General Star Trek thread

ForstalDave

Undiscovered county is great and i like wrath of khan and first contact. Generations is ok but it just seems overly complicated that he needed to blow up suns to get into the ribbon, i know there was a reason he couldn't fly into it but well 2 freighters and the enterprise B were abale to do it how else did Kirk end up there(also seriously go back like 2 extra days and arrest Soron when he was not about to fire a sun destroying missle)

Also i do like the idea that Picard never left the ribbon and his life is now a dream hence the planet of youth(his fear of getting old manifested) and fighting a clone of himself(fearing how he would have been if life was different) even works with first contact as it would would work with over coming his experience with the Borg

Beefy78

Indricotherium wrote: »

First Contact, along with Undiscovered Country are, by a significant margin, the best ST films.

I would go so far as to say they are the only st films that would stand up to any sort of critique, if I wasn't a fan of the ST in general.

If it wasn't so badly paced, I'd include the motion picture with them.

None of the others, involve any sort of story-line or conflict beyond big bad guy is mean.

First Contact openly explores character flaws in Picard, as The Motion Picture does for Kirk. I don't think that happens anywhere else.

The Undiscovered Country is superb from start to finish a thriller almost. Political intrigue the whole lot.

The Wrath of Khan?

That aside, I agree. TWOW has plenty of character work.

I enjoy Generations though. it might not be a great film if I wasn't a Trek fan but as said above it's a solid TNG episode.

IvySlayer

Insurrection was a TNG-like episode, you could tell they were at least trying unlike Nemesis

_Kaiser_

IvySlayer wrote: »

Insurrection was a TNG-like episode, you could tell they were at least trying unlike Nemesis

Indeed, by Nemesis it really came across as though they'd all given up and it was one last outing/paycheque for the TNG crew (who, in the words of Roger Murtagh, were "getting too old for this ****")

Even the way the characters and their interactions are portrayed is sloppy. OK we get that they're more a family in many ways at this stage, but that's the command crew - the way the Enterprise-E seems to be run is a far cry from the competent, professional-yet-close, atmosphere of the later TNG series.

Generations wasn't a bad film but suffered from trying to be a handover. First Contact was much better (even if the battle with the Borg Cube - till then the most deadly ship in the Quadrant - is over in a few minutes... Best of Both Worlds and The Emmisary Part 1 did a better job in many ways), and Insurrection holds up as a slightly-below-average two-parter. Nemesis though is a mess from start to finish.

Indricotherium

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Insurrection holds up as a slightly-below-average two-parter.

Yeah it has the odd bit of a laugh and you can sense there is a decent script in there somewhere.

It raises good questions about the federation as well. Janeway promoted for one. Starfleet British empiring a planet of primitives seemingly with some sort of Federation sanction is another.

The_Valeyard

The one good thing about Nemesis is the introduction of the Remans.

Indricotherium

The_Valeyard wrote: »

The one good thing about Nemesis is the introduction of the Remans.

It's the last film?

SarahBM

one thing that bugged me about Nemisis is Janeway's hair :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The_Valeyard

Indricotherium wrote: »

It's the last film?

No, the Remans in 'Nemesis'
And then their cameo's in Enterprise.

Antar Bolaeisk

SarahBM wrote: »

one thing that bugged me about Nemisis is Janeway's hair :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not the fact that she was an admiral having lost her ship on it's maiden voyage, screwed up the delta quadrant and finally got home by her future self breaking the temporal prime directive.

(Maybe they promoted her to keep her from doing any more damage )

Indricotherium

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Not the fact that she was an admiral having lost her ship on it's maiden voyage, screwed up the delta quadrant and finally got home by her future self breaking the temporal prime directive.

(Maybe they promoted her to keep her from doing any more damage )

Plus any number of war crimes

degrassinoel

is it weird that i think Janeway's voice is sexy?

degrassinoel

degrassinoel wrote: »

is it weird that i think Janeway's voice is sexy?

Yes

368100

degrassinoel wrote: »

is it weird that i think Janeway's voice is sexy?

No....guilty pleasure ;-)

IvySlayer

Myrddin wrote: »

In terms of pure TNG films, Generations is the truest to the tv show, and nowhere near as bad as is made out. The others weren't ever really TNG films, they were poor action films (though First Contact was a decent effort).

Kirk died in a lame way, Ent D died in a lame way, Picards brother and nephew died in a lame way, 3 things I will never get over! The scenes and the music in the Nexus were amazing though

Imagine Kirk didn't die and went off with Picard, to reunite with Scotty and Spock :pac:

Swing by DS9 and he could have recognised Sisko considering he shook his hand :cool:

Santos L. Halper

Destroying the Enterprise D and killing Kirk were the two stupidest, most pointless stunts Star Trek has ever done. The Enterprise D survived countless encounters and fights with hostile aliens and space phenomena over the years, yet in this movie we are meant to believe the federation flagship is destroyed in a skirmish with a crappy bird of prey? Likewise Kirk. He managed to survive amazing dangers over his career, yet in Generations, he is killed by some old guy on a rickety bridge trying to save an alien race we never even see. It was as if the writers originally knew they had a bland, unremarkable movie, and only crammed these two things in to make the movie feel 'important'.

