Your New WHS Index

PabloAndRoy · 10-05-2021 5:19pm

Seve OB wrote: »

It is my understanding that it’s not up to your club to allow or not allow. You could do it this week if you want.
Unless you would be playing in competition time I don’t think the club would be technically allowed to deny you the opportunity to enter a casual score for counting purposes.
I would guess though that the club are trying to either make sure they get their comp fees, which would be unfair IMO. Or else they are trying to make sure that chancers aren’t going out playing casual games ....... badly........ on purpose......

Either way, not really sure they can stop you.

And I really don’t think you have to have all 3 handicaps on your card. Index and course handicap should be sufficient for a casual game.

When we do play comps, I really hope we don’t have to remember to put 3 numbers on the card, that will be a disaster

I am pretty sure this is what it is. I can see members being unhappy about this. My wife for example was delighted with this casual playing for hanicap as she gets way too nervous in comps and she is a good few shots better than her handicap. She regularly beats me hands down on stableford even if I have 36 points.

On the 3 numbers on your comp card, apparently the label printed out will have the numbers on it.

prawnsambo · 10-05-2021 6:43pm

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

I am pretty sure this is what it is. I can see members being unhappy about this. My wife for example was delighted with this casual playing for hanicap as she gets way too nervous in comps and she is a good few shots better than her handicap. She regularly beats me hands down on stableford even if I have 36 points.

On the 3 numbers on your comp card, apparently the label printed out will have the numbers on it.

The labels for our comps printed from Handicap Master have just the course and playing handicaps on them, but the tees have been selected at sign in. Handicap Index only comes into play when calculating CH and PH from the tees played from. So it's quite possible that they would want all three and an indication of what tees you're playing from so that they can check the card and the score.

paulos53 · 10-05-2021 6:58pm

Based on the Rules of Golf the only handicap that needs to be recorded on the card is the Course Handicap.

Golf Ireland have the option to change this to the Handicap Index or Playing Handicap but I haven't heard anything about them taking this option

Personally I prefer to add the Playing Handicap also just to make it easier on the marker to see what holes I have shots on

prawnsambo · 10-05-2021 7:17pm

paulos53 wrote: »

Based on the Rules of Golf the only handicap that needs to be recorded on the card is the Course Handicap.

Golf Ireland have the option to change this to the Handicap Index or Playing Handicap but I haven't heard anything about them taking this option

Personally I prefer to add the Playing Handicap also just to make it easier on the marker to see what holes I have shots on

I'm reading this as a request from the club to members to make it easier to check cards.

copacetic · 10-05-2021 8:33pm

IAmTitleist wrote: »

What way does the soft cap and hard cap work?

My current "low index" is 7.5. Can the highest i go to be 10.5 or 12.5?!

As noted, it would be 12.5, but once you got to 3 shots ever extra shot over that soft cap would only add .5 per extra shot. So basically to get to 12.5 would involve best 8 score differentials averaging 7 shots worse than your handicap. I think there can be other factors too, but assuming working off best 8 of 20 already the above is about right.

Seve OB · 10-05-2021 9:42pm

paulos53 wrote: »

Based on the Rules of Golf the only handicap that needs to be recorded on the card is the Course Handicap.

Golf Ireland have the option to change this to the Handicap Index or Playing Handicap but I haven't heard anything about them taking this option

Personally I prefer to add the Playing Handicap also just to make it easier on the marker to see what holes I have shots on

Playing Handicap could be course handicap if not in competition ?

WH BONNEY · 13-05-2021 11:35am

Would anybody have any information or experienced the same as below.

Any plus handicap players or scratch players in our club have reverted back to their pre WHS handicap.

An example would be a person off .4 went to +.7 but is now showing as .4 again, not having played.

Another person went from 3.0 to 1.6 and remains at 1.6

Seems ridiculous and I'm assuming it's a glitch.

If anybody could shed any light on it I'd appreciate it.

RGS · 13-05-2021 11:44am

WH BONNEY wrote: »

Would anybody have any information or experienced the same as below.

Any plus handicap players or scratch players in our club have reverted back to their pre WHS handicap.

An example would be a person off .4 went to +.7 but is now showing as .4 again, not having played.

Another person went from 3.0 to 1.6 and remains at 1.6

Seems ridiculous and I'm assuming it's a glitch.

If anybody could shed any light on it I'd appreciate it.

I believe golf ireland reviewed and are rrviewing elite golfers handicap and changes were and will be made. I know of 3 in our club whos handicap were amended.

the long lad · 13-05-2021 2:24pm

RGS wrote: »

I believe golf ireland reviewed and are rrviewing elite golfers handicap and changes were and will be made. I know of 3 in our club whos handicap were amended.

