Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

Options
1…9899101103104…233

Comments

  • Options
    #3002
    Sile Na Gig
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Sile Na Gig


    py2006 wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Oh there's no shortage of those guys here if that's what you're looking for.

    Yep, all over the place!

    What percentage do ya think?? :P:P

    Oh dear lord, away with the numbers talk


  • Options
    #3003
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sile Na Gig wrote: »
    In the vacuum the kids learn from porn which isn’t going to help them form real loving relationships with real people.

    Porn is an easy scapegoat. Porn doesn't even try to suggest a connection with real life, and most kids are smart enough to pick up on that. I can't imagine they're more gullible or foolish than I was at that age. I suspect teens learn more odd ideas about sex from Hollywood comedies or general TV shows. And TBH I saw more dodgy sexual ideas from French movies on Channel4 as a teen than in porn. That's changed with more access to porn,, but you're fooling yourself if you think Porn is the only influencer here. Hollywood, and European movies easily have as much bizarre sexual fantasies...
    My experience of religious sex education was to be taught abstinence, never being taught how to use contraception, as a girl the concept of expecting and achieving pleasure was completely not mentioned. So I’d rather not have that for my kids. For all I know, Christian schools might have done a 180 in the last 30 year’s but I’m not going to risk it.

    Whereas (i'm in my early 40s), I went to two marist brothers schools, we had sex education taught to us during the "religion" class periods, and had a variety of teachers some of whom were very clued in, and others who were next to useless. The message wasn't abstinence since the teen pregnancy in my hometown was quite high. The message was precautions, and the use of whatever protection your values allowed. We were taught about all the options out there at the time, and the stance of the Church about them. However most of my teachers had been missionaries in Africa, had zero desire for an Aids epidemic in Ireland, and many of them acted as non-judgmental help to teen mothers in the area. They've got a great reputation in my hometown for being so helpful. They still promoted the Church perspective on things but were generally very practical too.

    And to be clear, I also attended a community college (non-religious secondary school), and there was the same disparity between the quality of education between teachers. The sex-ed I encountered in the state run school was more sterile but less effective than the sex ed I learned in the Marist Brothers.

    There is too much focus on tearing down the Church in this country. I'm not in the least bit religious, but for many people like myself, the Church schools provided quality education with a decent set of morals to base our growth on.


  • Options
    #3004
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Oh there's no shortage of those guys here if that's what you're looking for.

    You'll need feminist approved tinted glasses, but i'm sure LLMMLL will share hers with you.

    Oh, I almost forgot. :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #3005
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Frightening times in Ireland when you see some of the comments here, but the new woke voices in the media and in chat rooms will not be silenced and change is coming.
    Fine weather coming later this week and if ye sexists think ye can look at women wearing revealing clothing ye will have another thing coming. That day is over.
    Just heard a song with the lyrics 'I know what boys want, I know what they like' played on a national broadcaster no less. Such misogynistic garbage, but time is up or very nearly up.


  • Options
    #3006
    py2006
    Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    Oh for the love of...

    Where is that pint??


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3007
    Sile Na Gig
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Sile Na Gig


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Sile Na Gig wrote: »
    In the vacuum the kids learn from porn which isn’t going to help them form real loving relationships with real people.

    Porn is an easy scapegoat. Porn doesn't even try to suggest a connection with real life, and most kids are smart enough to pick up on that. I can't imagine they're more gullible or foolish than I was at that age. I suspect teens learn more odd ideas about sex from Hollywood comedies or general TV shows. And TBH I saw more dodgy sexual ideas from French movies on Channel4 as a teen than in porn. That's changed with more access to porn,, but you're fooling yourself if you think Porn is the only influencer here. Hollywood, and European movies easily have as much bizarre sexual fantasies...
    My experience of religious sex education was to be taught abstinence, never being taught how to use contraception, as a girl the concept of expecting and achieving pleasure was completely not mentioned. So I’d rather not have that for my kids. For all I know, Christian schools might have done a 180 in the last 30 year’s but I’m not going to risk it.

