Should IT be legalised?

FX Meister

Back to what the thread was about at the start. I don't think fully legalising it is the answer, and decriminalisation doesn't really stop the dudes at the top. How about decriminalising the growing of cannabis for personal use. That way hopefully only people who know what they are doing and who put in a bit of effort for what they want get it.

Spalk0

Well apparently in Holland the reason the usage has dropped is because the novelty is wearing off than when it was illegal!

Blub2k4

Trigger! wrote:

Well apparently in Holland the reason the usage has dropped is because the novelty is wearing off than when it was illegal!

This would seem to be true, and where it is relevant this is true of all drugs in their relaxed environment.
Holland is quite often made a scapegoat of other countries bad policies as it has become a centre for weed, that gets exported to other countries. Thing is that if other countries had the same laws as Holland then marijuana related crime would not concentrate there.

Gurgle

FX Meister wrote:

Back to what the thread was about at the start. I don't think fully legalising it is the answer, and decriminalisation doesn't really stop the dudes at the top. How about decriminalising the growing of cannabis for personal use. That way hopefully only people who know what they are doing and who put in a bit of effort for what they want get it.

Good compromise.
Gets rid of the drug smuggling / ****e quality problems, though it could turn into a case of criminal gangs growing & distributing it instead of importing it.

Spalk0

Well i didnt mention it for that reason its just that a lot of people here are for the legalisation, hell, even i am!but what if it does become legal and then most of us here wouldnt like it as much or just wouldnt use it as much!I think some of the appeal innit is that it is illegal and wrong, so to speak!

FX Meister

That's why it would only be allowed to grow for personal use, gangs growing large quantities of it don't have any excuse to use if caught. As for it being appealing because it's illegal, I don't know if I'd agree with that statement. The fact that it's illegal is not a deciding factor in my case, at least if it was legal I wouldn't have to worry about using it in public or taking it with me places I go.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

For a start it is not harmless, and to say it's not addictive is just being naive

i said "not incredibly harmful". That is not the same as harmless.

It is psychologically addictive and I've both read studies on this and witnessed it in people I know.

uh ! bold!

BOLD!

it *can* be psychologically addictive, not *is*. If you read those studies, you probably didn't understand them.

and i was talking about physically addictive, it can be psychologically addictive in a small number (i think 5-10% of users?) to varying degrees. But even then, it is far less harmful an addictive substance than alcohol (which is nice and legal). To say something is dangerous because it is psychologically addictive is really to say "i don't understand what addiction means". Anything can be psychologically addictive, it depends entirely on the person. Take coffee for example, how many people here have woken up in the morning before work and fully believed they needed a nice black cup of coffee before they could face the day?


If it were decriminalised and sold in shops or whatever, it would remove 99% of the "dealers" customer base. Why would you risk doing something illegal (for dirt quality hash) when you could just head into town and buy a few grammes of purple haze/white widow/etc etc. Sure it might be a little dearer, but it's of such a higher quality that you wouldn't be smoking as much anyway.

As for it being appealing because it's illegal, I don't know if I'd agree with that statement. The fact that it's illegal is not a deciding factor in my case,

are you 16? When something is illegal, and taboo it is alot more likely that kids will want to do it.

And as for getting sent to jail for selling it, if you go to jail for selling it then you are obviously smuggling very large quantities or you are a serious repeat offender and deserve time in jail

"serious repeat offender" ?

Keyzer

Compare the smoking of cannabis to drinking alcohol.
I have never seen someone come out of a coffee shop and start a fight in Amsterdam, nor have I ever been in a group of people smoking and violence broke out.

Look at the European championships a few years back in Holland and Belgium, the English hooligans were fine in Holland, once they got to Belgium they destroyed the place.

People were smoking cannabis for thousands of years until someone decided it was illegal (or something).

Anyway, my point being, there are far worse things than cannabis out there...

Keyzer

FX Meister wrote:

Back to what the thread was about at the start. I don't think fully legalising it is the answer, and decriminalisation doesn't really stop the dudes at the top. How about decriminalising the growing of cannabis for personal use. That way hopefully only people who know what they are doing and who put in a bit of effort for what they want get it.

Excellent point....

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Look at the European championships a few years back in Holland and Belgium, the English hooligans were fine in Holland, once they got to Belgium they destroyed the place.

I remember reading something about portugese police officers having a very active "looking the other way" policy when english soccer fans were there for .. whatever soccer match a while back.