Optimus Prime

I hated generations when it came out, I mean Kirk, killed by a bridge, absolute disgrace. I can watch it now, but i can never forgive that. I also hated the fact picards nephew and brother where killed, why bother with that? Its just so depressing in a 2 hour film after spending 7 years with the character to have him broken like that in an phone call is stupid and starts the film off on a sour note and then its wrapped up by someone ive watched on TV\film over and over since i was kid being flattened by a bridge. Worst. Death. Ever.

Runner up worst deaths ever

Hicks\Newt alien 3, makes Aliens less enjoyable knowing they die in their sleep.

Han Solo, our beloved childhood hero, at the end of Jedi we where left with a smile on our face as him and Leia spend the rest of their happy lives together.

Flash forward 30 years, Solo is space divorced, his son killed a load of kids and he is skewered by his son and thrown off a bridge. No heroes death, no redemption for his kid, dies miserable.

People on bridges in SCIFI films dont end up in good situations.

Indricotherium

Optimus Prime wrote: »

Runner up worst deaths ever

At least they stay dead.

Nothing worse than crow-barring Hero=Jesus into a plot.

Optimus x 2
Harry
Jon


At least Anikan only figuratively dies before coming back to life to save the day.

SarahBM

As I may have mentioned before I am watching Star Trek The Original Series for the first time and I am absolutely loving it!!!!
Just over half way through Season 2. The episode Patterns of Force. Great episode.

ItHurtsWhenIP

SarahBM wrote: »

As I may have mentioned before I am watching Star Trek The Original Series for the first time and I am absolutely loving it!!!!
Just over half way through Season 2. The episode Patterns of Force. Great episode.

Glad you like the old school stuff too. Just to warn you though Season 3 does get a bit iffy. If you are a true Trekkie (like I), you will look past it and enjoy it for what it is.

The_Valeyard

ItHurtsWhenIP wrote: »

Glad you like the old school stuff too. Just to warn you though Season 3 does get a bit iffy. If you are a true Trekkie (like I), you will look past it and enjoy it for what it is.

Is season three the space hippies?

SarahBM

To be honest I was NOT expecting to enjoy TOS at all. I thought I would find it stupid. And although it does have it's ridiculous moments (like most Sci Fi shows) some of the story lines have really surprised me and were very "out there" for the 60's I think.
There was a scene in the episode called the Gamesters of Trisk where Uhura was taken away by their captures and I think raped. It really shocked me. But I was annoyed that they they didn't elude to it after. It was like it never happened. For something so serious, it was then just brushed over. Im not saying I wanted to see her go for counselling or anything, but I don't recall her colleagues checking if she was ok.
McCoy is just brilliant. I love him. And I think I would have had Kirk up on my bedroom wall if I had seen this when I was a teenager!

ItHurtsWhenIP

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Is season three the space hippies?

Yep. The Way to Eden.

I was also very disappointed with Spock's Brain, mainly because Spock is my favourite character of all.

Indricotherium

Came across the expression 'Borgesian', in an article today.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/borgesian

"reminiscent of elements of Borges' stories and essays, esp labyrinths, mirrors, reality, identity, the nature of time, and infinity"

All of those elements would seem to apply to the Borg in ST.

AMKC

Am hearing rumors that Paramount Studios are in big trouble. The proposed sale to the Chinese has failed to go through and that "Beyond" might be the last of the nu trek films. Be sad if it happens would loved to see what they would have done or where they would have gone in the next one.

ForstalDave

AMKC wrote: »

Am hearing rumors that Paramount Studios are in big trouble. The proposed sale to the Chinese has failed to go through and that "Beyond" might be the last of the nu trek films. Be sad if it happens would loved to see what they would have done or where they would have gone in the next one.

If they are making money more will be made someone will front the money

The_Valeyard

ItHurtsWhenIP wrote: »

Yep. The Way to Eden.

I was also very disappointed with Spock's Brain, mainly because Spock is my favourite character of all.

You think hippies be the first to get wiped out in the Eugenics wars and WW3

AMKC

ForstalDave wrote: »

If they are making money more will be made someone will front the money

I don,t think "Beyond" made its money back do. It struggled to break even which is a big disappointment as it is the best of the 3 Nu Trek films.

One thing that does make sense now do is why Paramount have not been advertising there films more and sooner. It must have been because off budget cuts.

Indricotherium

AMKC wrote: »

see what they would have done or where they would have gone in the next one.

More 'splosions and bike chases.

Indricotherium

The_Valeyard wrote: »

You think hippies be the first to get wiped out in the Eugenics wars and WW3

In fairness hippies are the social issue of the day.

Like it's a lot less cringing than chakotay.