Your New WHS Index

prawnsambo

yawhat? wrote: »

These rules are linked on the golfnet site.

https://www.golfnet.ie/whs

I’m not certain that rounding won’t apply twice, but I’m linking to why I think it won’t. Nobody can provide a link to where it says rounding should apply twice.

I posted a link earlier from a US site. https://www.oga.org/playing-handicap-calculation-world-handicap-system

Edit: Also it's clear from the tables provided by Golf Ireland.

yawhat?

prawnsambo wrote: »

I posted a link earlier from a US site. https://www.oga.org/playing-handicap-calculation-world-handicap-system

Yes, but that doesn’t show the full calculation.

The course handicap is used for net double bogey adjustments, so it needs to be a whole number for that purpose. It does not need to be a whole number before applying the playing allowance.

Ceepo

prawnsambo wrote: »

Exactly. Most scorecards I've seen have a box for handicap and another one for strokes received. You don't get DQ for not putting in strokes received, you do for not putting in your handicap. So look at Course Handicap as Handicap and Playing Handicap as strokes received and you won't go wrong.

Great, thanks for the clarification.

prawnsambo

yawhat? wrote: »

Yes, but that doesn’t show the full calculation.

The course handicap is used for net double bogey adjustments, so it needs to be a whole number for that purpose. It does not need to be a whole number before applying the playing allowance.

I'm basing everything I'm posting on this subject on the guidance from Golf Ireland.

Here's part of an email that was sent out by them on Friday and was to be forwarded to all members by their respective clubs:

You simply have to choose the tees you are playing off that day and cross reference your Handicap Index on the Course & Slope Rating table to ascertain your Course Handicap. Different tees on the same course could have varying slope ratings. Your Course Handicap determines the number of strokes you give or receive off the tee set you intend to play from.

Then, depending on the format you are playing (singles, fourball etc.) you will apply a handicap allowance to your course handicap which will present you with your playing handicap.

For example: The recommended handicap allowance for individual stroke play events is 95% which means a player could have a course handicap of 15 but a playing handicap of 14.

prawnsambo

Did an analysis on our club (most of the issues sorted now, so pretty close to final) handicaps relative to their new WHS Playing Handicap (including 95% adjustment).

Same or lower - 36%
1 stroke increase - 32%
2 stroke increase - 15%
3 stroke increase - 12%
More than 3 - 5%

Most of those larger increases relate to new members who just got allocated a handicap and haven't any scores in, or who got too low an allocation based on their performance since it was allocated. Very few (if any) relate to established golfers with a decent number of rounds in.

blue note

prawnsambo wrote: »

Did an analysis on our club (most of the issues sorted now, so pretty close to final) handicaps relative to their new WHS Playing Handicap (including 95% adjustment).

Same or lower - 36%
1 stroke increase - 32%
2 stroke increase - 15%
3 stroke increase - 12%
More than 3 - 5%

Most of those larger increases relate to new members who just got allocated a handicap and haven't any scores in, or who got too low an allocation based on their performance since it was allocated. Very few (if any) relate to established golfers with a decent number of rounds in.

I'd love to see that breakdown by club. In theory they should all be very similar. But we'll see.

prawnsambo

blue note wrote: »

I'd love to see that breakdown by club. In theory they should all be very similar. But we'll see.

I suppose you could simplify it down to two thirds are lower or no more than one stroke. Which I think should be the norm.

yawhat?

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'm basing everything I'm posting on this subject on the guidance from Golf Ireland.

Here's part of an email that was sent out by them on Friday and was to be forwarded to all members by their respective clubs:

Yeah, I understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t think you are correct.

See calculator below from another UK club. There is no rounding before playing handicap. Example 8.8 handicap index on 124 slope with 95% adjustment gives you 9 playing handicap. This would be 10 if course handicap was rounded.

https://handy-six.vercel.app/

prawnsambo

yawhat? wrote: »

Yeah, I understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t think you are correct.

See calculator below from another UK club. There is no rounding before playing handicap. Example 8.8 handicap index on 124 slope with 95% adjustment gives you 9 playing handicap. This would be 10 if course handicap was rounded.

https://handy-six.vercel.app/

I'll know later for sure when I get the WHS version of Handicap Master running. That would be the definitive test. Assuming I can test without ruining somebody's handicap record.

Also. it's not me that's incorrect if you're right, it's Golf Ireland.

Edit: And I didn't have to wait to find out. This image is from the release notes for the latest version of HM:



So looks like you are correct. Take a bow.

yawhat?

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'll know later for sure when I get the WHS version of Handicap Master running. That would be the definitive test. Assuming I can test without ruining somebody's handicap record.

Also. it's not me that's incorrect if you're right, it's Golf Ireland.

Edit: And I didn't have to wait to find out. This image is from the release notes for the latest version of HM:



So looks like you are correct. Take a bow.

Yeah, the anomalies were too big when the rounded course handicaps are used. Thanks for the info.

