Your New WHS Index

GreeBo

Mine is bang on too for the latest/current

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

Maybe the way the club imported them?
Mine is bang on, the way it should be and last column ties in with my correct index.
There were also a couple of imports done.

It’s weird the way it is different for a lot of people

Yeah, mine is spot on too. But a few that had away scores missing (but which were on GolfNet) and imported later, reported the discrepancy. It's clearly not important, so long as the current index is correct. The others are pretty irrelevant apart from being a curiosity.

Seve OB

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah, mine is spot on too. But a few that had away scores missing (but which were on GolfNet) and imported later, reported the discrepancy. It's clearly not important, so long as the current index is correct. The others are pretty irrelevant apart from being a curiosity.

so as i said
i was the same, had away scores missing, when they were imported everything updated the way it should. just weird that it is different for some, but as you say, clearly not all that important, and it will wash its face as we add rounds in

Seve OB

actually i should add in about NR scores.
My club actually followed up with the GUI and they replied that it is known that NR scores were not imported into the WHS as it was to difficult. I think it would have meant that every score would have needed to have been manually updated or something to add a net double in place of the scratch. Anyway there is no intention to import them. Clubs can manually add the scores in should they be required.
I'm not bothering as difference is so small, would mean an initial increase to my HI, it's just not worth the hassle from my own and clubs point of view as it would be way to much work for them and as above, it will wash its face as new scores are added.

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

actually i should add in about NR scores.
My club actually followed up with the GUI and they replied that it is known that NR scores were not imported into the WHS as it was to difficult. I think it would have meant that every score would have needed to have been manually updated or something to add a net double in place of the scratch. Anyway there is no intention to import them. Clubs can manually add the scores in should they be required.
I'm not bothering as difference is so small, would mean an initial increase to my HI, it's just not worth the hassle from my own and clubs point of view as it would be way to much work for them and as above, it will wash its face as new scores are added.

Well I know for a fact that that's not correct. We've had a lot of NR scores imported. And it's been very patchy. Some have, some haven't. Most NR/DQs from strokeplay have been added, but not all. NDB was used for missing hole scores. The NRs were hilarious, generally entered as par plus a random number like 33 or 35 and so never came into the HI calculation, but would have pushed out some other scores. Very haphazard, but they will wash out.

Seve OB

Seve OB wrote: »

actually i should add in about NR scores.
My club actually followed up with the GUI and they replied that it is known that NR scores were not imported into the WHS as it was to difficult. I think it would have meant that every score would have needed to have been manually updated or something to add a net double in place of the scratch. Anyway there is no intention to import them. Clubs can manually add the scores in should they be required.
I'm not bothering as difference is so small, would mean an initial increase to my HI, it's just not worth the hassle from my own and clubs point of view as it would be way to much work for them and as above, it will wash its face as new scores are added.

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well I know for a fact that that's not correct. We've had a lot of NR scores imported. And it's been very patchy. Some have, some haven't. Most NR/DQs from strokeplay have been added, but not all. NDB was used for missing hole scores. The NRs were hilarious, generally entered as par plus a random number like 33 or 35 and so never came into the HI calculation, but would have pushed out some other scores. Very haphazard, but they will wash out.

so re-read my post. the scores needed to be adjusted. you must have had somebody adjust them somehow.

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

so re-read my post. the scores needed to be adjusted. you must have had somebody adjust them somehow.

Well I have two different categories of NR. Actual NRs with no card and no scores. Random 'ish scores were entered for them. Then there were the strokeplay NRs where one or two holes were scratched. Those had NDBs entered for them. None of that was done at club level. They were already done by the time the club got access to the back end of Golf Ireland.

Brusna

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well I have two different categories of NR. Actual NRs with no card and no scores. Random 'ish scores were entered for them. Then there were the strokeplay NRs where one or two holes were scratched. Those had NDBs entered for them. None of that was done at club level. They were already done by the time the club got access to the back end of Golf Ireland.

In my club the NR’s from strokeplay competition’s did not come through to the WHS.

The NR’s from stableford competition’s did come through with a gross score equal to the CSS + net difference + players handicap.

Seve OB

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well I have two different categories of NR. Actual NRs with no card and no scores. Random 'ish scores were entered for them. Then there were the strokeplay NRs where one or two holes were scratched. Those had NDBs entered for them. None of that was done at club level. They were already done by the time the club got access to the back end of Golf Ireland.

well somebody must have done something to make the changes for your club it seems because everyone who has commented here has stated that NR's haven't come across and I have asked friends and family from about 10 other clubs as well as being told indirectly from the GUI & Golf Ireland through my club. (I've seen the GUI email)

NR's were not carried across simply because there was no actual score.

for the record, because I know you like to be overly pedantic on this issue, we are talking about the standard NR's as displayed in golfnet when somebody scratches a hole or 2 in stroke play, but enters the rest of their scores. You like to call them DQ's, but if NR is good enough for the GUI and golfnet it's good enough for the rest of us.

