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ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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    #2462
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    inhaler16 wrote: »
    True but there could already be legislation on EU books that was not used due to opening a can of worms against another EU member ? or was never brought to the EC/ECHR.


    What do you mean? I'm not sure yo know how the EU works.


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    #2463
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    recedite wrote: »
    In example (1) What does the UN refugee program know about somebody who arrives onto a Greek island with no passport? How can they possibly be vetted when the staff don't even know their real names? Let alone anything about their past. Was this guy adequately vetted before he arrived in Germany?

    In your example (2) here, this is the typical scenario for Africans, not for Syrians.


    A fight between allies does not constitute a war.
    During WW2 numerous fights broke out between American GI's and British or Australian troops, but only when these troops found themselves thrown together far from the actual fighting. So this kind of fighting is a sure sign that the war is over, or else is very far away.

    Update on war in Syria:
    Syrian and Russian Army have started a major assault in Idlib Provence. Major humanitarian crisis unfolding. UN urges halt to the fighting, but Russia veto's the vote. So it's still far from finished.


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    #2464
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,332 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    They reckon at this stage about 2500 fighters have returned to Europe.

    1000 alone to Tunisia.

    That is a lot of militarily experienced and motivated men.


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    #2465
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    jmreire wrote: »
    Update on war in Syria:
    Syrian and Russian Army have started a major assault in Idlib Provence. Major humanitarian crisis unfolding. UN urges halt to the fighting, but Russia veto's the vote. So it's still far from finished.
    I know all about Idlib and its threat to Ireland. See this post.


    Following their defeat, all the IS fighters and their brides were concentrated into two main enclaves.
    Shamima Begum and the Irishwoman were in the enclave to the east, where the the Kurds and US forces finally took control recently, and are now stuck with them.


    Meanwhile the Syrian national army and Russian forces were herding them from their side towards Idlib in the north. But I doubt there will be any camps set up there to hold them. The survivors will have 3 choices; die, reintegrate into Syrian society, or flee to Turkey. Most will take the third option.



    There is no co-operation between the Syrians/Russians and the Kurds/Americans, but both were against IS. There is tension, but special separation protocols and good communications prevent hostilities between them. its a bit like when the Russians and Americans both reached Berlin in 1945 - a tense moment, followed by a cold war.


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    #2466
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    recedite wrote: »
    I know all about Idlib and its threat to Ireland. See this post.


    Following their defeat, all the IS fighters and their brides were concentrated into two main enclaves.
    Shamima Begum and the Irishwoman were in the enclave to the east, where the the Kurds and US forces finally took control recently, and are now stuck with them.


    Meanwhile the Syrian national army and Russian forces were herding them from their side towards Idlib in the north. But I doubt there will be any camps set up there to hold them. The survivors will have 3 choices; die, reintegrate into Syrian society, or flee to Turkey. Most will take the third option.



    There is no co-operation between the Syrians/Russians and the Kurds/Americans, but both were against IS. There is tension, but special separation protocols and good communications prevent hostilities between them. its a bit like when the Russians and Americans both reached Berlin in 1945 - a tense moment, followed by a cold war.

    Assad and the Russians are hand in glove together...Russia wants to keep it's bases in the mediterraean, and Assad need's Russian support. And America was ( and most likely ) still supporting the Kurds.Trump made a big fanfare about pulling out of Syria, claiming that isis was defeated, and the American's were not needed any longer. But he later rowed back on that, so most likely, the US is still there too. After the fall of Baghus, all of the former "Enemy's of Assad " were shepherded into Idlib, and it's now the last bastion of opposition to Assad. There are currently 3 million people in Idlib, and in the last two weeks, 12 hospital's have been bombed. Turkey is a major player now in this part of Syria,and is seen to be cordinating with Russia re lines of control, and consolidation of territory they expect to control. For Idlib, it's looking worse and worse....all the promises and agreement's given to the Rebels ect. to get them to leave quietly the positions else where in Syria they formerly occupied, are now blowing in the wind. Britain has given a red-line ultimatum NO Chemical Weapons..or we will reapond. Seems like I heard that one before though.And so the War still goes on.


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    #2467
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,332 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    One man's Northern Syria is another's Southern Turkey.

    Specially when you are an autocratic leader in Istanbul.


