Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

Cork Trucker

As the 2019 season has now ended,why not start a new thread. Ocon heads to Renault tomorrow, December 2nd for the end of season test.

MOD Notes: Any talk of politics or anything that isn't directly F1 related will result in an instant 24hr ban.

pjohnson

2020 Entry List

Mercedes

44. Lewis Hamilton
77. Valtteri Bottas

Ferrari

5. Sebastian Vettel
16. Charles Leclerc

Red Bull

23. Alexander Albon
33. Max Verstappen

Renault

3. Daniel Ricciardo
31. Esteban Ocon

Haas

8. Romain Grosjean
20. Kevin Magnussen

McLaren

4. Lando Norris
55. Carlos Sainz Jnr

Racing Point

11. Sergio Perez
18. Lance Stroll

Alfa Romeo

7. Kimi Raikkonen
99. Antonio Giovinazzi

Alpha Tauri

10. Pierre Gasly
26. Daniil Kvyat

Williams

63. George Russell
TBA Nicholas Latifi

recyclebin

Anyone getting sick of the Alonso and talk about him returning? He said he's open to returning in 2021 but also wants to do the Indy 500. The Indy 500 run shows a lot of arrogance if he thinks he can just turn up for one round and win it. At least McLaren have seen sense and now know that it will take more than that.

Cork Trucker

recyclebin wrote: »

Anyone getting sick of the Alonso and talk about him returning? He said he's open to returning in 2021 but also wants to do the Indy 500. The Indy 500 run shows a lot of arrogance if he thinks he can just turn up for one round and win it. At least McLaren have seen sense and now know that it will take more than that.

He wants a top car, he’s 38, no top team will take him, in Christian Horner’s word because everywhere he goes he causes chaos. And who would want Alonso if Russell,Norris,LeClerc,Verstappen were also part of the queue. Kubica has a better chance of both an F1 return and one in a top team than Alonso does. Secretly I bet he regrets putting the gun to Ron Dennis’ head as when Rosberg retired Mercedes said he (Alonso) cost them $40m in 2007 and they haven’t forgotten that.

El_Duderino 09

recyclebin wrote: »

Anyone getting sick of the Alonso and talk about him returning? He said he's open to returning in 2021 but also wants to do the Indy 500. The Indy 500 run shows a lot of arrogance if he thinks he can just turn up for one round and win it. At least McLaren have seen sense and now know that it will take more than that.

Yes. Alonso is out. He's not coming back because the top teams don’t want him as he’s poison to the team and he’s well past his peak. He’d return for a year or 2, tear the team to sunders and leave. The end

H3llR4iser

Cork Trucker wrote: »

He wants a top car, he’s 38, no top team will take him, in Christian Horner’s word because everywhere he goes he causes chaos.

This is Fernando's issue, rather than age or anything else. He was OK at Renault because there was an even stronger "personality" (read: thundering arsehole) in the person of Flavio Briatore to keep him in check.



The Indy 500 lesson should be learnt by this time - you don't just "show up and win" as a "superior F1 driver / team". Last season he and McLaren failed to even qualify; His only real chance is to join a team like Andretti or Penske. And do a bloody full season in Indycar.

AMKC

Cork Trucker wrote: »

He wants a top car, he’s 38, no top team will take him, in Christian Horner’s word because everywhere he goes he causes chaos. And who would want Alonso if Russell,Norris,LeClerc,Verstappen were also part of the queue. Kubica has a better chance of both an F1 return and one in a top team than Alonso does. Secretly I bet he regrets putting the gun to Ron Dennis’ head as when Rosberg retired Mercedes said he (Alonso) cost them $40m in 2007 and they haven’t forgotten that.

Do you not mean Mclaren as Mercedes only supplied engines back then? I wonder if Alonso gave then $40m would they change there mind somehow I think not. I think it was more than just money. I think it was the it was damage to there brand and image that Alonso done that hurt more.

Alonso had his change and made his choices sometimes I think without thinking of the long term consequences of them. He could have easily been a 5 or 6 time WDC but he is only a 2 time WDC because of his choices and has to live with that.

The only way I can ever see him back in F1 is if he either starts his own team or he convinces a friend or company to start an F1 team with him as a shareholder in it.

Cork Trucker

AMKC wrote: »

Do you not mean Mclaren as Mercedes only supplied engines back then? I wonder if Alonso gave then $40m would they change there mind somehow I think not. I think it was more than just money. I think it was the it was damage to there brand and image that Alonso done that hurt more.

