FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2020 1:05pm

smurgen wrote: »

Whoever runs FG twitter account had to have been drinking yesterday.

https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1326230263978979332?s=19

Another shoot yourself in the foot tweet. Immediately pointed out that Leo was cynically using a whistleblower to position himself in a leadership challenge to Enda Kenny, not to mention reminders of FG's actions in trying to undermine whistleblowers.

'Maybe he'll leak where the laptops and phones are'.

Nevin Parsnipp · 11-11-2020 1:14pm

smurgen wrote: »

What point? You hate poor people and they should be less well off to make you happier?

No hate at all my friend..what makes me angry though is to see young folk having to scrimp and save to make their own way in the world and provide for themselves without recourse to the State.

To see young folk trying to better themselves by education and hard work and having to pay for everything...while another cohort are happy to leech from the State contribute nothing and expect to get everything for free.

Who is the voice of the hard working young people with mortgages and medical bills to pay ...I see no political party championing their cause ?

Is it fair that these young people are further burdened to pay for the dissolute lifestyles of those who make no effort to better themselves ?

I don't think so.....and that DOES make me angry. !

Bishop of hope · 11-11-2020 1:20pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another shoot yourself in the foot tweet. Immediately pointed out that Leo was cynically using a whistleblower to position himself in a leadership challenge to Enda Kenny, not to mention reminders of FG's actions in trying to undermine whistleblowers.

'Maybe he'll leak where the laptops and phones are'.

They're everywhere it seems.
I hadn't time to watch the debate, but reading the Varadkar thread back apparently it was like a running commentary.
Not hard to leak what is public knowledge already as has been the case in point too.
Used and abused our SF this last week.
And fell for it hook line and sinker.

blanch152 · 11-11-2020 2:31pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

They're everywhere it seems.
I hadn't time to watch the debate, but reading the Varadkar thread back apparently it was like a running commentary.
Not hard to leak what is public knowledge already as has been the case in point too.
Used and abused our SF this last week.
And fell for it hook line and sinker.

It was all a play by Cosgrave to get at O'Toole. Nothing more.

I bet he was surprised it worked so well, Bowes and Smith were the obvious patsies in play, but hooking Sinn Fein into it as well made it work like a dream.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2020 2:40pm

blanch152 wrote: »

It was all a play by Cosgrave to get at O'Toole. Nothing more.

I bet he was surprised it worked so well, Bowes and Smith were the obvious patsies in play, but hooking Sinn Fein into it as well made it work like a dream.

So the Tanaiste as Taoiseach was lying when he said he shared a confidential document with a vested interest?

That's a new one on me.

RandomViewer · 11-11-2020 3:26pm

smurgen wrote: »

Whoever runs FG twitter account had to have been drinking yesterday.

https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1326230263978979332?s=19

Paul Williams un-friending FG?

blanch152 · 11-11-2020 3:41pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So the Tanaiste as Taoiseach was lying when he said he shared a confidential document with a vested interest?

That's a new one on me.

I don't recall him saying he shared a confidential document with a vested interest.

The document wasn't confidential in the way you mean and the interest wasn't vested. You are spinning what happened again.

Leo wasn't the target, O'Toole was. Sinn Fein, Bowes and the Village were used.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2020 4:01pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't recall him saying he shared a confidential document with a vested interest.

The document wasn't confidential in the way you mean and the interest wasn't vested. You are spinning what happened again.

Leo wasn't the target, O'Toole was. Sinn Fein, Bowes and the Village were used.

So all your protestations that a Taoiseach can take onto him/herself the right to share confidential documents was just incidental waffle?

Give it up blanch. The twisting gets tiresome.

smurgen · 11-11-2020 4:04pm

Nevin Parsnipp wrote: »

No hate at all my friend..what makes me angry though is to see young folk having to scrimp and save to make their own way in the world and provide for themselves without recourse to the State.

To see young folk trying to better themselves by education and hard work and having to pay for everything...while another cohort are happy to leech from the State contribute nothing and expect to get everything for free.

Who is the voice of the hard working young people with mortgages and medical bills to pay ...I see no political party championing their cause ?