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    #2468
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    jmreire wrote: »
    Assad and the Russians are hand in glove together...Russia wants to keep it's bases in the mediterraean, and Assad need's Russian support.
    Course they are. And there will be big reconstruction contracts, which the yanks would have liked to have, but the Russians will get. And probably a gas pipeline to the Mediterranean, which the Gulf States would have liked, but Iran will get.
    Those are the stakes for the outsiders- the attempted regime change has failed.
    Idlib is the last festering boil for Syria now. Its not so much a war as a squeezing of the boil.


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    #2469
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    recedite wrote: »
    Course they are. And there will be big reconstruction contracts, which the yanks would have liked to have, but the Russians will get. And probably a gas pipeline to the Mediterranean, which the Gulf States would have liked, but Iran will get.
    Those are the stakes for the outsiders- the attempted regime change has failed.
    Idlib is the last festering boil for Syria now. Its not so much a war as a squeezing of the boil.[/QUOTE.

    Syria Reconstruction Costs.
    The UN's Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia estimated the costs of Syria's reconstruction at $388 billion. As neither the Assad regime, nor its backers Russia and Iran, have the needed resources - and China's support won't be enough, the reconstruction of Syria should be divided into areas of responsibility between Turkey, the United States and the regime axis.

    So it will be a case of he who pays the piper call's the tune....
    Bearing in mind, that Idlib region has a large Turkmen population, who over the years have been persecuted by Assad, and as a result were active in the revolution against Assad, and in this, they were very much supported by Turkey. So will be interesting to see how this plays out,,,there are 12 Turkish observation posts ringing idlib, monitoring the agreement that allowed fighter's from other part's of Syria to relocate to Idlib....where they were suposed to be safe.And will be very interesting to see how deep into Syria Turkey will go, or what will happen when the Russian/ Syrian forces meet the Turk's.....Something tell's me that this story is far from over, and wont be over for a long time yet..even after Idlib is sorted..if it will be sorted.


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    #2470
    Tea drinker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Tea drinker


    recedite wrote: »
    Course they are. And there will be big reconstruction contracts, which the yanks would have liked to have, but the Russians will get. And probably a gas pipeline to the Mediterranean, which the Gulf States would have liked, but Iran will get.
    Those are the stakes for the outsiders- the attempted regime change has failed.
    Idlib is the last festering boil for Syria now. Its not so much a war as a squeezing of the boil.
    To my knowledge the EU has witheld aid to Syria as the Syrian people are not worthy of aid because Assad din't go or some reason.
    You know, real humane people who aren't at all biased and just want to alleviate suffering they in part caused. If they had helped reconstruct in Gov held areas (apart from the destruct) the EU might have got some contracts


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    #2471
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    jmreire wrote: »
    Syria Reconstruction Costs.
    The UN's Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia estimated the costs of Syria's reconstruction at $388 billion. As neither the Assad regime, nor its backers Russia and Iran, have the needed resources - and China's support won't be enough, the reconstruction of Syria should be divided into areas of responsibility between Turkey, the United States and the regime axis. So it will be a case of he who pays the piper call's the tune....
    That's an estimate, but it doesn't mean anyone is going to pay it.
    The reconstruction of Syria is not the "responsibility" of any other country. That's not how it works. China may loan money, but they will want it back, with interest. Iran may reconstruct the oil and gas wells, especially if they can use that in some way to get around their own sanctions. Russian companies will also go in and get contracts. But ultimately Syria will be paying for most of it, one way or the other.

    The EU may end up donating some money as well, just as we donate to reconstruct Gaza every time the Israelis destroy it. But commercial EU and US companies will be left out in the cold.


    the agreement that allowed fighter's from other part's of Syria to relocate to Idlib....where they were supposed to be safe. And will be very interesting to see how deep into Syria Turkey will go, or what will happen when the Russian/ Syrian forces meet the Turk's.....
    There was an agreement for "safe passage" to rebel held area of Idlib. I don't think anyone said they would be safe there forever. It was up to them to decide what to do once they got there. The obvious thing (which they can still do now) was to keep on moving, into Turkey. As long as they don't come to Ireland, I don't really care. If Assad had said they were safe there forever, he would effectively have been giving up Syrian sovereignty for that part of Syria. He has never done that for any of the war-torn regions, including the part now occupied by Kurds and US special forces.


    With the IS jihadis defeated, the remaining 3 major powers will sort things out by diplomacy. The Turks will probably end up holding a small piece of Syrian territory permanently. The Kurds will also want a piece, but this is trickier because both the Syrians and the Turks oppose it.
    The Russians will not fight the Turks, or the Kurds either while they have US special forces embedded. Which means Assad won't either.


