Dec 2015 — Today DG GROW presented the proposal presented to EU parliament.

It was a first small victory for us. So many politicians have been contacted by our followers that they really read the proposal and asked interesting questions.

They did not connect terrorism with legal gun ownership.
They asked why EC did not made rules for deactivated guns as demanded by the Parliament in 2008, but waited until 2015.
They asked for the intention of the proposal.
They asked what will happen with legally acquired guns which EC wants to ban.
They asked for statistical data of misuse with legal guns.
They asked for liberty and freedom.

The battle is not over and won yet, they'll try again, but "our guys" are not giving up, and FIREARMS UNITED is vigilant!

You will find a link to the whole meeting on FIREARMS UNITED page in Facebook, also some highlights and a short clip.

We can tell you that Pierre DELSAUX, Deputy Director General, DG Grow, do not know anything about weapons. He really thinks that 3 rounds mean 31 bullets (at 2:27:38). And he doesn't know anything about gun crime. He really thinks every year 1000 people are murdered with legal guns. (some minutes later) We know from national criminal statistics and studies that between 3% and 22% were legal, mostly the (ex-) partner. You cannot stop partner killing by banning guns.

Last week the initiator of this petition Stijn Van Damn gave FIREARMS UNITED the petition as we have a team and he trust us. We hope you will trust us, too.

And please don't think we have won: inform your local politician, your parliament and MEP about the real facts. We have to persuade more than 370 MEPs to reject this proposal. You can see real facts on FIREARMS UNITED's homepage and open "Important Links".

yubabill1 wrote: »

RALMFAO.



If Enda had brains he'd be dangerous, as his party is the most right-wing mainstream party in Ireland.

In a parrallel universe maybe.This lot wouldnt know Left or Right wing if it popped out of the Dail jacks and bit them on their backsides! What we have here is PRETENCE of being Right or Left in Ireland not a strict adhesion to doctrine.
But then a people get the govt it deserves Ben Franklin once said.After flying his kite in a thunderstorm.

Translation is a bit jerky,but well worth reading.


Dear colleagues,

As I write to you from the Czech Republic, I would first ask you to allow me to introduce my country.

In our republic the possession and carrying / guiding of firearms is lawful and guaranteed by law, as long as you, is of age and legally competent righteous. A firearms license is a "target rule", is to say, anyone who meets these requirements given by the law, has the right to grant this permission.

The approval of a Category B firearm must be granted to same way as the approval, may carry concealed these weapons. We possess handguns, we use them for target shooting, and we carry them for self-protection. We have semi-automatic rifles with a military appearance, we shoot in various sporting disciplines and competitions, and we train with them, if our beloved homeland needs citizens to defend this. Our hunting tradition extends well over a millennium back in our history, and our sports shooters rarely return without medals from Olympics home.

Our country is also the zehntsicherste country in the world (according to the Global Peace Index). Our violent crime rate is low (160 per 100,000), and the crimes with firearms are almost non-existent (5.8 per 100,000). In addition to Switzerland, whose tradition of belief in freedom, democracy and independence, we estimate consisting of high, our Republic stands as an example that only the strong will, the belief and the belief of the people needs that these values ​​are not negotiable, armed to a country and its population, to hold peaceful and free.

I am sure you are aware of the current situation. In response to the terrorist attacks in Paris that took place with already prohibited fully automatic weapons (and definitely illegal explosives), wants us to pretend, the European Commission, to protect the citizens of the European Union, by restricting the possession of legal weapons massively.

Among other things, the following restrictions are provided: the ban on semiautomatic firearms that are reminiscent in appearance of automatic weapons - which is a ban on weapons that were not used in the attacks in Paris, but from weapons that many of the military defense States are imported; the prohibition of firearms and semiautomatic firearms deactivated to decorative purposes (ie rendered useless as weapons) were, but remember in the appearance to automatic weapons; all the collections Decorative Weapons such would thus be illegal, with the possible exception of collections in museums, but this would be compelled to further disable its exhibits exceedingly irretrievably, thus permanently destroying its historical and cultural value; the prohibition or the reclassification of all other disabled firearms, accompanied by blank firing weapons, signal weapons, paintball and airsoft replicas and so on Category C firearms that would requires a permit so.

The Commission expects all Member States, these directives and instructions actually to be enforced - for Besipiel collect all thus prohibited firearms, to confiscate and destroy / scrap - for all this, the EU budget should, however, not be affected, which in turn means, that the individual Member States are forced even to pay for the compensation that would be incurred by the confiscation, or there is an expropriation without compensation.

Here I would like to entertain me with hunters and Olympic shooters. In the words of the European Commission itself: "We call for a ban on highly hazardous semiautomatic weapons in private ownership. The other semi-automatic firearms that are used to hunting and sporting purposes, must remain in the possession of individuals continue but subject to an authorization. "

In other words, the Commission would like that You say, "Wow, what luck - they do not come to take away my weapons!"