Excellent point....

why? ...

should only people who know how to brew beer be allowed drink? That's a stupid point.
Alot of people wouldn't *want* the hassle of growing plants, they just want a joint every now and again. If it is decriminalised at all it should be taxed and sold in stores or special cannabis-shops or *whatever*. In holland you can have up to 5 (i think) plants, more than that and you get fined. Also due to pressure from the French (and other surrounding goverments) there is a limit to posession of 5 grammes per person, as a result you can't buy more than 5 grammes in any one coffee shop. legally anyway.

That is a decent enough system, it's not perfect.. but 5 grammes is nothing to be scoffed at. it's smaller than a quarter, which is the current "cut off" point between posession/supply here but the Mj is of such a high quality that you would need a lot less.

Anyone who's smoked *proper* hash, instead of the **** we have in ireland will know the truth of this. Unbelievable ****.

stevenmu

Keyzer wrote:

People were smoking cannabis for thousands of years until someone decided it was illegal (or something).

People were also killing and eating each other for thousands of years before someone decided that too was wrong. Altough I agree with your points in general. People smoking cannabis are hurting themselves to a degree but they're not hurting others so there's no reason to stop them. It's not the governments place, or society's, to tell us what we can and can't do in the privacy of own homes as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's rights. The main negative effect cannabis currently has on society is the money and power it gives to drug dealers, the solution to that is pretty obvious, or so I would have thought :rolleyes: .

elivsvonchiaing

Mordeth wrote:

Anyone who's smoked *proper* hash, instead of the **** we have in ireland will know the truth of this. Unbelievable ****.

Happened to me in Amsterdam. I was like a goldfish for the rest of the day. My friends were joking to me that it was like leading a small child around a big city

The sh1t here is pure crap

Keyzer

stevenmu wrote:

People were also killing and eating each other for thousands of years before someone decided that too was wrong. Altough I agree with your points in general. People smoking cannabis are hurting themselves to a degree but they're not hurting others so there's no reason to stop them. It's not the governments place, or society's, to tell us what we can and can't do in the privacy of own homes as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's rights. The main negative effect cannabis currently has on society is the money and power it gives to drug dealers, the solution to that is pretty obvious, or so I would have thought :rolleyes: .

What the hell has cannabalism and murder got to do with smoking dope?
People have being doing many other things for thousands of years, so by me making that point does that mean I am justifying all horrific and evil acts that have been going on for thousands of years? No, it doesn't.

Anyway, alcohol is much more destrucive socially than smoking dope.
Nothing is done about alcohol its destuctive consequences on society, all you have to do is walk through town on a Saturday night, its like a zoo, its intimidating and aggresive resulting from people drinking themselves into oblivion.

LoneGunM@n

I've never smoked hash, but I'm a firm believer that it should be legalised ... The argument that the main danger in legalising cannibas is that it could be a stepping stone to harder drugs is a little hard for me to swallow ... All research shows that alcohol and tobacco are a lot more addictive than cannibas, so why isn't the stepping stone argument used against them?

Legalise it, remove it from the control of criminals, then tax the hell out of it in an attempt to stop people smoking it!!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Legalise it, remove it from the control of criminals, then tax the hell out of it in an attempt to stop people smoking it!!

rofl

Blub2k4

LoneGunM@n wrote:

Legalise it, remove it from the control of criminals, then tax the hell out of it in an attempt to stop people smoking it!!

I dont understand,
Tax it so highly that it is more expensive than presently?
In this case the smugglers now are simply evading tax and breaking another law, their way is cheaper, they wont stop that way.

Tax it so much that it is cheaper than presently?
Err we already pay as much as we do, it'd be Soooooo difficult to have to pay less?????

Think about it.
The only way legalisation works is if it works out too cheap to risk smuggling.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

not realy, most of the weed/hash (ESPECIALLY the hash.. dear ****ing stuff) in holland is dearer than what we'd buy here.. but the quality (and variety in taste) is so much higher that it's worth the price.

LoneGunM@n

Blub2k4 wrote:

I dont understand,
Tax it so highly that it is more expensive than presently?
In this case the smugglers now are simply evading tax and breaking another law, their way is cheaper, they wont stop that way.

Tax it so much that it is cheaper than presently?
Err we already pay as much as we do, it'd be Soooooo difficult to have to pay less?????

Think about it.
The only way legalisation works is if it works out too cheap to risk smuggling.