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    #2472
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    recedite wrote: »
    That's an estimate, but it doesn't mean anyone is going to pay it.
    The reconstruction of Syria is not the "responsibility" of any other country. That's not how it works. China may loan money, but they will want it back, with interest. Iran may reconstruct the oil and gas wells, especially if they can use that in some way to get around their own sanctions. Russian companies will also go in and get contracts. But ultimately Syria will be paying for most of it, one way or the other.

    The EU may end up donating some money as well, just as we donate to reconstruct Gaza every time the Israelis destroy it. But commercial EU and US companies will be left out in the cold.



    There was an agreement for "safe passage" to rebel held area of Idlib. I don't think anyone said they would be safe there forever. It was up to them to decide what to do once they got there. The obvious thing (which they can still do now) was to keep on moving, into Turkey. As long as they don't come to Ireland, I don't really care. If Assad had said they were safe there forever, he would effectively have been giving up Syrian sovereignty for that part of Syria. He has never done that for any of the war-torn regions, including the part now occupied by Kurds and US special forces.


    With the IS jihadis defeated, the remaining 3 major powers will sort things out by diplomacy. The Turks will probably end up holding a small piece of Syrian territory permanently. The Kurds will also want a piece, but this is trickier because both the Syrians and the Turks oppose it.
    The Russians will not fight the Turks, or the Kurds either while they have US special forces embedded. Which means Assad won't either.


    At the end of the day, it will be sorted by the 3 major power's as you say....But as to Turkey's involvement and how far that will go...lets just say that Erdogan could play the Putin card, and ride in to the rescue of the Turkman population, as fellow Turkish Citizens? That's not an impossible scenario, and as Putin would say " It Works !!! ( and no one know's better !! ) Will be interesting to see how that plays out in the end.... Despite Assad's statement to the effect that he wants Syria back,,,, every inch of it !!! Personally, I think that he is being a little bit over optimistic with thatstatement....The Map of Syria has been altered, and perhaps permanently.
    At the moment, they are gearing up for a full scale assault on Idleb, same methodolgy as in past rebel /isis held citys,,, Russians and Assad aircraft are bombing the outer region's in Idlib provence. How that will fit in with your assessment remains to be seen.
    Yes the UN reconstruction cost's are only figure's at the moment, and in reality... they will increase. But I am far from convinced by your argument as to who will pay, especially if as you maintain the EU and the US will be left out in the cold ( except that Assad will pay one way or another, down the road. ) We will see in time.


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    #2473
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    There have been lots of talks between Erdogan and Putin in the last few months, so you can be sure Erdogan has given the green light to the current operation in Idlib.
    Remember that time a Russian plane was shot down near the Turkish border? The Turkmen were the savages that machine-gunned the pilot as he was coming down in his parachute.


    Whats the ideal new leader in a country like that? Maybe a fairly secular guy (not too religious) and preferably western educated, maybe with a medical degree. That's Assad!
    Sure, he can be heavy handed at times, but that's what it takes to govern in that part of the world.


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    #2474
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,332 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    recedite wrote: »
    There have been lots of talks between Erdogan and Putin in the last few months, so you can be sure Erdogan has given the green light to the current operation in Idlib.
    Remember that time a Russian plane was shot down near the Turkish border? The Turkmen were the savages that machine-gunned the pilot as he was coming down in his parachute.


    Whats the ideal new leader in a country like that? Maybe a fairly secular guy (not too religious) and preferably western educated, maybe with a medical degree. That's Assad!
    Sure, he can be heavy handed at times, but that's what it takes to govern in that part of the world.

    Assad has only one redeeming feature, he is miles better than his opponents.


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    #2475
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Tea drinker wrote: »
    To my knowledge the EU has witheld aid to Syria as the Syrian people are not worthy of aid because Assad din't go or some reason.
    You know, real humane people who aren't at all biased and just want to alleviate suffering they in part caused. If they had helped reconstruct in Gov held areas (apart from the destruct) the EU might have got some contracts

    Yes, with Assad in power, it has hindered aid to Syria, but not cut it off completely The EU has funded a lot of the aid programs in Syria. The ICRC in partnership with SARC ( Syrian Red Crescent ) have funded and implemented millions of € worth of aid, all from world wide donors. It is what is keeping the Country going at the moment.


