Should IT be legalised?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

I didn't see many coffeeshops with pre rolled on sale, and.. most people smoking on a night out buy the joints.. WHAT?

i spent many..many.. MANY hours in coffeeshops the week I was over there and I didn't see a single person buy a pre rolled. Everyone came in, bought a few grammes.. sat down for a smoke or just left. Most of the dutch people I know too that smoke don't smoke the pre-rolled ones, they much prefer to roll their own.

Gurgle

Mordeth wrote:

I didn't see many coffeeshops with pre rolled on sale, and.. most people smoking on a night out buy the joints.. WHAT?

i spent many..many.. MANY hours in coffeeshops the week I was over there and I didn't see a single person buy a pre rolled. Everyone came in, bought a few grammes.. sat down for a smoke or just left. Most of the dutch people I know too that smoke don't smoke the pre-rolled ones, they much prefer to roll their own.

I was only there once, several years ago but that was how it was. They sold pre-rolled Js in all the coffee-shops I was in, as well as baggies. Allowing for short term memory destruction over that weekend, it may have been the same coffee shop every time.

For that matter, I couldn't see straight for most of the weekend. I may have
imagined it.

Amster-where?

FX Meister

Majority of the coffee shops I have been in sold pre rolled joints. I presume they are for tourists who can't/can't be bothered to roll? Much prefer a bong myself. They got some sweet Jerome Baker ones in the Grey Area, and some good quality stuff there too. I found though that it is much more expensive in Amsterdam than it is anywhere else in Holland.

Piste

Sorry to drag up this thread but this has really been annoying me: why is it illegal anyway? I mean, if it's not as bad as most people are saying it is, then what grounds do the government have to keep it illegal?

Gurgle

Gummybearz!!! wrote:

Sorry to drag up this thread but this has really been annoying me: why is it illegal anyway? I mean, if it's not as bad as most people are saying it is, then what grounds do the government have to keep it illegal?

We don't have a constitutional right to do what we want as long as we don't harm anybody else.

IMHO there is no TD with the balls to raise the subject as they are too worried about the backlash from the conservative voters. Priority number 1 is to keep their jobs.

The government don't need grounds to keep it illegal, its more a case of needing huge lists of signatures to bring to your local TD to campaign for it to be legalized.

seamus

Gurgle wrote:

We don't have a constitutional right to do what we want as long as we don't harm anybody else.

IMHO there is no TD with the balls to raise the subject as they are too worried about the backlash from the (ignorant) conservative voters. Priority number 1 is to keep their jobs.

The government don't need grounds to keep it illegal, its more a case of needing huge lists of signatures to bring to your local TD to campaign for it to be legalized.

There's also been so much money spent on the "drugs are bad mmkay" policies, that it would require a pretty large re-education campaign before legalisation even occured, saying "drugs are still bad, except marijuana, tobacco and alcohol, mmkay".

The vast majority in this country would be opposed to its legalisation. Parents afraid for their children, older people still believing it's an evil drug. The decades of campaigning against dope means that many many people are still ignorant about its use and effects. The people most educated are the young people, because they've tried it, but they're also the ones least likely to vote, regardless of what's promised.

It's certainly a topic that won't come up for political debate in any serious manner for fifteen or twenty years.

Gurgle

seamus wrote:

It's certainly a topic that won't come up for political debate in any serious manner for fifteen or twenty years.

I don't think it will take quite that long.
Candidates seem to be getting younger in recent elections, I'd guess there will be rumblings on the subject inside 5 years but whether it goes anywhere or gets shouted down by the conservatives is another story. Need a few TDs to admit they smoke it all the time.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

it's "drug awareness week" apparently, here in carlow. saw a big banner on one of the streets.

I wonder if it will be a week of intelligent discussion and heated debate about the pros & cons of recreational drug use, the differences between drug use and drug abuse and the many reasons people choose to take "drugs".

or will it be "if you do drugs, you go to jail. don't do drugs"

Piste

Most drugs awareness seems to be "Drugs are bad, ALL OF THEM (the illegal ones)" It's all biased so that people only know the cons and not the pros.

elivsvonchiaing

I've worked in IT for ages now. I just didn't realise I was working for the "firm" or something...