I was basically ripping the p!ss out of the Irish way of disincentivising something ... my bad ... memo to self: find sarcastic smiley for future use

Blub2k4

LoneGunM@n wrote:

I was basically ripping the p!ss out of the Irish way of disincentivising something ... my bad ... memo to self: find sarcastic smiley for future use

Ah ok, it is kinda hard to read tone in text, especially considering some would suggest similar things seriously.

Cactus Col

If it was legalised I wouldn't say Lonegunman would have been to far of on how it would go ....

It would be legalised, at which stage more and more people would smoke it regularily becoming addicted (although I use that term mildly), and the tax on it would raise every budget, people would say to themselves, "once it gets to €10 for a pack of ten, then I'll stop" ... but they won't. They'd only be fooling themselves.

Best not to start smoking really.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

umm.. if it is decriminalised it better not be sold in ****ing cig packets pre-rolled, treated with god knows how many chemicals.

should be bought fresh, stored in little plastic baggies and rolled just prior to smoking
mmmmmm

Blub2k4

Mordeth wrote:

umm.. if it is decriminalised it better not be sold in ****ing cig packets pre-rolled, treated with god knows how many chemicals.

should be bought fresh, stored in little plastic baggies and rolled just prior to smoking
mmmmmm

You can be guaranteed that if they did that that they would also add the ammonia impact technology that they put into light cigarrettes too, to make them more effective ( read more addictive).

Cactus Col

Now that I think of it .... it was legalised ... it probably would be sold a few different ways (I'd imagine pre-rolled been the most popular eventually .. maybe not straight off, but as more people start smoking, I'd say they'd rely more and more on the pre-rolled stuff.

Gurgle

Mordeth wrote:

umm.. if it is decriminalised it better not be sold in ****ing cig packets pre-rolled, treated with god knows how many chemicals.

should be bought fresh, stored in little plastic baggies and rolled just prior to smoking
mmmmmm

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Cactus Col wrote:

Now that I think of it .... it was legalised ... it probably would be sold a few different ways (I'd imagine pre-rolled been the most popular eventually .. maybe not straight off, but as more people start smoking, I'd say they'd rely more and more on the pre-rolled stuff.

I really don't think so. Pre-rolled joints are not the "fashion" anywhere on the planet, it's all 'roll your own' or get a rolling machine.. there just isn't the market for machine rolled smokes. Most smokers (that I've met anyway ) enjoy rolling their own joints.. and everyone's got their own way of doing things.. everyone prefers a certain type of joint.

Blub2k4

Philip Morris have a pack patented quite a while now apparently, Marley brand with the rasta colours on it.

Cactus Col

Mordeth wrote:

I really don't think so. Pre-rolled joints are not the "fashion" anywhere on the planet, it's all 'roll your own' or get a rolling machine.. there just isn't the market for machine rolled smokes. Most smokers (that I've met anyway ) enjoy rolling their own joints.. and everyone's got their own way of doing things.. everyone prefers a certain type of joint.

pre rolled joints aren't really an option though .... (although I could be wrong .. not a smoker) .... there's not a market now .. but that's more because it's not legal to sell them .... if they were widely available then why not .... many novices have trouble rolling them, so this takes away all the fuss.

(like I said though ... I could be very wrong ... yoghurt and cakes would probably be a better delivery system)

Blub2k4

I think that pre-rolled would be a goer although in Holland when you buy a pre-rolled it has been hand or machine rolled, but not factory tailor made.
The Dutch situation is due to the grey legal status there as well I'd imagine otherwise someone would already be selling packaged tailor mades.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Well if it were legalised I don't think many more people would start to regularly smoke it, and if it became legal the "art of rolling" would be less of an underworld talent and more akin to the art of pulling a good pint..an act many Irish take some pride in at house parties and the like.

Some of the cannabis-shops might have pre-rolled joints on sale, but I doubt there would be enough demand to warrant packs of tens or 20. Especially considering pricewiss, that would probably be 5 grammes (or a bit less...maybe more? ) for ten joints, and the cheapest i saw white widow (one of many varities) in amsterdam was 5 grammes for 25 euro.. and that was a damn good deal

Gurgle

Cactus Col wrote:

pre rolled joints aren't really an option though .... (although I could be wrong .. not a smoker) ....
(like I said though ... I could be very wrong ... yoghurt and cakes would probably be a better delivery system)

The coffee shops in Amsterdam sell it as either a pre-rolled joint in a test tube or loose in a zip-loc baggie. From what I saw, most people smoking on a night out buy the joints.

I don't know if the pre-rolled are done by machine or nubile young maids.
(Obviously not by a big gay bloke called Hans)