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    #2476
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    jmreire wrote: »
    The EU has funded a lot of the aid programs in Syria.
    Nitpick .... they are not in Syria. They are in the countries around Syria, where refugee camps were established. These countries have also spent a lot of their own money on them.
    The Turkish refugee camps in particular are excellent, with decent prefabs to live in, shops, proper sanitation, bin collections street lighting etc..
    https://ec.europa.eu/trustfund-syria-region/sites/tfsr/files/factsheet-eutf-syria-english.pdf


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    #2477
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    recedite wrote: »
    Nitpick .... they are not in Syria. They are in the countries around Syria, where refugee camps were established. These countries have also spent a lot of their own money on them.
    The Turkish refugee camps in particular are excellent, with decent prefabs to live in, shops, proper sanitation, bin collections street lighting etc..
    https://ec.europa.eu/trustfund-syria-region/sites/tfsr/files/factsheet-eutf-syria-english.pdf

    Yes I know about the camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. And you are right,they are by now very organised and well run. In one sense, the Syrians in these camps are lucky ( you have to take "Lucky" in this sense with a grain of salt...but at least there is no bombing and shooting, they have roof's over their head's etc)
    Sorry to disagree with you on Syria, but they ARE in Syria too..Aleppo, Homs, Al-Hassakeh, Tartous, Latakia, Al-Sweida, Raqqa, and last but not least in Damascus.
    Aside from the 5 camps in Hassakeh, there are not too many organised camps in the rest of Syria, and very few that would be as well organised as the Turkish one's. Most of the war affected in Syria they are living in patched up bombed out buildings, and make shift Hospitals. But they ARE being helped with AID, which is paid for by the international community, inc. the EU. Gradually, since the fighting in the major towns and City's has stopped...Life has started to return to normal...or at least is getting better for the people living there.


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    #2478
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    UNRWA has been funding Palestinian refugee camps in Damascus since long before the Syrian war.
    Hassakeh is in Syria, but its in the part controlled by US/Kurdish forces.
    EU and US funding also went to the "white helmets" who were involved in relief work, but only in rebel held areas.
    What money has the EU or the US donated for humanitarian work in Syria, for Syrians? (not including the helping of rebels)


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    #2479
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    jmreire wrote: »
    Yes I know about the camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. And you are right,they are by now very organised and well run. In one sense, the Syrians in these camps are lucky ( you have to take "Lucky" in this sense with a grain of salt...but at least there is no bombing and shooting, they have roof's over their head's etc)
    Sorry to disagree with you on Syria, but they ARE in Syria too..Aleppo, Homs, Al-Hassakeh, Tartous, Latakia, Al-Sweida, Raqqa, and last but not least in Damascus.
    Aside from the 5 camps in Hassakeh, there are not too many organised camps in the rest of Syria, and very few that would be as well organised as the Turkish one's. Most of the war affected in Syria they are living in patched up bombed out buildings, and make shift Hospitals. But they ARE being helped with AID, which is paid for by the international community, inc. the EU. Gradually, since the fighting in the major towns and City's has stopped...Life has started to return to normal...or at least is getting better for the people living there.
    recedite wrote: »
    UNRWA has been funding Palestinian refugee camps in Damascus since long before the Syrian war.
    Hassakeh is in Syria, but its in the part controlled by US/Kurdish forces.
    EU and US funding also went to the "white helmets" who were involved in relief work, but only in rebel held areas.
    What money has the EU or the US donated for humanitarian work in Syria, for Syrians? (not including the helping of rebels)

    Yes, I know where Hassakeh is, and also about the many Palestinians living in Syria. The ICRC has been working all over Syria, since the beginning and they have been funded by amongst other's, the EU and the US, to the tune of many millions, each year. The ICRC make yearly appeals for funding in general, but also Country / Catastrophe specific appeals. Syria has figured heavily in this,since the beginning in 2011. But there are other humanitarian aid organizations there as well, and of course they are all funded ( they have to be, otherwise they could not work ) So yes, there is international aid at work in Syria.Not always enough of course, but still enough to make a difference.


