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FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

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  • Options
    #7652
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,986 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Go back to the people...cheaper and more honest all round.

    What if the people give us the same answer?


  • Options
    #7653
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,986 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    smurgen wrote: »
    FG just being FG again. What a dissapointing party. How is it they hide behind this dubious legal advice whenever a backbone is needed?

    And your alternative legal advice is?

    To be honest, I have no idea why we are even talking about that bill right now. I can assure you that 99.9% of the Irish population are nor thinking about it anyway, they are more worried about a) Covid-19 and b) their jobs.

    And anyway, this caretaker government cannot pass any more legislation even if they wanted to.. so whats the point again? Oh, yea, just mouthing off cause its more productive or something.

    But its classic whataboutism. We saw the same from DCC when SF held power there. At a time of ever-increasing homelessness in Dublin, which DCC was responsible for, the good boys and girls there, spent time debating whether to fly the Palestinian flag over Dublin City Hall... great priorities alright.

    No wonder they got booted out at the last Local Elections. That's the SF record right there. Failure.


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    #7654
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,113 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    markodaly wrote: »
    And your alternative legal advice is?

    To be honest, I have no idea why we are even talking about that bill right now. I can assure you that 99.9% of the Irish population are nor thinking about it anyway, they are more worried about a) Covid-19 and b) their jobs.

    And anyway, this caretaker government cannot pass any more legislation even if they wanted to.. so whats the point again? Oh, yea, just mouthing off cause its more productive or something.

    But its classic whataboutism. We saw the same from DCC when SF held power there. At a time of ever-increasing homelessness in Dublin, which DCC was responsible for, the good boys and girls there, spent time debating whether to fly the Palestinian flag over Dublin City Hall... great priorities alright.

    No wonder they got booted out at the last Local Elections. That's the SF record right there. Failure.

    And it would be the very same if they were running the country.

    Their priorities are all symbolism, flags, slogans usually relevant 50 years ago.

    You are correct, Sir.


  • Options
    #7655
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Annoying losers, oddballs, and cranks on Twitter isn’t going to keep him awake at night, Murph.

    I dunno about that, for a self obsessed egotist who has self image infatuations with himself, it's little things like that, that might be exactly the kind of thing to keep him awake at night.

    From where I'm sitting he's not going to get much respite either, because I think there's more chance of Charlie Flanagan defecting to the shinners/officially cancelling the tan commemorations, than there is of Varadkar and Martin cobbling together an arranged marriage with the Greens.

    2020's G.E.2 is on the way I reckon.


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    #7656
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    efanton wrote: »
    Sectarian in which way? Plenty of protestants have supported SF and republicanism.
    There no rule that says you cant join SF if you are a protestant or any religion other than catholic.

    During the troubles there were even protestant members of the IRA, how would that square with what you are saying?

    Believe it or not there are still protestants who believe in a united Ireland and there been a long list of them. Likewise there have been catholic who continue to support the idea of a British Union and they still exist.

    To suggest SF are sectarian is totally false. You can certainly accuse them of republicanism and against any form of Unionism, but that has nothing to do with sectarianism or the religion or background of a person.

    I suppose you could use the word sectarian in the sense of political doctrine but surely that has nothing to do with religion, colour, background. In that sense it would be equally valid to say there is a sectarian divide between FF and FG.

    If you're a member of a party who refuses to condem the actions of a paramilitary organisation who blew up innocent men women and children because of their ethnicity or race then it's a bit rich to be giving out about racism I think.


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    #7657
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,081 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    So, you admit, you are just mouthing off with little or no knowledge about the facts of the issue.

    Your modus operandi is, mine for a tweet, cue faux outrage with dollops of ad-hominins and pejorative name-calling. Rinse and repeat a few thousand times.

    All from someone who never voted for SF before the last election. :pac:

    No matter what I said, that would have been your answer. 'Faux Outrage - shinnerbot...etc etc etc.
    My complete hate of Leo and his spin and my hate for Enda before him is precisely because I voted for them in 2011 and '16.
    If you are representative of FG and I think you are, then your failure to take on board the implications of that means they will continue hemorrhaging votes. Suits me, because like a growing number, I am sick of them.
    markodaly wrote: »
    What if the people give us the same answer?

    The onus is then on the parties to listen to what the people said...again.


  • Options
    #7658
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,113 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    No matter what I said, that would have been your answer. 'Faux Outrage - shinnerbot...etc etc etc.
    My complete hate of Leo and his spin and my hate for Enda before him is precisely because I voted for them in 2011 and '16.
    If you are representative of FG and I think you are, then your failure to take on board the implications of that means they will continue hemorrhaging votes. Suits me, because like a growing number, I am sick of them.



    The onus is then on the parties to listen to what the people said...again.

    Francie..... the knee must be flaring up.

