General Star Trek thread

Sleepy · 28-04-2021 12:19pm

Can't check on my android and honestly, don't want to!

nyarlothothep · 28-04-2021 10:25pm

Rewatching DS9 and on the last season. It's really apparent DS9 set a new direction that was sadly not taken up. The episode Rocks and Shoals really set the tone, adult Trek basically, which is not to say that any previous Trek was not "grown up" but it just had a heavier but nuanced atmosphere. This is what I really enjoy about it, it's not trying to be "edge lord dark" but the themes are substantial. In addition, controversial opinion perhaps but I don't think The Visitor is the companion piece to The Inner Light, instead it's Far Beyond The Stars, which is equivalent to The Inner Light in terms quality. Avery Brooks' overacting actually works in the nervous breakdown scene. Also the idea of Sisko being a kind of demi god, given that one of the prophets essentially birthed him, kind of makes DS9 similar to Dune with the epic implications, it could be Dune Trek in a way. I'd like to see future Trek have those kind of wild ideas as opposed to just "war" and "grim dark".

Rawr · 29-04-2021 7:04am

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Rewatching DS9 and on the last season. It's really apparent DS9 set a new direction that was sadly not taken up. The episode Rocks and Shoals really set the tone, adult Trek basically, which is not to say that any previous Trek was not "grown up" but it just had a heavier but nuanced atmosphere. This is what I really enjoy about it, it's not trying to be "edge lord dark" but the themes are substantial. In addition, controversial opinion perhaps but I don't think The Visitor is the companion piece to The Inner Light, instead it's Far Beyond The Stars, which is equivalent to The Inner Light in terms quality. Avery Brooks' overacting actually works in the nervous breakdown scene. Also the idea of Sisko being a kind of demi god, given that one of the prophets essentially birthed him, kind of makes DS9 similar to Dune with the epic implications, it could be Dune Trek in a way. I'd like to see future Trek have those kind of wild ideas as opposed to just "war" and "grim dark".

Rocks and Shoals is a favorite that I'll often revisit. It's a war story, but it's full of very good Trek drama. From the fun levity of O'Brien's fatal clothing rip, to the corruption of Keevan, to the fatal dedication of the Jem Hadar. They even had a great B-Plot with Kira realising that she had become something she herself hated in the past. Really good writing there.

Evade · 29-04-2021 9:42am

Rawr wrote: »

Rocks and Shoals is a favorite that I'll often revisit. It's a war story, but it's full of very good Trek drama. From the fun levity of O'Brien's fatal clothing rip, to the corruption of Keevan, to the fatal dedication of the Jem Hadar. They even had a great B-Plot with Kira realising that she had become something she herself hated in the past. Really good writing there.

And the "cadet, there may be hope for you yet" scene is great too.

breezy1985 · 29-04-2021 10:18am

Rawr wrote: »

Rocks and Shoals is a favorite that I'll often revisit. It's a war story, but it's full of very good Trek drama. From the fun levity of O'Brien's fatal clothing rip, to the corruption of Keevan, to the fatal dedication of the Jem Hadar. They even had a great B-Plot with Kira realising that she had become something she herself hated in the past. Really good writing there.

I always really like O'Briens military back story and the episodes that dealt with it in some way.

Same goes for Kiras backstory

nyarlothothep · 29-04-2021 9:37pm

I rewatched The Passenger as I had completely forgotten about it. Aside from the absolutely laughable evil Bashir acting (which needs to be on YT for appreciation) and the cack plot, I noticed season 1 DS9 lighting is way harsh. That's another thing I appreciate about the later seasons, the chill out mellow vibe lighting. Also a good few of the shots seem to be out of focus or washed out, even compared to TNG at the time which had footage quality on par with later seasons of DS9 (as far as I remember).

corkie · 29-04-2021 10:42pm

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Oh Boy by Buddy Holly

https://youtu.be/wU256cGwMHM?t=109 <<< Private SNAFU - Booby Traps (1944)

Star Trek Enterprise Meets Quantum Leap

TheValeyard · 05-05-2021 9:29pm

Some reports have Picard filming season two and three back to back.

breezy1985 · 05-05-2021 9:30pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

Some reports have Picard filming season two and three back to back.

