Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

D.L.R. wrote: »

Metro could be extended to Kildare instead of Dart.

Its not such a crazy idea when you think about it, perhaps explain why you think that's the case instead of trying to shut down any debate.

Not upgrading the Green line for the cheapest section of Metro in western europe. Now that's crazy.

No way. That will never happen in a million years.

For one thing IÉ would not be too happy at all to hear your views on Metro to Hazelhatch as they would think it sounds like a complete farce with what you are proposing. It will cost the taxpayer a lot more money to provide a Metro to Hazelhatch instead of the DU intended to go there. The reason for the quad tracking currently being in place from Heuston to Hazelhatch at the moment is that it is meant to provide expanded heavy rail services for both commuter & intercity routes for now as they use all of those four tracks to run their services between those two stations along with some IÉ freight runs in-between.

Commuters would also not be very happy to hear that of the big gains that were made from increasing heavy rail services between Newbridge & GCD would be drastically short-lived by your proposal. They could say it would be a disgrace because it would result in a severe reduction in services on that route for several years to come if your Metro proposal got officially proposed by the NTA & approved by ABP. The NTA would quite rightly say that it would a significant waste of time & money to do it because more time is being wasted on making up more Metro proposals that are replacing already proposed heavy rail services provided for the GDA.

There is not meant to be any public money to be allocated for building Metro to Hazelhatch either because Metrolink is currently not set to replace part or all of the Dart Expansion programme along with DU provided to IÉ as that heavy rail investment is meant to compliment Metrolink as set out in the PfG. The tender for the new DU rolling stock has already been written up by the NTA as well so your proposal for Metro to Hazelhatch has already come in way too late for it to be dealt with for any consideration by the powers that be. You also did not give an actual location of where the other Metro terminus would start if your proposal had it going went all the way out to Hazelhatch. Would that other location originally intend the original Metrolink line within the CC or something because I do not know where that is?

If anything is developed out that way, it should be DART, all the way to Sallins, and onwards, via a spur to the centre of Naas.

D.L.R. wrote: »

Don't think commuters really care what branding is on the side of their train. Nobody has given me a technical reason why a Metro to Hazelhatch couldn't work. Just political reasons.

Because it's a waste of money, unnecessarily undoing investment in heavy rail that has been made along that corridor?

It is pretty clear that the decision re gauge and driverless status for Metro has been made by the NTA, and that isn't going to change, which would mean ripping up a lot of trackwork and redesigning signalling - to what end?

Because it would go against all of the investment proposals that transport professionals have put forward heretofore?

Frankly it's up there with the constant crayon proposals that another poster here keeps coming up with.

Your concerns regarding the Northern Line capacity (which I do agree with), which seem to the main driver behind your thinking have been recognised by the IE CEO, who has finally realised that it will need additional trackwork north of Connolly to facilitate overtaking.

There will have to be a third or indeed fourth track for some of it along with additional loops and turnbacks.

And that is with or without DART Underground.

I would suggest that delivering the heavy rail capacity is a much more sensible solution than a Metro to Hazelhatch.

D.L.R. wrote: »

Don't think commuters really care what branding is on the side of their train. Nobody has given me a technical reason why a Metro to Hazelhatch couldn't work. Just political reasons.

One of the biggest advantages in having DU is that all of it's services can be allowed to co-exist with other existing IÉ services using it's current infrastructure. If you were proposing to build your Metro say from Hazelhatch to Malahide using a brand new tunnel that mirrors the originally proposed DU tunnel; where does the track go after that if the tunnels ends on that approach at Howth Junction & Donaghmede? It would be the only point where you can physically stop the Metro at that point unless you plan to build all that newly spec'd extra track for your Metro plan all the way up to Malahide which would mean existing IÉ services cannot be used on it.

Other heavy rail services offered by IÉ would lose out on a lot of practicality & common sense with not being allowed to use the new Metrolink tunnel as it cannot be allowed to be used for other modes of rail transport except light rail. DU wouldn't need to require a lot of extra money while it has the intention to enhance it's own existing rail infrastructure to go up between Howth Jct & Malahide & then further out to Drogheda. It would be a lot cheaper for IÉ's pov to build the overhead cables for DU because the track would be the same spec as IÉ's current track network at that point rather than building brand new infrastructure for your proposal for Metro.

This whole "heavy rail vs metro" is a false argument. Both deliver capacity.

D.L.R. wrote: »

This whole "heavy rail vs metro" is a false argument. Both deliver capacity.

So in one breath you raise the issue of congestion on the northern line due to the mix of different services sharing two tracks, and in the next you suggest ripping up the only bit of quad-tracking we have to put in another type of service and force the existing services into two tracks! Four tracks of the same gauge offers more capacity and greater flexibility than 2 x one gauge and 2 x another. Technical problems with a train or it needs to wait for Gardai/ambulance means all services into one track, why would you create that situation when you already have a better situation? It makes no sense whatsoever.

This suggestion needs to be moved to a separate thread or even deleted altogether.

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but is any of the Luas Redline future proofed like the Green line for conversation to Metro? The line is getting awful busy.

No, too much on street running.

spacetweek wrote: »

That was never the plan. The Green Line was always due to be converted to Metro (and now won't be). The Red Line was always meant to remain a tram-style line.

Not strictly true. Parts of the alignment for the red line was originally reserved for Dart heavy rail.

RE: The existing luas, I'm waiting to see when the penny will drop that adding more suburban extensions to a 2 line system with one central crossing point won't work. We need more lines in the central area before the suburbs. Politics must be at play here, nobody wants to open up linear construction sites in the City Centre. You'll get all the joe callers saying 'bu' trafik doh!' P.S off topic, back to metro.

The EU stimulus package has been agreed as far as I know so expect announcements to come as a package. All the announcements will be projects that were happening regardless of the stimulus and Ireland is paying more into it than receiving so it hardly matters.