travellers in flash cars??

OMcGovern · 30-12-2005 12:56am

nlgbbbblth wrote:

That's not to say there are no bad travellers - of course there are. But to brand them as all pr*cks is not right.

I don't like their accents though.

I didn't brand them all as pr*cks....... I said parasites who don't contribute anything to Irish society.

I've been the victim of the 'creamers, twice in my lifetime.
And I have stories from 2 mates of other incidents of violence.

Maybe there's a minority of them who learnt to behave themselves or else lose their rental accomodation, but I view the families who live in littered campsites as lawless criminal gangs.

Trust me... no amount of responses will change my view.

nlgbbbblth · 30-12-2005 12:57am

The vast majority of hassle/grief I have gotten in my life has not come from travellers or foreigners.

but from
white
working class
males

Scum.

the_menace · 30-12-2005 1:09am

OMcGovern wrote:

Trust me... no amount of responses will change my view.

No, me neither. Which is kind of why I stopped posting on this thread. I've experienced it first hand dozens of times and although I accept that not all travellers are vicious pieces of work, my life experience has shown me what the travelling community at large is like. Knowing you're right and arguing with people with 'opinions' is like banging your head off a wall.

Sam Vimes · 30-12-2005 3:12am

BizMaker wrote:

I believe that travellers have a right to co-exist with the settled community and I would hate to see the extinction of their traditional way of life. But, and there is always a ‘but’, they must live within the confines of the law.

i believe that preserving their way of life and living within the confines of the law are mutually exclusive goals

Sam Vimes · 30-12-2005 3:14am

billy the squid wrote:

you owe me a euro.

aw crap, how many members does boards have exaclty?

/checks pocket for change

/points and says "look over there

>"

/runs

demanufactured · 30-12-2005 3:48am

This is our life sir

dats rite pa

we drives up and down the contry all the time sir...we looks out the front winda the side winda and the back winda.
thats our country out there sir.
we love it.....all the stelled people with theyr big sad faces...they all say that the travelers is the same.
all blacks are the same . . . the chinese.....SAME TUNE ME HOLE!!!!

bounty · 30-12-2005 7:52am

being uneducated should be made a crime

Beer is Life · 30-12-2005 8:09am

demanufactured wrote:

This is our life sir

dats rite pa

we drives up and down the contry all the time sir...we looks out the front winda the side winda and the back winda.
thats our country out there sir.
we love it.....all the stelled people with theyr big sad faces...they all say that the travelers is the same.
all blacks are the same . . . the chinese.....SAME TUNE ME HOLE!!!!

I too am finished with this, its only going to go in circles

TheBazman · 30-12-2005 8:38am

I live in County Limerick - every year hundreds of travellers come back to Rathkeale which appears to be their homeland. They always come back with flash cars. In years gone by it would be top of the range Mercs and Beemers. However recently they have downscaled a bit - this year it was top of the range VW passats and Kia jeeps. Most of their money appears to be made from dodgy businesses like putting down tarmacadam in Germany and Spain, although realistically something else has to be going on - illegal. However given the downscaling in cars in recent years, the money from their illegal activities must be drying up

Hobbes · 30-12-2005 8:50am

Beer is Life wrote:

I too am finished with this, its only going to go in circles

Or rather you can't answer anything that has been addressed to you. For example.

You: consider majority are criminals
- Yet you don't how much of the majority is nor do you say how you came to that conclusion.

You: Mention you worked with traveller kids who are disadvantaged by thier lifestyle.
- Yet you don't list in what way (professional opinion?) to help in combatting this, I assume just a dismissal of "ah sure they will probably be criminals anyway".

Tusky wrote:

Why is this ? Whos fault is this ?

There are a large number of factors that are the cause of this. Not caring about thier children? Where do you get this from? Traveller culture actually treats children as adults at an early age and are trained in the familys traveller econmy at a earlier age.

If I bought a caravan and parked on the side of the road, leaving rubbish around the place I would EXPECT to be moved on.

Except that a lot of the moving on refers to actual legitimate halting sites as well.

this is purely a TAX issue.

How do you come to that conclusion?

IF YOU LIVE AT THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AND DONT GET RID OF YOUR RUBBISH YOU ARE GOING TO GET RATS.

Again refers to legal halting sites.

Hobbes · 30-12-2005 8:52am

TheBazman wrote:

However given the downscaling in cars in recent years, the money from their illegal activities must be drying up

Again how do you come to the conclusion it is illegal dealings? Pointed out earlier some travellers make good money from Traveller based work and in the recent years a lot of that has gone away. For example horse trading.

the_menace · 30-12-2005 10:38am

Hobbes wrote:

Again how do you come to the conclusion it is illegal dealings? Pointed out earlier some travellers make good money from Traveller based work and in the recent years a lot of that has gone away. For example horse trading.

How many travellers do you know/have you met? Do you have any life experience or are you just sounding off?

Hobbes · 30-12-2005 10:41am

the_menace wrote:

How many travellers do you know/have you met? Do you have any life experience or are you just sounding off?

