General Star Trek thread

Cookie_Monster · 21-01-2021 8:45am

GSPfan wrote: »

If Star Trek Enterprise had a more normal intro in the same vein as TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager do you think it would have been received better by fans at the time?

let me just ruin this for you...

cant unwatch it, cant watch it and not be phased every intro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUiDc6pOfxw

21-01-2021 9:50am

AMKC wrote: »

You might have liked the original theme that was intended for it then,

https://youtu.be/JtWT-H3XQGI

I find your lack of Faith (of the Hert) disturbing

Stark · 21-01-2021 11:44am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

let me just ruin this for you...

cant unwatch it, cant watch it and not be phased every intro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUiDc6pOfxw

That was actually quite interesting. I'll probably end up watching the Voyager intro on the lookout for super tiny planet now rather than skipping it

To be fair, I've often noticed ships on Star Trek looking far too big compared to adjacent planets. If you went for full realism, you just wouldn't be able to get the ship and the planet in the same frame without the ship being too small to see.

Also found the DS9 and Voyager generally very bland. TOS had the Kirk voiceover. TNG had a whole lot going on: Picard's voiceover, upbeat orchestra, 80's blue font, woosh-woosh Enterprise and "Also starring Levar Burton"

I've warmed quite a bit to Enterprise's intro over the years, seems like an attempt to reclaim the TOS sense of adventure into the unknown while doing something new.

AMKC · 21-01-2021 12:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I find your lack of Faith (of the Hert) disturbing

There is a few more intros for Enterprise on You-Tube too.

Like I said already I like the one it was giving. I liked it at the beginning and still like it now.

GSPfan · 22-01-2021 12:15am

To be honest I’m a fan of the minimum intro on some shows. There was a time there about 10+ years ago where intros became very short. Examples I can think of are Lost, Heroes, Stargate Universe.
Then I think Netflix lead the way in bringing back the long intro and turned it into an art form. One of the best ones is Daredevil. That tune is still my ringtone on my phone.
And of course Game of Thrones was an absolute masterpiece. I’m loving the intro to The Expanse. Even though I’m binge watching episodes I don’t skip the intro.

I hate Discovery’s intro. Didn’t really like Enterprises.

pixelburp · 22-01-2021 12:22am

IIRC Lost was the show that popularised the short intro. Boom, title card, let's do it. As you say Netflix and HBO brought them back but as legitimate pieces of art and creativity than the hokey cast montages of previous eras (though there's a soft spot for the McGuyver intros of this world). Critically, you can only "skip intro" after the first episode of shows on Netflix and Amazon I think? So especially with those more elaborate intros, it's good to watch them once but not every time either. Hmmm might spin up a thread in the TV forum of great TV intros cos they can just look so good.

It's kinda the same with films too TBH. Fashions that come in waves. Watch any old black and white flick and you gotta be ready for 5 minutes of credits _at the start_ (fun slightly related fact, Night of the Living Dead is a public domain film because someone forgot to put the copyright symbol in the title card. Back then in the 60s, that was legally binding, and so it stuck, the film now a non-copyright work. Whoops!)

breezy1985 · 22-01-2021 12:34am

pixelburp wrote: »

IIRC Lost was the show that popularised the short intro. Boom, title card, let's do it. As you say Netflix and HBO brought them back but as legitimate pieces of art and creativity than the hokey cast montages of previous eras (though there's a soft spot for the McGuyver intros of this world). Critically, you can only "skip intro" after the first episode of shows on Netflix and Amazon I think? So especially with those more elaborate intros, it's good to watch them once but not every time either. Hmmm might spin up a thread in the TV forum of great TV intros cos they can just look so good.

It's kinda the same with films too TBH. Fashions that come in waves. Watch any old black and white flick and you gotta be ready for 5 minutes of credits _at the start_ (fun slightly related fact, Night of the Living Dead is a public domain film because someone forgot to put the copyright symbol in the title card. Back then in the 60s, that was legally binding, and so it stuck, the film now a non-copyright work. Whoops!)