Alonso had his change and made his choices sometimes I think without thinking of the long term consequences of them. He could have easily been a 5 or 6 time WDC but he is only a 2 time WDC because of his choices and has to live with that.

The only way I can ever see him back in F1 is if he either starts his own team or gets a convinces a friend or company to join with him as a shareholder in it.

Mercedes owned a 40% stake in McLaren at the time. He damaged the brand but none more so than himself in the long run.

antodeco

There are only 2 chances of that happening. Either he starts his own team or he joins FE.

pjohnson

Roy Nissany Williams
Sean Gelael Toro Rosso
George Russell Mercedes
Pietro Fittipaldi Haas

Will be the test drivers running at the Abu Dhabi test session.

Hamilton, Ricciardo and Magnussen arent attending the test.

Ocon (Renault) will run both days alone as will Nissany do both days but he is splitting it as two half days with Russell (Tuesday) and Latifi (Wednesday) running the other half of each day for Williams. Russell gets a full day in the Mercedes on Wednesday (instead of Hamilton) Bottas running all day Tuesday. Gelael is doing a half day shared with Kvyat for Tuesday before Gasly does all day Wednesday. Fittipaldi is a straight swap with Magnussen on Wednesday with Grosjean doing all day Tuesday.

All other 2020 race drivers are present and will run one day each.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.crash.net/f1/results/935042/1/f1-abu-dhabi-postseason-test-day-1-results

Results of testing day 1.

Most interesting thing might be a bloke from Indonesia named Sean, driving the Toro Rosso.

pjohnson

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

https://www.crash.net/f1/results/935042/1/f1-abu-dhabi-postseason-test-day-1-results

Results of testing day 1.

Most interesting thing might be a bloke from Indonesia named Sean, driving the Toro Rosso.

His dad runs KFC in Indonesia so has been buying his son that Toro Rosso seat since 2017. Red Bull needed a rookie driver and with their academy kinda empty of properly licensed drivers Gelaels been filling in.

They also ran KFC logos in America last year (or 2017) when they gave Gelael the FP1 aswell iirc

chicorytip

pjohnson wrote: »

His dad runs KFC in Indonesia so has been buying his son that Toro Rosso seat since 2017. Red Bull needed a rookie driver and with their academy kinda empty of properly licensed drivers Gelaels been filling in.

They also ran KFC logos in America last year (or 2017) when they gave Gelael the FP1 aswell iirc

So, his da runs Kentucky Fried Chicken in Indonesia. He must be well up the pecking order in that case!! 😊
Sorry, I'll get my coat.

skipper_G

Rumours about Racing Point possibly being rebranded as Aston Martin, dependent on Lawrence Stroll buying into Aston. Obviously unsubstantiated, but one to watch

https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/05/aston-martin-racing-point-f1/

Cork Trucker

skipper_G wrote: »

Rumours about Racing Point possibly being rebranded as Aston Martin, dependent on Lawrence Stroll buying into Aston. Obviously unsubstantiated, but one to watch

https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/05/aston-martin-racing-point-f1/

Red Bull would be the big losers there due to the sponsorship. The one issue with the team is the driver lineup. Baby Stroll is being outclassed by Perez in a team which is essentially built for him by virtue of Daddy Stroll. Fine, the boy got 4th in Germany, but look at how that race went. I'd welcome Aston Martin as a full fledged F1 team, but clearly the pink will go if the deal goes through.

muckwarrior

Now there's no more disabled drivers in F1, Stroll goes back to being the worst on the grid. It still baffles me how some people can argue he deserves his place on merit.

flazio

muckwarrior wrote: »

Now there's no more disabled drivers in F1, Stroll goes back to being the worst on the grid. It still baffles me how some people can argue he deserves his place on merit.

Harsh, very harsh on Kubica who would probably own you on a racetrack no matter what he drives.
I'm not Strolls biggest fan either but the statistics will show that he's had twice as many podium finishes as Hulkenburg in half as many races.

Inviere

flazio wrote: »

Harsh, very harsh on Kubica who would probably own you on a racetrack no matter what he drives

Couldn't agree more, that was a ****ty thing to say.

H3llR4iser

flazio wrote: »

Harsh, very harsh on Kubica who would probably own you on a racetrack no matter what he drives.
I'm not Strolls biggest fan either but the statistics will show that he's had twice as many podium finishes as Hulkenburg in half as many races.

Only "Probably?" :D:D:D

Technically, Stroll has enjoyed UNDETERMINED times the podiums Hulkenberg did, as it would be a division by 0...