This change is absolutely crazy. We have guys who were off scratch/1 under old system who now have higher handicaps than guys who were on the junior cup team last year. These guys probably shouldn't be off +1, but when the guys off 4 moved to 1.5/2, it made some sense. The fact that the guys are now all of the same because of some mad adjustment by Golf Ireland is just nonsense.

macslash · 13-05-2021 7:00pm

I see when using the 'player search/peer review' option on the golf Ireland app, it's now only showing the players scores. It was showing dates and courses before. Not a big deal, just an update!!

Seve OB · 13-05-2021 11:21pm

macslash wrote: »

I see when using the 'player search/peer review' option on the golf Ireland app, it's now only showing the players scores. It was showing dates and courses before. Not a big deal, just an update!!

I thought it was just me

hurikane · 13-05-2021 11:24pm

macslash wrote: »

I see when using the 'player search/peer review' option on the golf Ireland app, it's now only showing the players scores. It was showing dates and courses before. Not a big deal, just an update!!

Bit annoying, that update.

WH BONNEY · 14-05-2021 12:15am

RGS wrote: »

I believe golf ireland reviewed and are rrviewing elite golfers handicap and changes were and will be made. I know of 3 in our club whos handicap were amended.

So by carrying out this so called review all plus and scratch players have been adjusted back to their pre WHS
Those that were off 3 etc and were adjusted down stay at their new handicaps.

Which means in a comp like Barton Cup the governing body is facilitating cheating by endorsing these false handicaps.

An utterly bizarre and incompetent interpretation of the review mechanism

macslash · 14-05-2021 12:43am

hurikane wrote: »

Bit annoying, that update.

Ya, tbh I kind of liked seeing how the few lads changed after the weekend's score etc. Now there's no way of knowing what scores were comps or casual etc.

Mantis Toboggan · 14-05-2021 8:05am

Yeah they made a balls of that last update.

RGS · 14-05-2021 8:29am

WH BONNEY wrote: »

So by carrying out this so called review all plus and scratch players have been adjusted back to their pre WHS
Those that were off 3 etc and were adjusted down stay at their new handicaps.

Which means in a comp like Barton Cup the governing body is facilitating cheating by endorsing these false handicaps.

An utterly bizarre and incompetent interpretation of the review mechanism

What I stated was a review was taking place and 3 players in our club had adjustments made. I doubt all elite players will go back to their previous handicap. In fact the lowest handicapped golfer in our club at +3 remains at +3.

PabloAndRoy · 14-05-2021 10:15am

RGS wrote: »

What I stated was a review was taking place and 3 players in our club had adjustments made. I doubt all elite players will go back to their previous handicap. In fact the lowest handicapped golfer in our club at +3 remains at +3.

I don't see any changes to our elite bunch. In that the WHS h/cs have stayed unchanged.

prawnsambo · 14-05-2021 10:59am

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

I don't see any changes to our elite bunch. In that the WHS h/cs have stayed unchanged.

Likewise. Downloaded pdfs of the handicaps at various stages since October and no change.

Dotzie · 14-05-2021 11:17am

All plus and scratch lads in my club have reverted back to congu handicaps. Golf ireland have been contacted and response was ask your hcap secretary as details of review have been sent to your club. Nothing has been received from golf ireland to the club to explain what happened.

manster · 14-05-2021 8:56pm

macslash wrote: »

I see when using the 'player search/peer review' option on the golf Ireland app, it's now only showing the players scores. It was showing dates and courses before. Not a big deal, just an update!!

GDPR?

dan_ep82 · 14-05-2021 9:00pm

manster wrote: »

GDPR?

Or a bit easy to figure out you weren't actually sick or in work that day :pac:

Seve OB · 14-05-2021 9:47pm

Odd
Someone just accepted my friend request and I can see all their info but every one else is still blacked out

prawnsambo · 14-05-2021 10:19pm

manster wrote: »

GDPR?

You can still see them on the website.

6o9fv7jpreb180 · 14-05-2021 10:27pm

Checked out some of the bandits in my club on the golf ireland app... they really have no shame some of the rounds they are submitting.

Alanm · 14-05-2021 11:33pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Odd
Someone just accepted my friend request and I can see all their info but every one else is still blacked out

There's a setting on the website now under my profile for it:
Hide score play dates from other members

Doesn't appear to be in the app though.

Mantis Toboggan · 16-05-2021 8:41pm

Any reason why lower scores within my last 20 aren't being used? EG I have 91's being used and a few 89's not being used for my handicap?

prawnsambo · 16-05-2021 8:53pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Any reason why lower scores within my last 20 aren't being used? EG I have 91's being used and a few 89's not being used for my handicap?

Do they also have a lower score differential?

Mantis Toboggan · 16-05-2021 8:57pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Do they also have a lower score differential?

Where would I see that on the app?

prawnsambo · 16-05-2021 8:59pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Where would I see that on the app?

Doesn't show it on the app afaik. You need the web version. I would suspect that the 89s have a higher score differential and hence are not in your top eight.

ger664 · 17-05-2021 11:45pm

Got Email from the club today re casual rounds

Must declare before hand @ pro shop submit a card and on the app on completion of the round

If away from the club must adhere to that club's procedure for casual rounds.

€5 admin fee applies but is waived for players with less then 20 qualifying scores.

I think this is the fairest way to prevent bandits but allow new members or members who don't play may comps to have a more accurate handicap index with a full complement of qualifying scores.

septicsac · 18-05-2021 2:51am

ger664 wrote: »

Got Email from the club today re casual rounds

Must declare before hand @ pro shop submit a card and on the app on completion of the round

If away from the club must adhere to that club's procedure for casual rounds.

€5 admin fee applies but is waived for players with less then 20 qualifying scores.

I think this is the fairest way to prevent bandits but allow new members or members who don't play may comps to have a more accurate handicap index with a full complement of qualifying scores.

Why would anyone do this when you can use the golfireland app.You declare before the round and have to have someone to attest the score, with no fee applied?
It wont address those who massage their scores, they will exist in any system.

Golfgraffix · 18-05-2021 7:47am

ger664 wrote: »

€5 admin fee applies but is waived for players with less then 20 qualifying scores.
.

I think you might see more of this. I can tell anecdotally that in the short time that competitions have been back that the numbers playing competition has dipped but the opposite for non competition golf.

If this is a trend that remains it may hurt revenue, especially for the clubs with small visitor numbers.

It could well be just a blip, maybe just the novelty of casual counting golf but it will be interesting to follow how it goes for the remainder of the season.

J

blindside88 · 18-05-2021 8:45am

How does this new system work for new handicaps? A friend of mine is submitting his 3 cards for handicap this week. I assume his handicap will fluctuate quite a bit until he gets close to 20 cards will it?

prawnsambo · 18-05-2021 9:40am

blindside88 wrote: »

How does this new system work for new handicaps? A friend of mine is submitting his 3 cards for handicap this week. I assume his handicap will fluctuate quite a bit until he gets close to 20 cards will it?

Yes. The calculation is on a scale from three to twenty. On three it's the best score differential minus two. On four, it's the lowest minus one, five is lowest with no deduction, six is average of best two, etc

blindside88 · 18-05-2021 9:46am

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yes. The calculation is on a scale from three to twenty. On three it's the best score differential minus two. On four, it's the lowest minus one, five is lowest with no deduction, six is average of best two, etc

That’s very clear. Thanks so much

prawnsambo · 18-05-2021 9:47am

septicsac wrote: »

Why would anyone do this when you can use the golfireland app.You declare before the round and have to have someone to attest the score, with no fee applied?
It wont address those who massage their scores, they will exist in any system.

The club needs to know that scores are being put through. Handicap committees should be able to keep track of scores that affect handicaps and unless they trawl through the clubhouse portal of Golf Ireland on a daily basis, member by member, it's hard to know about these. And (as Golfgraffix says) it could be affecting competition entries.

gypsy79 · 18-05-2021 9:49am

prawnsambo wrote: »

The club needs to know that scores are being put through. Handicap committees should be able to keep track of scores that affect handicaps and unless they trawl through the clubhouse portal of Golf Ireland on a daily basis, member by member, it's hard to know about these. And (as Golfgraffix says) it could be affecting competition entries.

There is a report generated daily and I have enough ability to download it and identify trends

I do it for our teams but also for handicap committee

Only one suspicious so far and you hear mixed stories about him

prawnsambo · 18-05-2021 9:57am

gypsy79 wrote: »

There is a report generated daily and I have enough ability to download it and identify trends

I do it for our teams but also for handicap committee

Only one suspicious so far and you hear mixed stories about him

Forgot about that report.

But we still get cards dropped in without anything being entered online or on the computer (people are slow to change

), so a sign-in sheet is a good backup. Golf Ireland actually recommend that you do this and have even produced a template for you to use.

Seve OB · 18-05-2021 10:53am

I think it stinks that clubs are charging an administration fee to play a casual game.

callaway92 · 18-05-2021 10:59am

Seve OB wrote: »

I think it stinks that clubs are charging an administration fee to play a casual game.

Can the club not be bypassed in playing your casual round anyway though? But yeh, it's completely scummy and I would've thought that hopefully Golf Ireland can step in there to an extent to prevent this from happening which charges on casual rounds.

I'll admit I've been playing 20+ years now, but never bothered reading up on WHS properly.

I actually don't know where to start with it.

I don't know my password for my GUI card, so that in itself is a nuisance because to retrieve it I think I need to contact my club which is annoying.

DuckSlice · 18-05-2021 11:26am

Seve OB wrote: »

I think it stinks that clubs are charging an administration fee to play a casual game.

But in the documentation supplied to clubs by Golf Ireland, they have to process a score even if there is no payment made. So by rights if you don't pay your score still gets processed. I still need to test this out.

dan_ep82 · 18-05-2021 12:11pm

Charging for a service which is provided for free elsewhere is just a poor idea.

martinkop · 18-05-2021 12:35pm

Yeah, I'm not a fan of this charging for casual rounds, actually its a disgrace imo. But i mentioned here a while back that comp entries would take a hit as a result of this handicap option

I think the best way to protect comp entries and associated €5 entry is to reserve the busy Sat/Sun tee times for competition entry only.
Casual rounds any other time, work away, but if playing at weekend comp time, then enter the comp.

But comp fees will suffer regardless. Needing 40 pts to feature and you haven't shot 36 points in months, eventually people stop throwing €5 away every week. Most club golfers (me included) will continue to support but a lot won't.
And as for €5 for a casual round, good luck, this round won't be recorded, thanks. I'll just enjoy it all the same.

PabloAndRoy · 18-05-2021 12:39pm

martinkop wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not a fan of this charging for casual rounds, actually its a disgrace imo. But i mentioned here a while back that comp entries would take a hit as a result of this handicap option

I think the best way to protect comp entries and associated €5 entry is to reserve the busy Sat/Sun tee times for competition entry only.
Casual rounds any other time, work away, but if playing at weekend comp time, then enter the comp.

But comp fees will suffer regardless. Needing 40 pts to feature and you haven't shot 36 points in months, eventually people stop throwing €5 away every week. Most club golfers (me included) will continue to support but a lot won't.
And as for €5 for a casual round, good luck, this round won't be recorded, thanks. I'll just enjoy it all the same.

I reckon it will all settle down and most won't do the casual round thing, when they realise that it's just not the same as competition (which is a different experience entirely).

Edit: I am struggling to make 36 points still, but I still intend to enter comp this coming w/e.

Hoboo · 18-05-2021 1:35pm

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I think you might see more of this. I can tell anecdotally that in the short time that competitions have been back that the numbers playing competition has dipped but the opposite for non competition golf.

If this is a trend that remains it may hurt revenue, especially for the clubs with small visitor numbers.

It could well be just a blip, maybe just the novelty of casual counting golf but it will be interesting to follow how it goes for the remainder of the season.

J

I for one will be skipping 18 hole competitions for the most part. 9 holes 4 times a week fits much better than 5 hours on a weekend day. I get more match practice, not as tired, and have the weekends back, and still get cut (hopefully). So theres no incentive, other than the majors where you want your name in gold lettering.

Maybe a minimum comps played for majors might be required to overcome people like me? But I'd hope clubs become creative rather than restrictive and introduce for example 9 hole comps run over 5 days at 2 euro/round. I'd enter at least 3 times, and thats more revenue than my one comp at the weekend.

Come end of October its back to 9 hole comps and too dark during the week so Ill probably end up playing 4x9 at the weekend, but for the summer, no chance.

First week of competitions and there's a waiting list so the hunger is still there for others.

prawnsambo · 18-05-2021 3:47pm

etxp wrote: »

But in the documentation supplied to clubs by Golf Ireland, they have to process a score even if there is no payment made. So by rights if you don't pay your score still gets processed. I still need to test this out.

The club can still delete it if they don't think it's been properly recorded.

blue note · 18-05-2021 5:16pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

The club can still delete it if they don't think it's been properly recorded.

Surely not paying extra for it can't count as not properly recorded?

DuckSlice · 18-05-2021 5:32pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

The club can still delete it if they don't think it's been properly recorded.

If you follow the protocols in place, then according to Golf Ireland they can not. 7.8 in this link - https://static.clubhouse.golfireland.ie/clubs/1000/uploads/files/play_golf/gi%20advice%20to%20handicap%20committees%20may12.pdf

While it is a matter for each club if it wishes to charge for General Play Rounds, all pre-registered General Play scores returned must be submitted for handicap purposes
irrespective of whether or not payment has been made

prawnsambo · 18-05-2021 8:42pm

etxp wrote: »

If you follow the protocols in place, then according to Golf Ireland they can not. 7.8 in this link - https://static.clubhouse.golfireland.ie/clubs/1000/uploads/files/play_golf/gi%20advice%20to%20handicap%20committees%20may12.pdf

While it is a matter for each club if it wishes to charge for General Play Rounds, all pre-registered General Play scores returned must be submitted for handicap purposes
irrespective of whether or not payment has been made

I was careful to say 'not properly recorded' for a reason.

padmcv · 19-05-2021 8:08am

Hoboo wrote: »

But I'd hope clubs become creative rather than restrictive and introduce for example 9 hole comps run over 5 days at 2 euro/round.

I would love to see some creativity like this!!

Your New WHS Index

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