Aw wait I get it! Hmm it probably should be legalised alright this sh!t sh!t cost me too much

Floodzie

Hi All!!

New to this thread - been reading the last 7 pages of entries (slow day in work). Fascinating stuff.

I lived near Amsterdam for a few months about 10 years ago. Not sure what the situation is like now (can't imagine it's changed too much) but at the time doobie was technically illegal, but really really decriminalised!

As a result, shop owners had no legal rights and could have their business closed down if a senior cop suspected that hard drugs were being sold on the premises, or even within a hundred yards of the front door.

Most doobie fans probably aren't looking for FULL legalisation. Just enough to get supply out of the hands of the Westies etc, and improve the quality. Even if it means having to drive 10 miles away to The Only Shop In Ireland That Sells Doobie (open Monday mornings only), I could handle that.

Jaysus, I'm a typical pothead. Pedantic about the little things, and then do something stupid like drive home late at night with the cab light on in the car, thinking I'm just being paranoid and that people aren't staring...

Speaking of driving - apparantly a study was done in Australia that showed potheads were actually BETTER drivers (probably because they don't like to get beyond 2nd gear) than non-stoners... They had to bury that study, apparantly. Hmm, that could just be stoner-lore, though.

Incidentally, I don't drive stoned.

jester77

Must be a slow day if you are dragging up 2 year old threads!

Floodzie

Haha - another thing on the 'overlooked because I was 'entertaining' last night' list!

netwhizkid

I have read a little of this thread and I think that no drugs should be legalised and their should be tougher penalties for possession and I would give the Death Penalty to the King Pin who control the racket and make millions.

Floodzie

netwhizkid wrote:

I have read a little of this thread and I think that no drugs should be legalised and their should be tougher penalties for possession and I would give the Death Penalty to the King Pin who control the racket and make millions.

Maybe you should read all of the thread...

I presume you also include alcohol in your definition of drugs? Otherwise you are a hypocrite.

po0k

The first step is to legalise such substances for clinical testing. Until then, our government cannot legislate with credibility.

Prohibition does not work. This has been proven time and time again. It is a short-term fix to symptoms of a larger problem, and 'dirty drugs' are an easy political scapegoat for unfortunate circumstances or plain and simple incompetence and/or corruption.

Prohibition merely serves to create the need for criminal markets for such goods, which have secondary and tertiary impacts on society aside from the obvious junkies on the streets.

Gurgle

Floodzie wrote:

Maybe you should read all of the thread...

I presume you also include alcohol in your definition of drugs? Otherwise you are a hypocrite.

Make a note: Ignore everything netwhizkid says.

Floodzie

SyxPak wrote:

The first step is to legalise such substances for clinical testing. Until then, our government cannot legislate with credibility.

Prohibition does not work. This has been proven time and time again. It is a short-term fix to symptoms of a larger problem, and 'dirty drugs' are an easy political scapegoat for unfortunate circumstances or plain and simple incompetence and/or corruption.

Prohibition merely serves to create the need for criminal markets for such goods, which have secondary and tertiary impacts on society aside from the obvious junkies on the streets.

I agree. Some politicians tend to think they can eliminate behaviour through legislation... Maybe someone should tell them that the world doesn't work that way.

People want an alternative to going for a pint, preferably something that doesn't give them a hangover and enables them to get up for work the next morning.

I'm not sure if we'll ever see legalisation of doobie in Ireland for the simple reason that most politicians are very close to their local publicans - to the point that they use rooms in pubs to hold their clinics - and a lot of publicans have a large influence in their community. Although I was as surprised as anyone to see the tobacco ban brought in in pubs. But not surprised at all to see Minister McDowell's 'pizza and a beer' idea of letting restaurants/cafes sell beer quietly shelved.