You already asked me that question and I already answered it. Not my fault you can't read.

derek27 · 30-12-2005 11:34am

i have had many experiences with knackers over the years, especially in ballinasloe and athlone, and, i've taken quite some time to think about it, not one of them was good. but the thing i will point out in relation to that fact is that i haven't met any decent travellers; as these people generally keep to themselves and dont bother anyone, that's why i haven't met any of them. i make a distinction between the terms knacker and traveller:

i call a person that is known to me to be troublesome and wreckless in all the ways people have pointed out in this thread, ie: scamming social welfare, not paying taxes, deliberately both physically and emotionally harming other people, stealing, vandalising, etc. as being knackers - and indeed knackers, as i refer to them, come from both the settled and travelling communities; but, in my opinion and in my experience, there seems to be a much greater porportion of them arising from travelling communities.

traveller refers simply to a way of life, and while i wouldn't live that way, they are happy to do so. this is based on statements they made themselves, and i know of many of them that had been offered accommodation with local authorities and refused it without a thought. people are afraid of change, and they have had this way of life for generations, and are reluctant to move away from it. point to note here... after the famine in ireland, a great deal of the people left in ireland after the mass emmigration were travellers, so a valid point has to be made that a sizable proportion of the people in ireland today may not have to go too deep into their family tree to find that they themselves, although settled now, descended from travellers.

my first experience with knackers goes back to when i was only ten... two knackers come along and kidnapped myself and my sister (not even 9 at the time) from the street at the front of our house and took us to a nearby football pitch, tied both of us to a goalpost, and proceeded to cut all my sisters hair with a broken glass bottle, beat us, and steal everything we had, while they laughed their silly heads off. nice way to be introduced to their kind. and before Hoobes asks how i know they are knackers in any of these things i mention, refer back to my definition of a knacker, and the statement i made about most of them coming from travelling communities (even if i didn't know they were from traveller communities at the time of their attacks or ill-treatment of me or others that i know suffered at their hands, this becomes clear to me at some stage afterwards). not to go into too much detail, here are some other personal experiences... car stolen and written off... friends and i attacked for money and phones in which i suffered 3 hairline fractures in my skull and one of my friends got stabbed in the arm (when this went to court, i was relentlessly menaced by them to drop the charges; i didn't, only to discover that on the court day, i myself was facing an assault charge because they said i hit them first, (they concocted that idea with their free-legal-aid solicitor) i then dropped all charges against them to avoid getting a criminal charge myself - i've a spotless record - and told the judge that the next person they attack might get killed) - legal system seems to protecct the knackers more than their victims... been robbed a few times at knifepoint... this list could go on a bit, so i'll move onto some other points.

i know of a few traveller halting sites and residential areas where things have gone awry... know of plenty of riots and fueds that have ended up with the army being called out to try to contain the situation, and some people suffering horrific injuries as a result... i know of a number of murders that have been committed by them... in one halting site that was being developed, the residents pulled down all the wiring that was installed so that they would have electricity, burnt the insulation off it and sold the copper wire, along with some copper piping that was left by for provisions of water supply for the same site (sabotaging their own homes!)... a residential area in which the council tried to give it a lift by planting trees and shrubs all over it, only to find the next day all the shrubs and saplings had been destroyed by the residents - they replanted on two occaisions only for the same thing to happen... this elaboration could go on a bit aswell.

i know some travellers at college. they are decent. they have survived through the education system and made it to 3rd level, and are doing quite well in their lives BUT in order to do this, they had to completely turn their back on other travellers, even their own families, to achieve this and integrate properly with general people. this i know, because after getting to know and befriending 2 of them, after a while they told me themselves. they say they regret meeting anyone from their previous community whilst with any of their newfound friends at college etc. for fear of embarrassment.

so the issue rages on... give them a break or beware of them... my personal input based on my personal experiences is that if they interact with you, they are not nice people... the nice ones wouldn't talk to you to begin with, as they are content to stay among themselves.

Villain · 30-12-2005 11:47am

I haven't read all of the posts but just wanted to add a little experience of mine.

I used to walk home from secondary school every day and every thursday I would pass the Livestock mart and there would be a lady member of the travelling community going into the Mart Canteen to get the scraps, now that is not that odd. You would think they were just people who were short on cash and wanted some food.

However the lady would always exit a newly registered Jeep worth over £25,000. I always thought how odd that was, they had to get scraps from the mart to eat but could drive a new jeep and going what I know most members of the travelling community purchase their vechicles using cash!!!

Litcagral · 30-12-2005 11:56am

A lot of the anti-traveller posters appear to be under the impression that they can instantly identify travellers. They could have dealings with travellers daily and be unaware of it. Not all travellers have a 'Traveller accent' especially in Dublin. A very busy Statoil filling station in the greater Dublin area employs two Travellers and a large supermarket, also in the greater Dublin area also employs at least two travellers. A former employer of mine was married to a traveller who also used to work occasionally for the company. I was there for months before I knew she came from the travelling community. People may have normal dealings with travellers on a daily basis and be unaware of it. Next time you pay the girl at the checkout in you local supermarket or pay for your fuel, think about this.

A previous poster said that travellers only work 'cash in hand'. I'm sure many do, just like many settled people, but not all. Do filling stations and supermarkets pay like this? Some travellers were employer as actors in 'Glenroe'. Do people seriously believe that RTE or the production company are paying 'cash in hand'?

You can't sell any product without a market. Furniture, fireplaces, tarmacadam, car parts etc. are probably bought mainly by the settled community. If no one purchased these, travellers would not be selling them. It's a bit hypocritical to purchase these items and then vilify Travellers for selling them.

