Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

Grayson

givyjoe wrote: »

What?! 20% or 50-60% of ALL MEN

You do realise that if someone says 20% of all men. they are not making a statement about all men.

If I quote the stats for men convicted of rape and say that 0.01% (I'm literally pulling that figure out of my ass) of all men are rapists, I'm not saying that ALL men are rapists.

Grayson

Mickeroo wrote: »

Why no Microsoft Edge? Though maybe she needs Internet Explorer because the newer browsers aren't compatible with her.

because even the people who dislike her and say she's a danger won't go so far as to say she uses edge. It'd be like saying she owns a zune. No-one's going to go that far

Gravelly

Grayson wrote: »

You do realise that if someone says 20% of all men. they are not making a statement about all men.

Eh.........

RabbleRouser2k

Omackeral wrote: »

Watched 37 seconds of that. I’m now off to dye my hair blue, cut my fringe into a short straight line and have my nose pierced with something ridiculous.

(You also have to get yourself castrated so that you're an asexual being who denounces men).

What is it with feminism and stuff you do/ did in playschool? Like, the paper stuff, the toys, the 'pencil lamps'?

It's all so childish (and they that in the video too).

Sile Na Gig

Deleted User wrote: »

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

I read two of her books and I thought they were quite good. Except that all of the women in them were horrible to each other.

Am I doing this right?

Doing what right?

A little detail might be useful.

Well one of them was a sort of handmaids tale with social media. The other was about a girl who is raped, and a video shared on social media. Both of them were pretty depressing. They had aspects of real life but exaggerated for emphasis, I guess?

Sile Na Gig

py2006 wrote: »

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

I read two of her books and I thought they were quite good. Except that all of the women in them were horrible to each other.

Am I doing this right?

How did the men fair out?

The lads seemed to be just as much victims of the patriarchy as the women. Lots of pressure to be successful sexually, financially, on the sports field. Everyone seemed pretty miserable and unable to communicate in any kind of genuine way.

Sunny Disposition

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

The lads seemed to be just as much victims of the patriarchy as the women. Lots of pressure to be successful sexually, financially, on the sports field. Everyone seemed pretty miserable and unable to communicate in any kind of genuine way.

This is the kind of existence that Louise is doing her utmost to elevate us away from through her immense commentary!

Boom_Bap

Mickeroo wrote: »

Why no Microsoft Edge? Though maybe she needs Internet Explorer because the newer browsers aren't compatible with her.

Doubt it, she has Mac user written all over her!

:pac::D

givyjoe

Grayson wrote: »

You do realise that if someone says 20% of all men. they are not making a statement about all men.

If I quote the stats for men convicted of rape and say that 0.01% (I'm literally pulling that figure out of my ass) of all men are rapists, I'm not saying that ALL men are rapists.

:eek: So you agree, that if say someone says 50% of ALL MEN (that's 1 in 2 so you're not confused) have committed sexual assault, that I would indeed be as you put it, pulling figures out of my ass and could possibly be accused of being bereft of common sense?

Kimbot

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Doubt it, she has Mac user written all over her!

:pac::D

Jesus, you think she would wash that off like :P

RabbleRouser2k

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

The lads seemed to be just as much victims of the patriarchy as the women. Lots of pressure to be successful sexually, financially, on the sports field. Everyone seemed pretty miserable and unable to communicate in any kind of genuine way.

Isn't there an attempted rape of a male by one of the female characters as well? Doesn't even get a blink from people, but a youtuber pointed that out in a review. It got her attention.

Louise was saying her book was going to be made into a film or something-but it's actually adapted for a play-seems a tad underwhelming in terms of adaptations.

Grayson

givyjoe wrote: »

:eek: So you agree, that if say someone says 50% of ALL MEN (that's 1 in 2 so you're not confused) have committed sexual assault, that I would indeed be as you put it, pulling figures out of my ass and could possibly be accused of being bereft of common sense?

I asked who made a statement about all men and you replied with 20% of ALL men. (You used the capitals for emphasis, not me)

That's not a statement about ALL men. That's a statement about 20% of men.

That's how percentages work.

Sile Na Gig

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

The lads seemed to be just as much victims of the patriarchy as the women. Lots of pressure to be successful sexually, financially, on the sports field. Everyone seemed pretty miserable and unable to communicate in any kind of genuine way.

Isn't there an attempted rape of a male by one of the female characters as well? Doesn't even get a blink from people, but a youtuber pointed that out in a review. It got her attention.

Louise was saying her book was going to be made into a film or something-but it's actually adapted for a play-seems a tad underwhelming in terms of adaptations.