Is it fair that these young people are further burdened to pay for the dissolute lifestyles of those who make no effort to better themselves ?

I don't think so.....and that DOES make me angry. !

I was one of those young people. Been paying USC and a lot of tax since I graduated. Successive FG and FF Government has wasted our taxes and provided a below par return. The sense of superiority that exists from these parties is unfounded and they can no longer rest on their laurels. They are as much a leech class as those on social welfare you hate. Corrupt politicians cheat us all.

Brendan Bendar · 11-11-2020 4:19pm

smurgen wrote: »

I was one of those young people. Been paying USC and a lot of tax since I graduated. Successive FG and FF Government has wasted our taxes and provided a below par return. The sense of superiority that exists from these parties is unfounded and they can no longer rest on their laurels. They are as much a leech class as those on social welfare you hate. Corrupt politicians cheat us all.

I didn’t get from the lads post that he “hated people on social welfare”

I took that like most decent folk he didn’t approve of folk ‘gaming ‘ the system.

Do you approve of folk gaming the system?

Floppybits · 11-11-2020 4:28pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I didn’t get from the lads post that he “hated people on social welfare”

I took that like most decent folk he didn’t approve of folk ‘gaming ‘ the system.

Do you approve of folk gaming the system?

Would you include politicians in that gaming of the system as well?

James Brown · 11-11-2020 4:57pm

Solutionking wrote: »

I think a few people here don't actually understand what the government do. A lot of comments about Debenhams and all incorrect. I am talking about the government now, not a TD. A few people on here seem to think a single TD is the government.

Debenhams staff have paid money for year to Mandate, a union if you could call it that. As soon as any issue what do Mandate do? well they run to the government. So why don't Mandate just tell the staff to pay direct to the government in extra tax instead of wasting it by giving it to them?

The workers should be after Mandate, the best Mandate could come up with was "Mandate General Secretary John Douglas reminds the minister that there will be a significant cost to the State in redundancy and welfare payments if the staff are made redundant". Now if I was paying to a union and I read that I would cancel all payments and look for a refund. How useless are they?

KPMG are liquidators and why is Mandate not working with them? If people are mad at anyone here it should be Mandate.

My suggestion, if anyone is paying into these "unions" tell them to f**k right off and just point them to the carry on of Mandate for the reason why

I'm not sure were you read that.
Agreed Varadkar nor anyone else in government should not be chiming in on the matter, unless it is to advocate for the workers. Hand wringing about how poorly the workers were treated followed by defending Debenhams is not acceptable behaviour.
On that note if government had of acted on the recommendations after the Cleary's scandal we might not be were we are.

James Brown · 11-11-2020 5:00pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Varadkar made a comment about Debenhams, that is true. However, you say he was "associated" with Debenhams, what exactly does that mean? Are your trying the old "guilty by association" trick? That is a further comment by yourself that it is untrue.

You then say that Varadkar made an "incorrect statement as explained". You are entitled to claim that Varadkar made an incorrect statement, that is your unsubtantiated opinion. However, you cannot say that it is as explained, as you have presented zero evidence that Debenhams have money. In fact, as the Courts have found, the Mandate position is without merit. The actual facts are that Mandate are looking for a taxpayer bailout, not claiming that Debenhams have money, so you are advancing another lie.

He lied when he stuck his oar in. Fact is Debenhams have assets and turnover as linked in my comment.

Another lie? Varadkar lied, proof in my previous link. Where the workers might get their money now does not change that. The second claim from you of my lying is merely more made up claims by yourself.

Floppybits · 11-11-2020 5:02pm

Bowie wrote: »

I'm not sure were you read that.
Agreed Varadkar nor anyone else in government should not be chiming in on the matter, unless it is to advocate for the workers. Hand wringing about how poorly the workers were treated followed by defending Debenhams is not acceptable behaviour.
On that note if government had of acted on the recommendations after the Cleary's scandal we might not be were we are.

This is the thing that the government should be putting the necessary legislation in place to protect workers but they don't. Yes they feign disgust and shock when workers like those in Cleary's and in Debenhams have been treated badly but still they wont put the protections in place. It is the same of zero hour contracts, these should be made illegal but again the government are not tackling that issue. Protecting workers means protecting the tax income in the state and that is what the government need to do.