    You surely don’t expect people of any intelligence to believe that post.

    C’mon now, decending to fairytale stuff.


  • Options
    #7659
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,081 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Francie..... the knee must be flaring up.

    You surely don’t expect people of any intelligence to believe that post.

    C’mon now, decending to fairytale stuff.

    What you would believe Brendan?...could not give a continental hoot what you believe.
    Your 'me and FG agin the world' scthick and cowardly insinuations that you walk away from when called out on, are old now.

    It will all come in more then useful again come the the next election so keep it up.


  • Options
    #7660
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,986 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    No matter what I said, that would have been your answer.

    Actually, no. I am open to honest up-front debate. At least posters like Efanton are willing to debate things. I respect him for that at least. Most other posters of the SF ilk are just drive-by shooters, armed with the Tweet of the day before disappearing not to be seen again till the next tweet.


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    #7661
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,081 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Actually, no. I am open to honest up-front debate. At least posters like Efanton are willing to debate things. I respect him for that at least. Most other posters of the SF ilk are just drive-by shooters, armed with the Tweet of the day before disappearing not to be seen again till the next tweet.

    Maybe start by telling the truth about posters?...I rarely post tweets and contribute to the various debates. And I don't disappear from a discussion.

    As I sadi, if you cannot see the coldness in that comment by Varadkar, then there isn't much point discussing it with you.


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    #7662
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,248 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    efanton wrote: »
    I see FF/FG are now looking at scraping the barrel to keep the coalition dream afloat. Its looking likely that any hope of the Greens becoming part of the coalition have dropped dramatically.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/regional-tds-offered-group-or-individual-deals-to-back-coalition-1.4270959

    It looks like FF/fG are now looking toward the Regional Independent Group to prop up their coalition.

    My personal opinion is this move is more likely to be driven by Michael Martin than Leo or FG, but this would give the coalition government just 80 seats. There will be no room whatsoever for an unexpected revolt from an independent TD, an independent essentially black mailing the government or making additional demands for their support once a government is formed, or the unfortunate death of a government TD.
    A very risky manoeuvre in my opinion but that's my reasoning that its is probably driven by Mehole than Leo.
    It will be very hard for FG to be taking the higher moral ground when they are willing to have Micheal Lowry on board and in government.

    There is spin and there is this post commenting on a newspaper article. Sub-heading reads:

    "Eight-strong group holds meeting with Martin, Varadkar and Ryan"

    That makes your spin laughable.


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    #7663
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,248 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    smurgen wrote: »
    FG just being FG again. What a dissapointing party. How is it they hide behind this dubious legal advice whenever a backbone is needed? It's their equivalent of shadowy figures.

    https://twitter.com/frances_black/status/1268488873958653952?s=19


    If the Occupied Territories Bill is the issue holding up the formation of a government, you'd have to think it is 99.9% there, wouldn't you?

    Hardly an earth-shattering issue.


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    #7664
    efanton
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭efanton


    blanch152 wrote: »
    There is spin and there is this post commenting on a newspaper article. Sub-heading reads:

    "Eight-strong group holds meeting with Martin, Varadkar and Ryan"

    That makes your spin laughable.

    Whats laughable is that if FF/FG/Green needed more on board would that not have been a good idea a month ago.

    Now we have a situation where there will be no government for yet another month. How long are FG going to SPIN out government formation? Are they actually even interested in forming a government, or happy exactly as they are now, in government but not fully accountable to the Dail, with taoiseach that cant face a no confidence motion

    What I posted is not spin.
    Explain to me why suddenly it has become apparent they need the regional independents that include Micheal Lowry to be part of government and why if it is so important that it has taken a month or more to actually get round to coming up with this thought?
    I am sure you response is going to be far more entertaining and fanciful than mine


  • Options
    #7665
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,248 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    McMurphy wrote: »
    I dunno about that, for a self obsessed egotist who has self image infatuations with himself, it's little things like that, that might be exactly the kind of thing to keep him awake at night.

    From where I'm sitting he's not going to get much respite either, because I think there's more chance of Charlie Flanagan defecting to the shinners/officially cancelling the tan commemorations, than there is of Varadkar and Martin cobbling together an arranged marriage with the Greens.

    2020's G.E.2 is on the way I reckon.


    I think the Trump situation is currently showing up what a useless platform Twitter is, when it comes to politics.

    If Irish voters are as stupid as American voters, then you may well have a point, as they will follow the stupid trends on Twitter which you constantly highlight.

    Maybe I am a hopeless dreamer, but I have a little more faith in the ability of the Irish voter to see beyond the silly games on Twitter when our country is coming through a crisis like this.


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    #7666
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,081 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I think the Trump situation is currently showing up what a useless platform Twitter is, when it comes to politics.

    If Irish voters are as stupid as American voters, then you may well have a point, as they will follow the stupid trends on Twitter which you constantly highlight.