In this country you will drink on an empty stomach, in a crowded bar and STANDING UP, young man! Any wonder the casualty wards are full of the er, casualties, of that policy? Now, if they'd only gone to a Dutch-style coffee shop instead...

bubonicus

Does making Nature against the law seem a little unnatural!!!!

ELVIS DIDN'T DO NO DRUGS!

Floodzie

Gurgle wrote:

Make a note: Ignore everything netwhizkid says.

Unfortunately, his attitude is more prevalent than ours... His post sounds like a quote from one of the phone-ins.

I used to think that maybe that sort of attitude would change with my generation - sadly though there is a LOT of ignorance among the 'young' these days. I hear that attitude not just from my parent's generation but from some of my peers, too. Mainly people who have never been abroad, think that a night out is drinking 10 pints and puking (ok, I love it too!), vote FG/FF/PD, watch too much (American) TV and spend all day talking about mortgages.

Maybe I'll wait for the next generation. And as I'm a Dub, that's only 12 years - boom-boom!

Archeron

Floodzie wrote:

I'm not sure if we'll ever see legalisation of doobie in Ireland for the simple reason that most politicians are very close to their local publicans - to the point that they use rooms in pubs to hold their clinics - and a lot of publicans have a large influence in their community. Although I was as surprised as anyone to see the tobacco ban brought in in pubs. But not surprised at all to see Minister McDowell's 'pizza and a beer' idea of letting restaurants/cafes sell beer quietly shelved.
...

Do you think that matters? Most people who want a smoke will find it somewhere, somehow, so I'd say the publicans have already lost that business and will not ever get it back. Then again, whether or not they realize that may be a different matter entirely. To be honest, a lot of people I know avoid the pubs like the plague already, be they smokers or not, so it wouldnt be a case that this would be any more business lost for the pubs. I agree with the whole cafe bar aspect though, that was a really sad day for the people of Ireland and was certainly a good indicator as to who influences the government.

Floodzie

Archeron wrote:

Do you think that matters? Most people who want a smoke will find it somewhere, somehow, so I'd say the publicans have already lost that business and will not ever get it back. Then again, whether or not they realize that may be a different matter entirely. To be honest, a lot of people I know avoid the pubs like the plague already, be they smokers or not, so it wouldnt be a case that this would be any more business lost for the pubs. I agree with the whole cafe bar aspect though, that was a really sad day for the people of Ireland and was certainly a good indicator as to who influences the government.

I think most people who would be likely to vote for legalization of doobie are unlikely to vote at all!

Unfortunately policy in Ireland is dictated by the ignorant. And the phone-ins.

Most of my toking buddies prefer to go to someone's house for a session, instead of a pub. You can smoke and the booze is cheaper. Although Guinness from a can... Luckily I live across the road from a pub. It was actually a consideration when looking for a gaf!

I wonder if shelving the 'pizza and a beer' thing was a trade-off for the smoking ban?

ScumLord

Someone asked why smoke is illegal and it's kind of a long storey it seems the hole world was set against mister green.

The Americans didn't like it because the illegal Mexican immigrants used it, therefore it must be bad. Americans don't like any drugs anyway.

It also came up against the cotton industry, hemp was an essential product all the way up to WW2, infact the American government encouraged farmers to grow it to help the war effort (then destroyed all the farms and farmers livelihoods after the war). Cotton eventually won out because of the cotton jenny but Cannabis was demonised by the cotton industry.

The Egyptians didn't like it for industrial reasons also. I think their the ones that put the final nail in the coffin by having it tacked on to some sort of anti drugs UN treaty that was designed to stop the trade in opium. No country actually locally made the drug illegal it just got handed down from the UN and unfortunately making cannabis legal would mean breaking international law.

Most countries didn't even realise cannabis was illegal until the 60s and it was popularised by the hippies.

All that information is fairly rough but it's near or near enough.

It should be leagised, the worrywarts don't even have to be afraid of a cafe culture poping up like in Amsterdam because of the smoking ban. What we should have is resturants. Your starter is laced then your stoned for the meal.