Wasn't it Star Wars that was the first big movie to not have opening credits. Got George Lucas kicked out of some big film makers guild

AMKC · 22-01-2021 1:00am

GSPfan wrote: »

To be honest I’m a fan of the minimum intro on some shows. There was a time there about 10+ years ago where intros became very short. Examples I can think of are Lost, Heroes, Stargate Universe.
Then I think Netflix lead the way in bringing back the long intro and turned it into an art form. One of the best ones is Daredevil. That tune is still my ringtone on my phone.
And of course Game of Thrones was an absolute masterpiece. I’m loving the intro to The Expanse. Even though I’m binge watching episodes I don’t skip the intro.

I hate Discovery’s intro. Didn’t really like Enterprises.

I like Enterprises intro but have never liked Discovery's but the show is a mess anyway. It will get one more chance from me and the fourth season is as bad that's it I am done with it.

breezy1985 wrote: »

Wasn't it Star Wars that was the first big movie to not have opening credits. Got George Lucas kicked out of some big film makers guild

You are probably right.

Me I like good intros to films and at T.V series. It shows a lack of imagination when they do not have any. As much as I do not like Disoverys one at least they had some imagination just not in the right style.

Cookie_Monster · 22-01-2021 1:14am

AMKC wrote: »

Me I like good intros to films and at T.V series. It shows a lack of imagination when they do not have any. As much as I do not like Disoverys one at least they had some imagination just not in the right style.

whatever about in the past, intros are a bit redundant in an era where people binge watch multiple episodes back to back.
I do like that netflix's option to skip intro on most series now

breezy1985 · 22-01-2021 10:05am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

whatever about in the past, intros are a bit redundant in an era where people binge watch multiple episodes back to back.
I do like that netflix's option to skip intro on most series now

I watch them once or once a season on shows where it evolved and then skip the rest

Justin Credible Darts · 22-01-2021 1:18pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

whatever about in the past, intros are a bit redundant in an era where people binge watch multiple episodes back to back.
I do like that netflix's option to skip intro on most series now

hate to break it to you, but we were fast fowarding that in the time of videos.

Even when kids watching the sunday matinee, we would be getting the cup of tea while the credits were rolling.

nyarlothothep · 25-01-2021 2:25pm

Did anyone notice in the Barclay transporter episode that Riker is a massive dick to Barclay? When Barclay determines that there is a serious fault with the transporters he alerts the senior staff. He finds this out by exposing himself to his greatest fear repeatedly after getting attacked by the microbe thing in a cruel twist of fate. All Riker can do is roll his eyes as Barclay gives his explanation. Worf, the giga-Chad, who you'd expect to laugh at Barclay is actually respectful and takes him seriously. Once Barclay's discovery is confirmed does Riker show him an inch of sympathy? No! Barclay requests he perform the experiment with Geordi, despite being traumatised by his transporter experience and Riker brusquely grants it while pointing his finger in Barclay's face, giving a little passive aggressive anticipatory reprimand "take all the necessary precautions". You don't say Riker? Here is a man who has transporter phobia, has been attacked by an alien creature in the transport stream, has weird radioactive contamination in his arm and you need to remind him to play it safe because you think he'll forget? A little bit of tact and understanding wouldn't go amiss.

There are other instances of Riker being a bullying, overbearing pompous ass to his subordinates (unless he wants to have sex with them), the lower decks episode is one example if I remember correctly. I can grant his posturing with Shelby as those overly-ambitious, try to upstage you types are insufferable but otherwise, Riker is supremely petty with lower ranks. Data would have made a better XO.

pixelburp · 25-01-2021 6:50pm

So just saw a mention in passing about Kate Mulgrew's involvement in the animated Academy show, and given the success of Lower Decks ... I wonder. Is Trek going to slowly pivot towards being a predominantly animated show?

