Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - Read OP

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 2:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You should visit parts of Malmö.

I believe there are some rough immigrant areas, I'd say they're a walk in the park compared to some of the kips we have in Dublin though. Certain factions like to blow social problems in Sweden involving immigrants out of proportion to suit their agendas.

KeepItLight · 05-05-2021 2:21pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I believe there are some rough immigrant areas, I'd say they're a walk in the park compared to some of the kips we have in Dublin though. Certain factions like to blow social problems in Sweden involving immigrants out of proportion to suit their agendas.

Sweden has a x12 higher rape rate than Ireland

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 2:23pm

KeepItLight wrote: »

Sweden has a x12 higher rape rate than Ireland

I wasn't talking about rape, just general thuggery from youth.

05-05-2021 2:26pm

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Indeed, if it's one thing that history has taught us over and over again it's that violence is always the solution to society's problems :rolleyes:

If this thread starts going down a rabbit hole with nonsense like this it'll be closed immediately

It might not seem popular, but there is some truth to it. My sister would be the stereotype scumbag and also the people she associated with. Nothing tames them quicker than a good hiding.

The truth is, that the current generation were never touched. It simply never happened to them, as that kind of thing had phased out, so much so that I genuinely do not actually think that the youth of today even consider it as a consequence at all.

I reckon if you grabbed a teen these days they'd go into shock.

KeepItLight · 05-05-2021 2:26pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I wasn't talking about rape, just general thuggery from youth.

surely a x12 higher rate of rape is an indicator of a higher level of thuggery in general?

I think its fairly obvious that as bad as Ireland is for youth crime, the UK, Belgium, France & Sweden much worse.

Tommo 76 · 05-05-2021 2:28pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Absolutely shocking but not surprised there are some serious amount of evil bastardos among us .

Dublin city is a cess pool, we need to see Garda presence, rare if none at all on the beat and young gang's everywhere.

The Gardai’s hands are somewhat tied by the inept judicial system. They get treated as minors and are just given a warning. They don’t fear the system at all that’s the problem, you see these people with multiple convictions and then the “come from a disadvantaged background etc” line is thrown about and away they go again…

05-05-2021 2:29pm

KeepItLight wrote: »

surely a x12 higher rate of rape is an indicator of a higher level of thuggery in general?

I think its fairly obvious that as bad as Ireland is for youth crime, the UK, Belgium, France & Sweden much worse.

No.
Sexual crimes are not an indicator of thuggery in general.

mrslancaster · 05-05-2021 2:30pm

KeepItLight wrote: »

the lack of a role model is a huge one, ....

Unfortunately a lot of young thugs have a lot of role models in their communities. Older thugs, drug dealers, those involved in robbery & fraud who they see getting away with crimes & no consequences.

Edit...or worse, actually profiting from crime.

KeepItLight · 05-05-2021 2:30pm

bubblypop wrote: »

No.
Sexual crimes are not an indicator of thuggery in general.

according to you, but I think that its clearly the opposite.

anyways, not taking this further off topic

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 2:31pm

KeepItLight wrote: »

surely a x12 higher rate of rape is an indicator of a higher level of thuggery in general?

I think its fairly obvious that as bad as Ireland is for youth crime, the UK, Belgium, France & Sweden much worse.

Well we're kind of famous for child abuse what does that say about us?

Cilldara_2000 · 05-05-2021 2:31pm

Tommo 76 wrote: »

The Gardai’s hands are somewhat tied by the inept judicial system. They get treated as minors and are just given a warning. They don’t fear the system at all that’s the problem, you see these people with multiple convictions and then the “come from a disadvantaged background etc” line is thrown about and away they go again…

There's scumbags in their 30s and 40s still playing the "sure he had a hard upbringing" card and judges are swallowing it.

05-05-2021 2:32pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Children's allowance payments that aren't capped encourage people who can't afford to have kids, to have kids. The parents don't particularly care about the kids, they just want the money.

Kids are neglected and grow up to be scum. Realise, at about 11 years of age, they are untouchable in terms of the law. Fall in with the wrong crowd and start in drugs and delivering/dealing as they can't be punished and once in that circle of people, they all egg each other on to do more depraved stuff as it's all just a bit of craic.

Keep in mind, even adults in Ireland don't really face the consequences of their actions.

Meanwhile, the poor chaps will have signed up for the housing list (where having an anti-social record and criminal convictions don't slow you down getting a free house) and you'll have your medical card, social welfare, etc. when you're an adult, and the kids know all this, as they've been told it over and over again by the adults around them.

