Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

tudderone · 15-07-2020 12:47am

Cass wrote: »

Ya gotta love the internet at times.

https://www.facebook.com/dermot.mcenroe/videos/3101551113246914/?__tn__=%2CdC-R-R&eid=ARAfCC4Kv_0PDSMT8ZJj4BddkE56VJMzvFtTC6_S2XXG-VHW9VilVA8bi367Lb6sp9JxP9mekbQ5JuhO&hc_ref=ARRNXmRnwk_2yOGgKWe674bQx2QjzEL2Rgm1TiBG8FRlE6W7sYf9nZXwPbgbuBRC3_k&fref=nf

Cannot see that cass, no fb account.

tudderone · 15-07-2020 12:49am

tonysopprano wrote: »

Paschal's first decree as new EU finance minister

He was always a drip. When you see some of the people from here, tinpot county councillors most of them, suddenly running a continent of 450 million people, you know the end cannot be far away.

Mellor · 15-07-2020 2:45am

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Yeah it’s just that I didn’t expect them to be such push overs. By surrendering to your man they put themselves in a much worse position and if he wanted to, he could have killed them all.

I'm not sure what you expected to happen differently - assume that he had an extreme upper hand on one of them.
The hero drawing his sidearm taking out the suspect in a half second window that he gestures away from the hostage is stuff from movies.
In real life, with somebody's life in danger, there's literally no good moves.

And you are also right that it puts 4 lifes at risk. That's the trade off. Turn it into a shoot out, and the suspect most likely dies, along with 1 or 2 cops. Comply, and either zero or 4 cops die. It's a probability problem.

Grizzly 45 · 15-07-2020 1:12pm

Cass wrote: »

Ya gotta love the internet at times.

https://www.facebook.com/dermot.mcenroe/videos/3101551113246914/?__tn__=%2CdC-R-R&eid=ARAfCC4Kv_0PDSMT8ZJj4BddkE56VJMzvFtTC6_S2XXG-VHW9VilVA8bi367Lb6sp9JxP9mekbQ5JuhO&hc_ref=ARRNXmRnwk_2yOGgKWe674bQx2QjzEL2Rgm1TiBG8FRlE6W7sYf9nZXwPbgbuBRC3_k&fref=nf

Get a FB Content not available page??
Anything good?:)

Grizzly 45 · 15-07-2020 1:52pm

Mellor wrote: »

I'm not sure what you expected to happen differently - assume that he had an extreme upper hand on one of them.
The hero drawing his sidearm taking out the suspect in a half second window that he gestures away from the hostage is stuff from movies.
In real life, with somebody's life in danger, there's literally no good moves.

And you are also right that it puts 4 lifes at risk. That's the trade off. Turn it into a shoot out, and the suspect most likely dies, along with 1 or 2 cops. Comply, and either zero or 4 cops die. It's a probability problem.

The fact that it was first off a four to one encounter,on a call of an armed suspect in cammo clothes armed with a bowand arrow,and a large knife.Should have immediately put these cops on DEFCON 1 going into that situation.

Even with the suspect co operating with one officer.What were and where the other three doing and standing in a potetentially dangerous situation?? Was anyone watching this guys body langauge? His hands?Where he was reaching? For what?It literally sounds like they were swinging their dicks and not paying any attention to what was happening? With a potentially armed suspect? Complacency kills you!

It turns out that this guy has form with the police already,is a suspected kiddy fiddler,and was evicted from his lodgings and living rough for the last month or so and had apprently been reported by his landlord for building a shooting gallery in the attic. iOW this guy already had some form and should have been tingling "spidey senses" already
Bit of situational awareness would have prevented this mess.

tudderone · 15-07-2020 2:01pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It turns out that this guy has form with the police already,is a suspected kiddy fiddler,and was evicted from his lodgings and living rough for the last month or so and had apprently been reported by his landlord for building a shooting gallery in the attic. iOW this guy already had some form and should have been tingling "spidey senses" already
Bit of situational awareness would have prevented this mess.

Overtones of the Dunblane killer there, bells should have been ringing in someones head.