Just because one gives the other side in a forum, does'nt necessarily mean one is 'pro' Traveller. I like to think that the underdog in a debate deserves a chance. It's very easy to be anti-Traveller among settled people. Would anti-traveller posters express their views in a similiar manner in a public venue? Somehow I doubt it. It's very easy to be abusive while being anonymous and in the knowledge that most Travellers probably do not have easy access to the Internet to give a decent response.

Well done Hobbes for going down the difficult avenue.

derek27 · 30-12-2005 12:04pm

irish1 wrote:

However the lady would always exit a newly registered Jeep worth over £25,000. I always thought how odd that was, they had to get scraps from the mart to eat but could drive a new jeep and going what I know most members of the travelling community purchase their vechicles using cash!!!

scraps could have been for a dog or other pet. many decent travellers are well equipped with vast knowledge on how to save money, which probably helps them afford flash cars. knackers dont bother to try and save money; if they are short of it, they go and rob it.

Villain · 30-12-2005 12:10pm

The scraps were for them not their pets, I know people who worked in the mart, they were particular about would and wouldn't take too.

I have no problem with the travelling community in my area, majority of them are sound, nicer than some of the settled people, I just awlays found this a bit odd.

derek27 · 30-12-2005 12:21pm

human judgement is plagued with inconsistency, that is why people differ in opinion. opinions are generally made by individuals drawing from their own experiences with regard to the issue under scrutiny, if they have no such experiences, then their opinion is almost always one of a neutral standing. therefore, i propose that anybody that has remained neutral within this thread, have had no experience with travellers or knackers, those who are anti-knacker have had unfavourable experiences with them, and those who are pro-knacker have had good experiences with them or have some connection with them. so this thread will go on forever with opinions based on personal experiences. having read all the posts, i estimate about 70% of the opinions have been 'anti'. so what, if any, conclusions can be drawn?

Tusky · 30-12-2005 1:15pm

Hobbes wrote:

There are a large number of factors that are the cause of this. Not caring about thier children? Where do you get this from? Traveller culture actually treats children as adults at an early age and are trained in the familys traveller econmy at a earlier age.

It was in reference to the fact that only 10% go to secondary school. That leads me to believe that the parents dont care about their childrens furture. A fair assumtion, no ?

Except that a lot of the moving on refers to actual legitimate halting sites as well.

halting sites are not supposed to be preminant palces of residence...they are travellers after all.

How do you come to that conclusion?

because its a fact... medical card funds are paid by tax payers money. If you dont pay tax, you shouldnt be entitled to one. do you think this is unfair ?

Again refers to legal halting sites.

I consider living at the side of the road to including halting sites. If you leave your rubbish around ( as many travellers do ) you are going to get rats...simple as that.

deisedevil · 30-12-2005 1:26pm

Some hard facts as a traveller.
- You are more likely to die younger then normal Irish population (avg 12 years)
This is because of the hard life they CHOOSE to live!!!

- child mortality rate (births) is over double the norm for Ireland.
They have so many and they don't look after them properly!

- You are more likely not be able to read or write.
Their parents put no importance on education and they move around throughout their young lives making it hard to get a proper education.

- You are less likely to get a job in Ireland as a traveller.
People are sick of giving them chances only to have their trust thrown in their faces. I have seen plenty of them get jobs and only ever seen one in my town who wasn't fired for robbing or causing trouble. They don't want jobs anyways!

- You are liable to be moved on (eviction) with no warning. This is in areas where they are legally allowed to park thier caravans.
That's absolute bull!! They can't be evicted from legal halting sites. Where did ya get that crap?

- You are more likely not to have basic amenities others have like running water/toilets.
They are given all those in halting sites but they turn around and destroy them! I have seen the halting site locally get destroyed so many times. My father works in the council and he worked on a halting site, they put in so much stuff and the place looked great, they were in there A WEEK!!! and they made bits of every toilet, pulled the roofs off the wash rooms all the tiles etc! they sprayed grafitti all over all the buldings and started fires all over the place and burnt everything they pulled out of the buldings. Also if i chose to head off in my caravan in the morning i can't complain if i no longer have running water and electricity, i chose to go living in areas where there is none so it's tough luck, what are the government supposed to do, put running water and free electricity in every lay by and area someone might illegally pull up a caravan.

- You are more likely to be faced with hostility from others on a day to day basis.
And you are more likely to be faced with hostility when trying to deal with travellers. I had to deal with them on a daily basis and was constantly being threatened and harrassed!

- You are less likely to get a medical card.
Why????

- Despite what people are claiming they do not get free houses and are more likely to be denied housing vs non-travellers.
Rubbish!! Most of them don't want houses and i have seen a few who did get them and destroyed them and moved on. Same as they do with the halting sites they are given.

- Your area is most likely to be infested with rats.
What area? The outside of your caravan where you throw all your rubbish and excrement? Damn right it will be if you can't keep your area clean. I don't throw all my ****e out my window and as a result i don't have a rat problem. Simple.

- You are liable to be banned for no reason from various establishments. (despite this being illegal)
NO REASON?? You obviously haven't seen what they get up to when they go into pubs and night clubs. Obviously there are always going to be fights etc. in pubs but i have seen them cause so much bloody trouble in the past that if i had a pub i wouldn't be serving them drink, i'd do anything i could to keep them out. And why is it that when there are knacker weddings in a town the pubs lock their doors?? Is it cause they are just racist and don't like travellers, NO It's cause they don't like having their bars smashed to bits and their customers abused, it's that simple, f-all to do with racism. Travellers now go around trying to do their best to not get served and catch it on a camera so they can sue whoever refused them, it's a disgrace.

