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General Star Trek thread

G-Money

I thought it might be an idea for us to start a general Star Trek thread to discuss anything and everything related to Trek.

I'm in the middle of watching DS9 now, I'm being reminded how funny Quark is, he was great.

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GSPfan

Strange question for everyone....

If Star Trek Enterprise had a more normal intro in the same vein as TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager do you think it would have been received better by fans at the time?

I ask because I remember watching it and at the time I’d cringe a little at that intro music at the start of every episode. It blunted my excitement slightly.

I just wonder if Enterprise had of started with a theme tune like that of Quantum Leap would we have all remembered it a bit more fondly.

[Deleted User]

It’s my favourite (the slower one from 1 and 2 anyway) and I think it suits the era and idea of the show, but yeah I get what you mean. Seems to be heavily criticised.

breezy1985

GSPfan wrote: »

Strange question for everyone....

If Star Trek Enterprise had a more normal intro in the same vein as TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager do you think it would have been received better by fans at the time?

I ask because I remember watching it and at the time I’d cringe a little at that intro music at the start of every episode. It blunted my excitement slightly.

I just wonder if Enterprise had of started with a theme tune like that of Quantum Leap would we have all remembered it a bit more fondly.

Calling it Enterprise really annoyed me and Bakula was a bit too squeaky clean. A better actor like Stewart, Brooks or Isaac's might have carried the show but the general consensus seems to be that people were just a bit worn out with Bermans Star Trek

Rawr

breezy1985 wrote: »

Calling it Enterprise really annoyed me and Bakula was a bit too squeaky clean. A better actor like Stewart, Brooks or Isaac's might have carried the show but the general consensus seems to be that people were just a bit worn out with Bermans Star Trek

That for me is part of what I was getting tired with.
I remember by the time I was watching the final season of Voyager I was feeling that Rick Berman was either sitting on his laurels or was just spent of good ideas. Enterprise had just felt like a unwise attempt to ape the Star Wars prequel trilogy, in the hope that scifi prequels would be a new popular trend. Dropping "Star Trek" from the name also pissed me off no end.

It was a show that deserved more credit than I believe I was ready to give at the time.

AMKC

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It’s my favourite (the slower one from 1 and 2 anyway) and I think it suits the era and idea of the show, but yeah I get what you mean. Seems to be heavily criticised.

Agreed it was a much better tune in season 1 and 2 than what they done to it in season 3 and 4 and ruining it like that was just disgraceful. I like singing it.

odyssey06

AMKC wrote: »

Agreed it was a much better tune in season 1 and 2 than what they done to it in season 3 and 4 and ruining it like that was just disgraceful. I like singing it.

It's a nice tune but it's not Trek... I was a bit more hostile towards it until I saw Russell Watson doing a random interview on TV and he came across as a sound bloke.

AMKC

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's a nice tune but it's not Trek... I was a bit more hostile towards it until I saw Russell Watson doing a random interview on TV and he came across as a sound bloke.

You might have liked the original theme that was intended for it then,

https://youtu.be/JtWT-H3XQGI

Cookie_Monster

GSPfan wrote: »

If Star Trek Enterprise had a more normal intro in the same vein as TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager do you think it would have been received better by fans at the time?

let me just ruin this for you...

cant unwatch it, cant watch it and not be phased every intro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUiDc6pOfxw

[Deleted User]

AMKC wrote: »

You might have liked the original theme that was intended for it then,

https://youtu.be/JtWT-H3XQGI

I find your lack of Faith (of the Hert) disturbing

Stark

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

let me just ruin this for you...

cant unwatch it, cant watch it and not be phased every intro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUiDc6pOfxw

That was actually quite interesting. I'll probably end up watching the Voyager intro on the lookout for super tiny planet now rather than skipping it

To be fair, I've often noticed ships on Star Trek looking far too big compared to adjacent planets. If you went for full realism, you just wouldn't be able to get the ship and the planet in the same frame without the ship being too small to see.

Also found the DS9 and Voyager generally very bland. TOS had the Kirk voiceover. TNG had a whole lot going on: Picard's voiceover, upbeat orchestra, 80's blue font, woosh-woosh Enterprise and "Also starring Levar Burton"

I've warmed quite a bit to Enterprise's intro over the years, seems like an attempt to reclaim the TOS sense of adventure into the unknown while doing something new.

AMKC

Deleted User wrote: »

I find your lack of Faith (of the Hert) disturbing

There is a few more intros for Enterprise on You-Tube too.

Like I said already I like the one it was giving. I liked it at the beginning and still like it now.

GSPfan

To be honest I’m a fan of the minimum intro on some shows. There was a time there about 10+ years ago where intros became very short. Examples I can think of are Lost, Heroes, Stargate Universe.
Then I think Netflix lead the way in bringing back the long intro and turned it into an art form. One of the best ones is Daredevil. That tune is still my ringtone on my phone.
And of course Game of Thrones was an absolute masterpiece. I’m loving the intro to The Expanse. Even though I’m binge watching episodes I don’t skip the intro.