Ya one of the cast twittered it I think

AMKC · 05-05-2021 9:39pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Ya one of the cast twittered it I think

I heard it was Q aka John De Lancie.

TheValeyard · 05-05-2021 10:26pm

AMKC wrote: »

I heard it was Q aka John De Lancie.

Clicked his fingers and two seasons done

Kiith · 06-05-2021 10:41am

I still haven't watched Picard. Not sure what is putting me off it. Watched 2 of them, and just wasn't feeling it.

And i really don't like the idea of Q coming back. All Good Things was such a good way to end that ark, and i'm not sure i trust them to not **** it up.

breezy1985 · 06-05-2021 11:10am

Kiith wrote: »

I still haven't watched Picard. Not sure what is putting me off it. Watched 2 of them, and just wasn't feeling it.

And i really don't like the idea of Q coming back. All Good Things was such a good way to end that ark, and i'm not sure i trust them to not **** it up.

But All Good Things wasn't the end. The trial never ends

Kiith · 06-05-2021 12:29pm

Yeah i know, but still. I just hope they can do it justice.

_Kaiser_ · 10-05-2021 4:27pm

Kiith wrote: »

Yeah i know, but still. I just hope they can do it justice.

Unfortunately, much like season one, it's likely to leave a sour taste I expect. It's still the same crew behind it as Discovery after all.

I won't be surprised if Q makes him "a real boy" again though.

Evade · 10-05-2021 5:49pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Unfortunately, much like season one, it's likely to leave a sour taste I expect. It's still the same crew behind it as Discovery after all.

I won't be surprised if Q makes him "a real boy" again though.

I read some alleged spoilers that should be taken with a mountain of salt but if true it'll be very bad.

Rawr · 11-05-2021 11:22am

I'm living in some hope of Picard Season 2 being at least ok. But that hope is alas quite small.

Much of that hope is based on the slim possibility that they have learned from their mistakes and will try to write a better ending to this season compared to the mess they made of the end of Season 1.

That all said...I thought Season 3 of Discovery was going to be a proper soft-reboot of the series with corrections made to their mistakes. Instead they doubled down on all those mistakes and made the show barely worth watching.

I do also fear that a good season of Picard may be beyond the talents of Secret Hideout....unless maybe CBS is leaning on them to be less crap this time....

breezy1985 · 11-05-2021 12:34pm

I can't wait for months of people who definitely will not like the new season of Picard coming on to forums to tell everyone how they really "hope they do it justice" or whatever.

Evade · 11-05-2021 3:00pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

I can't wait for months of people who definitely will not like the new season of Picard coming on to forums to tell everyone how they really "hope they do it justice" or whatever.

You know a lot of the people who don't like the current iterations of Star Trek actually do want them to be good right?

Evade · 11-05-2021 3:01pm

I've been playing along with this for the last few minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko0fKuy8z2U

ilovesmybrick · 11-05-2021 3:14pm

Evade wrote: »

I've been playing along with this for the last few minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko0fKuy8z2U

That's pretty good. Delighted with myself for knowing almost all the answers, then slightly sad about myself knowing all the answers!

Evade · 11-05-2021 3:21pm

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

That's pretty good. Delighted with myself for knowing almost all the answers, then slightly sad about myself knowing all the answers!

Same I only missed some TOS and Riker's dad's name.

breezy1985 · 11-05-2021 4:52pm

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

That's pretty good. Delighted with myself for knowing almost all the answers, then slightly sad about myself knowing all the answers!

I was the best of nerds I was the worst of nerds

nyarlothothep · 11-05-2021 10:38pm

Rawr wrote: »

I'm living in some hope of Picard Season 2 being at least ok. But that hope is alas quite small.

Much of that hope is based on the slim possibility that they have learned from their mistakes and will try to write a better ending to this season compared to the mess they made of the end of Season 1.

That all said...I thought Season 3 of Discovery was going to be a proper soft-reboot of the series with corrections made to their mistakes. Instead they doubled down on all those mistakes and made the show barely worth watching.