- You are liable to have your stuff taken by the Garda even when you can legally prove it is yours.
More absoulte rubbish! The gardai will take it off them if they can't prove where they got it same as any other vendor or seller has to be able to prove where they got their merchandise or anyone suspected of theft will have to prove where they bought something. They don't take half enough off them as it is!

- They do have to pay taxes (halting sites are fixed abodes), Some may not but does not mean that what they are doing is legal.
They are parasites end of story. They don't pay their way and they take whatever they can even if it is illegal, they have NO regard for the law!

I'm so sick of the sympathy travellers get. They chose their lives, they bring any hardships they have on themselves and unlike other races the MAJORITY give the MINORITY a bad name!! I have had dealings with many travellers and have only ever come across one of them who i could get on with and is a respected member of the community.Why is he a respected member of the community? Because besides being part of a family known for trouble and criminality he got himself a job. He doesn't go around getting in fights and causing grief for people and he's generally a very nice person to deal with unlike the majority of travellers. Yes there's criminals and trouble makers in every community and evry group of people you might come across but there are far more on average in travellers, very very few have even a decent cell in their body!

Victor · 30-12-2005 2:15pm

TheBazman wrote:

I live in County Limerick - every year hundreds of travellers come back to Rathkeale which appears to be their homeland. They always come back with flash cars. In years gone by it would be top of the range Mercs and Beemers. However recently they have downscaled a bit - this year it was top of the range VW passats and Kia jeeps. Most of their money appears to be made from dodgy businesses like putting down tarmacadam in Germany and Spain, although realistically something else has to be going on - illegal. However given the downscaling in cars in recent years, the money from their illegal activities must be drying up

Based on the profuse numbers of flash cars in Dublin 4 & 6 then, we had better convert those areas into prisons and cut off the Heiniken supply.

Hobbes · 30-12-2005 2:18pm

Tusky wrote:

It was in reference to the fact that only 10% go to secondary school. That leads me to believe that the parents dont care about their childrens furture. A fair assumtion, no ?

You know what they say about assumptions. You are telling me every single traveller child that didn't make it to secondary school is only because of thier parents?

Nothing to do with not being able to get placement in secondary schools? Any other reasons?

halting sites are not supposed to be preminant palces of residence...they are travellers after all.

Wrong. According to Irish law there are only 3 halting sites in Ireland where they allow travellers to move around in. The rest if you move there you get evicted (without warning).

because its a fact... medical card funds are paid by tax payers money. If you dont pay tax, you shouldnt be entitled to one. do you think this is unfair ?

Which brings me back to the same question. Can you tell me where you came to the conclusion that travellers who applied for medical cards were refused on grounds they did not pay tax? You appear to know this. Or is just personal opinion?

deisedevil wrote:

...

Welcome to the thread. I recommend you read it all before commenting you are already incorrect on a few things.

This is because of the hard life they CHOOSE to live!!!

So you are saying deny them basic running water, etc because they choose to live this way? What about those who want housing but are unable to get it despite government plan put in place which was supposed to accomodate this?

Their parents put no importance on education and they move around throughout their young lives making it hard to get a proper education.

Again cite your sources on the first part and as for the second part mentioned earlier of the 27,000 travellers in Ireland only 1,200 (2,000 holiday season) move around. That is less then 1% of the traveller population.

That's absolute bull!! They can't be evicted from legal halting sites. Where did ya get that crap?

Again read through the thread. I have already posted sources regarding this.

gurramok · 30-12-2005 2:35pm

deisedevil wrote:

I'm so sick of the sympathy travellers get. They chose their lives, they bring any hardships they have on themselves and unlike other races the MAJORITY give the MINORITY a bad name!! I have had dealings with many travellers and have only ever come across one of them who i could get on with and is a respected member of the community.Why is he a respected member of the community? Because besides being part of a family known for trouble and criminality he got himself a job. He doesn't go around getting in fights and causing grief for people and he's generally a very nice person to deal with unlike the majority of travellers. Yes there's criminals and trouble makers in every community and evry group of people you might come across but there are far more on average in travellers, very very few have even a decent cell in their body!

Excellent post deisedevil, it explains alot of what happens in real life.
I posted on a previous thread on this subject in Politics, those that defend travellers are also likely to oppose a traveller accomodation in their back yard imho.*

The traveller community has a huge criminal problem within their own community and they need to address that issue internally before they moan about racism. That decent minority needs to find its voice and speak out about the huge problem of bad travellers.

*and yes i do live near a huge halting site and settled traveller estate and know what its like to encounter them daily.(Dunsink, Finglas)

lazylad · 30-12-2005 3:07pm

deisedevil wrote:

Some hard facts as a traveller.
- You are more likely to die younger then normal Irish population (avg 12 years)
This is because of the hard life they CHOOSE to live!!!

- child mortality rate (births) is over double the norm for Ireland.
They have so many and they don't look after them properly!

- You are more likely not be able to read or write.
Their parents put no importance on education and they move around throughout their young lives making it hard to get a proper education.

