Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

bk

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Being stuck in traffic and talking longer airport to city centre than a metro - that’s a yuck from me. Horses for courses.

That depends on the city of course, but I've often seen the coach take the same time or even faster then the Metro. Non stop coach versus stopping Metro.

Time of day can also make a difference of course. Peak time, coach maybe slower, offpeak faster.

Oh and dragging the whole family with heavy luggage onto a Metro is typically not a great idea. Hungry, tired 4 year old crammed onto a Metro is NOT a good idea. Even other Metro users would prefer if you had taken the coach.

If I'm travelling on my own and with just a backpack, I'll tend to jump on a Metro. Though if for work, I'll jump in a taxi or pre-booked car service, since work is paying anyway.

I'm a rational minded person, I've no particular preference of one over the other. In the end they are all just metal boxes on wheels. A way to get somewhere. Like most people I'd simply choice one over the other on some rational combination of journey time/comfort/ease of use/cost.

Airport coach services certainly have there place. Guaranteed comfortable seat, luggage taken care for you, customer care staff use to working with confused foreigners, they are often easier to use when visiting a new city and different language, trying to figure out how to pay for a Metro trip, what train to board, when to get off, etc.

I honestly think there is plenty of difference between Coach/Metro/Taxi that all can continue to work fine once Metrolink opens.

Metrolink will be perfect for locals, people working at the airport, folks taking a weekend trip, maybe broke backpackers looking for the cheapest option. But we probably don't want big families with lots of luggage getting on the Metrolink. That will end up being hell for all those daily commuters going to/from Swords, etc. Trust me as a user of the 16 bus here, complete pain.

BTW I'll give you my Metro horror story. I once made the mistake of taking the Subway from Manhattan to JFK at rush hour. Squeezed onto a horrible hot Subway at rush hour with big luggage and squeezed shoulder to shoulder with those around me. In the space of 30 minutes, within 2 meters of me, not one, but two fist fits broke out right next to me, between different groups of people!! :eek:

Seriously I've travelled all over the world, took Metro's in some dodgy places, but never seen anything like that.

CreativeSen

bk wrote: »

Metrolink will be perfect for locals, people working at the airport, folks taking a weekend trip, maybe broke backpackers looking for the cheapest option. But we probably don't want big families with lots of luggage getting on the Metrolink. That will end up being hell for all those daily commuters going to/from Swords, etc. Trust me as a user of the 16 bus here, complete pain.

This is exactly the point of the Metro. The fact that it connects to the Airport is a mere happy coincidence. Its benefit is not for the jaded tourist but:
- The daily commuter, shortening the time spent travelling and increasing their standard of living;
- It will open up whole new sections of north Dublin to new development which will help with housing issues (which haven't gone away!);
- Allowing people access to more affordable accommodation with larger spaces but still with fast and easy connection to the city centre for work and education;

The airport connection, in my mind, is a very welcome and beneficial added bonus

D.L.R.

CreativeSen wrote: »

This is exactly the point of the Metro. The fact that it connects to the Airport is a mere happy coincidence. Its benefit is not for the jaded tourist but:
- The daily commuter, shortening the time spent travelling and increasing their standard of living;
- It will open up whole new sections of north Dublin to new development which will help with housing issues (which haven't gone away!);
- Allowing people access to more affordable accommodation with larger spaces but still with fast and easy connection to the city centre for work and education;

The airport connection, in my mind, is a very welcome and beneficial added bonus

It wouldn't be happening at all without the airport factor. Its still touch and go as it is.

MJohnston

D.L.R. wrote: »

It wouldn't be happening at all without the airport factor. Its still touch and go as it is.

Disagree, completely. The Swords factor is far more substantial.

donvito99

MJohnston wrote: »

Disagree, completely. The Swords factor is far more substantial.

The impact on the Maynooth / Kildare lines is also significant.

Zebra3

As is the city center factor.

AngryLips

CreativeSen wrote: »

This is exactly the point of the Metro. The fact that it connects to the Airport is a mere happy coincidence.

okay sure, whatever.

tobsey

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Being stuck in traffic and talking longer airport to city centre than a metro - that’s a yuck from me. Horses for courses.

There are very few times when it’d take you longer than 30 minutes from the airport to O’Connell bridge.

BonnieSituation

tobsey wrote: »

There are very few times when it’d take you longer than 30 minutes from the airport to O’Connell bridge.

On a bus?

D.L.R.

MJohnston wrote: »

Disagree, completely. The Swords factor is far more substantial.

Not saying it isn't.

I'm saying the airport gives the state that added incentive to actually get off its arse and build something. Without the airport, I doubt it would be this close to happening.

bk

donvito99 wrote: »

The impact on the Maynooth / Kildare lines is also significant.

Yes, Dart+ would be a much weaker project without it. The presence of Metrolink significantly improve the business case.

The Airport is the cherry on top, it is what makes Metrolink easy to sell to the public. But it really isn't anywhere close to the main purpose of Metrolink.

Brian CivilEng

tobsey wrote: »

There are very few times when it’d take you longer than 30 minutes from the airport to O’Connell bridge.

