I do know that I can smoke the stuff on a daily basis for a year then give up for weeks without any ill effects, except that I smoke more cigarettes when I've no pot.

But I do appreciate you educating me about your first hand knowledge on the subject. Please go on, give some more examples of desperate people selling their property and their bodies for their desperately needed joint.

Maybe you should recount(read: make up) a story about pensioners being mugged and robbed by a desperate stoner ?

MrJoeSoap

Can see the pros and cons but have to say no.

ionapaul

Gurgle wrote:

Nothing should be illegal without scientific evidence that there exists a real measureable significant risk involved in using it.

You try this logic with GM foods (ask for some proof that they are harmful) and see how crazy people will become telling you that anything genetically modified is un-natural and is bad for you!

I don't think hash bars are an option under the present smoking laws.

Spalk0

Sorry chief but he is making more sense than you at the moment!Gambling is not something physical, its mental.....whereas THC or whatever it is is a physical substance!Ive smoked heavily for years yet i never found myself addicted to it!it wouldnt surprise me if it was largely exaggerated or made up!but i never thought i needed it i just enjoyed it alot hence i done alot!

ferdi

decriminalisation is the way for now, but this country is so full of **** kicking, bible bashing, ignorant 'dont know what they are talking about' assholes that it wont happen.

any reasonable person whos judgement isnt clouded by what politicians, clerics and the media tell them can see the complete insanity of having alcohol legal and cannabis illegal.

how many alcohol related deaths in the last 10 years in ireland? i would look it up but the figures would probably scare the **** out of me.

...

Tiesto

I dont think so.
i have been to amsterdam a number of times and i have talked to many dutch people about it..
Yea they thinks its good for some reasons...
such as the obvíous ones..
U know what ur buying instead of going to the streets getting the not so good stuff.. and the government making some money from the tax on it...
but the Dutch government didnt see coming the massive amounts of illegal drugs in amsterdam which can be obtained very easily..... or the large amounts of drug addicted bums hanging around the streets wrecking peoples heads...

Boggle

Ok, as far as being psychologically addictive you have to remember that drinking can also be psychologically addictive - it is just overlooked as the physiological is a far more potent addiction.

While I do respect that there is a risk of addiction (albeit very low) I would remind you that anything you enjoy can be addictive... even sport can be addictive as people get addicted to adrenaline and I know alot of people with an addiction to playing playstation or watching television!

The main point is though that if you want to compare it with alcohol you would find that alcohol is far more addictive (both psycho- and physiologically) than smoke, it has worse medical risks attached and aslo has more social problems attached to it (again the argument about a stoner never starting a fight). Unless there are other factors you are aware of that I have overlooked or I have interpreted something wrong then the only conclusion to make is that we should either ban alcohol or legalise smoke... maybe both to clear uo the A&E wards AND keep everyone happy!!!

Gurgle

ionapaul wrote:

You try this logic with GM foods (ask for some proof that they are harmful) and see how crazy people will become telling you that anything genetically modified is un-natural and is bad for you!

I don't think hash bars are an option under the present smoking laws.

You can find crazy people who'll object to anything.

btw oxygen causes excessive aging.
Really, stop breathing it, you'll never get any older.
Maybe it should be made illegal.

Blub2k4

Gurgle wrote:

I do know that I can smoke the stuff on a daily basis for a year then give up for weeks without any ill effects, except that I smoke more cigarettes when I've no pot.

But I do appreciate you educating me about your first hand knowledge on the subject. Please go on, give some more examples of desperate people selling their property and their bodies for their desperately needed joint.

Maybe you should recount(read: make up) a story about pensioners being mugged and robbed by a desperate stoner ?

I have a lot of first hand experience with a lot of substances, and with addiction in general being an addict with a checkered past.
Presently my addictive streak is taken care of with a regular dose of THC, it keeps me on the straight and narrow, if you talk to a lot of reformed hard drug users they say the same.
I started with alcohol, gambling then moved on to hard stuff.
The substance does not matter ( nor the activity ) if you have any idea about addiction you will know this, the same patterns occur no matter what the activity ( smoking is an activity ).
I didn't make up anything I dont need to, the person in question sold a wooden cabinet that was in the house (belonging to the landlord) from his flat in London and then used the profit to buy an 1/8th.
I smoke a lot and am around smokers a lot, so explain to me why people ( not all people) get narcy when they dont get thier smoke, some even become unbearable to be around, I'll tell you why cos they are addicted.
I am an addict that was forced to come to terms with my THC addiction despite years of denial ( cos I didn't want it to be true of my beloved THC, but it is).

I have not seen anyone go as far as to mug someone but stealing ....most definitely.

FX Meister

Gurgle wrote:

I do know that I can smoke the stuff on a daily basis for a year then give up for weeks without any ill effects, except that I smoke more cigarettes when I've no pot.

Many people get addicted to different types of SSRI drugs, the addiction is not physical, it is psychological, is this made up? Psychological addiction occurs with a huge number of legal drugs, including alcohol and cigarettes. Yet you seem to think it is a made up term, made up by a group you call 'they'. Who are 'they'? You need to structure your arguments a bit better, you're not really a very good candidate for legalisation or decriminalization in my opinion.

ferdi

people get addicted to anything....if you do anything regularly enough and then stop of course you will suffer withdrawal/

cannabis may be addictive but it should not be put in the same league as coke,gear, crack and acid - it should not be illegal.

Blub2k4

ferdi wrote:

people get addicted to anything....if you do anything regularly enough and then stop of course you will suffer withdrawal/

cannabis may be addictive but it should not be put in the same league as coke,gear, crack and acid - it should not be illegal.

I dont think that it should be illegal either, but I do think it is addictive and anyone attempting to promote it as a non-addictive drug is not doing the legalistation campaign any favours.

FX Meister

It's not put in the same league Ferdi, it is considered a less dangerous drug by the authorities and is treated as such

steveland?

FX Meister wrote:

For a start it is not harmless, and to say it's not addictive is just being naive. It is psychologically addictive and I've both read studies on this and witnessed it in people I know. And as for getting sent to jail for selling it, if you go to jail for selling it then you are obviously smuggling very large quantities or you are a serious repeat offender and deserve time in jail. They system gives you more chances to clean up your act than you deserve.

Just out of interest how much can you have on you at any one time before they class you as a dealer? There is a cut off point of only an ounce or two before they can arrest you for dealing

Spalk0

think its less than that SteveD!

think its only a half ounce or more!Seen a chap in court over an ounce!

Anyways, i do think its slightly addictive as is loads of activities and drugs!However i think its far less addictive than Smoking or alcohol!and i have done all three man a time!put it this way, was a heavy hash smoker for years(sometimes smoked an ounce a week) and i had no prblems giving it up!i have just given up smoking today and had serious problems giving up smoking before!Alcohol i have yet to kick and i do drink a lot of it!I do see your point a bit blub2k4, but i have never myself gotten even close to that desperate for the stuff nor have i ever met anyone like that either and in my time i knew or still know a lot of them!I think a lot of smokers are social ones!I was, i never got stoned if i was on my own but just with mates!

FX Meister

I'm not sure of the cut off point but it depends a lot on your circumstances how you will be treated by a judge. You can be caught with quite a lot and still walk free from court

Gurgle

Blub2k4 wrote:

I have a lot of first hand experience with a lot of substances, and with addiction in general being an addict with a checkered past.
Presently my addictive streak is taken care of with a regular dose of THC, it keeps me on the straight and narrow, if you talk to a lot of reformed hard drug users they say the same.

Fair play to you, seriously, but do you not think that maybe the problem is either your own personal psychological problem which led you to take hard drugs in the first place, or a result of your usage of hard drugs ?

Blub2k4 wrote:

I didn't make up anything I dont need to, the person in question sold a wooden cabinet that was in the house (belonging to the landlord) from his flat in London and then used the profit to buy an 1/8th.

.

Again, I would think that the person had a problem and the cannabis usage is a symptom rather than the cause. I never have and never will steal to pay for pot.

Blub2k4 wrote:

I smoke a lot and am around smokers a lot, so explain to me why people ( not all people) get narcy when they dont get thier smoke, some even become unbearable to be around.

I have never seen that, but none of the smokers I know have ever been hard drug addicts.

Actually, you raise another point. If legalised, cannabis would be very beneficial in rehabilitating drug addicts.

ferdi

any more than a quarter ounce (7 grams) (30euros worth) and it is no longer consideres for presonal use.

fiacha

making it legal won't remove dealers from the streets.
people will want to buy it cheaper, just like there's a market for stolen cigarettes and drink.
also, they'll be selling it to kids as it would only be legal to sell to over 18s.

i don't think you would be allowed to use it in public (passive toking ??), so people will still be going to the pub. don't see it affecting drink related violence. scum will be scum, drunk or high they'll still be kicking lumps out of people.

tbh i can't see any harm in legalising it. it's so commonly used in ireland at the moment, that I can't see the situation getting any worse.

ferdi

fiacha wrote:

making it legal won't remove dealers from the streets.
people will want to buy it cheaper, just like there's a market for stolen cigarettes and drink.

no they wont, how many people buy weed of some guy on the street in holland? and how many people buy illegal drink and smokes over here - not that many.

Spalk0

sure they sell it to kids anyways!Dealers dont care how old you are!I know with dealers its never convenient or easy to get all the time so people would use legal vendors a lot more since its gauranteed you can get it and dont have to go through hassle of ringing up loads of people!

FX Meister

Gurgle wrote:

Actually, you raise another point. If legalised, cannabis would be very beneficial in rehabilitating drug addicts.

Not necessarily, heroin addicts are prescribed methadone as an easy solution to the problem, it is even given to addicts who have never even used a needle. It may contain the problem but is not a solution, it does not remove the addiction.

Gurgle

FX Meister wrote:

Many people get addicted to different types of SSRI drugs, the addiction is not physical, it is psychological, is this made up? Psychological addiction occurs with a huge number of legal drugs, including alcohol and cigarettes. Yet you seem to think it is a made up term, made up by a group you call 'they'. Who are 'they'? You need to structure your arguments a bit better, you're not really a very good candidate for legalisation or decriminalization in my opinion.

AFAIK SSRI drugs are used as anti-depressants. They are used in dosages to keep the patient happy all the time 24/7. Stopping the dosages is going to lead to a relapse into the original condition which was being treated. Presumably the patient had become psychologically addicted to not being depressed.

Alcohol and cigarettes are physiologically addictive, like heroin and cocaine. Thats my point!

'They' are the cynical conservatives in the USA who started the anti-cannabis mis-information campaign with the Marajuana Tax Act

The bill was passed on the grounds that marijuana caused "Murder, insanity and death".

FX Meister wrote:

Not necessarily, heroin addicts are prescribed methadone as an easy solution to the problem, it is even given to addicts who have never even used a needle. It may contain the problem but is not a solution, it does not remove the addiction.

Read Blub's testimonial above.

ferdi

the only thing that remove the addiction to things like heroin is going through the hell of cold turkey and even then its one day at a time, if a joint can help people back on their feet, why not...

BolBill

They'll never legalise Mary Jane, because its a drug that makes people happy(generally), people wouldn't go to work because they'd wonder why they have to!!!!!
Alcohol keeps us all depressed and in line with what the government wants.