Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

Peregrine

Peregrine wrote: »

It'll be Q4 now, at least. Definitely not solely COVID related.

Iarnród Éireann also has to submit a separate railway order for Glasnevin Station, and this won't happen until 2021 at the earliest. There won't be a Metrolink railway order this side of Christmas. Glasnevin in particular is requiring more planning than envisaged and will also likely lead to the closure of the line from Broomebridge to Connolly once construction commences.

Zebra3

HabibiLibneni wrote: »

Iarnród Éireann also has to submit a separate railway order for Glasnevin Station, and this won't happen until 2021 at the earliest. There won't be a Metrolink railway order this side of Christmas. Glasnevin in particular is requiring more planning than envisaged and will also likely lead to the closure of the line from Broomebridge to Connolly once construction commences.

Would Broombridge-Maynooth services still run?

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

Would Broombridge-Maynooth services still run?

I don't see any reason why they couldn't. I'd imagine the train would stop at Broomebridge and people can take the tram from there or supplementary buses for the duration of construction.

Zebra3

HabibiLibneni wrote: »

I don't see any reason why they couldn't. I'd imagine the train would stop at Broomebridge and people can take the tram from there or supplementary buses for the duration of construction.

Is there a turnback option at Broombridge?

CatInABox

HabibiLibneni wrote: »

Iarnród Éireann also has to submit a separate railway order for Glasnevin Station, and this won't happen until 2021 at the earliest. There won't be a Metrolink railway order this side of Christmas. Glasnevin in particular is requiring more planning than envisaged and will also likely lead to the closure of the line from Broomebridge to Connolly once construction commences.

The line to Connolly will definitely shut, they'll be digging right down through the tracks to build the station, but I had been under the impression that they were aiming to keep the Docklands line open as much as possible, is that still the case?

LXFlyer

Exactly - the connection to Docklands and to Connolly via the Newcomen curve would still be there.

GerardKeating

LXFlyer wrote: »

Exactly - the connection to Docklands and to Connolly via the Newcomen curve would still be there.

So they could still run a Full Maynooth /Sligo/M3 Parkway service via the Newcomen curve, and a Drumcondra/Connolly shuttle if they wanted.

CatInABox

GerardKeating wrote: »

So they could still run a Full Maynooth /Sligo/M3 Parkway service via the Newcomen curve, and a Drumcondra/Connolly shuttle if they wanted.

While the line should still be operational, I've no doubt that there will be restrictions on the speed and number of trains going through, after all, it'll be right beside/through a complex construction site.

I'd also be surprised if all of the current Phoenix Park tunnel services are kept as well, I'd imagine they'd be ended in Heuston.

All in all, it'll still be a right commuter mess, but hopefully not as bad as the worst case scenario.

I also suspect that they won't run a Drumcondra shuttle at all, it'll involve a train crossing the northern line for one stop. My guess is they'll run shuttle bus between the two, as the benefits of running a train over the line just wouldn't be enough, to be honest.

MJohnston

It’s a shame all these projects were so far off being shovel ready, because this year would have been a relatively perfect time for some heavily disruptive infrastructure work.

Both lines will be closed from Broomebridge to Connolly and the Docklands. They may decide to try and keep one line open and then switch to construction on the other, but as far as I'm aware the intention is to close both lines at Broomebridge.

The drawings indicate the area of construction within the broken purple lines, and both fall within these lines. There will also be a realignment of the lines west of Glasnevin.

Iarnród Éireann must submit a separate railway order for the IÉ station. There are still local stakeholder engagement consultations yet to take place, Tara and Glasnevin being the most complex. Supposing that this will be submitted to ABP mid 2021, taking approximately a year from submission to approval, this project will not start until well into 2022 at the earliest.

LXFlyer

HabibiLibneni wrote: »

Both lines will be closed from Broomebridge to Connolly and the Docklands. They may decide to try and keep one line open and then switch to construction on the other but as far as I'm aware, the intention is to close both lines at Broomebridge.

The drawings indicate the area of construction within the broken purple lines, and both fall within these lines. There will also be a realignment of the lines west of Glasnevin.

Iarnród Éireann must submit a separate railway order for the IÉ station. There are still local stakeholder engagement consultations yet to take place, Tara and Glasnevin being the most complex. Supposing that this will be submitted to ABP mid 2021, taking approximately a year from submission to approval, this project will not start until well into 2022 at the earliest.

Well let’s wait and see.
This hasn’t even gone to public consultation yet.

spacetweek

Peregrine wrote: »

It'll be Q4 now, at least. Definitely not solely COVID related.