Between CoVid causing real problems to location shoots, the greater expense of live-action TV anyway - and just the overall better reception of the animated shows - part of me's theorising that CBS / Paramount might start to slowly kill off its live-action projects in favour of cartoons. Or, probably not, but kinda got me thinking all the same.

breezy1985 · 25-01-2021 7:13pm

pixelburp wrote: »

So just saw a mention in passing about Kate Mulgrew's involvement in the animated Academy show, and given the success of Lower Decks ... I wonder. Is Trek going to slowly pivot towards being a predominantly animated show?

Between CoVid causing real problems to location shoots, the greater expense of live-action TV anyway - and just the overall better reception of the animated shows - part of me's theorising that CBS / Paramount might start to slowly kill off its live-action projects in favour of cartoons. Or, probably not, but kinda got me thinking all the same.

Lower Decks was to tap into the adult cartoon scene which is pretty strong and Academy is a nickelodeon show for younger people so not unusual.

There is more DIS, Picard to come plus Strange New Worlds and Section 31 so live action doesn't look to be going anywhere

25-01-2021 7:26pm

pixelburp wrote: »

So just saw a mention in passing about Kate Mulgrew's involvement in the animated Academy show, and given the success of Lower Decks ... I wonder. Is Trek going to slowly pivot towards being a predominantly animated show?

Between CoVid causing real problems to location shoots, the greater expense of live-action TV anyway - and just the overall better reception of the animated shows - part of me's theorising that CBS / Paramount might start to slowly kill off its live-action projects in favour of cartoons. Or, probably not, but kinda got me thinking all the same.

I hope not. As bad as Discovery and Picard have been, I have zero interest in their place being taken by jokey animated shows. Lower Decks is atrocious.

a_squirrelman · 25-01-2021 7:31pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I hope not. As bad as Discovery and Picard have been, I have zero interest in their place being taken by jokey animates shows. Lower Decks is atrocious.

Ah now, Lower Decks is savage.

pixelburp · 25-01-2021 7:35pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Lower Decks was to tap into the adult cartoon scene which is pretty strong and Academy is a nickelodeon show for younger people so not unusual.

There is more DIS, Picard to come plus Strange New Worlds and Section 31 so live action doesn't look to be going anywhere

Has either section 31 or Strange New World's even started production yet though? Certainly the former seemed still in a weird maybe state of limbo. And presumably Picard has a much more limited shelf life in any case for more obvious, real world reasons...

breezy1985 · 25-01-2021 7:38pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Has either section 31 or Strange New World's even started production yet though? Certainly the former seemed still in a weird maybe state of limbo. And presumably Picard has a much more limited shelf life in any case for more obvious, real world reasons...

All stopped for Covid but they are happening barring a tragedy with Picard

ilovesmybrick · 25-01-2021 9:10pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I hope not. As bad as Discovery and Picard have been, I have zero interest in their place being taken by jokey animated shows. Lower Decks is atrocious.

I have to say, Lower Decks was the best of the three this year. Picard follows after with the same rating as maybe season three TNG, Disco might be rated somehwhere around first season TNG, at a stretch.

25-01-2021 9:14pm

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I have to say, Lower Decks was the best of the three this year. Picard follows after with the same rating as maybe season three TNG, Disco might be rated somehwhere around first season TNG, at a stretch.

I wouldn’t even have a spoofy cartoon in the same comparison as the proper shows. For me there were only two Star Trek series the past year, even if they were bad.

pixelburp · 25-01-2021 9:23pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

All stopped for Covid but they are happening barring a tragedy with Picard

As I'm reading it, section 31 was first announced back in Jan 2019; that was 1+ years before CoVid threw it's giant spanner, yet I can't see any concrete info this show was every really happening TBH. Bar that Terran episode to put Georghiu back into the past. I'd honestly stick my neck out at this stage, and say Section 31 won't happen. Not when between it and Strange New Worlds, the latter appears to have genuine fan goodwill behind it.

ilovesmybrick · 25-01-2021 9:31pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I wouldn’t even have a spoofy cartoon in the same comparison as the proper shows. For me there were only two Star Trek series the past year, even if they were bad.