Once someone goes into "that" side of the economy, and starts with never working a real job, dealing drugs, acting like a thug and getting away with it all, it's incredibly difficult to get them back on the 'right' side of things at all.

There is no effort by the Gardai or Councils to tackle the issues or hit the scumbags where it hurts, so there is no fear of repercussion, as there rarely is any repercussion to fear.

Exactly.

And instead of our elected representatives tackling this age old issue and formulating changes... they decide to work on important legislation such as MUP.
Jesus wept.

If you picked the biggest issues we face, you can be sure not a single one were talked about in the Dail this week... its mind boggling.

05-05-2021 2:32pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'd say they're a walk in the park compared to some of the kips we have in Dublin though.

Based on nothing. Pure speculation. Great argument.

Antares35 · 05-05-2021 2:34pm

I think it probably starts way back with the "how dare you accuse my child of (whatever)" from parents. Teachers literally cannot say anything to a pupil now without the mamma (or dadda) bear descending on them like a tonne of bricks. My Johnny would never do something like that blah blah. Kid sees there are no repercussions to bad behaviour, keeps on going. Or, maybe just absent parenting as in the parents are there physically but they don't really give a damn what the kids do either way.

05-05-2021 2:35pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well we're kind of famous for child abuse what does that say about us?

You're on the wind up. There's no way you're serious, based on the last few pages.

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 2:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You're on the wind up. There's no way you're serious, based on the last few pages.

Someone brought up sexual assault in Sweden.
I'm not on the wind up, I think we have rough kids like I've never seen anywhere else except maybe the UK. A different breed that were cultivated through complex social issues over time. You don't agree and that's fine.

mrslancaster · 05-05-2021 2:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

....I reckon if you grabbed a teen these days they'd go into shock.

Seriously who'd take that chance? In Dublin anyway....:eek:

EddieN75 · 05-05-2021 2:40pm

WrenBoy wrote: »

The loss of a sense of community, low self respect and having no positive role models in their lives seems to me to be quite a large driver of these disaffected youths, who then go on to raise disaffected youths.
How that is remedied is the million Euro question.

Stop the handouts. If you have nothing to do all day you don't feel part of society. You have no purpose.
These youths are the children of those layabouts and have grown up living that lifestyle.

That's a long term solution. Short term more Gardai on the street and less driving around in the car playing with their phones until shift change

FileNotFound · 05-05-2021 2:42pm

mrslancaster wrote: »

Seriously who'd take that chance? In Dublin anyway....:eek:

Reality is that doing anything will get one of us in trouble, all the everyday person can do is suffer whatever is happening and report it to the Gardai that can do little more.

It really is a viscous cirlce of kids seeing bad adults and becoming even worse themselves. The use of teens for drug dealing as they cannot be punished is awful common now.

I do think there are many potential solutions but they all have negatives and no politician is willing to make the changes. The idea of someone with 30 convictions getting social welfare still is daft.

briany · 05-05-2021 2:42pm

There must be an easy win somewhere in Irish politics for someone to say, "Vote for me, and I'll put more Gards on the streets of Dublin." ,seeing as the problem of feral youths is primarily, though not solely, linked to Dublin city and its immediate environs. That is unless the reported incidents of reckless teenage violence, though egregious and alarming, are just not truly of a great enough incidence to make it a top priority for enough voters.

Would a return to Holy Catholic Ireland solve the issue? Where we used to confiscate children from unwed mothers, brutalise young men in reformatories, force everyone to go to mass on a Sunday and have rigid family units? Maybe, but even then, it's not a cost people would pay.

biko · 05-05-2021 2:44pm

It's tricky.

In Sweden (referenced above in thread) a 16yo and his mates were harassing a 68yo woman and eventually burned her house down and killed her.
The 16yo says it was unintentional to start such a big fire, and perhaps it was.

Should he be charged with murder and have that over his head the rest of his life?

He needs to pay, and pay dearly, but how?

KeepItLight · 05-05-2021 2:45pm

biko wrote: »

It's tricky.

In Sweden (referenced above in thread) a 16yo and his mates were harassing a 68yo woman and eventually burned her house down and killed her.
The 16yo says it was unintentional to start such a big fire, and perhaps it was.

Should he be charged with murder and have that over his head the rest of his life?

yes

FileNotFound · 05-05-2021 2:46pm

biko wrote: »

It's tricky.