I do also fear that a good season of Picard may be beyond the talents of Secret Hideout....unless maybe CBS is leaning on them to be less crap this time....

Not sure about laying the blame on just one person but Alex Kurtzman is apparently responsible for a lot of this hack writing and he's been pretty dismissive of what Trek used to be. I think the only solution would be to replace all the writers with Ronald D Moore, even if he went on another BSG trip with plans that weren't plans, mystical angels and cave people, it would still be better than this desecration of Trek.

DS9 was the way to go printed in bright neon letters. Rewatching it, it accomplishes everything Picard and STD sought to do yet failed. It is dark without being in your face, the characters and world are alive and it doesn't sacrifice these things for the "cool plot with all those twists that I just came up with" which is a staple of modern Hollywood blockbusters. Honestly STD and STP are more akin to Marvel movies in this respect. I only remember Section 31 from STD being a lame, clandestine superhero agency, in DS9 they're like the CIA from the Parallax View, genuinely creepy and downright eerie when compared to the Tal Shiar or Obsidian Order. They show humans up as absolutely the most dangerous and nastiest species in the quadrant. Sloan is like if Anton Chigurh was a spy, he is simply operating on another level. The episode where he uses Bashir to get Koval installed on the Continuing Committee was brilliant for this reason. And from Bashir's perspective it put me in the vibe of "being way in over your head", just like the paranoid, anxiety inducing atmosphere of the Parallax View. Contrast that with STD where it's just crash bang wallop followed by tedious plot exposition. DS9 is high art compared to these shows which pass for Trek.

I notice this with other shows. The Witcher tries to be Game of Thrones but goes immediately for the big set pieces, tedious plot exposition, excessive, shouty drama. Altered Carbon Season 2 failed because the writers disappeared up the proverbial of their own plot exposition at the expense of the characters. Further to that, the casting decisions are getting more and more vanilla. Why is Worf such a great character? Because Michael Dorn is a unique actor, no one will ever be Worf except Dorn. Ditto for Nog. Aron Eisenberg was a phenomenal actor and unconventional and he nailed that role. They need to hire less conventional actors and get strange and/or not quintessentially "Hollywood" people involved, even that would be an improvement; case in point, many a mediocre film was saved by Christopher Walken being Christopher Walken. I think it's not just a problem with Trek as a franchise but an industry wide one which Trek is operating in and has adapted to.

odyssey06 · 12-05-2021 8:16am

Norman Lloyd has died at the age of 106.

He played Professor Galen in Next Generation episode The Chase.

He is probably best known to television audiences for playing Doctor Daniel Auschlander on the drama series St. Elsewhere from 1982 through 1988.

Rawr · 12-05-2021 10:38am

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Not sure about laying the blame on just one person but Alex Kurtzman is apparently responsible for a lot of this hack writing and he's been pretty dismissive of what Trek used to be. I think the only solution would be to replace all the writers with Ronald D Moore, even if he went on another BSG trip with plans that weren't plans, mystical angels and cave people, it would still be better than this desecration of Trek.

Excellent post. I am still operating under the sneaking suspicion that Kurtzman was involved in Lower Decks in name only. Either due to apathy on his part, or orders from CBS. It has all the trappings of a show run by Trek fans, and Kurtzman kind of comes across as a Star Wars "fan" (if at all) who was handed a Sci-fi franchise because someone probably thought "...you know, Star Trek? Star Wars? What's the difference? Make us a space-show Alex."

Part of my hope is that somehow CBS has paid attention to the fan reception to Lower Decks and will make Kurtzman's absence from productions a rule for all of the Trek shows under his name. It might go some way to improve a second season of Picard. But as you wrote, the whole industry at the moment kind of lends itself to the problems of current Trek. There's still talent out there, but it seems to be buried under an awful lot of hacks.

TheValeyard · 12-05-2021 10:51am

I think its something a great deal of tv land is suffering from at the moment. They are afraid to take a chance or go down the quirky road. Much more likely to play the diversity game. Quirky characters suit certain roles brilliantly and you cant imagine anyone else playing them that way.
Like Heath Ledgers Joker, or even Peter Falk as Columbo, could not imagine anyone else in that role. And its something we will probably see again in like the 2009 Trek reboot, I felt the new cast did a great job in very well known roles.