Each to their own. I was initially incredibly dubious of the concept of Lower Decks, but for me it got the right balance of reverance to the source material, while pulling the piss out of some of the nonsense. I was engaged with Picard because of Picard as a character, I engaged with Lower Decks because I felt they took the obvious parts of Trek that we can pull the piss out off and made a great homage to it, while also developing characters in a way that I felt works in the universe. How the Barclay's can succeed in a world. all about high achievers. I can't say I engaged with Discovery in the same manner.

breezy1985 · 25-01-2021 11:49pm

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Each to their own. I was initially incredibly dubious of the concept of Lower Decks, but for me it got the right balance of reverance to the source material, while pulling the piss out of some of the nonsense. I was engaged with Picard because of Picard as a character, I engaged with Lower Decks because I felt they took the obvious parts of Trek that we can pull the piss out off and made a great homage to it, while also developing characters in a way that I felt works in the universe. How the Barclay's can succeed in a world. all about high achievers. I can't say I engaged with Discovery in the same manner.

Lower Decks final episode was way better than the other 2 cartoon or not.
No end of universe BS and some tough consequences in the end

Rawr · 26-01-2021 7:29am

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Each to their own. I was initially incredibly dubious of the concept of Lower Decks, but for me it got the right balance of reverance to the source material, while pulling the piss out of some of the nonsense. I was engaged with Picard because of Picard as a character, I engaged with Lower Decks because I felt they took the obvious parts of Trek that we can pull the piss out off and made a great homage to it, while also developing characters in a way that I felt works in the universe. How the Barclay's can succeed in a world. all about high achievers. I can't say I engaged with Discovery in the same manner.

Lower Decks was a silly cartoon. Lower Decks was also a stupid cartoon. But....Lower Decks was Star Trek. Which is the first time I could say with confidence for a long while. It was a fun show, and felt like it belonged in the same universe as the pre-Kelvin Trek shows. It felt like it was made by Star Trek fans, instead of a bunch of Star Wars likers who barely even know how that franchise works.

I have no problem counting a cartoon as Star Trek, especially if they do a good job. It's just frustrating / disappointing that the more expensive live-action shows do so poorly in comparison.

JayRoc · 26-01-2021 12:56pm

Rawr wrote: »

Lower Decks was a silly cartoon. Lower Decks was also a stupid cartoon. But....Lower Decks was Star Trek. Which is the first time I could say with confidence for a long while. It was a fun show, and felt like it belonged in the same universe as the pre-Kelvin Trek shows. It felt like it was made by Star Trek fans, instead of a bunch of Star Wars likers who barely even know how that franchise works.

I have no problem counting a cartoon as Star Trek, especially if they do a good job. It's just frustrating / disappointing that the more expensive live-action shows do so poorly in comparison.

The last episode of Lower Decks was ten times more Trek than any of the Discovery I watched

(Edit: and bear in mind I really, really didn't dig it at the start)

Goodshape · 26-01-2021 1:19pm

Rawr wrote: »

Lower Decks was a silly cartoon. Lower Decks was also a stupid cartoon. But....Lower Decks was Star Trek.

I just rewatched it all on Amazon Prime and this really holds true. It's silly hijinks – but it's silly hijinks in the Star Trek universe.

There's jokes and callbacks that tug constantly on your nostalgia cord but, in almost every episode, the setting and set-up is actually a really decent *new* Star Trek story that would be right at home in any of the TNG-era shows.

Mariner is a chore to put up with in those first three or four episodes but even that has a good pay-off.

JayRoc · 26-01-2021 2:54pm

Goodshape wrote: »

Mariner is a chore to put up with in those first three or four episodes but even that has a good pay-off.

It's funny because the experience of Lower Decks was, for me, the total opposite of watching Picard; Picard started really strong and had such potential...which I thought had been almost totally wasted by the time it ended.

Rawr · 27-01-2021 11:45am

JayRoc wrote: »

It's funny because the experience of Lower Decks was, for me, the total opposite of watching Picard; Picard started really strong and had such potential...which I thought had been almost totally wasted by the time it ended.