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

well somebody must have done something to make the changes for your club it seems because everyone who has commented here has stated that NR's haven't come across and I have asked friends and family from about 10 other clubs as well as being told indirectly from the GUI & Golf Ireland through my club. (I've seen the GUI email)

Since I'm the person in my club that did everything with the system, I'm pretty sure that it wasn't done at the club end.

As I said, these were on the system when we first got access to it. Also, there's no way for a club to do this without manually entering each score for each member one by one. I had a big enough job checking each member's records with ours without having to add a bunch of NRs as well. I'm not that bored.

Seve OB wrote: »

for the record, because I know you like to be overly pedantic on this issue, we are talking about the standard NR's as displayed in golfnet when somebody scratches a hole or 2 in stroke play, but enters the rest of their scores. You like to call them DQ's, but if NR is good enough for the GUI and golfnet it's good enough for the rest of us.

I thought I was clear above. Both types of 'NRs' were brought across. What I would DQ a player for were correctly handled with NDBs for missing hole scores. Actual NRs were CSS+ND+Handicap which I thought was kinda pointless. The problem was that this wasn't universal. It just seemed to be random. Some players had them added, some didn't.

macslash

Hi, just a quick query. With placing during winter golf and that, am I right in saying that competition scores won't effect the new HI? So my current HI will stay the same each weekend, no matter how good or bad I play?

Apologies if I'm totally wrong.

prawnsambo

macslash wrote: »

Hi, just a quick query. With placing during winter golf and that, am I right in saying that competition scores won't effect the new HI? So my current HI will stay the same each weekend, no matter how good or bad I play?

Apologies if I'm totally wrong.

Not necessarily. During the Winter season (November to April iirc), you can still have qualifying competitions providing that the rules of golf are not suspended beyond the model local rules designed to help protect golf courses when conditions are wet.

Basically, preferred lies on fairways (lift clean and place no more than 6" from where the ball is at rest) and lift, clean and REplace in the rough are local rules that can be applied and maintain qualifying.

You can look up the model local rules here: The specific ones are MLR-E2 and MLR-E3. These are also covered in the CONGU manual and assume they will be in the WHS handicapping manual as well.

Seve OB

prawnsambo wrote: »

Basically, preferred lies on fairways (lift clean and place no more than 6" from where the ball is at rest) and lift, clean and REplace in the rough are local rules that can be applied and maintain qualifying.

why the hell do we not use this rule more, no reason not to

fred funk }{

Seve OB wrote: »

why the hell do we not use this rule more, no reason not to

Most comps are shortened to fewer holes in winter so qualifying golf is difficult to play so its not just the above.

Ceepo

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Most comps are shortened to fewer holes in winter so qualifying golf is difficult to play so its not just the above.

Wouldn't 9 hole count

fred funk }{

Ceepo wrote: »

Wouldn't 9 hole count

Try telling members their 14/15 hole weekend competition is now 9 holes. 😄

Ceepo

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Try telling members their 14/15 hole weekend competition is now 9 holes. 😄

Sure couldn't you play 9 hole competition, and play a few extra social holes.

Seve OB

Daft that 9 hole comps can count but 12, 14 or whatever can’t

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

Daft that 9 hole comps can count but 12, 14 or whatever can’t

It was always an issue. The problem under CONGU was that you needed to get assessed specifically for the holes in play in order to get an SSS for them. I imagine it's possible to do this for 12 or 15 holes, but difficult to do calculations on handicaps with hole indexes etc. So some clubs had just the front nine assessed for nine hole comps, but not the back nine. But until you had an SSS for the particular set of holes, you couldn't have qualifying comps on them.

Under WHS, front and back nines have been rated by default. I really don't know if it's possible to do that with 12 or 15, but I'd expect it's difficult enough.

Seve OB wrote: »

why the hell do we not use this rule more, no reason not to

I think this is a recent enough change. I first saw it mentioned here and it was listed in a CONGU update last year, but the GUI firstly denied that it was effective here (even though CONGU had said it was), but after some back and forth, the GUI allowed it for qualifying comps.

spacecoyote

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think this is a recent enough change. I first saw it mentioned here and it was listed in a CONGU update last year, but the GUI firstly denied that it was effective here (even though CONGU had said it was), but after some back and forth, the GUI allowed it for qualifying comps.

Yeah, I think this year was the first year I saw the rule implemented in my home club.

They used it for the first medal of the year

david2002

In WHS the calculation would be
Course Handicap 11.7( (9.8 X 135) / 113) + course rating minus course par
Why in ireland do we not include include rating - par.
Just interestedin the logic ofGB and Irent usin whs calc.

Its supposed to be a world handicap system.

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

CONGU handicap 11.9.

WHS Handicap Index 9.8.

Course Handicap 11.7( (9.8 X 135) / 113) with 135 being the slope index of my home course off white tees.