I heard on the radio as well that some commision set up by our government has said that prohabition does more harm than good. So maybe that'll be the slap in the face they need to change the laws a bit.

Floodzie

ScumLord wrote:

Someone asked why smoke is illegal and it's kind of a long storey it seems the hole world was set against mister green.

The Americans didn't like it because the illegal Mexican immigrants used it, therefore it must be bad. Americans don't like any drugs anyway.

It also came up against the cotton industry, hemp was an essential product all the way up to WW2, infact the American government encouraged farmers to grow it to help the war effort (then destroyed all the farms and farmers livelihoods after the war). Cotton eventually won out because of the cotton jenny but Cannabis was demonised by the cotton industry.

The Egyptians didn't like it for industrial reasons also. I think their the ones that put the final nail in the coffin by having it tacked on to some sort of anti drugs UN treaty that was designed to stop the trade in opium. No country actually locally made the drug illegal it just got handed down from the UN and unfortunately making cannabis legal would mean breaking international law.

Most countries didn't even realise cannabis was illegal until the 60s and it was popularised by the hippies.

All that information is fairly rough but it's near or near enough.

It should be leagised, the worrywarts don't even have to be afraid of a cafe culture poping up like in Amsterdam because of the smoking ban. What we should have is resturants. Your starter is laced then your stoned for the meal.

I heard on the radio as well that some commision set up by our government has said that prohabition does more harm than good. So maybe that'll be the slap in the face they need to change the laws a bit.

Yep - that's pretty much accurate Scumlord.

Fair play to ya. For listening to the radio, I mean. I stopped about a year ago because of all the ads. Nothing worse when you're high, interrupted by some smug twat selling you broadband or whatever.

Not as bad as Irish TV, though. It's like the TV producers all sit around around and think of the WORST way to bring people down when they're having a great time.

ie: "Ireland playing a really important match and we might win? Right, really realistic car-crash ad with catchy music during half-time! That'll show 'em! Now everyone is as miserable as us!"

But that's another thread.

Right, off home for dinner, a toke and then to plan a really ambitous sandwich for later...

Léan

As much as I'd like smoke to be legalised, i honestly don't think it will ever happen. But, i think it should indefinitely be decriminalised.

It's a real pity Ireland doesn't have a party that supports the decriminalisation of cannabis. Afaik, the Green Party are someday swayed towards the legalization of cannabis, but really, the only parties here with power are Fine Gael and Fine Fail. I dunno. It's a sad situation when people like SWIM are categorized as criminals and thrown in with the likes of violent alcoholics.

Ireland badly needs to be educated on cannabis. Many people seem to have a bad image of cannabis users, they seem to be either thrown in with shady characters or lazy hippies. It's a real shame that more of the younger generation in this country don't vote. It would seem to me that the voting majority of Ireland seem to be over the forty bracket and have a stigma attached to cannabis and it's use. Cannabis has many many medical advantages as some people have gone through already; Cancer, leukaemia, alzhemier's disease, asthma, glaucoma, aggressive disorders, insomnia, depression, migraine, tumours. Cannabis has even been linked to helping people suffering from the AIDS wasting syndrome .I'm sorry but remind me again, have alcohol or cigarettes been linked to helping cure any of these (some even fatal) diseases? No, they have not.

Cannabis promotes pacifism. When was the last time you saw someone after smoking trying to fight someone? I just don't understand the logic that it's actually socially acceptable at this stage for someone to go out at night and get langered falling around the place. It actually worries me to walk down any street in any part of the country on a night during the weekend. I mean, which is the more appealing picture here? I drunken brawl at three in the morning, or in fact any time of the day in the middle of the street. Fist fights and people trying to hold raging alcohol charged people back whilst they try to tear each other to shreds, for reasons they probably can't remember... Or, how about this, a group of people sitting around smoking, relaxing, talking, listening to music, whatever floats your boat. What's the more preferable image here? Maybe it's just me, but i find nothing attractive about drunken brawls. Just look at that case in Dublin a few years ago with the young Brian Murphy who was murdered because of well, a group of lads that drank too much. And yet, this drug, Alcohol is LEGAL??? It baffles me.