In Sweden (referenced above in thread) a 16yo and his mates were harassing a 68yo woman and eventually burned her house down and killed her.
The 16yo says it was unintentional to start such a big fire, and perhaps it was.

Should he be charged with murder and have that over his head the rest of his life?

Sadly I think yes - lesson to the rest. Actions are more relevant than intentions in reality.

Kermit.de.frog · 05-05-2021 2:48pm

https://twitter.com/davidhall75/status/1389295260011008000

Seems like common sense. Deduct dole payments/wages. I reckon if this was introduced you'd be amazed just how many 'parents' would discover parenting quick fast when they have less for the booze and the cigarettes.

The problem is no consequences at the end of the day.

Baggly · 05-05-2021 2:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It might not seem popular, but there is some truth to it. My sister would be the stereotype scumbag and also the people she associated with. Nothing tames them quicker than a good hiding.

The truth is, that the current generation were never touched. It simply never happened to them, as that kind of thing had phased out, so much so that I genuinely do not actually think that the youth of today even consider it as a consequence at all.

I reckon if you grabbed a teen these days they'd go into shock.

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Exactly.

And instead of our elected representatives tackling this age old issue and formulating changes... they decide to work on important legislation such as MUP.
Jesus wept.

If you picked the biggest issues we face, you can be sure not a single one were talked about in the Dail this week... its mind boggling.

Mod

Both of you dont post in this thread again.

Quoting a mod warning saying dont go down that rabbit hole TO GO DOWN THAT RABBIT HOLE. Come on lads you are better than that.

biko · 05-05-2021 2:49pm

Almost all of us managed to get though childhood and teen years without killing or hurting someone.
What makes us special?
A sense of morality?
Better parents?

Witcher · 05-05-2021 2:51pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/davidhall75/status/1389295260011008000

Seems like common sense. Deduct dole payments/wages. I reckon if this was introduced you'd be amazed just how many 'parents' would discover parenting quick fast when they have less for the booze and the cigarettes.

The problem is no consequences at the end of the day.

It's not, it's ****ing moronic and ignorant of the actual situation on the ground with many young offenders.

Populist sh1te talk doesn't solve anything.

greenspurs · 05-05-2021 2:53pm

Yeh , yeh , yeh..

Theres no prisons to put these little 'gangsta's' so blame the gardai/judiciary all you want. But they have nowhere to incarcerate them for their crimes.
If theres no threat of a removal of their liberty, these gurriers have nothing to fear.

KeepItLight · 05-05-2021 2:53pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/davidhall75/status/1389295260011008000

Seems like common sense. I reckon if this was introduced you'd be amazed just how many 'parents' would discover parenting quick fast when they have less for the booze and the cigarettes.

The problem is no consequences at the end of the day.

While there are definitely some generational issues, there's also plenty of cases where its just some inherently nasty little thug, who would be that way regardless. I know several lovely families with a black sheep scrote amongst them & it isn't the parents fault.

Notmything · 05-05-2021 2:56pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Parenting classes should be provided by the government for all, and to get people to go, link it to child support. You want child support you do the classes. Even if it is only a few days a year I believe it could make a big difference.

The state already provides parenting courses. Parents get referred to them on a regular enough basis.

However, many don't go because they want to, it's something they are forced to. So they go, sit in a circle and don't engage. I've had parents tell me they are only there because the judge made them.

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 2:57pm

Witcher wrote: »

It's not, it's ****ing moronic and ignorant of the actual situation on the ground with many young offenders.

Populist sh1te talk doesn't solve anything.

That's the thing, I live near where those kids kicked the woman under the train, most of them are harmless around here and come from decent families.
A lot of teenagers get into trouble regardless of their background, but we do seem to have exceptionally dodgy ones in certain areas.

05-05-2021 2:59pm

mrslancaster wrote: »

Seriously who'd take that chance? In Dublin anyway....:eek:

Half these little turds would **** themselves if you grabbed them and their mates were nowhere to be seen.

The little rodents to be coming over the wall of my apartment complex and walking through the courtyard looking to rob bikes. Guards don't care a whole lot.

You'd see more on patrol in Herbert Park than you would up my way (North Inner City). I told my missus to stop cycling here. If anyone so much as layed a finger on her I would be out for blood. No respect, horrible little rats is all they are. And their parents much the same.