H3llR4iser · 12-05-2021 10:59am

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

That's pretty good. Delighted with myself for knowing almost all the answers, then slightly sad about myself knowing all the answers!

Yeah I knew about 90-95% of these.

On the other hand, I'm in a Star Trek based gaming organization and sometimes we have "Trivia nights". The lady who prepares the questions is...let's say another level entirely. She manages to find all these trivia facts that NOBODY freaking remembers, but once you hear the answer you go "ahhhh cr@p, yes!" even remembering the specific scene(s).

A Discord full of ST nerds, and there've been nights where 2 or 3 out of 20 questions were answered correctly

breezy1985 · 12-05-2021 1:28pm

Rawr wrote: »

Excellent post. I am still operating under the sneaking suspicion that Kurtzman was involved in Lower Decks in name only. Either due to apathy on his part, or orders from CBS. It has all the trappings of a show run by Trek fans, and Kurtzman kind of comes across as a Star Wars "fan" (if at all) who was handed a Sci-fi franchise because someone probably thought "...you know, Star Trek? Star Wars? What's the difference? Make us a space-show Alex."

Part of my hope is that somehow CBS has paid attention to the fan reception to Lower Decks and will make Kurtzman's absence from productions a rule for all of the Trek shows under his name. It might go some way to improve a second season of Picard. But as you wrote, the whole industry at the moment kind of lends itself to the problems of current Trek. There's still talent out there, but it seems to be buried under an awful lot of hacks.

That's not a sneaking suspicion it's well known he had nothing to do with it other than having his name on it as exec producer of all CBS Trek. Its created by a guy named Mike McMahon who was involved in Rick and Morty.

Kurtzmann is going nowhere sadly as a the shows have been very popular so new Disco was the same as before and new Picard probably won't change much from season 1. Whatever about Disco I have given up there but I was happy with Picard if you just cut the silly big evil robot ending

Need a Username · 12-05-2021 3:13pm

Rawr wrote: »

Excellent post. I am still operating under the sneaking suspicion that Kurtzman was involved in Lower Decks in name only. Either due to apathy on his part, or orders from CBS. It has all the trappings of a show run by Trek fans, and Kurtzman kind of comes across as a Star Wars "fan" (if at all) who was handed a Sci-fi franchise because someone probably thought "...you know, Star Trek? Star Wars? What's the difference? Make us a space-show Alex."

Part of my hope is that somehow CBS has paid attention to the fan reception to Lower Decks and will make Kurtzman's absence from productions a rule for all of the Trek shows under his name. It might go some way to improve a second season of Picard. But as you wrote, the whole industry at the moment kind of lends itself to the problems of current Trek. There's still talent out there, but it seems to be buried under an awful lot of hacks.

Yes Lower Decks does have have all the signs of being written by fans which is why it is terrible and not funny.

AMKC · 12-05-2021 4:15pm

Need a Username wrote: »

Yes Lower Decks does have have all the signs of being written by fans which is why it is terrible and not funny.

I disagree. Out of the 3 series that have started over the last few year Lower Decks is my favourite and the most Star Trek. It is the one that has the most respect for the franchise we know and love from TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
Discovery has been a disaster and Picsrd held such promise but then failed to deliver. Hell they could not even at least but them on a proper trek ship. It did not have to be a big ship it could have been on Obert class or a Runabout for all zimI cared as long as it was Trek but what did they do the took a ship from some games franchise and said that will do. Can't think of the games now only ever played the first one and did not get that far in it maybe someone here knows the game. :P

Stark · 12-05-2021 4:17pm

Well they stole the finale scene from "Mass Effect" I think? (Not much of a gamer so might have the name wrong).

breezy1985 · 12-05-2021 4:44pm

The finale and ship designs both had a Mass Effect feel and even some of the sound effects.