- You are less likely to get a job in Ireland as a traveller.
People are sick of giving them chances only to have their trust thrown in their faces. I have seen plenty of them get jobs and only ever seen one in my town who wasn't fired for robbing or causing trouble. They don't want jobs anyways!

- You are liable to be moved on (eviction) with no warning. This is in areas where they are legally allowed to park thier caravans.
That's absolute bull!! They can't be evicted from legal halting sites. Where did ya get that crap?

- You are more likely not to have basic amenities others have like running water/toilets.
They are given all those in halting sites but they turn around and destroy them! I have seen the halting site locally get destroyed so many times. My father works in the council and he worked on a halting site, they put in so much stuff and the place looked great, they were in there A WEEK!!! and they made bits of every toilet, pulled the roofs off the wash rooms all the tiles etc! they sprayed grafitti all over all the buldings and started fires all over the place and burnt everything they pulled out of the buldings. Also if i chose to head off in my caravan in the morning i can't complain if i no longer have running water and electricity, i chose to go living in areas where there is none so it's tough luck, what are the government supposed to do, put running water and free electricity in every lay by and area someone might illegally pull up a caravan.

- You are more likely to be faced with hostility from others on a day to day basis.
And you are more likely to be faced with hostility when trying to deal with travellers. I had to deal with them on a daily basis and was constantly being threatened and harrassed!

- You are less likely to get a medical card.
Why????

- Despite what people are claiming they do not get free houses and are more likely to be denied housing vs non-travellers.
Rubbish!! Most of them don't want houses and i have seen a few who did get them and destroyed them and moved on. Same as they do with the halting sites they are given.

- Your area is most likely to be infested with rats.
What area? The outside of your caravan where you throw all your rubbish and excrement? Damn right it will be if you can't keep your area clean. I don't throw all my ****e out my window and as a result i don't have a rat problem. Simple.

- You are liable to be banned for no reason from various establishments. (despite this being illegal)
NO REASON?? You obviously haven't seen what they get up to when they go into pubs and night clubs. Obviously there are always going to be fights etc. in pubs but i have seen them cause so much bloody trouble in the past that if i had a pub i wouldn't be serving them drink, i'd do anything i could to keep them out. And why is it that when there are knacker weddings in a town the pubs lock their doors?? Is it cause they are just racist and don't like travellers, NO It's cause they don't like having their bars smashed to bits and their customers abused, it's that simple, f-all to do with racism. Travellers now go around trying to do their best to not get served and catch it on a camera so they can sue whoever refused them, it's a disgrace.

- You are liable to have your stuff taken by the Garda even when you can legally prove it is yours.
More absoulte rubbish! The gardai will take it off them if they can't prove where they got it same as any other vendor or seller has to be able to prove where they got their merchandise or anyone suspected of theft will have to prove where they bought something. They don't take half enough off them as it is!

- They do have to pay taxes (halting sites are fixed abodes), Some may not but does not mean that what they are doing is legal.
They are parasites end of story. They don't pay their way and they take whatever they can even if it is illegal, they have NO regard for the law!

I'm so sick of the sympathy travellers get. They chose their lives, they bring any hardships they have on themselves and unlike other races the MAJORITY give the MINORITY a bad name!! I have had dealings with many travellers and have only ever come across one of them who i could get on with and is a respected member of the community.Why is he a respected member of the community? Because besides being part of a family known for trouble and criminality he got himself a job. He doesn't go around getting in fights and causing grief for people and he's generally a very nice person to deal with unlike the majority of travellers. Yes there's criminals and trouble makers in every community and evry group of people you might come across but there are far more on average in travellers, very very few have even a decent cell in their body!

In reply to this novel,
Why do you care so much as to write all that? Who cares!!!!

deisedevil · 30-12-2005 3:28pm

gurramok wrote:

Excellent post deisedevil, it explains alot of what happens in real life.
I posted on a previous thread on this subject in Politics, those that defend travellers are also likely to oppose a traveller accomodation in their back yard imho.*

The traveller community has a huge criminal problem within their own community and they need to address that issue internally before they moan about racism. That decent minority needs to find its voice and speak out about the huge problem of bad travellers.

*and yes i do live near a huge halting site and settled traveller estate and know what its like to encounter them daily.(Dunsink, Finglas)

Thanks Gurramok. I feel very sorry for the minority of travellers who find it difficult to go through life because of the problems of the majority. I treat people how i find them, if i met a traveller who i could get on with and abided by the law and had respect for others etc. then i would have no problem with that one individual and i do know a traveller like this who i speak to on a regular basis but the majority (almost all) of travellers i come across(and there's a lot) have no respect for anything or anyone around them. I could write a post that would fill 10 pages on the disgusting incidents i personally have come across in relation to travellers, all the thieving, mugging, beatings, destruction of property, theft of cars and general abuse they throw around. Of course the settled community has plenty of people that commit the same offences but it's the small minority that do it where as with travelling community it's the large majority that do it. Also it's so annoying to hear people who don't have to deal with them on a daily basis defending them, when they hear people giving out about travellers they jump to their defence, very easy to defend them and throw around a few statistics and sentences when your living amongst them and being on the receiving end of travellers and their 'ways' and so called 'culture'.

deisedevil · 30-12-2005 3:31pm

lazylad wrote:

In reply to this novel,
Why do you care so much as to write all that? Who cares!!!!

