Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

H3llR4iser · 21-02-2020 3:20pm

pjohnson wrote: »

All Merc would need to do is have a base/default position for whenever Hamilton/Bottas are turning off the car. If they have a constant base setting to use during parc ferme then the measurements would always match?

That's the whole point - it can't be measured with the car in motion, but it's patently clear from the footage that the setting is changing on-the-fly.

Joeface wrote: »

I am curious to know this adjustment will actually work in Race conditions . It's a neat addition to the Tech in the car . but how does the car handle when your doing a steering adjustment for the straight , then going defensive into the turn "if" someone can get close enough , and your doing that adjustment to steering positions and also turning defensively . It's a lot of adjust ments under persure and surely it will change how the car feels at a given time .

Not very difficult I'd say, it's a matter of pulling on the wheel coming out of a corner and pushing in going in. Probably only makes sense on longer straights (e.g. in Barcelona, the pit straight and the one between turns 9-10.

Frank Bullitt · 21-02-2020 6:02pm

So, I am clearly a bit more obsessed with this than others, but Racing Point are hilarious this year.

Here are comparisons from last years Merc...enjoy.

Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-ed1cc280-1671939.jpg

Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-ed1cc280-1671939.jpg

Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-17a355bc-1671942.jpg

Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-e5d782ac-1671944.jpg

Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-c18d01ea-1671949.jpg

Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-fd61a583-1671937.jpg

Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-e9821e25-1671951.jpg

Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-ab1b2ea3-1671932.jpg

Inviere · 21-02-2020 6:17pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Paradoxically, I have a feeling it might be what prompted the creation of the system - the "oh wait, this is not in this year's rules" moment.

Very possible. It also could be the case that Merc were speaking to the FIA about the system (they have claimed to have been speaking to the FIA about it for quite a while), and that's what prompted the 2021 ban. It definitely sounds like the closure of a loophole. We'll prob never know for sure.

skipper_G · 21-02-2020 6:26pm

Gintonious wrote: »

So, I am clearly a bit more obsessed with this than others, but Racing Point are hilarious this year.

Here are comparisons from last years Merc...enjoy.

I for one am happy that Racing Point potentially have a decent package to start the season with. Thought Andrew Green explained the logic very well

https://streamable.com/br8h3

H3llR4iser · 21-02-2020 7:59pm

skipper_G wrote: »

I for one am happy that Racing Point potentially have a decent package to start the season with. Thought Andrew Green explained the logic very well

https://streamable.com/br8h3

Face like an arse - this is the same team who admitted taking "team orders" from Mercedes. No transfer of knowledge me arse - too many details are the same. That car IS a W10 with a different paintjob.

If there ever was a more valid car for letting teams sell customer cars, this is it: they're going to do it anyway...

skipper_G · 21-02-2020 9:15pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Face like an arse - this is the same team who admitted taking "team orders" from Mercedes. No transfer of knowledge me arse - too many details are the same. That car IS a W10 with a different paintjob.

If there ever was a more valid car for letting teams sell customer cars, this is it: they're going to do it anyway...

You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I completely disagree and think the team are within the rules. If they're not then I assume they'll be investigated and punished accordingly. Anyway, there's no guarantee the risk will pay off, we need to wait and see how the competitive order stacks up in Melbourne.

Also, what team orders are you referring to? Lost me on that one

SureYWouldntYa · 21-02-2020 9:16pm

Stupid question time

Can drivers swap cars? Say Hamiltons Merc craps the bed on the formation lap, can he then just jump into Bottas'? Say for instance if he was in a close title race late in the season and Bottas wasn't

Mitch Connor · 21-02-2020 9:19pm

skipper_G wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I completely disagree and think the team are within the rules. If they're not then I assume they'll be investigated and punished accordingly. Anyway, there's no guarantee the risk will pay off, we need to wait and see how the competitive order stacks up in Melbourne.

Also, what team orders are you referring to? Lost me on that one

He's talking about the Racing Point car being a copy of the Merc, not the Merc steering system.

skipper_G · 21-02-2020 9:21pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He's talking about the Racing Point car being a copy of the Merc, not the Merc steering system.

I know, I wasn't talking about the steering system on the Merc either

vectra · 21-02-2020 9:31pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Face like an arse - this is the same team who admitted taking "team orders" from Mercedes. No transfer of knowledge me arse - too many details are the same. That car IS a W10 with a different paintjob.

If there ever was a more valid car for letting teams sell customer cars, this is it: they're going to do it anyway...

skipper_G wrote: »

Also, what team orders are you referring to? Lost me on that one

I would also like to know.

Frank Bullitt · 21-02-2020 10:14pm

“Looking at the delta pace and eventually what we may assess in terms of fuel load, which you never know in terms of engine modes, etc – looking at the picture relative to ourselves, I think we are not as fast as they are,” Binotto told reporters at a media session in Barcelona.