There are regular times where it has taken me longer than 30mins to simply get on an "every 10mins" 747 bus.

bk wrote:

Oh and dragging the whole family with heavy luggage onto a Metro is typically not a great idea. Hungry, tired 4 year old crammed onto a Metro is NOT a good idea. Even other Metro users would prefer if you had taken the coach.

Have had this argument with my wife many times. She prefers the bus, I prefer rail or metro every time. Even with our 4 year old.

Once you miss a bus or coach despite being on time due to it filling it's 90 seats before you make it to the top of the queue you instantly get converted into being a Metro fan. I've chosen not to get on a train due to it being overcrowded, rare enough but it has happened. With the bus the choice is made for you, a quick shrug by the driver and you are waiting 30mins for the next one.

Sam Russell

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

There are regular times where it has taken me longer than 30mins to simply get on an "every 10mins" 747 bus.



Have had this argument with my wife many times. She prefers the bus, I prefer rail or metro every time. Even with our 4 year old.

Once you miss a bus or coach despite being on time due to it filling it's 90 seats before you make it to the top of the queue you instantly get converted into being a Metro fan. I've chosen not to get on a train due to it being overcrowded, rare enough but it has happened. With the bus the choice is made for you, a quick shrug by the driver and you are waiting 30mins for the next one.

Plus the bus not even appearing. Once, my sister had to get a flight at 7:45 am from Dublin Airport, and the Aircoach runs close by, so I usually drop her for the 6:30 coach which gets her there in time. Coach did not show, so I had to drive there which was fine, but not convenient, and not the only time the early morning coaches failed to appear.

If Metrolink is more frequent than every 10 mins, that will be fine. Better that every five minutes, that will be excellent.

It is frequency and reliability that is the major selling point of a Metro service.

AngryLips

Seriously, where are all these scare stories about the bus coming from? The bus to the airport is completely reliable and always within 30 minutes. End of story. If it's ever anything otherwise it's the rare exception rather than the rule but that's not been my experience in the many years catching it almost every month.

Sam Russell

AngryLips wrote: »

Seriously, where are all these scare stories about the bus coming from? The bus to the airport is completely reliable and always within 30 minutes. End of story. If it's ever anything otherwise it's the rare exception rather than the rule but that's not been my experience in the many years catching it almost every month.

That is not my experience for the Bray/Greystones/Dalkey coaches. They are frequently late, and more often very late. (obviously pre-Covid). When they took the route away from the East Link, the reliability disappeared. If it is not reliable, it is useless.

AngryLips

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is not my experience for the Bray/Greystones/Dalkey coaches. They are frequently late, and more often very late. (obviously pre-Covid). When they took the route away from the East Link, the reliability disappeared. If it is not reliable, it is useless.

Oh sorry I thought we were talking about Airlink

dublinman1990

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is not my experience for the Bray/Greystones/Dalkey coaches. They are frequently late, and more often very late. (obviously pre-Covid). When they took the route away from the East Link, the reliability disappeared. If it is not reliable, it is useless.

Oh; that's not good news to hear about Aircoach being frequently late on these routes. Do they run longer than 30 minutes late?

I'm just asking this because these are the nearest Aircoach routes to me.

If BusConnects is implemented in Dublin; it would give the Aircoach some advantage in getting their journey times reduced to make it more reliable. The one big disadvantage with Aircoach on the 703 is that there is no extra bus lane available from Dalkey to Temple Hill in Blackrock to overtake other buses or cars to make it's journey go much faster than it wanted. If an Aircoach gets stuck in very heavy traffic along big sections of that route with no other suitable traffic alleviation measures to make it run quicker; it would be a disaster for the Aircoach to maintain the schedule on that route even if it left the terminus on time to try & get to the Airport.

Another advantage from BusConnects for the 703 is on the Blackrock by-pass once it get's the new bus lane & bus priority signalling implemented on either side of that road. If there was heavy traffic on the by-pass without including those things; it would delay the route even further than expected. You could be stuck sitting there in heavy traffic for 20 to 30 minutes at a time each day if the traffic on that stretch of road was in gridlock pre-covid.

Other bus routes along with the cars like the 4, 7 & 84 will be delayed on that stretch of road as well if they approached the same situation. Further out could be substantially worse though if the traffic is not progressing well at all. If the Aircoach was gridlocked from say Dalkey or Dun Laoghaire on it's way to the Airport; the passengers on the bus & the driver would be in big trouble if it was't able to turn up for the important flights running on time from Dublin Airport by being missed for the working day.

That is one big reason why Dart+ CS along with Metrolink are two highly critical & important pieces of infrastructure that have to be prioritized for Airport passengers living along this stretch of line if the NTA & the government get them implemented asap. If people have the added option of arriving at the Airport on time by rail from their own home along with using the Dart; they will be able to make the choice of getting the Dart from near their home & than get the metro from Tara St to the Airport quite easily rather than relying on a private bus that is stuck in heavy traffic for nearly some/most of it's route. But that only happens if the Dart has no other delays on the line as well.

I also don't understand why the 702 is late while it's running from Greystones. That is very disappointing.