Just got an email from NTA:

"The MetroLink design is well underway and TII propose to have the application ready for An Bord Pleanala in 2021. It is hard to gauge how long this process will take but we would anticipate a Railway Order within 12 - 18 months. Construction should then start within a few months subject to Government Approval."

cgcsb

Surprised that you got that response. I had heard that Christmas 2020 would be 'the earliest' that an application would be submitted (6 months late) but that was some time ago. Giving a year (2021) would seem to be an admission that the project is a year or more behind program. Do they mention covid-19 at all? I'm noticing that's the industry catch-all for all work not done in 2020.

spacetweek

MJohnston wrote: »

It’s a shame all these projects were so far off being shovel ready, because this year would have been a relatively perfect time for some heavily disruptive infrastructure work.

I was just thinking the other day, the cancellation of the Green Line Upgrade as part of this project was because of the huge disruption that would be caused to commuters if the line had to be closed for a few years. But right now it would hardly even be noticed!

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

Just got an email from NTA:

"The MetroLink design is well underway and TII propose to have the application ready for An Bord Pleanala in 2021. It is hard to gauge how long this process will take but we would anticipate a Railway Order within 12 - 18 months. Construction should then start within a few months subject to Government Approval."

That's actually not that bad. If it got to ABP in early 2021, and got through ABP in 12-18 months and straight into advance works (which will probably be labelled as construction works) it could be underway in late 2022/early 2023.

With all the delays the project has faced, and the extremely ambitious original start date of 2021, it's not the end of the world.

Kevtherev1

spacetweek wrote: »

Just got an email from NTA:

"The MetroLink design is well underway and TII propose to have the application ready for An Bord Pleanala in 2021. It is hard to gauge how long this process will take but we would anticipate a Railway Order within 12 - 18 months. Construction should then start within a few months subject to Government Approval."

Going by that email the timeline might now be approx. Submit ABP October 2021. Planning granted March 2023. Govt approval October 2023. Tender until end 2024. Construction start March-June 2025. Opening December 2031. Damn that is pathetic. Four years late, the swords and north dublin chamber of commerce / commuters wont be happy.

marno21

TII have indicated that they will be running the procurement process in parallel with ABP/Railway Order application. First tender notice to go out in the quarter before ABP application

Details here: https://www.philiplee.ie/metrolink-market-update/

Peregrine

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

Going by that email the timeline might now be approx. Submit ABP October 2021. Planning granted March 2023. Govt approval October 2023. Tender until end 2024. Construction start March-June 2025. Opening December 2031. Damn that is pathetic. Four years late, the swords and north dublin chamber of commerce / commuters wont be happy.

Why October 2021?

spacetweek

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

Going by that email the timeline might now be approx. Submit ABP October 2021. Planning granted March 2023. Govt approval October 2023. Tender until end 2024. Construction start March-June 2025. Opening December 2031. Damn that is pathetic. Four years late, the swords and north dublin chamber of commerce / commuters wont be happy.

That might be a stretch. More like:
Min: submit early 2021/approve early 2022/construction mid 2022.
Max: submit end 2021/approve mid 2023/construction end 2023.

The first scenario wouldn't be too bad considering the start date for this has always been "2021/2022".

Kevtherev1

marno21 wrote: »

TII have indicated that they will be running the procurement process in parallel with ABP/Railway Order application. First tender notice to go out in the quarter before ABP application

Details here: https://www.philiplee.ie/metrolink-market-update/

Fingers and toes crossed for that, however that seem aspirational.

Peregrine wrote: »

Why October 2021?

Recent years political trend, govt cabinets making major infrastructure decisions as part of Budget process, (annual decisions being delayed until october each year)

spacetweek wrote: »

That might be a stretch. More like:
Min: submit early 2021/approve early 2022/construction mid 2022.
Max: submit end 2021/approve mid 2023/construction end 2023.

The first scenario wouldn't be too bad considering the start date for this has always been "2021/2022".

I would prefer your scenario is correct, however in ireland progress is at a snails pace.

spacetweek

marno21 wrote: »

TII have indicated that they will be running the procurement process in parallel with ABP/Railway Order application. First tender notice to go out in the quarter before ABP application

Details here: https://www.philiplee.ie/metrolink-market-update/

What does this mean exactly? Seems to say that they will issue a tender before getting planning permission??

D.L.R.

Nothing to suggest that new timeline is anything more than the usual guff.