I hate Discovery’s intro. Didn’t really like Enterprises.

pixelburp

IIRC Lost was the show that popularised the short intro. Boom, title card, let's do it. As you say Netflix and HBO brought them back but as legitimate pieces of art and creativity than the hokey cast montages of previous eras (though there's a soft spot for the McGuyver intros of this world). Critically, you can only "skip intro" after the first episode of shows on Netflix and Amazon I think? So especially with those more elaborate intros, it's good to watch them once but not every time either. Hmmm might spin up a thread in the TV forum of great TV intros cos they can just look so good.

It's kinda the same with films too TBH. Fashions that come in waves. Watch any old black and white flick and you gotta be ready for 5 minutes of credits _at the start_ (fun slightly related fact, Night of the Living Dead is a public domain film because someone forgot to put the copyright symbol in the title card. Back then in the 60s, that was legally binding, and so it stuck, the film now a non-copyright work. Whoops!)

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

IIRC Lost was the show that popularised the short intro. Boom, title card, let's do it. As you say Netflix and HBO brought them back but as legitimate pieces of art and creativity than the hokey cast montages of previous eras (though there's a soft spot for the McGuyver intros of this world). Critically, you can only "skip intro" after the first episode of shows on Netflix and Amazon I think? So especially with those more elaborate intros, it's good to watch them once but not every time either. Hmmm might spin up a thread in the TV forum of great TV intros cos they can just look so good.

It's kinda the same with films too TBH. Fashions that come in waves. Watch any old black and white flick and you gotta be ready for 5 minutes of credits _at the start_ (fun slightly related fact, Night of the Living Dead is a public domain film because someone forgot to put the copyright symbol in the title card. Back then in the 60s, that was legally binding, and so it stuck, the film now a non-copyright work. Whoops!)

Wasn't it Star Wars that was the first big movie to not have opening credits. Got George Lucas kicked out of some big film makers guild

AMKC

GSPfan wrote: »

To be honest I’m a fan of the minimum intro on some shows. There was a time there about 10+ years ago where intros became very short. Examples I can think of are Lost, Heroes, Stargate Universe.
Then I think Netflix lead the way in bringing back the long intro and turned it into an art form. One of the best ones is Daredevil. That tune is still my ringtone on my phone.
And of course Game of Thrones was an absolute masterpiece. I’m loving the intro to The Expanse. Even though I’m binge watching episodes I don’t skip the intro.

I hate Discovery’s intro. Didn’t really like Enterprises.

I like Enterprises intro but have never liked Discovery's but the show is a mess anyway. It will get one more chance from me and the fourth season is as bad that's it I am done with it.

breezy1985 wrote: »

Wasn't it Star Wars that was the first big movie to not have opening credits. Got George Lucas kicked out of some big film makers guild

You are probably right.

Me I like good intros to films and at T.V series. It shows a lack of imagination when they do not have any. As much as I do not like Disoverys one at least they had some imagination just not in the right style.

Cookie_Monster

AMKC wrote: »

Me I like good intros to films and at T.V series. It shows a lack of imagination when they do not have any. As much as I do not like Disoverys one at least they had some imagination just not in the right style.

whatever about in the past, intros are a bit redundant in an era where people binge watch multiple episodes back to back.
I do like that netflix's option to skip intro on most series now

breezy1985

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

whatever about in the past, intros are a bit redundant in an era where people binge watch multiple episodes back to back.
I do like that netflix's option to skip intro on most series now

I watch them once or once a season on shows where it evolved and then skip the rest

Justin Credible Darts

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

whatever about in the past, intros are a bit redundant in an era where people binge watch multiple episodes back to back.
I do like that netflix's option to skip intro on most series now

hate to break it to you, but we were fast fowarding that in the time of videos.

Even when kids watching the sunday matinee, we would be getting the cup of tea while the credits were rolling.

nyarlothothep

Did anyone notice in the Barclay transporter episode that Riker is a massive dick to Barclay? When Barclay determines that there is a serious fault with the transporters he alerts the senior staff. He finds this out by exposing himself to his greatest fear repeatedly after getting attacked by the microbe thing in a cruel twist of fate. All Riker can do is roll his eyes as Barclay gives his explanation. Worf, the giga-Chad, who you'd expect to laugh at Barclay is actually respectful and takes him seriously. Once Barclay's discovery is confirmed does Riker show him an inch of sympathy? No! Barclay requests he perform the experiment with Geordi, despite being traumatised by his transporter experience and Riker brusquely grants it while pointing his finger in Barclay's face, giving a little passive aggressive anticipatory reprimand "take all the necessary precautions". You don't say Riker? Here is a man who has transporter phobia, has been attacked by an alien creature in the transport stream, has weird radioactive contamination in his arm and you need to remind him to play it safe because you think he'll forget? A little bit of tact and understanding wouldn't go amiss.

There are other instances of Riker being a bullying, overbearing pompous ass to his subordinates (unless he wants to have sex with them), the lower decks episode is one example if I remember correctly. I can grant his posturing with Shelby as those overly-ambitious, try to upstage you types are insufferable but otherwise, Riker is supremely petty with lower ranks. Data would have made a better XO.

pixelburp

So just saw a mention in passing about Kate Mulgrew's involvement in the animated Academy show, and given the success of Lower Decks ... I wonder. Is Trek going to slowly pivot towards being a predominantly animated show?