But please think it, just as it began with the draconian gun laws in England 1987: ban on semi-automatic weapons with a military appearance, because "it's not a sport weapon, it is not a hunting weapon. No one needs something. "I think that this example (be and many others to follow) very accurately illustrates how this politically incorrect" Black Rifles "are abused as a buffer before it a complete ban your hunting or sporting rifle and your pistol comes. Once only is the "Black Rifle" out of the way, you're next in line.

But I am convinced that hunters and marksmen are honorable and honest people who respect the law and regulations and are ready for their and the rights to stand on the other - and to throw not only quislings that to be pleased others before the wolves , as the European Commission might be right.

None of the above prohibitions and restrictions could have prevented the massacre in Paris.

But there is a loophole in the European Firearms Directive, a loophole that has allowed the terrorists to equip themselves with weapons that are prohibited for the private citizen for a long time. The European Commission claims that the firearms that were used in the massacre in Paris, neither were purchased as a legal fully automatic or semi-automatic weapons, yet they were smuggled from outside the EU, but they were bought as disabled Decorative Weapons and due to faulty deactivation standards they could be easily reactivated by the terrorists and to their original state.

However, this is contrary to the European Firearms Directive: Here is clearly described that deactivated firearms must be placed in an unhealthy state irreversibly.

Member States would have to adapt and implement the methods exactly to prevent this kind of events. But a certain country decides that it is sufficient to drive two steel pins through the barrel, which obviously was not enough. By the firearms policy was causing a common minimum consensus was found to deactivate weapons and implement would be to ensure that deactivated firearms actually will irreversibly unusable.

And the department whose duty and responsibility it was to make these common requirements for commitment and to assess their implementation and to ensure was ... the European Commission.

Yes, you read that right. Check it out yourself - DIRECTIVE 2008/51 / EC, Article 1/13 states:

"The Commission shall, in accordance with the procedure referred to in Article 13a paragraph 2 of the Directive, common guidelines for deactivation standards and techniques to ensure that deactivated firearms are permanently inoperable."

In the next paragraph we read:

"Member States shall bring the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive, not later than 2010 on 28 July in force. They shall forthwith communicate the text of those provisions.

When adopt these measures, Member States in this Directive or to this Directive accompanied by such reference on their official publication. The Member States shall determine how such reference.

This means that in five years, the Commission was aware of the problem and did nothing. Just last week, the Commission has hastily presented the new guidelines, thus boasting that they could thereby prevent another massacre - in the hope that people would overlook the fact that even the massacre in Paris could have been prevented if the Commission does not over five years knowingly their legal obligations would have neglected!

To our knowledge, the Commission is determined to impose its plans at any cost and as soon as possible. If we want to stop these plans, we need every vote.

What can you do?

Contact your interior minister and justice minister, and please ask them to express their doubts about the directive, pointing out that the sole unifying deactivation standards will have a positive impact on the security situation, while the rest of the new draft only a violation of the rights of law-abiding representing citizens.

Contact your Members of the European Parliament and beg you to contradict the directive, for the reasons mentioned above.

Just join the weapons law associations. Remember: It does not gun owners to support this important civil rights.

Should the proposal of the Directive yet to be enforced, would be willing to disobey. Yes. If the Commission intends to punish law-abiding citizens, not only for terrorist attacks and Crimes, but also for their own negligence, incompetence and inability to carry out their lawful duties, then we have every right to stop trying to be law-abiding, and peaceful but decided "no" to say. We are neither criminals nor terrorists. We are honest people who own guns to protect our lives, the lives of our loved ones and our country.

We have the moral right and the obligation to defend ourselves against such acts of injustice. I firmly believe that we prevail in the end, if we unite us rise up against this bureaucratic oppression.

On behalf of the LEX - The Czech Association for the Protection of weapons legislation,

David Karásek, spokesman

Translation from English by Melissa Burkhard.

OzCam wrote: »

Sorry, what I meant was that if the Directive says "semi-automatics" then that's all semis. There can't be an exemption in one Member State for a particular calibre because the Directive will be the new minimum standard. Or am I reading it incorrectly?