That little biker gang pushing the woman onto the tracks and the stabbing in IFSC and another woman thrown in the canal is absolutely sickening to me.

KeepItLight · 05-05-2021 3:00pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That's the thing, I live near where those kids kicked the woman under the train, most of them are harmless around here and come from decent families.
A lot of teenagers get into trouble regardless of their background, but we do seem to have exceptionally dodgy ones in certain areas.

They'll have their own little cliques which form, where they have to show off to each other. This will happen regardless of how loving and supportive the family structure is, though a ****e family situation is certainly a fertile ground for this stuff to take root too.

EddieN75 · 05-05-2021 3:03pm

biko wrote: »

Almost all of us managed to get though childhood and teen years without killing or hurting someone.
What makes us special?
A sense of morality?
Better parents?

Your parents worked and contributed to society.
As a young child you absorbed this sociable lifestyle

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 3:04pm

KeepItLight wrote: »

They'll have their own little cliques which form, where they have to show off to each other. This will happen regardless of how loving and supportive the family structure is, though a ****e family situation is certainly a fertile ground for this stuff to take root too.

Yeah but when people start going on about deducting their dole, I'd wager those train kids are from Donaghmede or Kilbarrack or somewhere around here and everyone seems to work in these areas.
It's not always down to bad parenting it's just this culture of mad-bastardism and general gurrier carry on that we seem to be fond of in Ireland.

05-05-2021 3:05pm

Why is the assumption that the kids in the malahide incident are deprived?

KeepItLight · 05-05-2021 3:11pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah but when people start going on about deducting their dole, I'd wager those train kids are from Donaghmede or Kilbarrack or somewhere around here and everyone seems to work in these areas.
It's not always down to bad parenting it's just this culture of mad-bastardism and general gurrier carry on that we seem to be fond of in Ireland.

I think this is why sports are so important, because it an offers an outlet for this kind of energy and an alternative means of 'showing off' without the nihilistic thuggery. Of course there are cases where someone is both an athlete and a thug, but for the most part having that alternative social framework and positive reinforcement can work wonders.

Montage of Feck · 05-05-2021 3:20pm

If I make a bomb and it goes off and kills somebody I will be held responsible, why should making a baby be any different?

FileNotFound · 05-05-2021 3:20pm

Is it down to bad parenting? Well its definitely down to less than the best parenting, lord knows the day i made my first mistake the old fella made sure the second would be slow in coming, whether its grounding, or alternate punishment it should be happening.

Modern society and the lack of risk when acting the maggot helps build the culture.

Idle hands and lack of active engagement in sports is a likely contributor - I played so many sports that i'd prob not the energy to be my worst.

Its many things combined most likely, how you fix these in snowflake land is anyone's guess

KeepItLight · 05-05-2021 3:24pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

If I make a bomb and it goes off and kills somebody I will be held responsible, why should making a baby be any different?

you can do better than this, come on.
at what point does personal autonomy come into play? is the grandfather responsible for the sins of the grandson due to the same causal chain?

Antares35 · 05-05-2021 3:24pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

If I make a bomb and it goes off and kills somebody I will be held responsible, why should making a baby be any different?

Because legally if the prosecution find that there was an intention to kill or cause serious injury, then you can be found guilty of murder. One would assume that such intention would apply to the making of a bomb, because what the hell else is a bomb for. However one does not make a child with the intention that the child will kill or cause serious injury.

K.Flyer · 05-05-2021 3:44pm

KeepItLight wrote: »

I think this is why sports are so important, because it an offers an outlet for this kind of energy and an alternative means of 'showing off' without the nihilistic thuggery. Of course there are cases where someone is both an athlete and a thug, but for the most part having that alternative social framework and positive reinforcement can work wonders.

Contrary to that..
I know a lot of people, including myself, who had / have no real interest in sports. Hated track days in school, no particular interest in soccer, gaa or rugby etc. Nothing against it, just no interest in it.
We were more into our music and motorbikes etc.
Didn't grow up to be thugs or degenerates, worked hard and brought up responsible families.
We knew the difference between right and wrong and consequences.
But today, there are no consequences, no deterrents.
They laugh at the Garda and anyone else they cause misery for.
I've seen it with my own eyes two gangs of teenage scummers fighting each other then both turning around to take on the Garda when they arrived.
And hilariously there is now more evidence available than ever before with loads of it being posted on social media, yet what proportion actually get locked up?
Very few I imagine given the already overcrowded prison system.