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    #2480
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    jmreire wrote: »
    Yes, I know where Hassakeh is...
    ...So yes, there is international aid at work in Syria.
    Well, I'm just pointing out how your statement above, and also that shown below can both be true in some sense, even though they might seem to be contradictory.
    Tea drinker wrote: »
    To my knowledge the EU has withheld aid to Syria as the Syrian people are not worthy of aid because Assad din't go or some reason.
    You know, real humane people who aren't at all biased and just want to alleviate suffering they in part caused. If they had helped reconstruct in Gov held areas (apart from the destruct) the EU might have got some contracts
    It would certainly be a lot cheaper for the EU to provide aid for housing for Syrians in Syria, than to house and feed them in Europe.


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    #2481
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    recedite wrote: »
    Well, I'm just pointing out how your statement above, and also that shown below can both be true in some sense, even though they might seem to be contradictory.
    Quote:-Originally Posted by Tea drinker View Post

    To my knowledge the EU has withheld aid to Syria as the Syrian people are not worthy of aid because Assad din't go or some reason.
    You know, real humane people who aren't at all biased and just want to alleviate suffering they in part caused. If they had helped reconstruct in Gov held areas (apart from the destruct) the EU might have got some contracts Unquote


    The EU and all the major donors for humanitarian activities never withheld any aid from Syria...the problem was then and is now, a question of access. Before the major gains for Assad, and Syria was a patchwork of different faction's, the humanitarian organizations operated a system of "Global Syria", which meant that they would have access to all of Syria, to deliver aid, regardless of who controlled it. This obviously did not go down too well with Assad,,,,and he blocked it every way he could. But there was a UN security council vote that allowed aid to get to rebel held area's via the external borders.And this is how aid got through.So if any aid was blocked, it was blocked by Assad, and not by the EU or other donors. Basically, if you were loyal to Assad, no problem to get aid through...however on the other hand...if you were in the opposition / rebel area's...not so easy. Now of course.. Idlib is the last major opposition held area, and Assad is tightening the noose. In the last few days, at least 16 Humanitarian organisations inc. WFP have left, citing security concerns. ( very believable ) So Humanitarian Aid will most likely be suspended again. But this is like before, not by any EU /UN action, but entirely by circumstances outside their control. I hope that this explains it a bit better for you.


    It would certainly be a lot cheaper for the EU to provide aid for housing for Syrians in Syria, than to house and feed them in Europe.


    In terms of displaced Syrians, the EU actually has the smallest Nr, but google it and you will see the figure's yourself. Turkey, I think is first, followed by Jordan and Lebanon. Your idea in principle is a very good one,,, basically provide a solution at source. And hopefully it can be implemented in the not too distant future. But realistically, as the situation is now, It's not possible IMHO. Most of the Syrian City's are more than 50%+ destroyed....just literally bundles and heaps of rubble... no running water,,,or regular electricity supplies, and security is not guaranteed.There will have to be major reconstruction done before Syria starts to become habitable again. Regarding contracts and rebuilding...I'm pretty sure that discussions are well underway ( and have been for a long time, ) as people look to the future. But as to who will get what, contract wise... will largely depend on who will be prepared to pay the most.....It's a simple question, but no simple answers...there are simply too many forces and vested interest's at work...Will be very interesting to see how it plays out. But for sure, the Syrian people deserve peace and an end to their suffering.


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    #2482
    DelaneyIn
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn


    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/isis-bride-lisa-smith-will-16163434.amp#click=https://t.co/9XJhxeocCl

    Interesting that you can join ISIS, return to your country and face literally no punishment.

    What a country we live in.

    Let that sink in. She literally went to join the most infamous terrorist organisation in recent history and she’s coming back to Ireland to suffer no consequences for this.

    She’d have us all beheaded if her and her friends had their way. We’re welcoming her back, no doubt she’ll be getting welfare too.


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    #2483
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    DelaneyIn wrote: »
    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/isis-bride-lisa-smith-will-16163434.amp#click=https://t.co/9XJhxeocCl

    Interesting that you can join ISIS, return to your country and face literally no punishment.

    What a country we live in.

    Let that sink in. She literally went to join the most infamous terrorist organisation in recent history and she’s coming back to Ireland to suffer no consequences for this.

    She’d have us all beheaded if her and her friends had their way. We’re welcoming her back, no doubt she’ll be getting welfare too.

    She has broken no Irish Laws.....because unlike other EU Country's, we don't have any laws against going abroad to another Country, and fighting there, even with terrorists whose stated aim is as you said, not only the the destruction of western society, but all Muslim's too, who don't follow their version of Islam.


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    #2484
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    DelaneyIn wrote: »
    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/isis-bride-lisa-smith-will-16163434.amp#click=https://t.co/9XJhxeocCl

    Interesting that you can join ISIS, return to your country and face literally no punishment.