A guy named Eaves does all the ships now and his artistic style is the basis for all the Star Trek Online ships and I think Ent-E which are full of Mass Effect angles and colouring. With the odd exception they look like the kind of "wow cool" crap I would have drawn as a 10yo

Need a Username · 12-05-2021 5:16pm

AMKC wrote: »

I disagree. Out of the 3 series that have started over the last few year Lower Decks is my favourite and the most Star Trek. It is the one that has the most respect for the franchise we know and love from TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
Discovery has been a disaster and Picsrd held such promise but then failed to deliver. Hell they could not even at least but them on a proper trek ship. It did not have to be a big ship it could have been on Obert class or a Runabout for all zimI cared as long as it was Trek but what did they do the took a ship from some games franchise and said that will do. Can't think of the games now only ever played the first one and did not get that far in it maybe someone here knows the game. :P

Well I also disagree. It is just not funny.

My criticism of the Picard ship is that they never gave us a proper look at it outside and the technology is too advanced - it should be more beat up and used. The Millennium Falcon of Star Trek. Now it has “fix any problem” gadget. Other than that a great Star Trek show and very imaginative to move away fro a Starfleer ship.

Cookie_Monster · 13-05-2021 4:39am

Need a Username wrote: »

Well I also disagree. It is just not funny.

My criticism of the Picard ship is that they never gave us a proper look at it outside and the technology is too advanced - it should be more beat up and used. The Millennium Falcon of Star Trek. Now it has “fix any problem” gadget. Other than that a great Star Trek show and very imaginative to move away from a Starfleet ship.

ENT was not a starfleet ship, nor was DS9. Hardly imaginative or original.
why should that ship be anything like the MF of star trek? It's just a random ship that we have no reason to care about, like a shuttle craft or similar.

Picard was not as bad as DIS but I'm also in no hurry to rewatch, it was very poor overall with a total mess of a plot that was all over the place.

And for the record LD is hilarious.

breezy1985 · 13-05-2021 8:31am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ENT was not a starfleet ship, nor was DS9. Hardly imaginative or original.
why should that ship be anything like the MF of star trek? It's just a random ship that we have no reason to care about, like a shuttle craft or similar.

Picard was not as bad as DIS but I'm also in no hurry to rewatch, it was very poor overall with a total mess of a plot that was all over the place.

And for the record LD is hilarious.

Ya on a technicality ENT was not Starfleet because there was no Starfleet yet but everything about it was "Starfleet" on show and in design and production. DS9 the same really

La Sirena crewed by civilians and a few former Starfleet and has no background crew which is a first for Star Trek

And LD is hilarious

pixelburp · 13-05-2021 9:12am

Lower Decks' humour was not best in class when it comes to sitcoms, animated or not. I laughed and found it a funny show but a great many jokes also fell flat, or just came off merely OK. And being wrapped up in the Trek mythology, wouldn't be a comedy I'd recommend to everyone.

The character writing was top notch though, and like all good comedies, remembered to inject proper humanity and relatability into its cast. In fact, it's a reasonable comparison to note that both it and Discovery have main characters who are almost impossibly talented (with parents who are big cheese in the Federation); yet Lower Decks had the smarts to make her a rounded character who would fight the expectations of her status through being an intentional fúck-up and waster. None of this "my god it's sooooo emotional" overwrought writing Discovery is trapped into.

The holodeck episode, while a fun bag of easter eggs for those familiar with Trek movies, was - legitimately - some of the best character writing in a Star Trek TV show since the heyday of DS9. Mariner fighting a literal manifestation of a different version of herself was just *chefs kiss*

JayRoc · 13-05-2021 9:24am

pixelburp wrote: »

Lower Decks' humour was not best in class when it comes to sitcoms, animated or not. I laughed and found it a funny show but a great many jokes also fell flat, or just came off merely OK. And being wrapped up in the Trek mythology, wouldn't be a comedy I'd recommend to everyone.

The character writing was top notch though, and like all good comedies, remembered to inject proper humanity and reliability into its cast. In fact, it's a reasonable comparison to note that both it and Discovery have main characters who are almost impossibly talented (with parents who are big cheese in the Federation); yet Lower Decks had the smarts to make her a rounded character who would fight the expectations of her status through being an intentional fúck-up and waster. None of this "my god it's sooooo emotional" overwrought writing Discovery is trapped into.