Same here. Lower Decks and Mariner herself grew on me over time, and by the time the season ended I was glad to have spent that time.

Picard had me excited at first. This almost felt like a big-budget continuation of the TNG world we remembered...but then over time you start to realise that it was really just a re-badge of a Discovery production with all of the writing problems associated with that other show. I finished Picard bitterly disappointed that my initial excitement for that show was mis-placed and that I would have been better off stopping a few episodes in, oblivious to how badly such a story could be handled.

One of these show deserves a rewatch...the other does not.

Johnny Storm · 28-01-2021 12:16pm

I just rewatched Picard ep 7 (meet the Rikers) and ep 8 (7 powers up the cube). I actually quite enjoyed them. I'm not saying they were perfect by any means but IMHO they are in a different league to Disco S3

pixelburp · 28-01-2021 12:24pm

Discovery is a weird, freewheeling show where even after all the chaos calmed down, Season 3 has struggled to cast off this idea of an ad-hoc production.

Picard felt like a show that, good or bad, it knew where it was going and what it wanted to do with its cast. And it HAD a cast, which is important: again, as divisive as (say) Rafi was, she still had an arc, background and a sense of who she was. Good luck divining any identity from Detmer, who really personified that shoulder-shrug of a structure.

Goodshape · 28-01-2021 1:39pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Picard felt like a show that, good or bad, it knew where it was going and what it wanted to do with its cast.

I agree they had a better cast of characters but I still feel they lost the run of the story more than once. The tone shifted from something more serious and "real" (insofar as it's still Star Trek) to just gratuitous nostalgia and then the usual meaningless universe-ending big-bad and deus-ex resolution, with off-the-wall fantasy "sci-fi" saving lives and resurrecting dead characters.

Same with Discovery, I just get the sense that somebody needs to properly plan these seasons and have the resolve to stick with it until the end.

Inviere · 28-01-2021 1:53pm

Johnny Storm wrote: »

I just rewatched Picard ep 7 (meet the Rikers) and ep 8 (7 powers up the cube). I actually quite enjoyed them. I'm not saying they were perfect by any means but IMHO they are in a different league to Disco S3

Save your judgement for the two part finale..... (Btw I was on board with Picard up as far as you've watched....it very quickly fell apart due to people writing the show who have no business doing do.)

pixelburp · 28-01-2021 2:34pm

Goodshape wrote: »

I agree they had a better cast of characters but I still feel they lost the run of the story more than once. The tone shifted from something more serious and "real" (insofar as it's still Star Trek) to just gratuitous nostalgia and then the usual meaningless universe-ending big-bad and deus-ex resolution, with off-the-wall fantasy "sci-fi" saving lives and resurrecting dead characters.

Same with Discovery, I just get the sense that somebody needs to properly plan these seasons and have the resolve to stick with it until the end.

I suspect Picard's cliff dive of quality was born from studio interference; that they insisted the finale was BIG & EPIC, when it was clear the story was a much more personal one - in being a functional retcon of Data's death. Next thing you know we had a bonkers apocalypse plot for no sane reason. The finale did give us space flowers, which instantly became a top 5 "Trek does cosmic exotica" moment.

Bobtheman · 28-01-2021 2:39pm

Stewart is too old at this stage for action shows. He is pushing 80.
I just thought the whole data story was too elongated and full of plot holes.
It's nostalgia at best
Discovery for better or worse is the new trek.

pixelburp · 28-01-2021 4:14pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

Stewart is too old at this stage for action shows. He is pushing 80.
I just thought the whole data story was too elongated and full of plot holes.
It's nostalgia at best
Discovery for better or worse is the new trek.

It wasn't 10 episodes of story, that's for sure, but I gave it a retroactive pass for trying to allow Data a more characterful send-off than "Nemesis" ever was.

As you say though, Stewart's just too old at this stage, so begs the question where the show goes given he's the titular character - yet the scripts made a point of giving it a full cast of characters. The obvious guess would be 7of9 takes over.