In reply to this stupid comment, i didn't write all that i responded to some of the comments made by another. Why did you bother reading it, why did you come onto this thread if you don't care, some people do care. Go to a thread that your interested in and post something worthwhile. If you don't care about anything then get lost!

Hobbes · 30-12-2005 3:32pm

gurramok wrote:

The traveller community has a huge criminal problem within their own community

Again, where do you get this statistic from? Or are you working this out based on the halting site near you or Ireland overall?

deisedevil wrote:

travelling community it's the large majority that do it.

I asked this same question of another poster earlier. Where do you get large majority from? Of the 27,000 how many are you claiming are criminals?

deisedevil · 30-12-2005 3:42pm

Hobbes wrote:

Again, where do you get this statistic from? Or are you working this out based on the halting site near you or Ireland overall?

I asked this same question of another poster earlier. Where do you get large majority from? Of the 27,000 how many are you claiming are criminals?

I'm speaking about my personal experiences with travellers and from what friends and others have told me. I have seen that much trouble and criminal acts committed by travellers and in my small town where there is a large traveller community of which i'd know a lot of them there are hardly any that i haven't seen or heard of who haven't been involved in trouble or criminality. Anywhere else i travel or almost all of who i speak to have the same opinion and have had the same experiences with the traveling community. It's not a coincidence. That's where i get the large majority from, it's impossible to put no's on how many aren't criminals, can you put a no. on how many settled people are criminals? No you can't and it's not a question that anyone can answer but you could still say that the minority of the settled community are involved in crime.

*Oul_Doll_Cork* · 30-12-2005 3:49pm

There is no point of being PC about this whole situation! Travellers are a completely different breed of people! They have no morals and have no social skills whatsoever! IMO they should section off one whole county in Ireland and dedicate it for the travellers! We can call it County Knacker!! Leave them do what they want!
Personally I don't care if they don't pay taxes and sell crappy furniture! ?It's when they set up home on your front garden and leave their horses run riot all over the place thats what really pisses me off!!
There was once a halting site built near my home! Brand new place with state of the art stuff there... they even had those gas and electric cable things for caravans to come in and hook up to! They had shower cubicals and toilet facilities! When the halting site opened a huge group of travellers moved in....
.... a week later the travellers moved on! There was nothing left of this halting site, they took everything that could be ripped out of the ground and they melted down everything that was made from steel... I think they made horse shoes or something from it!!!

deisedevil · 30-12-2005 4:03pm

*Oul_Doll_Cork* wrote:

There is no point of being PC about this whole situation! Travellers are a completely different breed of people! They have no morals and have no social skills whatsoever! IMO they should section off one whole county in Ireland and dedicate it for the travellers! We can call it County Knacker!! Leave them do what they want!
Personally I don't care if they don't pay taxes and sell crappy furniture! ?It's when they set up home on your front garden and leave their horses run riot all over the place thats what really pisses me off!!
There was once a halting site built near my home! Brand new place with state of the art stuff there... they even had those gas and electric cable things for caravans to come in and hook up to! They had shower cubicals and toilet facilities! When the halting site opened a huge group of travellers moved in....
.... a week later the travellers moved on! There was nothing left of this halting site, they took everything that could be ripped out of the ground and they melted down everything that was made from steel... I think they made horse shoes or something from it!!!

Ya they have a feckin habit of doing that, happened in halting site near me and happens in halting sites all over and then they complain that they are given no decent facilities. WELL STOP WRECKING THEM THEN!

billy the squid · 30-12-2005 4:15pm

TheBazman wrote:

I live in County Limerick - every year hundreds of travellers come back to Rathkeale which appears to be their homeland. They always come back with flash cars. In years gone by it would be top of the range Mercs and Beemers. However recently they have downscaled a bit - this year it was top of the range VW passats and Kia jeeps. Most of their money appears to be made from dodgy businesses like putting down tarmacadam in Germany and Spain, although realistically something else has to be going on - illegal. However given the downscaling in cars in recent years, the money from their illegal activities must be drying up

How is working on building roads in Germany dodgy? I mean, free movement within the EU and all. and the money in construction can be quite good., ask any irish person who has been in building in the UK or who was involved in building the Channel Tunnel.

Hobbes · 30-12-2005 4:26pm

deisedevil wrote:

I'm speaking about my personal experiences with travellers
...That's where i get the large majority from, it's impossible to put no's on how many aren't criminals

Yet you have appeared to by calling the majority criminals when I doubt very much all 27,000 of them live near you. By large majority your saying that what, 40% (10,000) aren't criminals? 30%? (8,000). What exactly is a large majority?

can you put a no. on how many settled people are criminals?

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/2003/qnhs_crimeandvictimisation1998and2003.pdf

Although it doesn't factor in Travellers vs Settled people. But what percentage of 4 million is 27,000? Thats from CSO btw, only one offhand but they might have more details.

billy the squid · 30-12-2005 4:33pm

*Oul_Doll_Cork* wrote:

There is no point of being PC about this whole situation! Travellers are a completely different breed of people! They have no morals and have no social skills whatsoever! IMO they should section off one whole county in Ireland and dedicate it for the travellers! We can call it County Knacker!! Leave them do what they want!

the Germans tried that with the Jews, I'm not sure how successful it was though.