Correct on all counts! It would be EU law and there are no exemptions then.
all I can say is Thank whatever Gods there might be,that the very heavy lifter countries in this campaign have had the cop on not to try and exclude anyone from their groups.Even airsofters and paintballers are in this one ,with no one trying to cut deals on the side ,or are niave enough to think they can.Even Sweden and Finland hve had to modify their "we only want them for our military reserveists" stance,after a good lot of their reserveists threatned to resign!! Switzerland,Iceland are affected by this too, you dont have to be a full EU member apprently.Just signing up to Shenigen affects your country on these matters. Good luck EU with telling the Swiss to pony up their SIGS .:P

No more excuses. Heres a post card you can print off and give to your friends and fammily and gun club members who eshrew modern technology but want to support us or are just to lazy:rolleyes:
Print it out ,get them to sign it,and mail it . Feck it! Even provide the frakin PEN if you must.:eek:

820 have signed the petition sofar in Ireland.We were beaten by Luxembourg and Lithunia last week.Yet we are above Canada!!:eek::).
Mad stuff Ted!Surely we can beat them next week??If we try??

N ope! But its intresting to read thhe exact same almost pro forma reply from them all.:rolleyes:

Mr Ming seemingly has a bit of computor problems.He was asked as to why he hadnt replied on one of his FB threads today, and he apologised for not responding and thought his secetary had replied to this already.All within 10 mins of it being asked on FB.Kudos to the guy, whatever he is and whether he is pro or anti on this issue ,at least he makes the effort to keep it on a common touch.Something that cant be said for a lot of those gobaloons in Brussells.:rolleyes:

[Emphassis mine]

Germany has no tolerance for EU arms law tightening
DTS NEWS AGENCY
Saturday, December 19 2015 08:22 GMT
The Federal government slows down the planned tightening of the EU Firearms Directive. This emerges from a confidential report of the German representation in Brussels for the mainstream press, "Der Spiegel".
There German representative announced in an internal meeting of the EU member states, that they will implement the planned stricter rules governing the possession and sale of weapons to individuals at the earliest within two years. The European Commission would like, however, that this is already happening within three months after entry into force of the Directive.
At the meeting the German representatives also criticized the planned Brussels ownership ban for particularly dangerous-looking semi-automatic weapons that resemble weapons of war and therefore can spread more fear.
The mere "similarity to certain types of weapons is not a criterion which is applicable in practice", quoted the German representatives in the report. Since EU member states like the Czech Republic, Austria and Finland criticize the details of the reform, the draft directive should be corrected.
Officially informed the competent federal ministry, they had no "final positioning" to the reform, but wanted to "actively participate in the deliberations."

https://www.facebook.com/1512949822332469/photos/pcb.1518348195125965/1518348175125967/?type=3



Someone knows their stuff about our fkd up laws! And they pose a very good question that should be posed at the FCP,whenever that get 's going...

Why does a odd ,and rather uncomfortable stock that once people have played around with it for awhile and got bruised shoulders or strained wrists and doesnt perceptibly shorten a minimum lenghth 24 in barrel shotgun by much either.You are still not going to hide it under your coat,unless you are over 6'5" and are buit like Schwarzenegger Which they wil proably dump in their spare parts box and go back to "normal shaped " gunstocks very quickly,be treated as somehow especially dangerous?

Well it's that time of year again.This time last year we were suffering major apprenhensions as to what the new year would bring us in legislation in Ireland. All in all we emerged out the other side alot better than we expected.But that chapter is still unfinished! There is an election next year in the more or less accepted centenary year of our nations birth in 1916.Now it seems we have a greater challange from a organisation that while it might have brought us great good ,has also the potential to bring us greater harm in our day to day lives as Irish citizens. Idont know about you ,but I owe NO loyalty to the EU flag.I didnt elect any of these people and I think we all know whats better for our own good than some Italian and Swedish Socialist or British Tory with agendas.

The good thing is this struggle is..WE ARE NOT ALONE. This involves all of the shooting sports ,the countries that trust their citizenery to posses arms for self defence,the EU arms manufactures,the shooting organisations,some if not pro gun media outlets at least willing to print our unabridged side of the story. Its a formidiable sleeping giant that the gun banners have awoken in the EU,and it is despite best efforts of ignoring the facts not just "sports shooters" but all firearms related fields from airsoft to blank firing pistol makers to concealed carry owners to defence policies of two EU nations.This affercts everyone who owns a "gun" in the EU,and already thetr have been sneaky attemptd to say especially in the UK organisations like the CPSA "oh leave our semi auto .22s alone theres a good chap,as we dont have any nasty semi auto CF rifles."

Be under NO illusion your ruger 10/22 is at much of a risk as my .308 semi auto is.As is your .22 handgun and 3 shot Benelli with a odd shaped buttstock. 850 Irish people have signed this petition sofar...To them Thank you for standing up to this gun grab.To the rest of those who havent signed....Whynot?
It is a shame that our national organisations after doing such good are now at loggerheads again while this greater threat faces us.I ask again for everyone to consider that with a greater crisis facing us.WHERE IS THE LEADERSHIP being displayed by people who want your authorithy and money to repersent you at either national govt level or EU level at the current minute??Leadership requires that you lead and not rely on past deeds or that you have a nice face or personality.Has anyone of any of our organisations made much comment on the EU situation?Demanded a position statement from the govt on this?Or asked you as individuals or clubs to lobby like last year?? Next year is supposedly a year of change...It is up to us to make the changes if we are not happy with our lots.
Wishing you all and your fammlies a happy christmas ,yule ,or whatever you are having yourselves and a peacefuland prosperous new year.
Grizzly 45.

goz83 wrote: »

I am very new....in fact, so new to this, that I don't have a firearm yet. However, what I have noticed in this very short period of time is that there is very much a defensive attitude to firearms, rather than a pro-active movement.