That does remind that of that truly stupid moment in Picard's finale (spoilered as some are still catching up):

Soong: "Great news Jean-Luc! We gave you a new body; your disease is cured!"
Picard: "Amazing, so I've been made young agai..."
Soong: "Oh wait. God no. We've made an exact copy of your old, frail body."
Picard: "Even though I'd be lamenting getting old and opportunities missed in life?"
Soong: "Exactly. I see nothing wrong here"
*somewhere in the Picard Writing Room*
Writer: A thematic arc? What's that, some kind of Romulan thing?

Obviously, done to keep Patrick Stewart available but that was such a chance missed for something really brave. It would have been divisive for sure, but kinda nuts in a good way too.

28-01-2021 4:23pm

Bringing back Tom Hardy...:pac:

breezy1985 · 28-01-2021 6:33pm

Discovery really feels like it was supposed to be a one season limited release for the 50yrs of Trek celebration that ended up more popular than expected and in true US fashion got milked beyond it's sell by date.

Too many TV shows start without knowing where they want to go which is why The Expanse is so good and GOT was during the book seasons

Goodshape · 08-02-2021 3:59pm

Major Grin cuts a good YouTube video, makes the point with archive interviews:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRxmkfD2X10

(the quick editing starts to get annoying but calms down after the first 5 minutes)

Bloody depressing what they've done to the thing.

breezy1985 · 08-02-2021 4:12pm

Goodshape wrote: »

Major Grin cuts a good YouTube video, makes the point with archive interviews:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRxmkfD2X10

(the quick editing starts to get annoying but calms down after the first 5 minutes)

Bloody depressing what they've done to the thing.

All that Genes vision crap is just as annoying as the people who think Discovery is the greatest thing ever.

That Titan scene at the start really is one of the stupidest plots in Discovery. Surely the human from Titan knows that he looks like a big scary alien with a robot voice and would take the helmet off when he is trying to communicate with earth

Goodshape · 08-02-2021 4:24pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

All that Genes vision crap is just as annoying as the people who think Discovery is the greatest thing ever.

I'd tend to disagree. What else have you got apart from that? Just another dystopian "sci-fi" action show.

breezy1985 · 08-02-2021 5:06pm

Goodshape wrote: »

I'd tend to disagree. What else have you got apart from that? Just another dystopian "sci-fi" action show.

I don't mind it being uplifting or humanity being better than we are today. I meant there are an awful lot of these youtube fellas or whatever who drone on about Genes vision. Discovery sucks but it ain't because Genes vision was molested and it certainly wasn't the first time some holes were put in the perfect future humans idea either.

Genes vision was for better humans but it was also for making sure Troi shows a bit of cleavage and mandatory push up bras for the rest of the ladies. Gene was no angel

Goodshape · 08-02-2021 5:11pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

I don't mind it being uplifting or humanity being better than we are today. I meant there are an awful lot of these youtube fellas or whatever who drone on about Genes vision. Discovery sucks but it ain't because Genes vision was molested and it certainly wasn't the first time some holes were put in the perfect future humans idea either.

Are you dismissing the video I shared or just 'an awful lot of these youtube fellas'? The only point the video makes is that it is no longer uplifting or showing humanity as any better than we are now.

Not sure what you're arguing against.

it was also for making sure Troi shows a bit of cleavage and mandatory push up bras for the rest of the ladies. Gene was no angel

That's a straw-man tbh

pixelburp · 08-02-2021 5:18pm

The problem is, Gene's vision came born from an era when nuclear annihilation was very much a real prospect (and came close to happening with incidents ala the Cuban Missile Crisis), while internally America was at ground zero of huge societal changes. The yearning for better days felt more acute given the immediacy of the danger - you counldn't Fake News your way into ignoring the possibility of WW3.

While the abstract of a Utopia isn't itself archaic, the idea of humanity pulling itself from the brink seems ... well, too late. We probably won't destroy ourselves via nuclear war but instead seem intent on a painful, slow bleed of the species through climate collapse, while Late State Capitalism has strangled any notion (at least in America) that ordinary people might create a better tomorrow. Meanwhile, factions have politicised something as simple as "let's not poison our only planet", so even acknowledging there IS A PROBLEM has become a battle. Turn off the cloud and we'd hit middle ages in a few years. It's no wonder Apocalypse Fiction took over.