    Maybe I am a hopeless dreamer, but I have a little more faith in the ability of the Irish voter to see beyond the silly games on Twitter when our country is coming through a crisis like this.


    What the champions of some version of the power swap and the established media do all the time, is highlight the extremes of social media and try to block out what social media actually is.
    It is a democratic, unbiased platform for political thought if used right. And it is used right, there is a fantastic variety of opinion out there and it has a voice.
    They (the power swap and the media) cannot influence it and that scares the hell out of them. Hence the characterisation of it as 'stupid' or a cesspit of bile.


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    #7667
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    What do the fg fanboys here think of the free luxury apartments that those on the social housing list will be getting in donnybrook ? Likely couldnt afford them yourselves, dont worry I couldnt either. But were paying for it. Waiting for the excuses and justification already!!!!

    https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/cairn-homes-agrees-30m-deal-to-sell-61-apartments-to-council-on-former-rte-lands-in-donnybrook-39260558.html


  • Options
    #7668
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What the champions of some version of the power swap and the established media do all the time, is highlight the extremes of social media and try to block out what social media actually is.
    It is a democratic, unbiased platform for political thought if used right. And it is used right, there is a fantastic variety of opinion out there and it has a voice.
    They (the power swap and the media) cannot influence it and that scares the hell out of them. Hence the characterisation of it as 'stupid' or a cesspit of bile.

    Nail on the head. Was watching news the other night and they said same thing and that Zuckerberg admitted as much. At least in other countries, you will have a broader opinion. Here it's the state propaganda for ffg. Pathetic


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    #7669
    Blazer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,419 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    It's their neighbors I feel sorry for. Dropping 61 welfare families into that is absolutely crazy.
    Hopefully it goes to genuine cases and not the likes of Cash or the SF TD in Clare who never bothered paying rent.


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    #7670
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Blazer wrote: »
    It's their neighbors I feel sorry for. Dropping 61 welfare families into that is absolutely crazy.
    Hopefully it goes to genuine cases and not the likes of Cash or the SF TD in Clare who never bothered paying rent.

    Nobody except workers that qualify for it should get it. I've heard many rent our their social housing for cash and live with their " single mother" partner...


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    #7671
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,534 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    My complete hate of Leo and his spin and my hate for Enda before him is precisely because I voted for them in 2011 and '16.



    You do realise that your own posting history from 2016 is visible on here?



    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Maybe start by telling the truth

    Self-awareness clearly isn't one of your strong points


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    #7672
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,248 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What the champions of some version of the power swap and the established media do all the time, is highlight the extremes of social media and try to block out what social media actually is.
    It is a democratic, unbiased platform for political thought if used right. And it is used right, there is a fantastic variety of opinion out there and it has a voice.
    They (the power swap and the media) cannot influence it and that scares the hell out of them. Hence the characterisation of it as 'stupid' or a cesspit of bile.


    You and Donald Trump are in full agreement.


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    #7673
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,250 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    What do the fg fanboys here think of the free luxury apartments that those on the social housing list will be getting in donnybrook ? Likely couldnt afford them yourselves, dont worry I couldnt either. But were paying for it. Waiting for the excuses and justification already!!!!

    https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/cairn-homes-agrees-30m-deal-to-sell-61-apartments-to-council-on-former-rte-lands-in-donnybrook-39260558.html

    Haven't you heard there is a homeless crisis.

    Maggie Cash and her ilk need to be housed.

    Erica Fleming appearing on stage for sinn féin demanding housing for all has to be listened to.


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    #7674
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,248 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    What do the fg fanboys here think of the free luxury apartments that those on the social housing list will be getting in donnybrook ? Likely couldnt afford them yourselves, dont worry I couldnt either. But were paying for it. Waiting for the excuses and justification already!!!!

    https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/cairn-homes-agrees-30m-deal-to-sell-61-apartments-to-council-on-former-rte-lands-in-donnybrook-39260558.html

    Wasn't Part V of the Act introduced by a FF government?


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    #7675
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,113 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What the champions of some version of the power swap and the established media do all the time, is highlight the extremes of social media and try to block out what social media actually is.
    It is a democratic, unbiased platform fro political thought if used right. And it is used right, there is a fantastic variety of opinion out there and it has a voice.
    They (the power swap and the media) cannot influence it and that scares the hell out of them. Hence the characterisation of it as 'stupid' or a cesspit of bile.

    Rubbish:it is unqualified, biased, poorly informed, manipulated,driven gimps pumping out propaganda and rhetoric usually against ‘the man’ for the main part.

    Horsed out by coins who in the main are working of agendas and fancy themselves as ‘influencers’.
    Let’s not elevate some people who contribute to social media to statesmen and pseudo intellectuals whose cerebral prowess has to be admired from afar.

    Just tubes like the rest of us giving our 20c.


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    #7676
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Haven't you heard there is a homeless crisis.

    Maggie Cash and her ilk need to be housed.

    Erica Fleming appearing on stage for sinn féin demanding housing for all has to be listened to.

    How convenient. Miriam o'callaghan will be handing out the keys to margaret cash and her ilk. Only few second stroll from rte. The two of them are already best buds, margaret can invite her in, give her a coffee and cake etc. Sure it's all paid for by you and I anyway...


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    #7677
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    I see because they have failed to get FF and Labour into bed with them, The FG fanboys have reverted to have a go at SF.

    SF have got to them.

    https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/06/05/beacon-blues/

    "It was responsible for signing a deal that saw Ireland’s privately owned hospitals temporarily taken over by the state as Ireland desperately tried to increase its healthcare capacity as Covid-19 reached its shores in March.

    Now, however, the Beacon Hospital, owned by millionaire businessman Denis O’Brien, has decided to leave the Private Hospital Association (PHA) with immediate effect and manage its own future negotiations.

    The move has caused consternation among fellow hospital owners involved in the group.

    The Beacon has made it clear to other members that it will no longer rely on the PHA when negotiating any future contracts with the state in relation to Covid-19 or any other matter."


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    #7678
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Could I ask the fg supporters here , if they support the outrageous welfare state. Free luxury apartments for those that would never vote for them. Why would I as am ex fg voter , vote for them ? What have they offered up to me except lies ?


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    #7679
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,113 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Could I ask the fg supporters here , if they support the outrageous welfare state. Free luxury apartments for those that would never vote for them. Why would I as am ex fg voter , vote for them ? What have they offered up to me except lies ?

    What I support,my friend, is fair play for good sport.

    In other words, help where and when it is genuinely needed and genuine ‘gamers’ being tackled fairly and squarely, applying to all,whatever stratum of society they may put themselves in.

    Quite ‘simples’ really innit?

    No amazing obfuscations or histrionics involved.......uhmmmmm


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    #7680
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,248 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Could I ask the fg supporters here , if they support the outrageous welfare state. Free luxury apartments for those that would never vote for them. Why would I as am ex fg voter , vote for them ? What have they offered up to me except lies ?


    I would remind you again that my understanding is that the relevant Part V of the Act was introduced by an FF government, and that Dublin City Council is carrying out its statutory duty in implementing it.

    Quite what a caretaker government with no legislative powers is supposed to do about that is beyond me.


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    #7681
    efanton
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭efanton


    Bishop of hope wrote: »
    If you're a member of a party who refuses to condem the actions of a paramilitary organisation who blew up innocent men women and children because of their ethnicity or race then it's a bit rich to be giving out about racism I think.

    Personally I think that argument holds no water at all.

    I dont think anyone in SF would agree that any return to the troubles would be a good idea, nor is there any justification for any paramilitary organisation now.
    The paramilitaries came as a consequence of the people having absolutely no trust or faith in the police force or government that were supposed to protect them and treat them as equal citizens and not second class citizens to be openly discriminated against, a police force that was in of itself acting like a legalised paramilitary organisation.
    Bu it has to be borne in mind that the reason why the troubles lasts far far too long was the reluctance to allow the communities that the paramilitaries claimed to represent a seat at the table, the ability for them to actually do politics. Once that happened the paramilitaries on both sides disappeared and lost relevance pretty quickly. Was the deliberate discrimination against Catholics and nationalists not as bad as racism, if not indeed a form of racism?

    What is happening in the USA has many comparisons. When the police force and government openly discriminate against sections of the population then violence is inevitable. If the government or the police do not represent the people then bad things start happening and sadly that has been repeated throughout history but the lesson is never learned.

    If you dont give people, or marginalised groups within the people a seat at the table for what ever reason there will inevitably be a resort to violence and non democratic means. Rather than just condemn those that turn to violence when they feel they have no other means of being heard, surely you should also be condemning those that refuse to give them a seat at the table or treat them as equals. Why did the Irish government sit idly by when Catholics were having their home burned down and forcible evicted by mobs, why did the Irish government sit idly by when young men were being interned and put in prison without being charged or convicted of any crime.

    I'm not excusing any of the atrocities that were committed by either side, but to a large extent the politicians in this country and the UK must be equally held responsible through their inaction to try address the injustice and deliberate discrimination, and indeed the people that sat and watched it all on TV but pretended it was nothing to do with them.

    Thank God we had men brave enough to seek an alternative like Seamus Mallon, John Hume, Gerry Adams and indeed to a very large extent Garret Fitzgerald who was brave enough to risk condemnation (both political and public) and push for the peace process. I have never really liked FG or what they stand for but I will always have huge admiration for Garret Fitzgerald. All four of them should have won that Nobel peace award.


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