Another thing, people seem to forget that alcohol and cigarettes are drugs. They have this notion that because they are legal it suddenly makes them ok. This results in cannabis being unfairly booted in with hardcore drugs like E, coke, acid, etc.... I find this to be completely unjust. Cannabis is a completely different substance to any of those just listed. Cannabis is a plant after all. It comes from the earth, it is not some kind of hybrid of noxious chemicals, venoms and poisons. In fact, cannabis is even sometimes used for getting drug addicts who are addicted and hooked to such substances clean again.

Err, I've kind of gone on a tangent about this, but it's really a matter that's close to my heart. I'm proud to see people trying to work hard for the decriminalisation of cannabis, came across this the other day
http://ccpr-ireland.bebo.com , it gives me hope haha. No really. It does.

Piste

No because it'd be harder for me to get it, I'd be IDed.

Archeron

ScumLord wrote:

It should be leagised, the worrywarts don't even have to be afraid of a cafe culture poping up like in Amsterdam because of the smoking ban. What we should have is resturants. Your starter is laced then your stoned for the meal.

Now that is a wonderful idea.

Although the nations national obesity epidemic might drastically increase. (hash laced triple chocolate nut brownies anyone??) Perhaps we could counter that by waking up the next day and going jogging instead of sitting around dying of a hangover or going for a big fry the way so many drinkers do.

jester77

Archeron wrote:

Now that is a wonderful idea.

Although the nations national obesity epidemic might drastically increase. (hash laced triple chocolate nut brownies anyone??) Perhaps we could counter that by waking up the next day and going jogging instead of sitting around dying of a hangover or going for a big fry the way so many drinkers do.

hmm, could be onto something, instead of chocolate brownies maybe take the healthier route, eg green pea soup as a starter, fish with some mixed herbs and potatoes and leave the desert part out!

ScumLord

Fair play to ya. For listening to the radio,

Jayz scan I don't get to listen to the radio atall these days we don't get such niceties in the office. All I get to listen to is half an hour of Ray Darcy in the morning and an odd bit in the evening when I'm zipping around the countryside.

If anyones looking for a good documentary on smoke, Woody Harrelson (yerman from cheers and natural born killers) did one called grass. The best thing about it is they show all the old black and white adds about the dangers of cannabis, my favourite one is about the guy who makes the bird play the piano faster and faster then jumps out the window.

I'm proud to see people trying to work hard for the decriminalisation of cannabis, came across this the other day

I don't know this is the 3rd or 4th cannabis legalisation group I've come across in Ireland they all usually give up as there's no one listening. I was a member of the Cannabis Ireland Association (CIA) but I think they've disappeared. All they seem to do is go on marches and sure the gov is great at ignoring those kind of events. Ming was the closest thing we had to a proper cannabis activist but I haven't heard anything from him lately.

I'd like to get the anti cannabis side and the pro cannabis side in a pubic debate, advertise it as a debate on the dangers of cannabis to get the right crowd in, there's no point in telling stoners cannabis should be legalised. If the stoners went prepared with actual reports in their hands we could wipe the floor with the anti drugs lobby.

apparently a study was done in Australia that showed potheads were actually BETTER drivers (probably because they don't like to get beyond 2nd gear) than non-stoners...

I hate driving stoned. Normally love driving and would be very confident behind the wheel (read kinda fast) but when I'm stoned I lose all confidence in my ability to drive and slow down allot, I don't ever lose concentration but I guess the end result is that I'd look like a better driver due to driving much slower.

Terry

It's illegal because it's harmful.
Hardly rocket science, is it?

Also, how many of you actually need it for medicinal purposes?
if you are not using it for medicinal purposes, then you are abusing it. end of story.

as for other drugs, The easiest way forward is for global economic sactions against the countries which produce them.
SSRI's and other mental health drugs, please don't pretend you know about them until you have actually taken them.