James Brown · 11-11-2020 5:04pm

Nevin Parsnipp wrote: »

Indeed it is Dude a nice house near the Ma and a big 46 inch sputterin in the corner.

Income related rent which of course you don't bother to pay and all sorts of woke do gooders and tree huggers to prevent you getting evicted.

Bro Kevin for the Xmas goodies (he don't judge) and a tired GP gettin you the dissabilithy just to get rid of you.

Attend a few peaceful demos if you get bored ..the transphort is free.... and free legals if you tangle with the polis.

Not a bad life ...innit ?

Are you from Dickensian London? Your comment doesn't seem to be very grounded in reality.

11-11-2020 5:06pm

Bowie wrote: »

He lied when he stuck his oar in. Fact is Debenhams have assets and turnover as linked in my comment.

Another lie? Varadkar lied, proof in my previous link. Where the workers might get their money now does not change that. The second claim from you of my lying is merely more made up claims by yourself.

Then, why did they enter liquidation? The workers rejected a redundancy deal in 2016, I think. That deal was no longer on the table, so no point looking for it.

James Brown · 11-11-2020 5:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Then, why did they enter liquidation? The workers rejected a redundancy deal in 2016, I think. That deal was no longer on the table, so no point looking for it.

To dodge paying creditors and staff? Can't say. I gave a link regarding their turn over and assets.

I know some people have a dislike for the lower income working taxpayer, but this was about showing the connection between Debenhams and government involvement.

Nevin Parsnipp · 11-11-2020 5:30pm

Bowie wrote: »

Are you from Dickensian London? Your comment doesn't seem to be very grounded in reality.

Does it not ? You don't get out very much do you ?

Cluedo Monopoly · 11-11-2020 5:33pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another shoot yourself in the foot tweet. Immediately pointed out that Leo was cynically using a whistleblower to position himself in a leadership challenge to Enda Kenny, not to mention reminders of FG's actions in trying to undermine whistleblowers.

'Maybe he'll leak where the laptops and phones are'.

I had forgotten about the missing phones. I am not sure FG covered themselves in glory during the McCabe saga. Apart from Leo. They were eventually forced to act but McCabe had been treating appallingly by the the corrupt Gardai and the state.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-s%C3%ADoch%C3%A1na-refuses-to-disclose-figures-on-officers-lost-phones-1.3487130

Garda Síochána refuses to disclose figures on officers’ lost phones
12 of the 15 mobile phones being sought by Charleton tribunal cannot be recovered

Higgins5473 · 11-11-2020 6:56pm

Whoever runs that official FG Twitter handle is like a petulant child/are like petulant children. It's an utter embarrassment, like some Paddy Power ad campaign muck with attempts at wit and put downs which are totally devoid of any intelligence or worthwhile promotion for the political party itself. The idea that the imbeciles running it are most likely earning a packet from it under the guise of being some PR experts or some such nonsense is baffling. It's an utter sh*t show.

RandomViewer · 11-11-2020 6:58pm

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Whoever runs that official FG Twitter handle is like a petulant child/are like petulant children. It's an utter embarrassment, like some Paddy Power ad campaign muck with attempts at wit and put downs which are totally devoid of any intelligence or worthwhile promotion for the political party itself. The idea that the imbeciles running it are most likely earning a packet from it under the guise of being some PR experts or some such nonsense is baffling. It's an utter sh*t show.

https://www.google.com/search?q=terry+prone&client=tablet-android-samsung&prmd=ismvn&sxsrf=ALeKk00uMTe-z94QosK6DRrFkNzC84fiZw:1605117463544&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiszvLBiPvsAhWNRBUIHeUwByIQ_AUoAXoECAMQAQ&biw=800&bih=1280#imgrc=FsWCF3POCb_voM

blanch152 · 11-11-2020 7:45pm

Bowie wrote: »

He lied when he stuck his oar in. Fact is Debenhams have assets and turnover as linked in my comment.

Another lie? Varadkar lied, proof in my previous link. Where the workers might get their money now does not change that. The second claim from you of my lying is merely more made up claims by yourself.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/explainer-why-are-former-debenhams-workers-picketing-1020881.html

It is quite tiring having to explain the same thing over and over to you. Debenhams do not have assets and turnover. That is why the workers are looking for taxpayers money.

"The workers are also calling on the Government to waive some €20 million owed to Revenue and local authorities through the liquidation process, so it can be used to boost workers’ redundancy packages."

Sure if Debenhams illegally renege on creditors and taxes, there might be money for workers, but the law says the money is owed to the taxpayer first. So there is no money for workers, so Varadkar was correct, and you are wrong.

smurgen · 11-11-2020 9:38pm

Any sign of FG getting that 10 million back of their mate Larry Goodman in rent?

James Brown · 11-11-2020 9:44pm

Nevin Parsnipp wrote: »

Does it not ? You don't get out very much do you ?

What do you see when you are out that gives you a window into the private lives of people? Your comment was cliché and anecdotal, which is fine up until people start thinking it's factual. Likely is with some small element but as with all such discussions nobody can every post verified numbers on them that don't want to work. Blanch might've chimed in around now with that report on the numbers of unemployed per household which as we know doesn't answer the query but helps to add to the fudge.

James Brown · 11-11-2020 9:47pm

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/explainer-why-are-former-debenhams-workers-picketing-1020881.html

It is quite tiring having to explain the same thing over and over to you. Debenhams do not have assets and turnover. That is why the workers are looking for taxpayers money.

"The workers are also calling on the Government to waive some €20 million owed to Revenue and local authorities through the liquidation process, so it can be used to boost workers’ redundancy packages."

Sure if Debenhams illegally renege on creditors and taxes, there might be money for workers, but the law says the money is owed to the taxpayer first. So there is no money for workers, so Varadkar was correct, and you are wrong.

Remember the query was what government had to do with Debenhams. Leo sticking his oar in to lie was the reply.
And yes, tiresome:

“And their expected turnover is €2bn this year.

"We know that the stock in the Patrick Street store alone is valued at €4.9m. Stock in all 11 Debenhams Irish stores is conservatively valued at €25m.

“But it would cost €10m to pay us all the agreed two weeks' redundancy package." Link

blanch152 · 12-11-2020 12:57am

Bowie wrote: »

Remember the query was what government had to do with Debenhams. Leo sticking his oar in to lie was the reply.
And yes, tiresome:

Again Leo expressing an opinion on something that has nothing to do with government doesn’t prove your point that the govern,ent had anything to do with Debenhams. If Leo expresses a view on the best looking guy in Dancing with the Stars, does that mean the government have something to do with the winner? Because according to your logic, it does.

As has been pointed out time and again, Debenhams do not have the money to pay the workers, that is why the unions want to rob taxpayers like me. Leo didn’t lie, no matter how many time’s you say it.

smurgen · 12-11-2020 8:04am

blanch152 wrote: »

Again Leo expressing an opinion on something that has nothing to do with government doesn’t prove your point that the govern,ent had anything to do with Debenhams. If Leo expresses a view on the best looking guy in Dancing with the Stars, does that mean the government have something to do with the winner? Because according to your logic, it does.

As has been pointed out time and again, Debenhams do not have the money to pay the workers, that is why the unions want to rob taxpayers like me. Leo didn’t lie, no matter how many time’s you say it.

I’d be asking what payments were made back to the parent company in the last five years and what the Irish subsidiary financial statements looked like. If it was continually being ran at a loss you’d have to challenge the going concern basis in the audit. You could hardly blame workers that have been there for years being annoyed. They again you probably could.

Brendan Bendar · 12-11-2020 8:12am

smurgen wrote: »

I’d be asking what payments were made back to the parent company in the last five years and what the Irish subsidiary financial statements looked like. If it was continually being ran at a loss you’d have to challenge the going concern basis in the audit. You could hardly blame workers that have been there for years being annoyed. They again you probably could.

Let the union earn their money.

smurgen · 12-11-2020 9:12am

Not a normal government.

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1326642237032312832?s=19

Bishop of hope · 12-11-2020 9:21am

smurgen wrote: »

Not a normal government.

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1326642237032312832?s=19

Is there anything illegal in that?

FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

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