Not in either of the books I read.

Every time she opens her mouth about rape a bunch of people seem to point out that men can be rape victims too. Which is not wrong. But ironically, changing society so that we have less proscribed ideas of how men and women should be would be of benefit to male victims too.

But unfortunately we seem doomed to shout at one another instead of figuring out rational ways to make our world better for everyone.

givyjoe

Grayson wrote: »

I asked who made a statement about all men and you replied with 20% of ALL men. (You used the capitals for emphasis, not me)

That's not a statement about ALL men. That's a statement about 20% of men.

That's how percentages work.

FFS, would you ever read the thread your commenting on! Or even the specific post I quoted, from the poster CLAIMING that all men, oh sorry, every second man, is guilty of sexual assault. Talk about splitting hairs.

Shadowstrife

Why do people keep dumping on Louise O Neill? Is it just the old Irish jealousy of people who are successful at what they love?

Shadowstrife

Shadowstrife wrote: »

Why do people keep dumping on Louise O Neill? Is it just the old Irish jealousy of people who are successful at what they love?

Yes..this is a begrudging thread..if you're not going to respect that kindly leave..

Omackeral

Grayson wrote: »

I asked who made a statement about all men and you replied with 20% of ALL men. (You used the capitals for emphasis, not me)

That's not a statement about ALL men. That's a statement about 20% of men.

I posted it twice now and both times you’ve ignored it. Here’s one of our very own posters denigrating ALL Irish men.

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I like men...outside Ireland.

Sile Na Gig

She’s the face of the feminazi bogeyman, creeping down your hallway in the dead of night with her big kitchen scissors, coming to take your balls...or something

Shadowstrife

Shadowstrife wrote: »

Why do people keep dumping on Louise O Neill? Is it just the old Irish jealousy of people who are successful at what they love?

Unlikely. I'd guess its more the case of someone who chose a very public life, who seeks the attention of other people, and as such, is fair game to be remarked upon, either positively or negatively.

Although, I must admit it must be nice to be able to make sexist remarks on the media or social media networks and not be labeled a creep. In fact, it must be nice that so many people jump to her defense when her statements (which could easily be considered misandry) are criticized.

Hook was lambasted for what he said about the responsibility of women... LON says more more than Hook did, and gets away crystal clean. I think it's quite reasonable to have a thread on boards to bash her behavior just a wee bit.

Mickeroo

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

She’s the face of the feminazi bogeyman, creeping down your hallway in the dead of night with her big kitchen scissors, coming to take your balls...or something

"kitchen" scissors? Bit sexist that.

_Kaiser_

LLMMLL wrote: »

How individual men or women feel about being childless is a different thing to how they are viewed by society.

Can you honestly say a childless 40 year old woman and a childless 40 year old man are talked about in the exact same way on average?

In my experience, the people talking about 40 year old childless women are mainly.... other women!

A friend of mine fits your description, but any pressure she's felt over the years has come from comments by female friends, her mother and sisters and a media industry that bombards women with a false ideal and commiserates with them if they haven't achieved it yet.

In her case, she was too influenced by this notion of "Mr Right" (there IS no such guy btw!) and nonsense like Sex and the City, with the result being that she never really got to know a guy for who he IS, not who she EXPECTED/hoped he'd be.

From my perspective as a man? Would I like to see her happy?.. yes! Do I think she needs a man/kids to be "successful".. nope! Do I see her/treat her any differently because she isn't paired off with a few kids.. absolutely not!

Why? Because it has nothing to do with who she is as a person or my friendship with her.

RabbleRouser2k

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

Not in either of the books I read.

Every time she opens her mouth about rape a bunch of people seem to point out that men can be rape victims too. Which is not wrong. But ironically, changing society so that we have less proscribed ideas of how men and women should be would be of benefit to male victims too.

But unfortunately we seem doomed to shout at one another instead of figuring out rational ways to make our world better for everyone.

Link further down-but this is the one I mentioned.

I don't understand your point-we've 'changed society' in a great deal-in the last 40 years. And it's still not gotten rid of rape. So how do you want to benefit victims?

It's this one, this review I mean that pointed it out. She starts talking about it at the 10 minute mark. The book is Asking for It.

As the youtuber points out, the book skims over the personal responsibility angle, and that it's not complex enough. Also, the attempted assault is the one with the character 'Connor'.

Shadowstrife

Well I guess I'd like to thank Louise O Neill for raising the profile of the horrific Steubenville Ohio rape case. I was chatting to a few friends who knew frick all about it.