Playing Handicap for competitions is 95% of course handicap which in my case gives me 11 shots.

PabloAndRoy

david2002 wrote: »

In WHS the calculation would be
Course Handicap 11.7( (9.8 X 135) / 113) + course rating minus course par
Why in ireland do we not include include rating - par.
Just interestedin the logic ofGB and Irent usin whs calc.

Its supposed to be a world handicap system.

I saw this article about the flaws of including the "course rating minus par". The author created the USGA Course Rating System, so it's not some random blogger. It's worth a read.
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth

According to him the GB&I approach is the correct one, although he doesn't explicitly mention it..

Golfgraffix

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth

According to him the GB&I approach is the correct one, although he doesn't explicitly mention it..

Very interesting read. Thanks

FixdePitchmark

Anybody any issues with the email link to register.

2 days waiting.

IAmTitleist

prawnsambo wrote: »

Not necessarily. During the Winter season (November to April iirc), you can still have qualifying competitions providing that the rules of golf are not suspended beyond the model local rules designed to help protect golf courses when conditions are wet.

Basically, preferred lies on fairways (lift clean and place no more than 6" from where the ball is at rest) and lift, clean and REplace in the rough are local rules that can be applied and maintain qualifying.

You can look up the model local rules here: The specific ones are MLR-E2 and MLR-E3. These are also covered in the CONGU manual and assume they will be in the WHS handicapping manual as well.

What is lift clean and replace?

A drop from knee height?!

prawnsambo

IAmTitleist wrote: »

What is lift clean and replace?

A drop from knee height?!

No. Literally put the ball back from where you lifted it. Exactly or as near as. You can't place in a preferred location as you can on the fairway.

prawnsambo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Anybody any issues with the email link to register.

2 days waiting.

I think you'll be waiting for a response to this too, since most people have registered a good while ago. :pac:

I would suggest all the usual things like check your spam folder, if it's a Gmail address, check whether it's gone into 'Updates' or similar and if that all fails, go through the process again and make sure there are no typos in your email address - I know this will prompt an indignant response, but if I had a € for every time this has happened (despite protestations to the contrary) I'd be off playing golf a lot more and sitting in front of my computer a lot less.

decko11

prawnsambo wrote: »

While you're waiting for your h/sec, check for the missing scores on GolfNet. If they're not there, it's definitely the club's issue and not the GUI.

I'm in the same predicament with 10 scores unprocessed - they are clearly visable in Golfnet - yet my handicap sec says he has no record of them - does this make sense or is he wrong ?

prawnsambo

decko11 wrote: »

I'm in the same predicament with 10 scores unprocessed - they are clearly visable in Golfnet - yet my handicap sec says he has no record of them - does this make sense or is he wrong ?

Rather than write it up all over again, here's my response to another poster with the same query:

prawnsambo wrote: »

The only difference I see on Master Scoreboard is that away scores don't seem to show up on your playing record. All my home scores are there going back two years. Unprocessed scores are usually away scores which haven't been processed by your club. The sequence (before WHS) went like this:
1. Away club posts your scores to GolfNet when closing the competition.
2. They remain unprocessed until your club runs a GolfNet update; usually before closing a home competition in order to capture any changes to your handicap that may have resulted from an away comp.
3. The scores on GolfNet change from unprocessed to processed (like any other scores).

However, there seems to have been some 'churn' in the GolfNet data at the time of changeover. Some clubs may have found that all data from an older competition didn't transfer, so 'forced' an update for that competition in order to capture the missing data (around the time of the changeover, you'll find a conversation between me and Golfgraffix on this thread about how to deal with this kind of problem). That may have resulted in previously processed scores becoming unprocessed again.

I'm clearly hypothesizing here as I don't have access to your systems and can't tell for sure. But the above outline is what I've observed at the time of changeover and how we fixed it. The problem now is that we've moved on, software now doesn't talk to GolfNet but talks to Golf Ireland and away scores seem to be dealt with differently. (assuming your missing scores were away ones).

So if they're away scores, I think now that the system is dependant on the away clubs updating the WHS portal and your h/sec has no way of doing it now. It should have been sorted before the changeover, but a lot of clubs didn't even log in to the new portal when it was opened up to them in advance of the changeover and then left it too late to make any amendments. I had to do a lot of this stuff for my club and it took a lot of time and effort to have everything sorted by changeover day.

decko11

prawnsambo wrote: »

Rather than write it up all over again, here's my response to another poster with the same query:



So if they're away scores, I think now that the system is dependant on the away clubs updating the WHS portal and your h/sec has no way of doing it now. It should have been sorted before the changeover, but a lot of clubs didn't even log in to the new portal when it was opened up to them in advance of the changeover and then left it too late to make any amendments. I had to do a lot of this stuff for my club and it took a lot of time and effort to have everything sorted by changeover day.

Thanks Prawnsambo

Some of my unprocessed go back 2 years - any idea why the home club wouldnt process etc