Between CoVid causing real problems to location shoots, the greater expense of live-action TV anyway - and just the overall better reception of the animated shows - part of me's theorising that CBS / Paramount might start to slowly kill off its live-action projects in favour of cartoons. Or, probably not, but kinda got me thinking all the same.

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

So just saw a mention in passing about Kate Mulgrew's involvement in the animated Academy show, and given the success of Lower Decks ... I wonder. Is Trek going to slowly pivot towards being a predominantly animated show?

Between CoVid causing real problems to location shoots, the greater expense of live-action TV anyway - and just the overall better reception of the animated shows - part of me's theorising that CBS / Paramount might start to slowly kill off its live-action projects in favour of cartoons. Or, probably not, but kinda got me thinking all the same.

Lower Decks was to tap into the adult cartoon scene which is pretty strong and Academy is a nickelodeon show for younger people so not unusual.

There is more DIS, Picard to come plus Strange New Worlds and Section 31 so live action doesn't look to be going anywhere

[Deleted User]

pixelburp wrote: »

So just saw a mention in passing about Kate Mulgrew's involvement in the animated Academy show, and given the success of Lower Decks ... I wonder. Is Trek going to slowly pivot towards being a predominantly animated show?

Between CoVid causing real problems to location shoots, the greater expense of live-action TV anyway - and just the overall better reception of the animated shows - part of me's theorising that CBS / Paramount might start to slowly kill off its live-action projects in favour of cartoons. Or, probably not, but kinda got me thinking all the same.

I hope not. As bad as Discovery and Picard have been, I have zero interest in their place being taken by jokey animated shows. Lower Decks is atrocious.

a_squirrelman

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I hope not. As bad as Discovery and Picard have been, I have zero interest in their place being taken by jokey animates shows. Lower Decks is atrocious.

Ah now, Lower Decks is savage.

pixelburp

breezy1985 wrote: »

Lower Decks was to tap into the adult cartoon scene which is pretty strong and Academy is a nickelodeon show for younger people so not unusual.

There is more DIS, Picard to come plus Strange New Worlds and Section 31 so live action doesn't look to be going anywhere

Has either section 31 or Strange New World's even started production yet though? Certainly the former seemed still in a weird maybe state of limbo. And presumably Picard has a much more limited shelf life in any case for more obvious, real world reasons...

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

Has either section 31 or Strange New World's even started production yet though? Certainly the former seemed still in a weird maybe state of limbo. And presumably Picard has a much more limited shelf life in any case for more obvious, real world reasons...

All stopped for Covid but they are happening barring a tragedy with Picard

ilovesmybrick

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I hope not. As bad as Discovery and Picard have been, I have zero interest in their place being taken by jokey animated shows. Lower Decks is atrocious.

I have to say, Lower Decks was the best of the three this year. Picard follows after with the same rating as maybe season three TNG, Disco might be rated somehwhere around first season TNG, at a stretch.

[Deleted User]

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I have to say, Lower Decks was the best of the three this year. Picard follows after with the same rating as maybe season three TNG, Disco might be rated somehwhere around first season TNG, at a stretch.

I wouldn’t even have a spoofy cartoon in the same comparison as the proper shows. For me there were only two Star Trek series the past year, even if they were bad.

pixelburp

breezy1985 wrote: »

All stopped for Covid but they are happening barring a tragedy with Picard

As I'm reading it, section 31 was first announced back in Jan 2019; that was 1+ years before CoVid threw it's giant spanner, yet I can't see any concrete info this show was every really happening TBH. Bar that Terran episode to put Georghiu back into the past. I'd honestly stick my neck out at this stage, and say Section 31 won't happen. Not when between it and Strange New Worlds, the latter appears to have genuine fan goodwill behind it.

ilovesmybrick

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I wouldn’t even have a spoofy cartoon in the same comparison as the proper shows. For me there were only two Star Trek series the past year, even if they were bad.

Each to their own. I was initially incredibly dubious of the concept of Lower Decks, but for me it got the right balance of reverance to the source material, while pulling the piss out of some of the nonsense. I was engaged with Picard because of Picard as a character, I engaged with Lower Decks because I felt they took the obvious parts of Trek that we can pull the piss out off and made a great homage to it, while also developing characters in a way that I felt works in the universe. How the Barclay's can succeed in a world. all about high achievers. I can't say I engaged with Discovery in the same manner.

breezy1985

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Each to their own. I was initially incredibly dubious of the concept of Lower Decks, but for me it got the right balance of reverance to the source material, while pulling the piss out of some of the nonsense. I was engaged with Picard because of Picard as a character, I engaged with Lower Decks because I felt they took the obvious parts of Trek that we can pull the piss out off and made a great homage to it, while also developing characters in a way that I felt works in the universe. How the Barclay's can succeed in a world. all about high achievers. I can't say I engaged with Discovery in the same manner.

Lower Decks final episode was way better than the other 2 cartoon or not.
No end of universe BS and some tough consequences in the end