Feisar · 15-07-2020 3:11pm

I'm sure those four police have dealt with hundreds if not thousands of weirdos between them. They got caught on the hop as can happen anyone. We never hear about all the other situations they resolved peacefully. Microscope is on this one though. I would like to know the protocol in place for approaching someone like that, I would doubt it's weapon in hand, especially when he offered up the bow and spear. However what was the need to the four to approach? Two in, two hanging back, it's easier to react if one is outside the situation in effect plus never show yer full hand!
As regards body language oddballs can be hard/impossible to read. I'm no expert however I spent college working in pubs, you learn to read people.

Grizzly 45 · 15-07-2020 3:44pm

They are not "anyone" they are supposedly highly trained police officers entering a potentially dangerous situation, which would suggest being 100% on your toes and being alert to possible sht going down. If you want to see how quickly this can happen to watch the YT video of the shooting of that black lad who grabbed the cops taser in the US a few weeks ago.For 15 minutes this guy ,while clearly drunk or drugged presented no thret and acted friendly,in the last five mins he goes completely crazy.

Its utterly irrevelant how many peaceful resolutions they have done.
They were going into an armed encounter,and its a totally differnt mindset required from the get go than to a routine traffic stop.But that situation kills more US police officers than anything else. And we are then surprised why US cops are so jittery and itchy on the trigger? Exactly,why wwere three of them not paying attention or positioning themselves to react if this guy made a move on them is a question that will need to be answerd.

Feisar · 15-07-2020 4:57pm

Not really arguing with you as such, I'm not qualified in any shape or form to. The first answer to the question of how this happened that springs to mind is that they are not highly trained.

tudderone · 15-07-2020 5:55pm

Feisar wrote: »

Not really arguing with you as such, I'm not qualified in any shape or form to. The first answer to the question of how this happened that springs to mind is that they are not highly trained.

But they are carrying firearms, so maybe they should be.

Feisar · 15-07-2020 5:56pm

tudderone wrote: »

But they are carrying firearms, so maybe they should be.

No argument there.

Cass · 15-07-2020 6:49pm

tudderone wrote: »

Cannot see that cass, no fb account.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Get a FB Content not available page??
Anything good?:)

Sorry lads, it's this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb5q9Te9e1c

tudderone · 15-07-2020 7:05pm

Cass wrote: »

Sorry lads, it's this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb5q9Te9e1c

Thats brilliant

Grizzly 45 · 15-07-2020 7:18pm

We seriously need a laughing emoji here on boards.

Grizzly 45 · 15-07-2020 7:34pm

Feisar wrote: »

Not really arguing with you as such, I'm not qualified in any shape or form to. The first answer to the question of how this happened that springs to mind is that they are not highly trained.

By and large German cops are very well trained,esp in de-escalation and firearms usage,in the fact that they have a bi or Tri-monthly qualification, depending on what Federal state they are in, and have a set system of when they can draw their personal sidearms and how they must issue one verbal warning before opening fire. They all carry Mace and stun guns and batons as less-lethal options as well.As well as a pretty good Jiu-jitsu training

Its all useless of course,if you and your partners are all not paying full on attention as to whats going on,and thinking of the nice beer and chat with the Fraulien in the bar after your shift is ending,or picking their nose and looking at the scenery,or answering a text from the missus about getting home soon as your bratwurst and saurkraut is getting cold.
After all it's just this mad lad,who lives out here in the forest and put his bow and arrow away and is having a chat with Hans,bit quare him but harmless...and OH FUK HE HAS A...GUN and has it stuck in Hans es ear!!! How the FK did that happen???

Feisar · 16-07-2020 8:46am

Fair enough, I'm usually slow to pass judgement on people as I'll never be in a situation like that. However when you put it like the above it would appear Deiter and the boys fecked up!

Mellor · 16-07-2020 1:21pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The fact that it was first off a four to one encounter,on a call of an armed suspect in cammo clothes armed with a bowand arrow,and a large knife.Should have immediately put these cops on DEFCON 1 going into that situation.

I was talking about this situation specifically, More so how easily if would be to disarm multiple people’s if you get the hop them.
I don’t know the details of this particular guy, the report, history etc. All hugely relevant to the level of alertness the cops should have had, as you pointed out.

Obviously in Ireland the average cop doesn’t carry a firearm. Maybe in German firearm carrying cops are highly trained, I’ve no details. But I think it’s a massively error to consider police forces where they carry a side arm by default as highly trained. Elite units sure. But there’s also a large amount they receive only basic training. And not just in firearms. How often do we see cops falling over each other trying to restrain someone. A serious boost in grappling training is needed for average beat cops.

Mellor · 16-07-2020 1:43pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

By and large German cops are very well trained,esp in de-escalation and firearms usage,in the fact that they have a bi or Tri-monthly qualification, depending on what Federal state they are in, and have a set system of when they can draw their personal sidearms and how they must issue one verbal warning before opening fire. They all carry Mace and stun guns and batons as less-lethal options as well.As well as a pretty good Jiu-jitsu training

That sounds like that are definitely ahead of the curve.
I had read a bit about German jiujitsu before. Developed from Japanese styles in 20th century. Strong association with police.
No short of effective grappling styles out there. Just need to put in the time. Which means continued training after graduation and just lift weight or a bitta GAA.

tudderone · 16-07-2020 5:10pm

What a spanner.

https://www.facebook.com/100008754378665/posts/2256801741288283/?d=n

tudderone · 16-07-2020 7:20pm

America has sleepy Joe Biden, We've got sleepy Eamon Ryan. In any job i know, you fall asleep on the company time.............you're sacked.

Cass · 16-07-2020 8:57pm

€145,000 plus expenses, per year, for this turnip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWW6h6nixP4

tudderone · 16-07-2020 9:27pm

Cass wrote: »

€145,000 plus expenses, per year, for this turnip.

If you nod off in your job what would the gaffer say ? Anywhere i worked it would be "Get the fcuk down the road". What a tit :mad:

Cass · 16-07-2020 9:52pm

Lets have a quick recap of the last two weeks:

Roderic O'Gorman (Greens) - Paedophilia scandal
Barry Cowen (FF) - Drink driving
Pat Buckley (SF) - Drink driving, although less publicised for some reason
Eamon Ryan (Greens) - Falling asleep twice
Senators - Cost of the senate, and expenses, at over €3,200,000 with only 6 sittings this year
Regina Doherty (FG) - Senate seat though she campaigned for it's abolition

Have i missed anything?

tudderone · 16-07-2020 10:01pm

Aodhan O'Riordan campaigned against the senate too and still took a seat there. Ryan was also going on about praising and meeting Peter Tatchell, do a google search about him !

BattleCorp · 16-07-2020 10:02pm

Cass wrote: »

Lets have a quick recap of the last two weeks:
Roderic O'Gorman (Greens) - Paedophilia scandal

Barry Cowen (FF) - Drink driving

Pat Buckley (SF) - Drink driving, although less publicised for some reason

Eamon Ryan (Greens) - Falling asleep twice

Senators - Cost of the senate, and expenses, at over €3,200,000 with only 6 sittings this year

Regina Doherty (FG) - Senate seat though she campaigned for it's abolition

Have i missed anything?

I think the Roderic O'Gorman thing is blown out of all proportion. He knows a nonce. That's about the extent of the scandal. He hasn't campaigned for paedophilia to be made legal nor has he supported paedophilia as far as I'm aware.

Regarding Eamon Ryan, I'd have been sacked if I fell asleep twice in work.

Cass · 16-07-2020 11:01pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I think the Roderic O'Gorman thing is blown out of all proportion. He knows a nonce. That's about the extent of the scandal. He hasn't campaigned for paedophilia to be made legal nor has he supported paedophilia as far as I'm aware.

You're absolutely correct, on the content of it, but the "scandal" comes from his response, or lack of.

He did not come out and say something along the lines of "i knew/know him having met him X time(s), but don't support any of his writings, nor do i condone anything he has said".

Instead he came out with "you're all right wing nuts, attacking me because i'm gay".

No one, at least no one with a brain, attacked him because of his sexuality. Hell we had a gay Taoiseach so that line about him being gay is a deflection.

It's his silence on the matter, his deflection and refusal to condemn Tatchell's writings/viewpoints on what is paedophilia.

This brings us back to the hate speech laws they were/are trying to bring in. If such laws existed he could claim, as he did, that it was hate speech to criticise him and have any dissent removed.

tudderone · 16-07-2020 11:29pm

Cass wrote: »

This brings us back to the hate speech laws they were/are trying to bring in. If such laws existed he could claim, as he did, that it was hate speech to criticise him and have any dissent removed.

This is very dangerous, but watch, they'll get them in :mad:.

Mellor · 17-07-2020 6:10am

Cass wrote: »

You're absolutely correct, on the content of it, but the "scandal" comes from his response, or lack of.

He did not come out and say something along the lines of "i knew/know him having met him X time(s), but don't support any of his writings, nor do i condone anything he has said".

Instead he came out with "you're all right wing nuts, attacking me because i'm gay".

His response was a crap. But it was a "scandal" before he commented. The fact that he is expected to a response is a bit ridiculous. It's a guy he met and had a photo taken with. Where is the implied support for everything this person has every said.
I'd be more concern about actual public figures openly supporting convicted pedophiles, than misrepresenting others.

No one, at least no one with a brain, attacked him because of his sexuality. Hell we had a gay Taoiseach so that line about him being gay is a deflection.

I don't think that claim holds much water. Consider the amount of homophobic abuse Leo cops. Gay marriage may have passed by landslide, but there's still a sizable minority who have a problem with homosexuality.

Not going to suggest that these are people with a brain as you say.

It's his silence on the matter, his deflection and refusal to condemn Tatchell's writings/viewpoints on what is paedophilia.

I haven't read Tatchells writings, other than what was quoted recently. I've a feeling the the quotes are highly edited, but I don't which way they are being twisted.

Regardless, O'Gorman should have distance himself an walked away. Instead he reference Tatchell's clarification when he didn't need to.

This brings us back to the hate speech laws they were/are trying to bring in. If such laws existed he could claim, as he did, that it was hate speech to criticise him and have any dissent removed.

I don't think that's correct. Hate speech laws would prevent personal abuse dues to somebodys race/sexuality/etc. But it would make anyone immune to valid criticism. Claiming otherwise doesn't matter.

Boards has an an attack the post, not the poster rule. Personal abuse is removed. Anyone can claim a poster disagreeing is attacking them. But if it's not valid it would be removed my mods.
Or at least that's how it should be.

excludedbin · 17-07-2020 12:45pm

Cass wrote: »

You're absolutely correct, on the content of it, but the "scandal" comes from his response, or lack of.

He did not come out and say something along the lines of "i knew/know him having met him X time(s), but don't support any of his writings, nor do i condone anything he has said".

Except he did.

https://www.thejournal.ie/roderic-ogorman-reject-peter-thatchell-5142524-Jul2020/

“I met Peter Tatchell once and took a photo. That was the only time I have met him,” the minister said.

“I knew of him as someone who stood up for LGBT people in countries where their rights were threatened. I was surprised to read some quotes from the 90s, which I had not read before.

“Any of those views would be completely abhorrent to me. I’m glad to see he’s clarified and explained that what is being alleged isn’t his view.”

Instead he came out with "you're all right wing nuts, attacking me because i'm gay".

Well that much, at least, is true. Look at the abuse Katherine Zappone received before him. And it was the National Party that manufactured this controversy, who are far right nuts. I don't know about you but I'd say turning up with pictures of nooses to a protest against him, on the back of lies by the same people, is pretty damn dangerous (and nutty) and shouldn't be allowed.

Grizzly 45 · 17-07-2020 12:55pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I think the Roderic O'Gorman thing is blown out of all proportion. He knows a nonce. That's about the extent of the scandal. He hasn't campaigned for paedophilia to be made legal nor has he supported paedophilia as far as I'm aware.

Regarding Eamon Ryan, I'd have been sacked if I fell asleep twice in work.

Its not that,its the double standards being applied by the PC woke mob. Were it a right wing chacter standing within 500 meters of a fiddler.The PC taliban would be screaming for blood and their head and deplatforming. Remember what happened to Jordan Peterson when he was seen with some yoke wearing a "proud to be a denier" or somthing upsetting to the woke mob T shirt? Or Milo Yannanopulis,gay and right wing,who said somthing on the issue of underage sex in one of his interviews or books .

Pretty much the same thing Sen David Norris said about how he wished he had been seduced by an older man about six years ago and not a peep about it,because well,he's a Leftie..

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County