    What a country we live in.

    Let that sink in. She literally went to join the most infamous terrorist organisation in recent history and she’s coming back to Ireland to suffer no consequences for this.

    She’d have us all beheaded if her and her friends had their way. We’re welcoming her back, no doubt she’ll be getting welfare too.

    I see the irish mirror journalists have caught up to where this thread was 2 months ago.


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    #2485
    King of Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    I see john walker lindh has been released after 17 years of his 20years.

    Staying in US will be hard for him but dont worry he has Irish citizenship too. :(
    Guess where he'll be moving so once his parole is up.

    Those of you not as old as me - he was an american who was captured fighting to taliban/al queda in 2001.


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    #2486
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    King of Kings wrote: »
    I see john walker lindh has been released after 17 years of his 20years.

    Staying in US will be hard for him but dont worry he has Irish citizenship too. :(
    Guess where he'll be moving so once his parole is up.

    Those of you not as old as me - he was an american who was captured fighting to taliban/al queda in 2001.

    He was one of many taliban captured, and held in a prison in Mazar Sharif. Many of them were killed because they were kept locked up in 40" steel shipping containers, out in the Afghan sun. Some of them (Inc Lindt) managed to get their hands on some weapons, and tried to break out because they feared the same fate. During this breakout, and American officer was killed, and this is what Lindt was charged with. Yes he has been released, despite the fact that Donald was pushing for him to serve the full sentence. Pompeo is angry that he has been released, describing it as " Deeply troubling and wrong" Seems that he is not only not repentant about his taliban activities, but has actually moved from taliban to isis. Spent his time in prison translating texts and writing's from English to Arabic and Urdu.This guy was and is " The Real Deal". He is still 100% isis / talib. The problem now for the Americans is how to re-integrate him ( and many more like him) back into society. He will lead a very restricted and monitored life...no internet access, limited travel etc. So maybe he will play the Irish card..would make sense for him... because like Lisa, there is no crime he can be charged with here. I would be prepared to take a chance with Lisa.....but not him.I hope that the Americans decide to keep him there.


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    #2487
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,136 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    I haven't been in this thread in ages and just popped in. I'm impressed, it's a very civil conversation going on about a controversial subject


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    #2488
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    jmreire wrote: »
    ... because like Lisa, there is no crime he can be charged with here. I would be prepared to take a chance with Lisa.....but not him. I hope that the Americans decide to keep him there.
    His probation lasts 3 years apparently. After that he can go where he likes.
    And they'll probably be glad to see the back of him, if he decides to head over here.
    A Bureau of Prisons spokesperson confirmed to the Guardian that Lindh had been released early due to “good conduct” but would not elaborate on the conditions of his parole.
    Reports have indicated Lindh will be subject to a number of strict conditions during his three-year probation. He will be banned from possessing any “internet capable device” without permission and will be subject to constant monitoring. He will not be allowed to communicate in any language other than English and will be prevented from viewing any “material that reflects extremist or terroristic views”


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    #2489
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    recedite wrote: »
    His probation lasts 3 years apparently. After that he can go where he likes.
    And they'll probably be glad to see the back of him, if he decides to head over here.

    I think that when the Americans say "close surveillance" they mean it. So I'm optimistic that we will not see him for at least 3 year's parole term. And maybe not even after that either. As far as I know, he has not personally had any connection with Ireland,,the link is through his Grandmother. So maybe Ireland is not even in his plans?? But even after the 3 years are finished,unless he completely gives up all connection's with radical Islam, he will remain on a watch list, either official or unofficial. He is a marked man, no matter what he will do.


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    #2490
    DelaneyIn
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn


    Why did we give him citizenship then? Our laws seem to be very generous. Why are we taking other country’s lunatics as citizens?


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    #2491
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭jmreire


    DelaneyIn wrote: »
    Why did we give him citizenship then? Our laws seem to be very generous. Why are we taking other country’s lunatics as citizens?

    It's not a question of giving citizenship to anyone...it's a question of entitlement. Lindt qualifies due to the fact that at least one of his Grand Parents was Irish, in his case, it is his Grandmother. So like it or not...he is as Irish as you or me.
    In the case of people being granted citizenship ( asylum seeker's etc ) That's a different case, and they are supposed to be vetted etc. but for sure, the odd one or two"Lunatics" as you call them, will always slip through.


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