Fact is, Stroll remains a mystery: underperforming most of the times, then the conditions become harsh and other drivers start putting it in the wall, he comes up the front. He was 2nd on the grid in the deluge in Monza, nearly collected another podium in Hockenheim in changing conditions. The sheer skills are there, but for some reason he doesn't make use of them when it should be easiest to do so.

pjohnson

Stroll's racing is actually good, and he seemed to really get to grips (pardon the pun) with the tyres very quickly and often did very long stints on a set to try and overcut other drivers. Stroll on Sundays is actually a fairly good driver. His qualifying however is absolutely horrendous. He is like a modern reverse version of Jarno Trulli.

El_Duderino 09

Inviere wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, that was a ****ty thing to say.

But ultimately true. Now that Kubica’s gone, Stroll will almost certainly be the slowest driver again.

flazio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But ultimately true. Now that Kubica’s gone, Stroll will almost certainly be the slowest driver again.

It's still going to be Russell and Latifi in my opinion, Grosjean won't be that far ahead.

pjohnson

I thought the 2020 thread may have moved on from "KUBICA SLOWEST F1 DRIVER EVARRRRR MKAAAY"

But clearly not.

El_Duderino 09

flazio wrote: »

It's still going to be Russell and Latifi in my opinion, Grosjean won't be that far ahead.

Ah yes if you’re considering the car. Like Alonso/button were the slowest drivers a few years ago.

I was just thinking about the driver rather than driver-car combo.

muckwarrior

flazio wrote: »

Harsh, very harsh on Kubica who would probably own you on a racetrack no matter what he drives.
I'm not Strolls biggest fan either but the statistics will show that he's had twice as many podium finishes as Hulkenburg in half as many races.

Just to be clear, that was no way intended to be a dig at Kubica. I was one of the people rooting for his comeback and am happy he got the chance to test himself in F1 again and he can be proud of what he acheived. The fact remains though that he has a physical disability and as it transpires, it seems to have prevented him from racing at the limit of his capabilities.

Kubica scored Williams' only points this season. Does that make him better than Russell? No, of course not. Just like Stroll having scored a podium doesn't make him better than Hulkenberg. Hulk was on a par with Perez. Stroll has gotten his arse kicked by him.

Inviere

muckwarrior wrote: »

Just to be clear, that was no way intended to be a dig at Kubica.

Well then it was a very poor choice of words on your part. The term disabled, means not able to do something. He clearly can still race and drive an F1 car...just because he's not at his very best any more hardly means he's disabled. I'd say he has an impairment, that perhaps hampers his potential, but being out of an F1 car for almost a decade was probably a far bigger impairment for Robert. He'd still demolish the vast majority of fans on a track, so you'd have to wonder who's more disabled, him or us...

El_Duderino 09

Inviere wrote: »

Well then it was a very poor choice of words on your part. The term disabled, means not able to do something. He clearly can still race and drive an F1 car...just because he's not at his very best any more hardly means he's disabled. I'd say he has an impairment, that perhaps hampers his potential, but being out of an F1 car for almost a decade was probably a far bigger impairment for Robert. He'd still demolish the vast majority of fans on a track, so you'd have to wonder who's more disabled, him or us...

Ugh yawn. I'm so sick of this palaver every time someone criticised Kubica. Yes he was great to come back after his injury, hes a great guy, has a massive knob, gives his Mrs an orgasm with every pump, his farts smell like rose oil, he's basically a world champion as he would have won WDCs while he was out or the sport. He probably would have won about 10 WDCs in the 8 years he was out - now the honest part.

He was in the top 3 slowest drivers on the grid this year, all year. Had the worst quali record against his teammate and failed to beat his teammate even once in quali all year. Had the biggest overall gap to his teammate in both quali and Races. He was a pay driver this year. If he didn't bring big oil money he wouldn't have been within an ass's roar of an f1 seat on merit.

Disabled, Impared, handicapable or just not good enough for f1, whatever you want to call it. What happened is clear. He came back and was beaten black and blue by his teammate - A ROOKIE!.That's the salient thing. He's gone and we do t have to have these discussions where we have to list 10 ways he's amazing before we get down to the truth that he's not fast enough for f1 for whatever reason.