Personally I don't care if they don't pay taxes and sell crappy furniture! ?It's when they set up home on your front garden and leave their horses run riot all over the place thats what really pisses me off!!

You should take a look at some council estates then, most horses there belong to young fellas living in the estates, if not all of them, not to mention manky pigeon sheds built without council planning permission drawing rats into an estate.

There was once a halting site built near my home! ....<insert obligitory anecdote here>

cannot have an anti traveller post without a good ol' anecdote.

reminds me of another website where you have to have an anti blck/chinese/eastern european anecdote in order to start a thread bashing them.

johnplayerblue · 30-12-2005 4:35pm

Hey!
In the gates and up the chimney with each and every one of these parasites and a few liberals just to make sure theres no acucations of racism.

the_menace · 30-12-2005 4:48pm

billy the squid wrote:

the Germans tried that with the Jews, I'm not sure how successful it was though.

The Jews didn't deserve it though.

*Oul_Doll_Cork* · 30-12-2005 5:02pm

billy the squid wrote:

the Germans tried that with the Jews, I'm not sure how successful it was though.

You should take a look at some council estates then, most horses there belong to young fellas living in the estates, if not all of them, not to mention manky pigeon sheds built without council planning permission drawing rats into an estate.

cannot have an anti traveller post without a good ol' anecdote.

reminds me of another website where you have to have an anti blck/chinese/eastern european anecdote in order to start a thread bashing them.

Errrr, I was joking about the part where we should put all travellers into one county and leave them there!!!! I was hardly serious fecks sake! Some people take things so seriously!!!

Maybe we should start a new thread... a vote for which county we should put them in???

MikeC101 · 30-12-2005 5:06pm

Limerick!

psicic · 30-12-2005 5:06pm

Hobbes wrote:

You know what they say about assumptions. You are telling me every single traveller child that didn't make it to secondary school is only because of thier parents?

Nothing to do with not being able to get placement in secondary schools? Any other reasons?

Umm, Hobbes, schools with traveller children enrolled get extra resources to accomodate those children - most principals won't kick up about traveller children coming to their school. If they do, they can avail of the same facilities available to everyone else.

In every single cachement area, at least one secondary school is designated as a 'School Completion Programme' School - I went to one (ironically out of choice!!). This means that this school HAS to take a child who has been turned away from other schools - be it because they're a son/daughter of a feuding Limerick crime gang, because they damaged school property elsewhere, traveller or whatever.

An SCP School will rarely try to refuse to take a child, and if they do, the likelyhood is that the Dept of Education will invoke s.29 proceedings at request of the traveller family/their representatives.

As an aside, in 2002 there were over 5,000 traveller children enrolled in Primary School in Ireland. Same year, there were 1,500 traveller children enrolled in Secondary School. (Figures on Dept of Education website). That would seem to indicate a 30% transition to secondary school. In fact, assuming a year-on-year increase in Traveller population under 18, that percentage gets even more healthy.

It's still too low, but the picture you paint seems to take a fact - discrimination against travellers - and try and maximise it in all aspects. It also seems to me that you're minimizing and trying to shift the blame for the negative social effects that people associate with travellers.

Only one thing gives travellers a bad name, and that's travellers.

Only one thing can give travellers a good name, and that's travellers.

Hobbes · 30-12-2005 5:42pm

*Oul_Doll_Cork* wrote:

Maybe we should start a new thread... a vote for which county we should put them in???

Yea Stormfront have forums you can use.

Hobbes · 30-12-2005 5:46pm

psicic wrote:

Umm, Hobbes, schools with traveller children enrolled get extra resources to accomodate those children - most principals won't kick up about traveller children coming to their school. If they do, they can avail of the same facilities available to everyone else.

Actually all they get is a teacher who helps the family in getting placement. (Which is not the same as SCP from what I can tell)

As for headmasters they don't kick up a fuss as they get funding for every traveller child in the school.

Reference: http://oasis.gov.ie/education/primary_and_post_primary_education/special_educational_arrangements_for_travellers.html?search=travellers

In fact, assuming a year-on-year increase in Traveller population under 18, that percentage gets even more healthy.

I would certainly hope so.

It's still too low, but the picture you paint seems to take a fact - discrimination against travellers

Third level education number of travellers was listed as 16. Although the DOE might have better figures from what I dug out before.

you're minimizing and trying to shift the blame for the negative social effects that people associate with travellers.

No, I am putting another point forward vs everyone who seems so intent on only putting negative points forward as reasoning that it is all thier fault.

deisedevil · 30-12-2005 5:48pm

Hobbes wrote:

Yet you have appeared to by calling the majority criminals when I doubt very much all 27,000 of them live near you. By large majority your saying that what, 40% (10,000) aren't criminals? 30%? (8,000). What exactly is a large majority?

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/2003/qnhs_crimeandvictimisation1998and2003.pdf

Although it doesn't factor in Travellers vs Settled people. But what percentage of 4 million is 27,000? Thats from CSO btw, only one offhand but they might have more details.