“I’m not as optimistic as last year. The others are faster than us at the moment I believe.

“How much faster I think it’s really difficult to judge.

“We will go through all the data in the next days. But I don’t think we are as fast as them at the moment.

“Do we have any concerns? Certainly yes, when you are not as fast as you would like to be. But I think it’s really too early stage to define them and to understand.

“So these three days for us have been very important because at least we have collected all the data now to have a clear picture and better understanding. What will be even more important is to make sure that we are developing the car in the right direction.

“Having said that, it’s a very long season, 22 races potentially, so I think there will be time as well to recover eventually.

“But let’s wait for next week and let’s wait for Australia before to assess what’s the true performance of everybody.”

Already a bit gloomy from Ferrari.

H3llR4iser · 21-02-2020 10:22pm

double post

Peanut Butter Jelly · 21-02-2020 10:23pm

Quizzed about whether team orders were in effect, Ocon said: “I’m a Mercedes driver, you should ask the boss.

Asked if there was an ‘unwritten rule’ that Mercedes-powered Force India were not to make things difficult for the Silver Arrows, Ocon answered: “Maybe.”

Belgian newspaper La Dernière Heure then got confirmation from Mercedes boss Toto Wolff that Ocon had been ordered to move aside.

“Yes, because that’s the way it is,” Wolff simply said.

Source

H3llR4iser · 21-02-2020 10:31pm

vectra wrote: »

I would also like to know.

Couple of situations in 2018 they let Mercedes pass for position (usually as a result of differing strategies) with admission from both parties it was "team orders". Usually involving Ocon.

As for the car - guys, they are carbon copies; I know people in here love Racing Point for their Jordan roots, but the team ain't Jordan anymore. Let's be honest - an hard drive with the CATIA/Solidworks/whatever files made its way to them at some point last year. Even tiny details are identical to the square millimeter.

It doesn't mean it's going to perform the same - team expertise and budget are massive differentiators, we see this in lower formulae and Indycar where, even with everyone having the same materials, the bigger/richer/more organized teams almost always find their way to the front. But it IS a slap in the face of all other midfield teams who more or less develop their own cars. They can claim "convergent designs" all they want.

mickdw · 21-02-2020 10:36pm

What are the lap times like versus last year?
It's all well and good turning up with a 1 year old mercedes design but would mercedes be anywhere near the front today if they arrived with the car they were using early last year?

recyclebin · 21-02-2020 10:42pm

They are using the 2019 Mercedes gearbox so makes sense for them to use the 2019 Mercedes chassis too :P

Itssoeasy · 21-02-2020 10:47pm

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Stupid question time

Can drivers swap cars? Say Hamiltons Merc craps the bed on the formation lap, can he then just jump into Bottas'? Say for instance if he was in a close title race late in the season and Bottas wasn't

Years ago teams had three cars at a race weekend and one was a spare which was set up for one of the two drivers. Nowadays I honestly don't know. I don't know if there's a rule prohibiting it from happening but I can't see your example ever happening.

GarIT · 21-02-2020 10:57pm

The driver which starts qualifying in the car is the only driver that can complete the race in that car. There was a situation around 2018 where one driver was injured during qualifying and Williams (I think) weren't allowed to run another driver as Massa had participated in Q1 so they just had one car in the race.

AMKC · 21-02-2020 10:58pm

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Stupid question time

Can drivers swap cars? Say Hamiltons Merc craps the bed on the formation lap, can he then just jump into Bottas'? Say for instance if he was in a close title race late in the season and Bottas wasn't

As far as I know they can't and even if they were allowed they might not fit in their team mates car or like the way their teammates car is setup.

skipper_G · 21-02-2020 11:34pm

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

Source

Here’s an article from a different source about the same race saying something different

https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/29/no-special-favours-to-help-hamilton-and-mercedes-say-force-india/

mickdw · 21-02-2020 11:39pm

Before quali they can. Di resta stepped in a half hour before quali not so long ago.
The cars can be setup to suit other driver in a short time.

Charlie-Bravo · 21-02-2020 11:40pm

How are people pronouncing Alpha Tauri... I thought it was Alpha 'Tour-ree' but I hear some media outlets saying Alpha Tower-ree. My Italian is non-existent btw!

skipper_G · 21-02-2020 11:46pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Couple of situations in 2018 they let Mercedes pass for position (usually as a result of differing strategies) with admission from both parties it was "team orders". Usually involving Ocon.

As for the car - guys, they are carbon copies; I know people in here love Racing Point for their Jordan roots, but the team ain't Jordan anymore. Let's be honest - an hard drive with the CATIA/Solidworks/whatever files made its way to them at some point last year. Even tiny details are identical to the square millimeter.