    Whereas (i'm in my early 40s), I went to two marist brothers schools, we had sex education taught to us during the "religion" class periods, and had a variety of teachers some of whom were very clued in, and others who were next to useless. The message wasn't abstinence since the teen pregnancy in my hometown was quite high. The message was precautions, and the use of whatever protection your values allowed. We were taught about all the options out there at the time, and the stance of the Church about them. However most of my teachers had been missionaries in Africa, had zero desire for an Aids epidemic in Ireland, and many of them acted as non-judgmental help to teen mothers in the area. They've got a great reputation in my hometown for being so helpful. They still promoted the Church perspective on things but were generally very practical too.

    And to be clear, I also attended a community college (non-religious secondary school), and there was the same disparity between the quality of education between teachers. The sex-ed I encountered in the state run school was more sterile but less effective than the sex ed I learned in the Marist Brothers.

    There is too much focus on tearing down the Church in this country. I'm not in the least bit religious, but for many people like myself, the Church schools provided quality education with a decent set of morals to base our growth on.

    You have to admit that the majority of porn sets up an unrealistic expectation of what sex will be like, for boys and girls. And when ten and eleven year olds are accessing it they have no idea what’s what if they don’t have a trusted grown up to talk it over with. Hollywood movies are not great either, I agree. The issue is leaving your kids to find stuff out from media rather than having a conversation.

    I’m glad that you were given a decent education. I think your experience shows the disparity between what we taught boys and girls. Ours was abstinence all the way.

    I wanted my kids to be in a mixed school and am in no way religious myself so chose a secular education.


  • Options
    #3008
    py2006
    Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    Sile Na Gig wrote: »
    I wanted my kids to be in a mixed school and am in no way religious myself so chose a secular education.

    I don't have kids but if I did they certainly wouldn't be going to a religous school. How good are these new Educate Together schools in relation to sex ed? Do you know?


  • Options
    #3009
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You'll need feminist approved tinted glasses, but i'm sure LLMMLL will share hers with you.

    Oh, I almost forgot. :rolleyes:

    For someone who says they're not going to engage with me you sure do quote me a lot.


  • Options
    #3010
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sile Na Gig wrote: »
    You have to admit that the majority of porn sets up an unrealistic expectation of what sex will be like, for boys and girls.

    Didn't I just say that?
    And when ten and eleven year olds are accessing it they have no idea what’s what if they don’t have a trusted grown up to talk it over with. Hollywood movies are not great either, I agree. The issue is leaving your kids to find stuff out from media rather than having a conversation.

    By the time they come to actually approaching having sex, they'll have a clearer idea from conversations between friends, their own research on the Internet and/or actual sex ed. My 14 year old niece told my sister that she didn't want "the talk", and then proceeded to show three government health websites she'd explored which explained the birds and the bees to her, along with the Youtube vids for alternative explanations.

    And TBH if it's anything like my experience, they'll learn from their sexual partners what goes where and how. The research I've seen on teen sex in Ireland suggests that most teens are waiting longer before having sex rather than rushing into it at younger ages.
    I’m glad that you were given a decent education. I think your experience shows the disparity between what we taught boys and girls. Ours was abstinence all the way.

    I wanted my kids to be in a mixed school and am in no way religious myself so chose a secular education.

    Which is your choice as a parent.


  • Options
    #3011
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Sile Na Gig wrote: »
    You have to admit that the majority of porn sets up an unrealistic expectation of what sex will be like, for boys and girls. And when ten and eleven year olds are accessing it they have no idea what’s what if they don’t have a trusted grown up to talk it over with. Hollywood movies are not great either, I agree. The issue is leaving your kids to find stuff out from media rather than having a conversation.

    I’m glad that you were given a decent education. I think your experience shows the disparity between what we taught boys and girls. Ours was abstinence all the way.

    I wanted my kids to be in a mixed school and am in no way religious myself so chose a secular education.

    Was it Bill Maher that said that most chick flicks have a plot with the basic premise that the dude is bordering on stalker?. In reality though I doubt anyone picks up dating tips from movies. I'd imagine a feminist rom com would be boring and very short.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3012
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    For someone who says they're not going to engage with me you sure do quote me a lot.

    Engaging in a discussion. I can still highlight your rubbish remarks.


  • Options
    #3013
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Engaging in a discussion. I can still highlight your rubbish remarks.

    Calling LON a bitch and insulting me now.

    Think you're glitching klaz. Time to update your operating system.


  • Options
    #3014
    Sile Na Gig
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Sile Na Gig


    py2006 wrote: »
    Sile Na Gig wrote: »
    I wanted my kids to be in a mixed school and am in no way religious myself so chose a secular education.