RabbleRouser2k

Shadowstrife wrote: »

Well I guess I'd like to thank Louise O Neill for raising the profile of the horrific Steubenville Ohio rape case. I was chatting to a few friends who knew frick all about it.

Really? I remember it was covered fairly well in the media, not just O'Neill.
Everything from Joe Biden supporting the victim alone was fairly well covered.

But then again many people don't watch the news/ read the paper-not condemning, it's just there's so much choice media wise.

I remember discussing the whole Jamie Bulger case with a friend-and he had no clue about it. It was to do with discussing horror movies, and the different one's like Childs Play and led on to that.
To say he was shocked was an understatement. Around that time there was an anniversary of his death (Bulger) and it had been in the papers.

Sile Na Gig

Mickeroo wrote: »

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

She’s the face of the feminazi bogeyman, creeping down your hallway in the dead of night with her big kitchen scissors, coming to take your balls...or something

"kitchen" scissors? Bit sexist that.

Oh I was going to say sewing scissors but thought better of it...loppers? Garden shears? Bolt cutters?

currants

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes..this is a begrudging thread..if you're not going to respect that kindly leave..

Far better to stay and begrudge them their begrudgery no?

LLMMLL

py2006 wrote: »

Just because men don't or won't or can't talk about sexual harassment doesn't mean it doesn't happen or happens far less than to women.

Nor should male victims be dismissed because there is less of them.

Yes it does happen to men. They are harassed by other men.

It is not the case that women sexually harass men to an even vaguely similar level.

_Kaiser_

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Link further down-but this is the one I mentioned.

I don't understand your point-we've 'changed society' in a great deal-in the last 40 years. And it's still not gotten rid of rape. So how do you want to benefit victims?

It's this one, this review I mean that pointed it out. She starts talking about it at the 10 minute mark. The book is Asking for It.

As the youtuber points out, the book skims over the personal responsibility angle, and that it's not complex enough. Also, the attempted assault is the one with the character 'Connor'.

I actually watched that video and it's a very decent and balanced review I thought... but it seems that Louise's simplistic life view/agenda pushing and poor writing didn't win her over. I'd agree with her that the scene with "Conor" is very odd and contradicts the whole notion of the book.

The reviewer seems a lot more copped on and responsible than the author anyway.

LLMMLL

givyjoe wrote: »

Eh, have you not been reading the thread?! Sure anywhere between 20-60% of men have harassed women.. based on personal experiences. Judging may be the wrong, making completely unverifiable claims as to the % of men who have committed sexual assault, would be more accurate.

I'm literally referring to posts from this thread, it's not in anyone's head.

Your attention to detail could do with a little work, the comments attributed to LON were she considered all men to be POTENTIAL rapists.

20-60% covers 40% of the possibility space. You're really overreacting to the use of numbers over words.

You can translate it to "I don't believe it's a tiny minority or a huge majority".

Nobody has an issue with tipp_gunner saying it's a tiny minority which would be maybe 0-10% and is a far more restricted statement than what I said.

Sile Na Gig

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

Not in either of the books I read.

Every time she opens her mouth about rape a bunch of people seem to point out that men can be rape victims too. Which is not wrong. But ironically, changing society so that we have less proscribed ideas of how men and women should be would be of benefit to male victims too.

But unfortunately we seem doomed to shout at one another instead of figuring out rational ways to make our world better for everyone.

Link further down-but this is the one I mentioned.

I don't understand your point-we've 'changed society' in a great deal-in the last 40 years. And it's still not gotten rid of rape. So how do you want to benefit victims?

It's this one, this review I mean that pointed it out. She starts talking about it at the 10 minute mark. The book is Asking for It.

As the youtuber points out, the book skims over the personal responsibility angle, and that it's not complex enough. Also, the attempted assault is the one with the character 'Connor'.

I do remember that scene. As I said before both the boys and girls in the book are terrible. I thought that it showed how ****ed up all of the kids were, the girls needing validation by being seen as desirable. It’s not excusable, it’s yet another example of how media and a lack of proper sex education lets kids down. From what I recall the original rape scene was all the lads sort of egging each other on- more of a crime of their culture than individual badness.

I think about it a lot as I have sons. On one hand we have changed society in the last thirty years but there’s also more pressure on these kids than ever to present a certain way. I want my boys to grow up respecting women and being able to understand and express their emotions off the football field, not feel like they have to exhibit a certain picture of masculinity in order to be accepted.

I don’t think that a society without sexual violence is possible, but I do think that we can try to do better.