It is very much a reactive behaviour here in Europe and most definitely in Ireland, where the USA seem not only to vehemently defend their "rights" and any pro-gun legislation, but they seem to actively lobby their politicians to reverse prohibitive gun laws.

Don't get me wrong. I certainly wouldn't want laws and legislation where a child can go into the local Londis, or Gala and buy a rifle. But it would be nice (imo) to be able to own proper pistols, rather than those restricted to 22cal.

I do agree with controlled licensing and each firearm should be licensed to one owner with the usual "joint use" being allowed when licensed. But there is a better way of doing this. Currently, you have to go find a firearm, get the serial number and details of the seller and then apply for a license and wait. I believe it would make more sense to categorise firearms according to their type, calibre and muzzle velocity (or whatever criteria) and each person can apply for a license of that category. If approved, the person should be able to go purchase any firearm in that category and have the chosen firearm added to the license when purchased from the seller. The seller is responsible for entering the firearms details and previous cert number onto the buyers new category license and the buyer must register the purchase within 24 hours (or other reasonable time limit) in their local Garda station. This would be a life line for RFDs who currently have to hold deposits and stock for consumers, often for months at a time.

Welcome aboard to the club.
To give you a few pointers...
1] Dont bother comparing anything here in Ireland or the EU to the USA. From a pro or anti viewpoint ,its like comparing a blue whale to a door mouse.Especially with firearems.They have over est 350 million plus known guns for about 280 million Americans,and just bought on Black Friday last enough guns in ONE day to reequip the entire US Marine Corps and had enough left over to resupply two full army divisions.:eek: Imagine if our minister for justice had to deal with us suddenly buying in all +/- 250 thousand of us about 8guns each in one day to get a comparison.

2] Contary to much erronious belif.You cant as a "child" [thats 18 in US law],diddy bop into any store and buy a gun and toddle off with it without violating about a dozen Federal,state and local laws.Nor can your parents buy you one and leave you off with it either.The Charleston church shooters parents are in deep water because of that sort of carry on.He would have to have been 21 for even laegal possesion of a handgun.

3] We dont have this right in the EU.In the US its constitutionally enschrined as a basic fundamental citizens right.It's been argues backand forward for about 180 years by some of the finest legal minds on both sides of the pond as to what a simple two sentence means,and the majority of times it comes down to an individual right to keep and bear arms. The nearest EU country to the US in gun laws would be the Czech Republic with concealed carry and full auto possesion[in limited capacity]

4] The only reason is that it is reactive here and in Europe is we havent the time and manpower and money to counter and push back like the NRA does.Although they are reactive too most of the times.They just have an exellent 100% fit&able grass roots lobby network ,who phone,email,and lobby and keep it up non stop.Compared to some of the special intrest groups in DC.The NRA is actually a pip squeak group financially compared to the billions anti gun Blomberg is pumping into campaigns.Even the anti gun groups admit they wish they as dedicated people in their grass roots as the pro gun people.
have.However,I think thats going to change next year with Firearms United and others in the EU.

As for your liscense points.FFD Do you want to confuse the poor AGS completely with that hig falautin talk and terminology??:D Not to mind rebuild the entire PULSE system?
Simpler way would be. go away and do a proficency course in safe handling of all types of firearm groups ,shotgun,rifle ,pistol. There isnt that much of a difference. in the main groups of learning the difference. Go away and prove need for a firearm.IOW target pistol shooting,cF or .22 in a recognised club should be enough "good reason" for anyone.
Likewise deer hunting or bird hunting or busting clays. Then give you say the right to own five firearms of every type on your liscense straight away.5 handguns,5 rifles,5 shotguns and 5 restricted firearms of the 3 above categories.If you want more in one cat than other you have to lose one to gain one or make an exceptional good reason as to why you want 6 in a particular category. This BTW could all be done on smart card technology and transacted at a dealer,rather than in an AGS paperwork office.But it isnt a state pirority and they arent oing to do it,so we are stuck with what we have at the moment. hopefully with the FAAA and FCP coming on line [maybe] in 2016 things will be streamlined abit in the future.The system isnt bad here,its just jammed by those not knowing with no intrest being in charge.