Pinch Flat · 05-05-2021 3:50pm

Multi generational scum bagness has a lot to do with it. Quite likely the parents and grandparents parents are scumbags as well so they don't stand much of a chance.

osarusan · 05-05-2021 3:51pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

If I make a bomb and it goes off and kills somebody I will be held responsible, why should making a baby be any different?

Sweet jesus that is beyond stupid.

Larbre34 · 05-05-2021 3:56pm

It was ever thus.

There have always been sociopathic teenagers and, funnily enough, sociopathic people at all stages of life.

The good news is, 99%+ of our teenagers have a strong moral sense and behave accordingly. Those in my own extended family are far more compassionate, charitable and socially aware than I ever was at that age, I admire them greatly.

05-05-2021 4:00pm

My 5 year old daughter and I were stoned in Windy Arbour playground last year. I am left with a prematurely and rapidly detaching vitreous which leaves me at risk of a detached retina and blindness, 4 more weeks high risk. Aldo have facial nerve damage which is healing and had a cornea abrasion.

The girl, and yes it was a girl that did it managed to avoid even talking to the guards. The guards wanted to give me a caution for kicking the **** out of her, in fairness I stopped once I realised it was a girl. The guard left me off though when the girl failed to cooperate and even give a statement.

Her mother was all over the radio the day after "She might have hit him by accident while playing with stones" . Very quick to go to the radio , not so quick to cooperate with the guards.

EddieN75 · 05-05-2021 4:03pm

11112 wrote: »

My 5 year old daughter and I were stoned in Windy Arbour playground last year. I am left with a prematurely and rapidly detaching vitreous which leaves me at risk of a detached retina and blindness, 4 more weeks high risk. Aldo have facial nerve damage which is healing and had a cornea abrasion.

The girl, and yes it was a girl that did it managed to avoid even talking to the guards. The guards wanted to give me a caution for kicking the **** out of her, in fairness I stopped once I realised it was a girl. The guard left me off though when the girl failed to cooperate and even give a statement.

Her mother was all over the radio the day after "She might have hit him by accident while playing with stones" . Very quick to go to the radio , not so quick to cooperate with the guards.

Im sorry to hear about what happened to you and your daughter. But after hearing what you did please realise that I am high fiving you through the internet.

05-05-2021 4:08pm

EddieN75 wrote: »

Im sorry to hear about what happened to you and your daughter. But after hearing what you did please realise that I am high fiving you through the internet.

This is how I handled it with the guards. First I went straight to the guards, confessed everything and apologised. Because of this and no past offences the guard was willing to give me a caution. The mother wouldn't accept this and the guard said we have to take a long statement and send it to the DPP with a recommendation of a caution, I agreed to this.

Then the other side refused to come in and give their statement, they kept making appointments and not showing up. They basically wound down the clock to save themselves. The guard knew this and at the end of the 6 months limit he had the option of calling me in and giving me the caution or just letting it slip. He let it slip

05-05-2021 4:10pm

well... Considering what we know about indoctrination and social programming, along with the various aspects of psychology, I wonder why we can't simply take these teens and indoctrinate them into being better members of society?

For those who are squeamish about applying physical punishment, would the application of techniques for indoctrination/brainwashing be more acceptable? (Assuming that it could be done without the physical punishments)

I often think that society today doesn't really want to solve such issues because every way to deal with them is considered to be wrong.. and those that remain are ineffective. I understand that there is the fear of opening Pandora's box, slippery slope and all that, but surely at some point we have to say enough is enough and use what we have to reduce the chance of this kind of behavior from continuing.

tastyt · 05-05-2021 4:11pm

Not into Dublin bashing as iv lived there long enough but the government really need to act to sort the place out .

Absolute scum teenagers everywhere, in town , on beaches , attacking people on the canal , running wild on the luas. It’s making the city an unbearable place really

I just don’t understand the mentality that says they should be pitied and helped sort out their issues, poverty etc . Get them off he streets first and protect your people.

And this nonsense about facilities, some of the areas where a lot of these scrotes come from have things we could only dream about as young lads . Astro turf pitches , sports clubs , skate parks etc . Problem is they are usually vandalised by these the minute they are put in .

You can’t put the cart before the horse . You can’t try to fix the problem by all carrot and no stick while they laugh in the face of anyone trying to help them .

Get them off the streets first , then offer them help if they want it .

Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - **Read OP**

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Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - Read OP