Seve OB

yawhat Gay?

fair play to you for your persistence, but I'm with prawn, golf Ireland have failed in their communication on this one

it is just going to make this an even bigger mess now if you ask me

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

yawhat Gay?

fair play to you for your persistence, but I'm with prawn, golf Ireland have failed in their communication on this one

it is just going to make this an even bigger mess now if you ask me

Yep. It's clear that the guidance wasn't specific enough. I've had a problem with this from the start. All the flashy videos on WHS.com were worth diddly squat to the likes of me who wanted to know the exact mathematical processes. It was frustrating as hell. Having said that, the average golfer won't care about this calculation since 'the computer will do it'. :rolleyes:

Seve OB

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yep. It's clear that the guidance wasn't specific enough. I've had a problem with this from the start. All the flashy videos on WHS.com were worth diddly squat to the likes of me who wanted to know the exact mathematical processes. It was frustrating as hell. Having said that, the average golfer won't care about this calculation since 'the computer will do it'. :rolleyes:

this is the kind of thing I and many others have been saying all along, they haven't given us enough info. but yet you continued to stick up for them

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

this is the kind of thing I and many others have been saying all along, they haven't given us enough info. but yet you continued to stick up for them

It's like all my other posts don't exist.

I've been complaining about that stuff since the beginning.

Seve OB

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's like all my other posts don't exist.

I've been complaining about that stuff since the beginning.

I'm not going back through all the posts, but you know well that I've given out a lot about how the GUI rolled this out, and you know that you kept defending them

Russman

Which leads to the obvious next question, what handicap do you put down on your card ?
I had thought, prior to the clarification above, that you put your course handicap on the card, but you're hardly going to put down 15.5009 are you ?

Will the charts that clubs have been sent reflect the rounding issue ?

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

I'm not going back through all the posts, but you know well that I've given out a lot about how the GUI rolled this out, and you know that you kept defending them

Only specifically with the current roll out. It was exactly the same for England and Wales. I absolutely thought it was the right idea to go after them as they would highlight any errors. But there's absolutely no way you can blame them for delays in having the portal ready. That's down to the developers and out of the control of GUI/Golf Ireland.

Edit: Here's one of my posts on the subject from almost a year ago. And you can see that it's not the first time I voiced that criticism.

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's an interesting exercise to do. Unfortunately at this stage, there's not enough information to come up with an accurate (or even vaguely accurate) number. As I said above, it's frustrating that the governing bodies are being so vague about it. Pop onto their websites and there are lots of flashy videos and presentations, but they're all in the form of "don't worry your pretty little head about it" when it comes to the nitty gritty.

For those interested, there's a white paper from one of the software companies that was published in April. It specifically states that the 96% 'magic number' will not be used. Page 12 gives the system highlights.

prawnsambo

Russman wrote: »

Which leads to the obvious next question, what handicap do you put down on your card ?
I had thought, prior to the clarification above, that you put your course handicap on the card, but you're hardly going to put down 15.5009 are you ?

Will the charts that clubs have been sent reflect the rounding issue ?

The actual integer Course Handicap. That's what's on the issued tables, so I won't DQ you for that.

Russman

prawnsambo wrote: »

The actual integer Course Handicap. That's what's on the issued tables, so I won't DQ you for that.

:D

That makes sense. It'll be hugely important for guys to be made aware that the Playing Handicap calculation isn't based on what's written on their card, but rather on the calculated course handicap un-rounded.
I can see there being mayhem !! The break point between getting an extra shot won't be falling at the 0.5 mark of your index. In my case an index of 10.2 gives me 11 shots (playing) off our blue tees but an index of 10.1 only gives me 10 (playing).

BraveDonut

So, is golfnet just not in use anymore and we use golfireland from now on?

RoadRunner

My two scores from Oct are now entered, but they do not show up on the graph.
PCC,Score Diff, WHS index fields are empty. The last point on the graph is highlighted red. Perhaps the October scores are still missing some information?

Brusna

BraveDonut wrote: »

So, is golfnet just not in use anymore and we use golfireland from now on?

That’s correct but it will remain available for some time I guess until the new system is up and running fully.

Brusna

Glad to see the rounding issue has been resolved. My club’s competition tee’s slope rating is set at 119 which conveniently works out at 105%. So our playing handicap (95%) will be the same as our handicap index.

twounderpar

Despite verifying my email,I still can't log in.

Seve OB

Question for the handicap secretarys

Will we just have to print out a sticker like before and will it show the correct handicap for the day?
Without this........well it will be mayhem

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

Question for the handicap secretarys

Will we just have to print out a sticker like before and will it show the correct handicap for the day?
Without this........well it will be mayhem

Haven't had a run at the new version of HM yet, but I'd be fairly sure that'll be the case. Can't see why not tbh. It's not the third secret of Fatima.

But here's an interesting one. Apparently your (virtual) course scorecards originate on the WHS platform and clubs download and use them for qualifying competitions. This would be true for all club software systems.

Course Scorecards

In order to ensure consistency between competition scoring and handicap index calculations, the Golf Unions require the course details to be entered into their WHS Platform. The values entered into the WHS Platform have to be downloaded and these values used in HandicapMaster, when sending any scores for handicapping purposes.

Ceepo

"To clarify the way i calculated it.
My Hi 21*120 (slope) /113 = 22.3.... 22.3*95 = 21.1.. "

So can i take it that this is the right way to calculate the playing handicap.

prawnsambo

Ceepo wrote: »

"To clarify the way i calculated it.
My Hi 21*120 (slope) /113 = 22.3.... 22.3*95 = 21.1.. "

So can i take it that this is the right way to calculate the playing handicap.

So it seems.

Ceepo

prawnsambo wrote: »

So it seems.

Thanks to everyone for the input.
Im sure that the computer will spiit out the the correct handicap when im entering a competition. I just wanted a basic understanding of it.
Now all i have to do is work on getting it down to a respectable number

macslash

Brusna wrote: »

Glad to see the rounding issue has been resolved. My club’s competition tee’s slope rating is set at 119 which conveniently works out at 105%. So our playing handicap (95%) will be the same as our handicap index.

Same as!