It doesn't mean it's going to perform the same - team expertise and budget are massive differentiators, we see this in lower formulae and Indycar where, even with everyone having the same materials, the bigger/richer/more organized teams almost always find their way to the front. But it IS a slap in the face of all other midfield teams who more or less develop their own cars. They can claim "convergent designs" all they want.

You're suggesting that they have contravened the regulations yes? I await the findings of the governing body and subsequent punishment. Or more likely, you're wrong, and I await nothing much at all.

Out of interest how is it you can accurately determine similarities between two different cars to the level of millimetres from some pictures? I thought that was impossible...

AMKC · 22-02-2020 12:57am

astrofluff wrote: »

How are people pronouncing Alpha Tauri... I thought it was Alpha 'Tour-ree' but I hear some media outlets saying Alpha Tower-ree. My Italian is non-existent btw!

I think it is Alpha Taa-ree but I could be wrong. That's how I heard ten pronounce it on Sky anyway.

Itssoeasy · 22-02-2020 12:46pm

I have to say if just for this season I hope that imola is successful and gets back on the calendar as a replacement for China which has been postponed. Hopefully the coronavirus is under control by next year but this year it looks bad.

AMKC · 22-02-2020 1:00pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I have to say if just for this season I hope that imola is successful and gets back on the calendar as a replacement for China which has been postponed. Hopefully the coronavirus is under control by next year but this year it looks bad.

So is Imola on then?

Its called Covid-19 now. I agree hopefully by next year they have Covid-19 under control.

Harika · 22-02-2020 3:24pm

AMKC wrote: »

So is Imola on then?

Its called Covid-19 now. I agree hopefully by next year they have Covid-19 under control.

It's a pipedream, cannot see FIA drafting a new race in, while still unclear how to squeeze China in later this year. I would not bet that they actually will.

Cork Trucker · 22-02-2020 3:27pm

Harika wrote: »

It's a pipedream, cannot see FIA drafting a new race in, while still unclear how to squeeze China in later this year. I would not bet that they actually will.

Only time to do it is during the summer break in August?

SureYWouldntYa · 22-02-2020 3:46pm

AMKC wrote: »

I think it is Alpha Taa-ree but I could be wrong. That's how I heard ten pronounce it on Sky anyway.

Will Buxton on the F1 Youtube channel says it's Taw-ree, not Tau-ree as he says about 18 mins into the Paddock Pass video posted last night

Itssoeasy · 22-02-2020 4:09pm

AMKC wrote: »

So is Imola on then?

Its called Covid-19 now. I agree hopefully by next year they have Covid-19 under control.

Well no not yet but the owners of the track have applied to replace China for this year. I mean a couple of years ago it was supposed to be back but monza sorted out a deal(which I'm happy about btw) and the track is certified to hold an F1 race so why not ?

Charlie-Bravo · 22-02-2020 4:30pm

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Will Buxton on the F1 Youtube channel says it's Taw-ree, not Tau-ree as he says about 18 mins into the Paddock Pass video posted last night

I've been thinking it should sound similar to how you say Taurus, but if the Italian fashionistas say it a different way then so be it!!

Cork Trucker · 22-02-2020 4:51pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well no not yet but the owners of the track have applied to replace China for this year. I mean a couple of years ago it was supposed to be back but monza sorted out a deal(which I'm happy about btw) and the track is certified to hold an F1 race so why not ?

The final two races at Imola were epic!, I’m sure we’re all old enough here to remember the Alonso/Schumacher duels not to mention ITV infamously taking an ad break during the final 3 laps in 2005.

Inviere · 22-02-2020 5:48pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Only time to do it is during the summer break in August?

Have tickets etc been sold for China? If it's replaced, what happens in that scenario with people who bought tickets?

Cork Trucker · 22-02-2020 5:53pm

Inviere wrote: »

Have tickets etc been sold for China? If it's replaced, what happens in that scenario with people who bought tickets?

I’d imagine as it was only 2 months out the tickets were fully sold. Refunds are more likely than a reschedule. Also the FIA will still expect their cheque in the post, albeit at a reduced rate.

Itssoeasy · 22-02-2020 6:31pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fXG3xbClco

Cork Trucker · 22-02-2020 6:36pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fXG3xbClco

I miss the sound of the naturally aspirated engine, but the Ferrari V12 singing is something you can’t better!

El_Duderino 09 · 24-02-2020 9:40am

Inviere wrote: »

I seen someone saying as much on Reddit the other day...that Merc are happy to have all eyes on the DAS system now, and nobody is paying attention to the rest of the car.

Well, you and I might be paying attention to the DAS but I imagine the teams are looking at everything they can see on the car. That’s their job.

antodeco · 24-02-2020 12:33pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I miss the sound of the naturally aspirated engine, but the Ferrari V12 singing is something you can’t better!