They said it would be with ABP in 2019, back during the first consultation. The Green line/Charlemont issue has not been resolved.

Don't believe a word these total spoofers say until TBMs are in the ground.

Pete_Cavan

spacetweek wrote: »

What does this mean exactly? Seems to say that they will issue a tender before getting planning permission??

From the link above;

The indicative procurement strategy involves:

• Three large construction contracts (Southern Section, Central Section and Northern Section) for the Civil Engineering and Stations, including all of the civil engineering and stations work within their site boundaries but excluding enabling works (to be procured separately);
• A Linewide Systems contract (Permanent Way and Overhead Line Equipment, Power Distribution, Communications and Automated Fare Collection); and
• A proposed PPP with the following scope:

The design, manufacture, supply, testing and commissioning and maintenance of Rolling Stock;

Fit out of the Depot and Operations Control Centre;
The design, manufacture, installation, testing and commissioning of the Platform Screen Doors and Command & Control Signalling; and
Operation and maintenance of the automated driverless railway for a period in the range, approximately, of 15 to 25 years from the operations commencement date. In relation to fares, an approach similar to that used for the Luas services in Dublin is intended. In terms of payment mechanism, an availability-based approach is being considered but the detail of this approach is yet to be finalised.

They could start procurement on the Linewide Systems contract and the PPP for Rolling stock before RO is granted. Obviously it would be mad to sign a contract before everything else is confirmed.

The Linewide Systems contract may need to be in place to inform the specification and finer details for the actual construction contracts. The winner of that contract may also be required to work as a consultant during the construction to ensure things are installed to their specifications.

Similar could apply to the Rolling Stock supplier. The Rolling Stock will obviously take several years to be produced so likely has to be ordered as soon as construction commences. There will probably be a lot of toing and froing before the Rolling Stock order is finalised so they probably want to be talking directly with a preferred tenderer while construction is at procurement so all contracts can be signed in tandem.

Chivito550

What's the story with Metrolink? I've heard from a reliable source that they are doing up a business case for it at the moment, based on various factors (reduced passengers arriving into Dublin Airport being one). Worried this is going to be scrapped now because of the Covid recession.

cgcsb

I would first expect bus connects to be officially dropped or a new 'optimised' version brought out for more consultation first and then ML dropped at a later stage.

Disappointing but very easy to predict all the same. Rinse and repeat stuff.

Peregrine

The more people who keep saying these projects will be dropped, the more acceptable it will be to people if they are dropped and the more likely it will be to be dropped.

MJohnston

This is far more of a critical project now than it was before Covid. All public transport is. Air pollution from cars is multiplying the effects of illnesses which affect the respiratory system, on top of everything else.

riddlinrussell

Chivito550 wrote: »

What's the story with Metrolink? I've heard from a reliable source that they are doing up a business case for it at the moment, based on various factors (reduced passengers arriving into Dublin Airport being one). Worried this is going to be scrapped now because of the Covid recession.

Surely this is part of the erroneous narrative that the Metrolink is primarily a way to get from the Airport to the city? Doesnt that conveniently forget about linking the largest town in Ireland to Dublin and the thousands along the city corridor who it will also serve?

Sam Russell

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Surely this is part of the erroneous narrative that the Metrolink is primarily a way to get from the Airport to the city? Doesnt that conveniently forget about linking the largest town in Ireland to Dublin and the thousands along the city corridor who it will also serve?

Metrolink will also cut down the number of cars and buses that serve the Airport, thus reducing pollution. Workers will need to get to the airport, as will passengers. The reduction in passengers will not matter, as it will be back to growth and more than current (2019) numbers by the time this metro is built - 2027 if it is on schedule.

It would be foolish indeed not to press on with it - perhaps crank up its urgency.

Akesh

Sam Russell wrote: »

Metrolink will also cut down the number of cars and buses that serve the Airport, thus reducing pollution. Workers will need to get to the airport, as will passengers. The reduction in passengers will not matter, as it will be back to growth and more than current (2019) numbers by the time this metro is built - 2027 if it is on schedule.

It would be foolish indeed not to press on with it - perhaps crank up its urgency.

I agree but the DAA will fight a metrolink tooth and nail unless the government will replace their income stream from car rentals and car parking which would defeat the purpose of project from a cost perspective. You also have the banks and car manufacturers rowing in as they obviously don't want to lose potential income streams.

There is also the problem that the majority of people using cars to the airport have no interest in travelling into the city centre anyway or wouldn't see the benefits of this line considering how disjointed Dublin's transport is.