In all fairness like i have said i am giving my opinion! My opinion from what i have witnessed in my own area and any other i have been in and from almost all i have spoken to is that the majority of travellers are a problem and not just this minority that some people go on about. and that's the opinion of most people! How in gods name could i come up with an exact figure or a between this and that, shur it's impossible to keep track of them anyways!
Like psicic said "Only one thing gives travellers a bad name, and that's travellers. Only one thing can give travellers a good name, and that's travellers." Very true. I'm sick of people trying to put the blame with everyone else bar the travellers. Travellers cause their own problems and no matter how much is done to help them it's thrown back in our faces and why is this? because they know they can get away with it and come out looking for sympathy afterwards and use the everyone hates us card and some idiots will go backing them up.

deisedevil · 30-12-2005 5:53pm

Hobbes wrote:

No, I am putting another point forward vs everyone who seems so intent on only putting negative points forward as reasoning that it is all thier fault.

Does that not tell you something then? So many arguements against very few for. Are you just putting another point of view forward just because there is so few positive points? That's a bit pointless, maybe you should question your reasons for defending them.

Hobbes · 30-12-2005 5:55pm

deisedevil wrote:

In all fairness like i have said i am giving my opinion!

Ok I'll give you that. It is your opinion that the majority are criminals, you just have no facts to back it up though. Once we are clear on that.

My opinion from what i have witnessed in my own area and any other i have been in and from almost all i have spoken to is that the majority of travellers are a problem

Again with the vast majority. How much of a vast majority are troublemakers? Of course it being your opinion you are only talking about those local to you, don't suppose you know what the figure is?

Hobbes · 30-12-2005 5:57pm

deisedevil wrote:

Does that not tell you something then? So many arguements against very few for. Are you just putting another point of view forward just because there is so few positive points? That's a bit pointless, maybe you should question your reasons for defending them.

Well prehaps if the anti camp do give me a bit more then ancedote and hearsay then I might start taking the comments seriously.

Freelancer · 30-12-2005 6:25pm

ferdi wrote:

we will have to agree to disagree then i guess. i am more likely to believe someone giving a personal experience than a website.

"My mate down the pub reckons....."

Yeah I can see how the unsupported, unprovable, accusations and claims, provide a far more compelling body of evidence that a well established website dealing with such abstract concepts as "facts" and "statistics".

Honestly Hobbes deserves the 2005 Don Quixote tilting at the windmills of ignorance award.

The anti argument can be summed up as "most are scumbags, you can spot em, I've heard stories that all turn down houses/all are on the dole and working two jobs/are shiftless bastards pumping out children. Thoough I cannot support or provide any evidence to support my sweeping claim about a social group so that means, I am not racists/anyone who disagrees with my making a sweeping unsupported accusation aganist them all is just a part of the "PC brigade"

deisedevil wrote:

Does that not tell you something then? So many arguements against very few for. Are you just putting another point of view forward just because there is so few positive points? That's a bit pointless, maybe you should question your reasons for defending them.

Brilliant! No smoke without fire eh?

At the risk of treading into Godwin's terrirotory if you replace traveler with Jew, and Ireland 2005 and Ireland 1905, you'd have heard plenty of songs and people muttering darkly about the Jewish Problem. In 1904 there was a minor pogrom to drive the Jewish community out of Limerick, with tales of their corrupt ways and money lending, and wealth they didn't earn or deserve.

Woa Deja vu eh?

nlgbbbblth · 30-12-2005 6:54pm

I imagine the reason travellers have so many children is because the majority of them are staunch Catholics who do not believe in birth control. Or sex before marriage.

And are possibly not too positive towards the whole gay thing I mentioned on page 8.

deisedevil · 30-12-2005 7:13pm

Hobbes: "Ok I'll give you that. It is your opinion that the majority are criminals, you just have no facts to back it up though. Once we are clear on that."

But you have no facts to disagree with that claim either, silly arguement, boards.ie is about poeple giving their opinions, i guarentee you if you go out on the street and ask people what they think about you'll see most agree with the my view on it.

Hobbes:"Of course it being your opinion you are only talking about those local to you, don't suppose you know what the figure is?"

I am not just talking about those local to me, i have heard and seen plenty from all over the country to know it's not just in my own area. Ask people from any county in Ireland and you'll get a resounding YES that the majority of Travellers are breaking the law in many different ways!

Hobbes: "Again with the vast majority. How much of a vast majority are troublemakers?"

This is too bloody confusing. I said the vast majority are troublemakers and you then ask how much of the vast majority are troublemakers, ammmmmmm, the vast majority!:rolleyes:

Not much point continuing this silly arguement anyways, i know what i have seen and heard and i have had plenty of experiences with travellers to know that most of them (the vast feckin majority) are not worth bothering with and to avoid them as much as possible.
You have a different view of them, that's fair enough, i just hope you don't ever get taken advantage of by them, you sound a bit naive in relation to the problems travellers cause.

BigEejit · 30-12-2005 7:14pm

psicic wrote:

Only one thing gives travellers a bad name, and that's travellers.

Only one thing can give travellers a good name, and that's travellers.

Nail. Head.

Travellers are their own worst enemies, they make shíte of some places and cause fear and loathing in the settled communities .... They appear to not care either which galls law abiding people who have to pay for their amenities and pay for the regular cleanup that is required when they move on/forced to move on.

I know I should make a distinction between knacker and Traveller but to tell the truth I believe that the law abiding, hard working tinker of old is gone and replaced with something altogether different.

Davei141 · 30-12-2005 8:11pm

Hobbes, how many travellers on average do you interact with daily? Do you live near a halting site?

Answer me those questions, and if you already have, then link them please.

travellers in flash cars??

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