I had the enjoyment of sitting in a McLaren MP4-26 a long time ago. Engine on and electronically started and revved. Lets just say, earplugs and helmet, didnt get remotely block out the sound. Also, the vibration from the engine was like someone ringing your heart when its on vibrate!

On a side note to the sound, something that we dont appreciate enough, is the move to HD etc and what its done for sports, and especially F1.

H3llR4iser · 24-02-2020 1:13pm

antodeco wrote: »

I had the enjoyment of sitting in a McLaren MP4-26 a long time ago. Engine on and electronically started and revved. Lets just say, earplugs and helmet, didnt get remotely block out the sound. Also, the vibration from the engine was like someone ringing your heart when its on vibrate!

On a side note to the sound, something that we dont appreciate enough, is the move to HD etc and what its done for sports, and especially F1.

Sitting in the car, helmet & all, without taking her out for a spin? That's some S-Level teasing!

As for sound, can't agree more - it still doesn't come through from the TV, not at all. I've posted this in my report last year - you can "feel" the cars trackside, even with turbo engines, especially when they accelerate from lower revs.

24-02-2020 1:17pm

Funny enough I think the move to widescreen has made the cars look slower. In 4:3 the camera needs to move quickly to keep up and a car flashing past a stationary camera happens more quickly.

antodeco · 24-02-2020 1:54pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Sitting in the car, helmet & all, without taking her out for a spin? That's some S-Level teasing!

As for sound, can't agree more - it still doesn't come through from the TV, not at all. I've posted this in my report last year - you can "feel" the cars trackside, even with turbo engines, especially when they accelerate from lower revs.

Ah jesus, Id have that car wrapped around a fence in 10 seconds, but would be the best 10 seconds of my life haha.

Yeah even in the new era, the low bass rumble does vibrate into you. I remember my first f1 race I went to. I wasnt expecting how stupidly loud the cars were (in a good way!). If you didnt have earplugs in, you'd be sorry. Ive enjoyed testing this year. The engines seems a little louder, but that could just be better microphone pickups!

g1983d · 24-02-2020 7:07pm

The lack of noise is depressing, 1st time I heard one in the flesh 13 years ago made the hairs on my neck stand up.
Haven't been to a race in hybrid era but cant imagine that aspect is as exciting anymore

Side by side here
https://youtu.be/0WpFIY0sB54

H3llR4iser · 25-02-2020 1:14pm

g1983d wrote: »

The lack of noise is depressing, 1st time I heard one in the flesh 13 years ago made the hairs on my neck stand up.
Haven't been to a race in hybrid era but cant imagine that aspect is as exciting anymore

Side by side here
https://youtu.be/0WpFIY0sB54

Go to a race, video/TV don't give even remotely the full feel of the current engines - a lot of the bass/rumble is cut out. You literally "feel" the engines vibrating as they go through. I've actually heard the two pretty much side-by-side live (GP2 still ran on V8s for a while when F1 moved to the turbos) - they're different, but both have their merits.

And if we want to nitpick, I don't get why everyone lusts about the V10s, when this existed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K7h3bjfIPk

kksaints · 25-02-2020 4:18pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I have to say if just for this season I hope that imola is successful and gets back on the calendar as a replacement for China which has been postponed. Hopefully the coronavirus is under control by next year but this year it looks bad.

I presume Imola can forget about replacing China for now.

g1983d · 25-02-2020 7:20pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Go to a race, video/TV don't give even remotely the full feel of the current engines - a lot of the bass/rumble is cut out. You literally "feel" the engines vibrating as they go through. I've actually heard the two pretty much side-by-side live (GP2 still ran on V8s for a while when F1 moved to the turbos) - they're different, but both have their merits.

And if we want to nitpick, I don't get why everyone lusts about the V10s, when this existed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K7h3bjfIPk

Must get to another race alright, wasnt v10s in particular I was picking out, that was just the video I found on youtube.
I guess it's a bit like comparing f1 drivers through the years, it's not possible because there are so many variables.
I like the sound from the hybrids but the sheer brutal noise from the normally aspirated engines was something very exciting

Jordan 199 · 26-02-2020 3:52am

Last pre-season test begins today until Friday. It will be live on Sky Sports F1.

pjohnson · 26-02-2020 7:25am

Wonder will Renault reveal the RS20 properly

vectra · 26-02-2020 12:03pm

Possible Renault and McLaren protest against the Pink Merc.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/renault-and-mclaren-could-protest-racing-point-rp20/

Frank Bullitt · 26-02-2020 6:29pm

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Last pre-season test begins today until Friday. It will be live on Sky Sports F1.

We should get a better picture of things this week hopefully.

Seems a lot closer this year, hopefully throughout the whole field.

recyclebin · 26-02-2020 7:44pm

Looks like they sent Kubica out on a glory run with the softest tyres and low fuel to set fastest time this morning. It's hard to tell much else

Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

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