Within that context, Trek's ideals feel positively quaint, and further away than ever. That's not to say it shouldn't be present in the show, just that it has never felt so distant IMO and I kinda get why its writers aren't leaping to scribble tales of Happier Times. Well, that's just me, today. The world may have finally ground me into the dirt

breezy1985 · 08-02-2021 5:25pm

Goodshape wrote: »

Are you dismissing the video I shared or just 'an awful lot of these youtube fellas'? The only point the video makes is that it is no longer uplifting or showing humanity as any better than we are now.

Not sure what you're arguing against.

That's a straw-man tbh

Im saying I can't listen to the Genes vision thing anymore and having to listen to Frakes in particular go on about it despite him being a Discovery writer bores me.

The Genes vision thing was thrown at Wrath of Khan and DS9 too and I think Discovery actually tries to do the Genes vision thing but like everything else it failed

Goodshape · 08-02-2021 6:07pm

pixelburp wrote: »

The problem is, Gene's vision came born from an era when nuclear annihilation was very much a real prospect (and came close to happening with incidents ala the Cuban Missile Crisis), while internally America was at ground zero of huge societal changes. The yearning for better days felt more acute given the immediacy of the danger - you counldn't Fake News your way into ignoring the possibility of WW3.

While the abstract of a Utopia isn't itself archaic, the idea of humanity pulling itself from the brink seems ... well, too late. We probably won't destroy ourselves via nuclear war but instead seem intent on a painful, slow bleed of the species through climate collapse, while Late State Capitalism has strangled any notion (at least in America) that ordinary people might create a better tomorrow. Meanwhile, factions have politicised something as simple as "let's not poison our only planet", so even acknowledging there IS A PROBLEM has become a battle. Turn off the cloud and we'd hit middle ages in a few years. It's no wonder Apocalypse Fiction took over.

Within that context, Trek's ideals feel positively quaint, and further away than ever. That's not to say it shouldn't be present in the show, just that it has never felt so distant IMO and I kinda get why its writers aren't leaping to scribble tales of Happier Times. Well, that's just me, today. The world may have finally ground me into the dirt

Trek's utopian ideals were born out of a world in despair but now that the world is in despair there's no room for utopian ideals?

pixelburp · 08-02-2021 6:16pm

Goodshape wrote: »

Trek's utopian ideals were born out of a world in despair but now that the world is in despair there's no room for utopian ideals?

No, more that we may have simply gone past the brink of mere despair. What do Utopian ideals offer when the world is already burning, and half its population either attack the teenager warning us, or go to great lengths to well-actually.

This could be the Monday talking so you might be best ignoring me

I'm not sure how you arrest a decline as abstract as environmental collapse.

Goodshape · 08-02-2021 6:30pm

Yeah, it's difficult -- but it's always been difficult. That's what made it great, and if it's more difficult today then that's just all the more reason I'd like to see it.

1000+ years in the future and still fighting over resources and shooting your way through problems. Another universe in disarray with trouble around every corner. We've all that to look forward to, I guess. Inspiring stuff it is not.

Might as well watch Star Wars. At least that has the good grace to pretend it's not *us*.

Wedwood · 08-02-2021 11:51pm

I’m old enough to remember the original Star Trek being described as ‘Wagon Train to the stars’. It imagined humanity had overcome issues like poverty, war and racism and this new enlightenment had enabled them to journey to the stars.

When you look around at the mess being made of our planet and it’s environment, Roddenberry’s vision of what’s required of humanity to have a good future is just as relevant today.

AMKC · 09-02-2021 5:43pm

Anyone else she the Star Trek Superbowl trailer? ,

https://youtu.be/3Z4epgwCePc

That's it there.

09-02-2021 6:59pm

What’s March 4th?

General Star Trek thread

Comments