    I don't have kids but if I did they certainly wouldn't be going to a religous school. How good are these new Educate Together schools in relation to sex ed? Do you know?

    We don’t go to ET but a school with a similar philosophy. Sex ed is done on a continuum from kindergarten- respect yourself, respect others, get comfortable with articulating your needs and listening to the needs of others. It’s all very open with lots of opportunities to ask questions. I do find that a lot depends on the teacher. One of my kids teachers wasn’t comfortable with talking about sex with the class (he’s gay and I think paranoid about what some parents sadly might think about him having those conversations) so he did a swop with another teacher. They do that all the time though- the teacher that is really good at music takes his guitar to another class and that class’ teacher does painting with his class. They play to their individual strengths.


  • Options
    #3015
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Calling LON a bitch and insulting me now.

    Think you're glitching klaz. Time to update your operating system.
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Oh there's no shortage of those guys here if that's what you're looking for.

    Moral high ground is that way
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


  • Options
    #3016
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Calling LON a bitch and insulting me now.

    Think you're glitching klaz. Time to update your operating system.

    Ah now, this was a perfect time given the latest thread title to use 'browser' in the analogy.

    Wait, is that an analogy?


  • Options
    #3017
    Sile Na Gig
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Sile Na Gig


    silverharp wrote: »

    Was it Bill Maher that said that most chick flicks have a plot with the basic premise that the dude is bordering on stalker?. In reality though I doubt anyone picks up dating tips from movies. I'd imagine a feminist rom com would be boring and very short.

    It only becomes an issue when that’s all they’re getting.

    Most rom coms are pure shyte.


  • Options
    #3018
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Calling LON a bitch and insulting me now.

    Think you're glitching klaz. Time to update your operating system.

    Insulting you? I called your post rubbish.

    You might want to tuck away the victim mentality.

    But hey. While I've never been one to insult others here, I've decided to change that. Lower myself to your level for a bit.


  • Options
    #3019
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Insulting you? I called your post rubbish.

    You might want to tuck away the victim mentality.

    But hey. While I've never been one to insult others here, I've decided to change that. Lower myself to your level for a bit.

    Yeah calling my posts rubbish isn't a personal insult at all.

    And calling LON a bitch. You're so respectful of women.


  • Options
    #3020
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Sile Na Gig wrote: »
    It only becomes an issue when that’s all they’re getting.

    Most rom coms are pure shyte.

    on the plus side young men don't watch them so if the model of relationship in them is "wrong" then its young women that are getting the wrong messages.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Options
    #3021
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    silverharp wrote: »
    Was it Bill Maher that said that most chick flicks have a plot with the basic premise that the dude is bordering on stalker?

    The other broad sub-genre is the one where she triumphs after initially being treated contemptuously...

    See how many of these conform to either premise...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3022
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,143 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    py2006 wrote: »
    I think one of the most repulsive and offensive things that that comes out of LONs colourful little mind is the phenomenon of 'Rape Culture' and its stranglehold on Ireland.

    Its a vile and misandric attack on men

    If anything, we have a drinking culture.

    How is it an attack on men?
    has she ever said that all men are rapists? That irish people are rapey? has she said that it's as prevalent as drinking?

    You do realise that when someone says rape culture exists it doesn't mean that all men are rapists. It doesn't even mean that a majority are. It means that some people are willing to sweep it under the rug. Some people think rape is a minor issue. Some people side with a rapist rather than a victim.

    It's not saying that irish culture = rape culture. It's not saying that men = rapist.

    A good example would be what happened in the Kerry rape trial where a group of men shook the hand of the rapist after the trial. That is an instance of rape culture. Now that doesn't mean that it's widespread. It's not making a judgement on men or anyone from Kerry. It's not passing judgement on people from Ireland. It's just one instance. But it does mean that anyone who says it doesn't exist is wrong.
    I would say that the number of people who would be willing to shake the hand if a rapist as they are convicted is really small but I would say that they exist.

    And if you want to take that as a personal insult, work away. If you think what I said is an attack on men go ahead. But you'd be wrong. I'd like to think I've been clear enough to make sure no-one can think that.


  • Options
    #3023
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    cantdecide wrote: »
    The other broad sub-genre is the one where she triumphs after initially being treated contemptuously...

    See how many of these conform to either premise...