We're all making the excuse that his arm is holding him back. Maybe it isn't an issue and he's just that far off the pace. Either way, it doesn't really matter anymore.

skipper_G

The hilarious thing is how a post about Racing Point and Aston Martin turned into yet another Kubica debate. Speaking of which, a follow up on the original article

https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/06/analysis-what-a-racing-point-aston-martin-deal-would-mean-for-them-f1-and-red-bull/

pjohnson

skipper_G wrote: »

The hilarious thing is how a post about Racing Point and Aston Martin turned into yet another Kubica debate. Speaking of which, a follow up on the original article

https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/06/analysis-what-a-racing-point-aston-martin-deal-would-mean-for-them-f1-and-red-bull/

And Kubica isn't even on the 2020 grid. El Duderino just has a major fetish a this point. Not suprised they just mentioned orgasms in their latest Kubica rant.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

And Kubica isn't even on the 2020 grid. El Duderino just has a major fetish a this point. Not suprised they just mentioned orgasms in their latest Kubica rant.

The way people preyed he's still a good driver is a bit sad TBH. When people say stroll is shyte, nobody says "Yeah well, stroll would beat you in a race, so, whose shyte".

Without sugar coating it, Kubica was shyte this year. And he's been dumped off the grid because he's not fast enough. And luckily well never have to debate this again because he ain't coming back - that much is for sure. The end.

Cork Trucker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

And luckily well never have to debate this again because he ain't coming back - that much is for sure. The end.

It appears he has signed his own F1 exit if this is true, as Perez has a 3 year deal and well, he won't get Baby Stroll's seat. @Skipper_G what do you make of this being a Racing Point supporter?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/kubica-leaning-towards-racing-point-deal/

pjohnson

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The way people preyed he's still a good driver is a bit sad TBH. When people say stroll is shyte, nobody says "Yeah well, stroll would beat you in a race, so, whose shyte".

Without sugar coating it, Kubica was shyte this year. And he's been dumped off the grid because he's not fast enough. And luckily well never have to debate this again because he ain't coming back - that much is for sure. The end.

If only but I'm pretty sure you'll keep harping on about him.

El_Duderino 09

Cork Trucker wrote: »

It appears he has signed his own F1 exit if this is true, as Perez has a 3 year deal and well, he won't get Baby Stroll's seat.

I think he was invited out of williams and couldn't get a drive with any other team, more then him quitting. I really don't think he dumped them. Didn't he have a 2 year deal originally?

skipper_G

Cork Trucker wrote: »

It appears he has signed his own F1 exit if this is true, as Perez has a 3 year deal and well, he won't get Baby Stroll's seat. @Skipper_G what do you make of this being a Racing Point supporter?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/kubica-leaning-towards-racing-point-deal/

I don't think it will make any substantive difference at all, Kubica hasn't driven the Racing Point car, ever. They can get much more meaningful feedback from Perez. Vastly experienced in the current gen car, and he also happens to be good.

The Strolls get an inordinate amount of stick on here because of the money being put behind Lance, but as a Racing Point fan I'm grateful for them, without them I wouldn't have a team to support. Lance drives really well in races, but his qualy is crap.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

If only but I'm pretty sure you'll keep harping on about him.

We'll see if he ever gets a drive again. That will be the end of it if he doesn't. Do you think he is fast enough to get another f1 drive on merit?

But I suspect people will be making excuses for him for time to come. In a couple of no they'll be remembering a decent competitive comeback. Like the way he was remembered as a definite world champion while he was out of the sport

pjohnson

So not the end and the fetish continues :pac:


Argree re. Stroll aswell. His qualy is abysmal and often leaves him with no hope come raceday. His actual raceday is normally good.

AMKC

I liked Kubica and it took lots of guts for him to come back and race in F1 after what happened to him but that is it now so lets just leave it at that.I think hew could do good in maybe WEC, DTM or Formula e but that would have to be next season not the season just started.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

So not the end and the fetish continues :pac:


Argree re. Stroll aswell. His qualy is abysmal and often leaves him with no hope come raceday. His actual raceday is normally good.

Isn't it at least interesting that we can't have an honest appraisal of Kubica's season without people getting upset? And now you're upset for some reason that I'd discuss it at all. Is there a blanket ban on discussing the 2019 season?

Inviere

AMKC wrote: »

I liked Kubica and it took lots of guts for him to come back and race in F1 after what happened to him but that is it now so lets just leave it at that.I think hew could do good in maybe WEC, DTM or Formula e but that would have to be next season not the season just started.

Agreed, his time in F1 is definitely over, there can be no doubt now. He could eek something out as a reserve/development driver, but if I were him, I'd be chasing success in another series.

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

I liked Kubica and it took lots of guts for him to come back and race in F1 after what happened to him but that is it now so lets just leave it at that.I think hew could do good in maybe WEC, DTM or Formula e but that would have to be next season not the season just started.

Just say he was brilliant to come back and don't even mention how his season went and " just leave it at that"?

Isn't it at least Interesting that so many people are so reluctant to even discuss the season he had. It's a bit unreasonable to.expect anyone to "leave it at that" before even mentioning his performance.

Nobody leaves it at that before discussing Stroll's speed. Nobody says "grosjean is good on his day and let's just leave it there". Or "Maldonado is a race winner and let's just leave it at that".

Drivers are complex. Kubica is not just his injury and there's loads to discuss about his and all the driver's performances. It's actually ridiculous to suggest we pick one good aspect of character and ignore everything about his actual season performance

muckwarrior

Inviere wrote: »

Well then it was a very poor choice of words on your part. The term disabled, means not able to do something. He clearly can still race and drive an F1 car...just because he's not at his very best any more hardly means he's disabled. I'd say he has an impairment, that perhaps hampers his potential, but being out of an F1 car for almost a decade was probably a far bigger impairment for Robert. He'd still demolish the vast majority of fans on a track, so you'd have to wonder who's more disabled, him or us...

You're right. Physically impaired would have been a better choice of words.

Inviere

muckwarrior wrote: »

You're right. Physically impaired would have been a better choice of words.

Apologies if I came across as harsh, it's a topic I guess I'm close to

muckwarrior

Inviere wrote: »

Apologies if I came across as harsh, it's a topic I guess I'm close to

No worries. I didn't mean to offend anyone (except Stroll obviously :pac:)

tigerboon

AMKC wrote: »

I liked Kubica and it took lots of guts for him to come back and race in F1 after what happened to him but that is it now so lets just leave it at that.I think hew could do good in maybe WEC, DTM or Formula e but that would have to be next season not the season just started.

He was testing the BMW M4 in DTM during the week so a switch to that looks likely.

Zaph

A lot of the discussion about Kubica has been about whether his arm was a factor in his performance this season. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but either way he was in the slowest car on the grid almost a decade after he last drove F1. The sport has moved on a lot since then and Russell would have come through junior formulas in that time in cars which would probably more closely mirror current F1 design than the last F1 cars Kubica drove do. Sure, the restricted space in the cockpit may have been a limiting factor for his arm, but I think it's simply that he's a bit of a dinosaur in F1 terms now. Obviously Hamilton, Kimi, etc. are part of his generation, but they've been there the whole time as the cars developed so haven't had as steep a learning curve. I think something like touring cars or Le Mans would suit Kubica better at this stage of his career, and I think he could do well in either because ultimately he was always a quick driver.

Frank Bullitt

So Pirelli won't use the 2020 spec tires due to the teams not liking them.

Can't wait to hear them complain again and again about the 2019 spec...

pjohnson

Racing Points 3 year fundraiser deal with the Breast Cancer Charity has ended so very high chance the pink livery will be gone regardless of any Aston Martin deal.


Alpha Tauri are expected to switch from Toro Rosso blue to a white and black livery.





Personal preference, I'd like to see more yellow on the 2020 Renault.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

Racing Points 3 year fundraiser deal with the Breast Cancer Charity has ended so very high chance the pink livery will be gone regardless of any Aston Martin deal.


Alpha Tauri are expected to switch from Toro Rosso blue to a white and black livery.

I thought the pink livery was because of BWT the water company. Their colours are blue and pink and a few other cars in other formula who are sponsored by BWT also have the same livery.

pjohnson

Whoops not everything on reddit is reliable lol.

Coincidence the breast cancer and BWT deals both started in 2017.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

Whoops not everything on reddit is reliable lol.

Coincidence the breast cancer and BWT deals both started in 2017.

Must be just coincidence.

Breast cancer is a funny one in F1. Unless they were marketing to men to check for Breast cancer. Or were they just advertising the brand? Can't say I've heard much about it as a sponsor either way so it might not have been a massive success.

pjohnson

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Must be just coincidence.

Breast cancer is a funny one in F1. Unless they were marketing to men to check for Breast cancer. Or were they just advertising the brand? Can't say I've heard much about it as a sponsor either way so it might not have been a massive success.

What women are involved in and watch F1 aswell?
Anyway the've done plenty of fundraising and had the logo on the car so thought it was well known link.



https://www.racingpointf1.com/news/2019-sportpesa-racing-point-f1-team-breast-cancer-care-target-achieved