Is it that the route takes too long for it to make it comply with it's running time? It uses a much longer stretch of the bus lane on the N11 from Loughlinstown Hospital to Mount Merrion Ave once it's goes down to the Rock Road QBC; it wouldn't have to wait very long in the traffic in any case.

AngryLips

The thing is, there's no point in complaining about the Aircoach taking longer than 30 minutes to get to O'Connell Street when there is a service using the port tunnel that consistently gets to OCS in under 30 (Airlink).

tobsey

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is not my experience for the Bray/Greystones/Dalkey coaches. They are frequently late, and more often very late. (obviously pre-Covid). When they took the route away from the East Link, the reliability disappeared. If it is not reliable, it is useless.

Metrolink wont help those routes though. The bus service from the airport to CC is very fast and reliable. Rush hour in the morning getting from the port to past the convention centre is the only issue. Similar problems going the other way along the quays but that’s the only hold up. The port tunnel makes the bus very fast and reliable. Berlin has two main airports neither of which is served by any of the main train lines and there’s no issue with the buses.

Lord Glentoran

AngryLips wrote: »

The thing is, there's no point in complaining about the Aircoach taking longer than 30 minutes to get to O'Connell Street when there is a service using the port tunnel that consistently gets to OCS in under 30 (Airlink).

Does it still meander forever around the south city before it gets to Heuston as an afterthought?

Lord Glentoran

tobsey wrote: »

Metrolink wont help those routes though. The bus service from the airport to CC is very fast and reliable. Rush hour in the morning getting from the port to past the convention centre is the only issue. Similar problems going the other way along the quays but that’s the only hold up. The port tunnel makes the bus very fast and reliable. Berlin has two main airports neither of which is served by any of the main train lines and there’s no issue with the buses.

Tegel needs a bus connection, but Schöenfeld is on the S-Bahn, as will the new main airport at Brandenburg when it is finished. That will replace Tegel and Schönefeld anyway.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can e get back on track with Metrolink, please.

Getting to the airport by Metrolink will be facilitated by connection with Dart at Tara St, Luas at SSG, and Maynooth (Dart +) at Cross Guns. That should allow a large number of pubic transport users to make use it.

The bus/coach services will still continue to be of use, but Metrolink will be popular as it should be available 24 hrs a day, or at least to satisfy the airport demand. I would see most airport workers using it.

1huge1

So where are we at now in terms of a timeline.

In terms of the original timeline announced, construction was to start in 2021 (a mere 4 months away) and be operational by 2027.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to the website below, they are only planning to issue invitations to tender in Q4 2021 and this was a pre covid timeline. Are we already 2 years behind the already painfully slow schedule? No construction until 2023?

Current Status
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=705d581a-4672-487e-9102-a7598bbb7508
On 18 December 2019 the deadline closed for submissions to the preliminary market consultation conducted by TII relating to the procurement of the design, construction, delivery, maintenance and operations of the Dublin MetroLink project.

TII are seeking to finalise the overall procurement strategy for the MetroLink scheme in Q1 of 2020. The estimated date of publication of the contract notice is 30 September 2020 for the above contract opportunities and Q2 of 2021 for the issue of the Invitations to Tender and first appointments in Q4 of 2021, subject to the necessary planning consents being in place.

marno21

1huge1 wrote: »

So where are we at now in terms of a timeline.

In terms of the original timeline announced, construction was to start in 2021 (a mere 4 months away) and be operational by 2027.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to the website below, they are only planning to issue invitations to tender in Q4 2021 and this was a pre covid timeline. Are we already 2 years behind the already painfully slow schedule? No construction until 2023?

That reads to me as first appointments in Q4 2021 no?

1huge1

Apologies, you are right, misread that. I'm not from a construction background myself but would first appointments immediately precede construction?

As you can probably tell, I am eager for them to actually get the shovels in the ground on this one.

marno21

1huge1 wrote: »

Apologies, you are right, misread that. I'm not from a construction background myself but would first appointments immediately precede construction?

As you can probably tell, I am eager for them to actually get the shovels in the ground on this one.

No need to apologise, it is Friday after all.

That was what I also read from those timelines when I saw them. They are going to run procurement and ABP in parallel and hit the ground running (or hit the ground boring) once planning is confirmed.

Fingal County Council have been in pre-railway order consultation with ABP since June 2018 so hopefully by the time they actually file a planning application they will have all their ducks in a row and there won't be too many issues to iron out

1huge1

FYI

https://twitter.com/MetroLink_ie/status/1303330941780348928

cgcsb

It's interesting they're actually saying that on twitter before quietly slipping the time line on their website:

https://www.metrolink.ie/#/Timeline

6 to 9 months is a big slip. More than you can really blame on corona especially since lockdown only started at the end of Q1 and the submission was to be made in Q2. There won't be any need to put a spin on it though because the Irish public ceased taking these things seriously some time ago.

1huge1

Interestingly though, they still have it as "operational" by 2027 on that timeline.

1huge1

https://twitter.com/MetroLink_ie/status/1303623068611497985

While disappointed at any delay, I'm quietly confident that the project will finally happen this time.