    I guess that while predictable is similar enough to the male versions of these movies and its not a negative trope

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Options
    #3024
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Yeah calling my posts rubbish isn't a personal insult at all.

    And calling LON a bitch. You're so respectful of women.

    If he likes his sister, his aunt and his co-worker Susan, that makes it 3-2 and that means that he likes women. I hate Susan though, she is a bitch.


  • Options
    #3025
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    And calling LON a bitch. You're so respectful of women.

    You can still be respectful of women and call 1 woman a bitch


  • Options
    #3026
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,143 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    silverharp wrote: »
    Was it Bill Maher that said that most chick flicks have a plot with the basic premise that the dude is bordering on stalker?. In reality though I doubt anyone picks up dating tips from movies. I'd imagine a feminist rom com would be boring and very short.

    I don't think so but I know what you mean. All two often in Rom Com's the women are absolutely insane. If they're not the guy is. And if neither are .... actually I can't think of one where neither are.

    I think a feminist one would be possible.Rom-com's are generally the following format.

    1) Set up the guy or girl as someone special that deserves to meet someone special
    2) Meet cute. The two people meet in a cute manner.
    3) They have a great time together and meet each others whacky friends.
    4) There's a misunderstanding.
    5) They work it out in the finale.

    There's no reason there couldn't be a rom-com with a feminist theme. The problem is that whenever anyone makes any movie with a political theme it nearly always feels like it's been forced in. And that goes for any political movie.


  • Options
    #3027
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Grayson wrote: »
    A good example would be what happened in the Kerry rape trial where a group of men shook the hand of the rapist after the trial. That is an instance of rape culture. Now that doesn't mean that it's widespread. It's not making a judgement on men or anyone from Kerry. It's not passing judgement on people from Ireland. It's just one instance. But it does mean that anyone who says it doesn't exist is wrong.

    That argument has been done and been shown up already umpteen times. The whole country was absolutely appalled at that. That's why it became a talking point at all. That behavior was roundly rejected by everyone I've spoken to and by everyone I've seen comment on it. It's not an instance of rape culture, it's a group of fcuking backward troglodytes being backward troglodytes.


  • Options
    #3028
    givyjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Yeah calling my posts rubbish isn't a personal insult at all.

    And calling LON a bitch. You're so respectful of women.

    Logic fail there Louise.. yesterday you were saying that labeling posts as low intelligence was not a personal attack.. but today someone labeling your posts as rubbish is? :confused::pac:

    Klaz has already said he regretted using those words, calling one irksome troll that doesn't mean he thinks the same of all women.


  • Options
    #3029
    Sile Na Gig
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Sile Na Gig


    silverharp wrote: »
    Sile Na Gig wrote: »
    It only becomes an issue when that’s all they’re getting.

    Most rom coms are pure shyte.

    on the plus side young men don't watch them so if the model of relationship in them is "wrong" then its young women that are getting the wrong messages.

    I think one thing that you can take away from LON’s writing is that both boys and girls are getting the wrong messages. No one is teaching them to just say what they want. The amount of mind games going on in these things are ridiculous. I met my husband before dating was a thing in Ireland but from what I see of how people form relationships nowadays (friends on tinder etc) there seems to be a lot of messing around/weird rules about texting etc etc. It doesn’t seem particularly healthy. But I suppose neither was having a great feed of pints and hopping into bed...


  • Options
    #3030
    py2006
    Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    Grayson wrote: »
    How is it an attack on men?
    has she ever said that all men are rapists? That irish people are rapey? has she said that it's as prevalent as drinking?

    You do realise that when someone says rape culture exists it doesn't mean that all men are rapists. It doesn't even mean that a majority are. It means that some people are willing to sweep it under the rug. Some people think rape is a minor issue. Some people side with a rapist rather than a victim.

    It's not saying that irish culture = rape culture. It's not saying that men = rapist.


    Well then Culture is the wrong word. Culture suggests prevalence in our society. An acceptance as a norm. It clearly isn't.

    It is clearly a provocative term that is going to offend and anger people. But I don't think LON is out to do that, I think she actually believes it exists.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3031
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Sile Na Gig wrote: »
    I think one thing that you can take away from LON’s writing is that both boys and girls are getting the wrong messages.

    It's nearly always put across though that our young men need consent classes. That's not fair. Everyone or no-one.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement