FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

blanch152 · 10-11-2020 6:16pm

Bowie wrote: »

The comment stated government had nothing to do with Debenhams and asked what the connection was. I explained the connection between Varadkar and Debenhams. LV chimed in off his own back to be critical of the workers.
Your take on the situation does not dispute my comment or the context in responding to the other poster's query.
There was money there. If LV took it upon himself to chime in, with the lie Debenhams had no assets/money, he should have done so on behalf of the workers while apologising for not tackling the advice given after the Clery's scandal.

Eh, actually, my link supports the view that there wasn't money there. The Debenhams workers were seeking to take the money due to the Irish taxpayer.

So how could Leo have lied?

"The workers are also calling on the Government to waive some €20 million owed to Revenue and local authorities through the liquidation process, so it can be used to boost workers’ redundancy packages."

James Brown · 10-11-2020 6:23pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Eh, actually, my link supports the view that there wasn't money there. The Debenhams workers were seeking to take the money due to the Irish taxpayer.

So how could Leo have lied?

"The workers are also calling on the Government to waive some €20 million owed to Revenue and local authorities through the liquidation process, so it can be used to boost workers’ redundancy packages."

“And their expected turnover is €2bn this year.

"We know that the stock in the Patrick Street store alone is valued at €4.9m. Stock in all 11 Debenhams Irish stores is conservatively valued at €25m.

“But it would cost €10m to pay us all the agreed two weeks' redundancy package." Link

Again, context. The poster stated government had nothing to do with Debenhams and wanted to know what the connection was.

LV took it upon himself to chime in, with the lie Debenhams had no assets/money, he should have done so on behalf of the workers while apologising for not tackling the advice given after the Clery's scandal.

Now you having a gripe against the workers does not dispute my response to said poster.

blanch152 · 10-11-2020 6:32pm

Bowie wrote: »

Again, context. The poster stated government had nothing to do with Debenhams and wanted to know what the connection was.

Now you having a gripe against the workers does not dispute my response to said poster.

I see now.

However, a government Minister expressing a view on an issue does not mean that the Government has anything to do with it. He is entitled to have a view, you are entitled to disagree with his view, but that does not mean he lied.

10-11-2020 6:50pm

Bowie wrote: »

Again, context. The poster stated government had nothing to do with Debenhams and wanted to know what the connection was.

Now you having a gripe against the workers does not dispute my response to said poster.

The agreed two weeks plus two, was from an earlier redundancy offer and was no longer on the table.

James Brown · 10-11-2020 7:30pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I see now.

However, a government Minister expressing a view on an issue does not mean that the Government has anything to do with it. He is entitled to have a view, you are entitled to disagree with his view, but that does not mean he lied.

Well allow me to elaborate further. Varadkar was associated with Debenhams in a comment and a poster said Debenhams had nothing to do with government and asked what the connection was. Varadkar is currently in government and made an incorrect statement as explained. As with much of what Varakar does, he was speaking for himself with no regard for the government view, however he wasn't being interviewed as private citizen Varadkar either.

Cluedo Monopoly · 10-11-2020 9:49pm

What have you got for us next FFG?

Floppybits · 10-11-2020 9:54pm

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

What have you got for us next FFG?

Well there is the Woulfe thing now and there is something lurking in the background on Heather Humphries interfering in a court case.

Plus now that FFG have basically signed off on it being ok to leak confidential documents god knows what someone will leak, the thing is will the media run with it.

RandomViewer · 10-11-2020 9:54pm

joeguevara wrote: »

It says its the fault of the Office of Public Works.

Has the relevant public servant been sacked ,if not why not?

RandomViewer · 10-11-2020 9:57pm

Floppybits wrote: »

Well there is the Woulfe thing now and there is something lurking in the background on Heather Humphries interfering in a court case.

Plus now that FFG have basically signed off on it being ok to leak confidential documents god knows what someone will leak, the thing is will the media run with it.

I would be of the opinion that data protection legislation means nothing and that all information should be dumped online for all to see,

Muahahaha · 10-11-2020 10:06pm

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

What have you got for us next FFG?

lol at this stage if FFG get through a full week without having to explain the latest scandal it is considered a good week by them. Ive never seen a government so consistently on the racks, they have been just lurching from one scandal to the next since they took office.

Cluedo Monopoly · 10-11-2020 10:17pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Ive never seen a government so consistently on the racks, they have been just lurching from one scandal to the next since they took office.

No government have come even remotely close. It is helping to pass the time during lockdown. Even golfgate is back in the news!

Solutionking · 11-11-2020 9:08am

I think a few people here don't actually understand what the government do. A lot of comments about Debenhams and all incorrect. I am talking about the government now, not a TD. A few people on here seem to think a single TD is the government.

Debenhams staff have paid money for year to Mandate, a union if you could call it that. As soon as any issue what do Mandate do? well they run to the government. So why don't Mandate just tell the staff to pay direct to the government in extra tax instead of wasting it by giving it to them?

The workers should be after Mandate, the best Mandate could come up with was "Mandate General Secretary John Douglas reminds the minister that there will be a significant cost to the State in redundancy and welfare payments if the staff are made redundant". Now if I was paying to a union and I read that I would cancel all payments and look for a refund. How useless are they?

KPMG are liquidators and why is Mandate not working with them? If people are mad at anyone here it should be Mandate.

My suggestion, if anyone is paying into these "unions" tell them to f**k right off and just point them to the carry on of Mandate for the reason why

Brendan Bendar · 11-11-2020 9:23am

Solutionking wrote: »

I think a few people here don't actually understand what the government do. A lot of comments about Debenhams and all incorrect. I am talking about the government now, not a TD. A few people on here seem to think a single TD is the government.

Debenhams staff have paid money for year to Mandate, a union if you could call it that. As soon as any issue what do Mandate do? well they run to the government. So why don't Mandate just tell the staff to pay direct to the government in extra tax instead of wasting it by giving it to them?

The workers should be after Mandate, the best Mandate could come up with was "Mandate General Secretary John Douglas reminds the minister that there will be a significant cost to the State in redundancy and welfare payments if the staff are made redundant". Now if I was paying to a union and I read that I would cancel all payments and look for a refund. How useless are they?

KPMG are liquidators and why is Mandate not working with them? If people are mad at anyone here it should be Mandate.

My suggestion, if anyone is paying into these "unions" tell them to f**k right off and just point them to the carry on of Mandate for the reason why

Good post King, briefly what’s happening here is that folk, and this is important, immediately a dispute springs up, the Alphabets, the Shinners, the ‘Sit back and draw the wedges’ brigade start appearing on pickets and using the dispute:

A..to get publicity for themselves...nothing else

B.. to try and involve the Govt. and mislead those in dispute.

We have seen them all on the picket lines especially in Cork N C.

Sometimes, unfortunately,reality must be faced.

The Govt. cant fix everything.

Jinglejangle69 · 11-11-2020 9:46am

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Good post King, briefly what’s happening here is that folk, and this is important, immediately a dispute springs up, the Alphabets, the Shinners, the ‘Sit back and draw the wedges’ brigade start appearing on pickets and using the dispute:

A..to get publicity for themselves...nothing else

B.. to try and involve the Govt. and mislead those in dispute.

We have seen them all on the picket lines especially in Cork N C.

Sometimes, unfortunately,reality must be faced.

The Govt. cant fix everything.

Ah come on now Bren.

We all know the government has to hold people's hand from cradle to grave with money, a gaff, a lovely pension and all the trimmings life entitles you too.

Sure isn't that what governments are for?

Well in Ireland it seems so....

Nevin Parsnipp · 11-11-2020 9:59am

A lot of the perceived Govt. failings can be traced back to a Public Service unused to working at commercial speed.

Think of those sleepy beuers in the Dept of Educ whose tranquil existence was rudely disturbed by the pandemic...very hard to get up to speed when you have been ambling along for years !

The need to act fast and decisively in the light of Covid 19 left a lot of our public service flat footed and floundering in fairness with some notable exceptions like Revenue.

blanch152 · 11-11-2020 10:09am

Bowie wrote: »

Well allow me to elaborate further. Varadkar was associated with Debenhams in a comment and a poster said Debenhams had nothing to do with government and asked what the connection was. Varadkar is currently in government and made an incorrect statement as explained. As with much of what Varakar does, he was speaking for himself with no regard for the government view, however he wasn't being interviewed as private citizen Varadkar either.

Varadkar made a comment about Debenhams, that is true. However, you say he was "associated" with Debenhams, what exactly does that mean? Are your trying the old "guilty by association" trick? That is a further comment by yourself that it is untrue.

You then say that Varadkar made an "incorrect statement as explained". You are entitled to claim that Varadkar made an incorrect statement, that is your unsubtantiated opinion. However, you cannot say that it is as explained, as you have presented zero evidence that Debenhams have money. In fact, as the Courts have found, the Mandate position is without merit. The actual facts are that Mandate are looking for a taxpayer bailout, not claiming that Debenhams have money, so you are advancing another lie.

Nevin Parsnipp · 11-11-2020 10:10am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Ah come on now Bren.

We all know the government has to hold people's hand from cradle to grave with money, a gaff, a lovely pension and all the trimmings life entitles you too.

Sure isn't that what governments are for?

Well in Ireland it seems so....

Indeed it is Dude a nice house near the Ma and a big 46 inch sputterin in the corner.

Income related rent which of course you don't bother to pay and all sorts of woke do gooders and tree huggers to prevent you getting evicted.

Bro Kevin for the Xmas goodies (he don't judge) and a tired GP gettin you the dissabilithy just to get rid of you.

Attend a few peaceful demos if you get bored ..the transphort is free.... and free legals if you tangle with the polis.

Not a bad life ...innit ?

smurgen · 11-11-2020 10:12am

Nevin Parsnipp wrote: »

Indeed it is Dude a nice house near the Ma and a big 46 inch sputterin in the corner.

Income related rent which of course you don't bother to pay and all sorts of woke do gooders and tree huggers to prevent you getting evicted.

Bro Kevin for the Xmas goodies (he don't judge) and a tired GP gettin you the dissabilithy just to get rid of you.

Attend a few peaceful demos if you get bored ..the transphort is free.... and free legals if you tangle with the polis.

Not a bad life ...innit ?

I wonder what twists and turn you have to take to resort to posting stuff like this online? Hardly the postings of a happy or content person.

blanch152 · 11-11-2020 10:21am

A lot of anger this morning around the Forum.

Leo sailed through last night, despite all the predictions of him being gone. The forecasts of his demise appear to have been overblown after all.

Chas and Smith were patsies used by Cosgrave in a personal vendetta against O'Toole. Cosgrave succeeded in what he wanted - getting revenge on O'Toole whose career outside of being a GP is destroyed. Getting a hit on Varadkar for the Government refusing to line his pockets by paying for the Web Summit was the icing on the cake, the real beef was with O'Toole.

Nevin Parsnipp · 11-11-2020 10:31am

smurgen wrote: »

I wonder what twists and turn you have to take to resort to posting stuff like this online? Hardly the postings of a happy or content person.

Very happy and content my good friend !

Would be even more so .....if I didn't have to pay for the rampant sh1tefcuckery outlined in my post.

Why don't you address the points in the post instead of resorting to personal attack ?

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2020 10:40am

blanch152 wrote: »

A lot of anger this morning around the Forum.

Leo sailed through last night, despite all the predictions of him being gone. The forecasts of his demise appear to have been overblown after all.

Chas and Smith were patsies used by Cosgrave in a personal vendetta against O'Toole. Cosgrave succeeded in what he wanted - getting revenge on O'Toole whose career outside of being a GP is destroyed. Getting a hit on Varadkar for the Government refusing to line his pockets by paying for the Web Summit was the icing on the cake, the real beef was with O'Toole.

So Leo didn't do what he admitted to and caused a vote of No Confidence in him?

I suppose it was a vendetta against Simon that brought down the last government too?

Conspiracies everywhere this AM, despite the fact the Tanaiste admitted the wrongdoing and still has to face an investigation to decide if it was a crime or not.

Big win alright.

Change Please 21 · 11-11-2020 10:45am

blanch152 wrote: »

A lot of anger this morning around the Forum.

Leo sailed through last night, despite all the predictions of him being gone. The forecasts of his demise appear to have been overblown after all.

Chas and Smith were patsies used by Cosgrave in a personal vendetta against O'Toole. Cosgrave succeeded in what he wanted - getting revenge on O'Toole whose career outside of being a GP is destroyed. Getting a hit on Varadkar for the Government refusing to line his pockets by paying for the Web Summit was the icing on the cake, the real beef was with O'Toole.

Sailed through, Can you explain why everybody (not just SF supporters) are asking last night and this morning, was it a Vote of No Confidence/Confidence in Leo or Sinn Fein.

Lets just say SF make a mistake this week, and are called into the Dail to explain. Is it going to be acceptable instead of defending themselves to just go on the attack against another party?

blanch152 · 11-11-2020 11:15am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So Leo didn't do what he admitted to and caused a vote of No Confidence in him?

I suppose it was a vendetta against Simon that brought down the last government too?

Conspiracies everywhere this AM, despite the fact the Tanaiste admitted the wrongdoing and still has to face an investigation to decide if it was a crime or not.

Big win alright.

You mean that a frivolous complaint made to the Gardai hasn't been processed and rejected yet?

smurgen · 11-11-2020 11:26am

Nevin Parsnipp wrote: »

Very happy and content my good friend !

Would be even more so .....if I didn't have to pay for the rampant sh1tefcuckery outlined in my post.

Why don't you address the points in the post instead of resorting to personal attack ?

What point? You hate poor people and they should be less well off to make you happier?

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2020 11:31am

blanch152 wrote: »

You mean that a frivolous complaint made to the Gardai hasn't been processed and rejected yet?

Are you preempting a Garda investigation?

How do you know what the Gardai are doing about it? Have they commented on an ongoing case? Highly unusual that they would do that.

SIPO have also a complaint to review and decide on. You know that SIPO that you are imploring and extolling the 'concerns' of on another thread?

Solutionking · 11-11-2020 12:01pm

We really should rename this thread to "Leo the Kitten Daily Update Thread"

blanch152 · 11-11-2020 12:12pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you preempting a Garda investigation?

How do you know what the Gardai are doing about it? Have they commented on an ongoing case? Highly unusual that they would do that.

SIPO have also a complaint to review and decide on. You know that SIPO that you are imploring and extolling the 'concerns' of on another thread?

Yeah, I do know, but the Official Secrets Act has been explained in full on these threads several times (and even the Village legal advice admits at the end to several reasons why no crime was committed) , the Prevention of Corruption Act was also dismissed early on. So, yes, likely to be dismissed as frivilous, or solved following a phone conversation or two to establish no crime was committed.

The SIPO complaint was one made by Paul Murphy, think he makes a few of them every year, good publicity, but nothing ever comes of them. Most that will be found is a minor breach of a code of conduct, but even that is a stretch.

I do admire the desperate search for straws to cling to.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2020 12:15pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Yeah, I do know, but the Official Secrets Act has been explained in full on these threads several times (and even the Village legal advice admits at the end to several reasons why no crime was committed) , the Prevention of Corruption Act was also dismissed early on. So, yes, likely to be dismissed as frivilous, or solved following a phone conversation or two to establish no crime was committed.

The SIPO complaint was one made by Paul Murphy, think he makes a few of them every year, good publicity, but nothing ever comes of them. Most that will be found is a minor breach of a code of conduct, but even that is a stretch.

I do admire the desperate search for straws to cling to.

That's just more handwaving away.

blanch152 · 11-11-2020 12:41pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's just more handwaving away.

Not really, no substance, no merit to the Garda complaint. Waving it away is probably too strong a reaction.

smurgen · 11-11-2020 12:53pm

Whoever runs FG twitter account had to have been drinking yesterday.

https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1326230263978979332?s=19

FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

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