The holodeck episode, while a fun bag of easter eggs for those familiar with Trek movies, was - legitimately - some of the best character writing in a Star Trek TV show since the heyday of DS9. Mariner fighting a literal manifestation of a different version of herself was just *chefs kiss*

Good post.

I agree that while I ended up enjoying LD a lot, I never found it particularly funny, definitely not laugh out loud funny.

But the work they put into the characters, along with the constant gentle, irreverent-but-clearly-coming-from-an-affectionate-place sending up of all the various Star Trek tropes and cliches, made it for me.

Sad Professor · 13-05-2021 11:35am

breezy1985 wrote: »

Ya on a technicality ENT was not Starfleet because there was no Starfleet yet but everything about it was "Starfleet" on show and in design and production. DS9 the same really

As I recall, the Ent-nx was a Starfleet but not Federation ship. Starfleet predated the Federation.

Evade · 13-05-2021 11:40am

Sad Professor wrote: »

As I recall, the Ent-nx was a Starfleet but not Federation ship. Starfleet predated the Federation.

It was.

It was for too much like a Federation era Starfleet ship for me. Because of that it kind of implies all Federation Starfleet ship designs are mostly derived from human technology as opposed to a big collaborative effort.

Sad Professor · 13-05-2021 12:10pm

Evade wrote: »

It was.

It was for too much like a Federation era Starfleet ship for me. Because of that it kind of implies all Federation Starfleet ship designs are mostly derived from human technology as opposed to a big collaborative effort.

Perhaps but doesn't that kinda make sense given that most Starfleef personnel on the shows are human?

Stark · 13-05-2021 12:28pm

There was a fan theory that suggested there are ships with majority Vulcan crew, majority Andorian crew etc. due to the practicalities of each species having different environment preferences. Though I would have expected to see ships with style influences from the Vulcan and Andorian ships shown on Ent in the big TNG and DS9 battle scenes if that was the case.

pixelburp · 13-05-2021 12:32pm

It's also a good job all those Federation species are bipeds; no need for species neutral consoles, chairs, doors... toilets?

Evade · 13-05-2021 12:44pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Perhaps but doesn't that kinda make sense given that most Starfleef personnel on the shows are human?

Not really. Presumably the Federation Starfleet would want to incorporate the best technologies from all member races but because NX Enterprise has all the visual cues of the 24th century ships (red impulse engines aside) it implies that the race with the least space faring experience just happened to create the best technology.

If, for example, NX Enterprise had a brownish hull, purple warp nacelle glow, yellow bussards, and white phasers and then throughout the series you see that the Vulcan ships had blue nacelle glow and red bussards, Andorian ships had orange phasers, and Tellarite ships had greyish hulls in a primary/secondary configuration it would retroactively make the Federation Starfleet ships look much more like a collaboration.

Evade · 13-05-2021 12:45pm

pixelburp wrote: »

It's also a good job all those Federation species are bipeds; no need for species neutral consoles, chairs, doors... toilets?

Most of them have a common ancestor. There's a TAS character with three arms and legs.

pixelburp · 13-05-2021 12:46pm

Evade wrote: »

Most of them have a common ancestor. There's a TAS character with three arms and legs.

That noise you hear in the background is the Canon Police on their way to have words with you

Niska · 13-05-2021 12:51pm

pixelburp wrote: »

It's also a good job all those Federation species are bipeds; no need for species neutral consoles, chairs, doors... toilets?

Well, except for Cetacean Ops.

Evade · 13-05-2021 12:54pm

pixelburp wrote: »

That noise you hear in the background is the Canon Police on their way to have words with you

TAS was recanonised for some reason.

breezy1985 · 13-05-2021 2:53pm

pixelburp wrote: »

It's also a good job all those Federation species are bipeds; no need for species neutral consoles, chairs, doors... toilets?

Enterprise D had a Cetacean Ops

Stark · 13-05-2021 2:56pm

Have to use all that space for something I guess.

General Star Trek thread

Comments